Assault caps flags, medics heal and revieve, engineers repair, spec-ops destroy commander assets, supports resupply and ATs take out tanks. Sniper can only kill. While snipers don't not help your team, they usually help less than the other kits.Sniper-UK-Ghost wrote:
your so wrongdoctastrangelove1964 wrote:
It is possible to use the Sniper to help your team. However sniper's don't help their team more often than any other kit.
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only times I am sniper are when I can use the SVD and am attacking a place where a sniper can do good. Such as being squad leader when my squad is trying to cap a flag and I am not in the fight so that they can spawn on me. I use sniper so I can take out and spot anyone who spawns to try and take on my squad. Other time is when I need to take out a couple other snipers.
All you would have done there is take one of my kills:). I would rather have you next to me capping the flag with me as a medic. We would have a much better chance of capping the flag and taking out a group who would try and take us out.Sniper-UK-Ghost wrote:
If im a sniper, if pfff when im a sniper i ALWAYS feel that i play as part of a team, i always cover people when running/reloading/capping/when getting revived i feel i always help, it really does show you help when someone is capping a base and a enemy runs in and starts shooting the capper and you snipe off his head with your rifle, the guy taking the base thanks you loads, it makes me feel proud
Does a medic spot tanks, apcs and attack choppers all the time ? A sniper can be the eye and ear of the team, at least if he does his job right (most don't, but don't confuse this with the part he can play). A sniper can take out the gunner of a vodnik or hmmv from a distance of 200m+. Ever tried this as a medic ? A sniper can be a perfect squad leader, staying a bit behind, providing a spawn point and spotting targets for his team. I wouldn't say that medics can't do that, but they usually don't do it, since they want their part of the action and getting revive points. In my opinion, snipers are about the best squad leaders, since they don't die so often.
Btw. I can't stand this team argument any more. As if everybody is just playing for the team. Such nonsense. Gaming is about fun, and if its more fun to be a sniper, than be one. Personally, I don't give a damn about winning, as long as both teams are roughly fair divided.
Btw. I can't stand this team argument any more. As if everybody is just playing for the team. Such nonsense. Gaming is about fun, and if its more fun to be a sniper, than be one. Personally, I don't give a damn about winning, as long as both teams are roughly fair divided.
I stopped reading when you said you place Claymores.
To be honest, I usually play sniper as part of a squad, mostly for taking most of the health off enemies.
Thts why i have so many KDAs
But I enjoy playing sniper as part of a squad, and is especially rewarding when a chopper comes by expecting to own the whole squad...The situation is somewhat reversed.
Thts why i have so many KDAs
But I enjoy playing sniper as part of a squad, and is especially rewarding when a chopper comes by expecting to own the whole squad...The situation is somewhat reversed.
Snipers aren't team players. They do it because they play for themselves. Hell, I was owning as a sniper IO this morning but I did it for fun. I could've done so much more as any other kit, even though I outkilled everyone else.
I have so many because I'm a lousy shot[E.F.L]Airwolf wrote:
Thts why i have so many KDAs
*sigh* Stop with the generalisations already... my flag points > your flag points (for half the score!)Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
Snipers aren't team players.
How did I know I'd find your top kit would be medic? Next you'll be telling me that all medics are team players, yet how many complaints do we see about about guys who won't revive even though you're only 10m away or won't give out heath even when you chase after them spamming "I need a medic!"?
You could have done so much more as ANY other kit?Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
Hell, I was owning as a sniper IO this morning but I did it for fun. I could've done so much more as any other kit, even though I outkilled everyone else.
Okay, same server, same map, same player load each time; please outkill everyone as spec ops, assault and engineer. And post proof. Thanks.
when i rape snipers in servers who say owned if they kill me, i have a very good line-up time so i can HS sum1 a few metres away with a flick of the sniper, so im best.
btw EVERY kit spots tanks,choppers etc, well any kit tht oesnt have a retard behind it
btw EVERY kit spots tanks,choppers etc, well any kit tht oesnt have a retard behind it
Last edited by c4_he_was_famous (2007-04-23 14:11:25)
I try to be useful when I snipe. Karkand for an example; when we hold Square or Hotel and the enemy holds Suburb or Square or Market, I'll either stay back to snipe incoming enemies or stick a bit behind my squad to give them cover fire. It's not a total point-raker but it helps out. Most people freak out when they suddenly go from full health to 2 bars of health
Oh no, it's you again.c4_he_was_famous wrote:
when i rape snipers in servers who say owned if they kill me, i have a very good line-up time so i can HS sum1 a few metres away with a flick of the sniper, so im best.
btw EVERY kit spots tanks,choppers etc, well any kit tht oesnt have a retard behind it
but really, i speak the truth.cowami wrote:
Oh no, it's you again.c4_he_was_famous wrote:
when i rape snipers in servers who say owned if they kill me, i have a very good line-up time so i can HS sum1 a few metres away with a flick of the sniper, so im best.
btw EVERY kit spots tanks,choppers etc, well any kit tht oesnt have a retard behind it
Snipers do help the team. The other team, more often than not.
The problem that I have with the sniper thinking he's the best asset to the team is this:
Say you run into a normal functioning squad, not split up, couple medics/at. No matter what range they are at, what map you are on, you will not do anything but slow them down an insignificant amout. Say they're 200 meters away and you manage to headshot one as they are moving. Well, before you have the chance to cock the bolt, that guy's revived and moving again.
Now all of the sudden, you find yourself spoted within seconds, and the squad will either 1: keep moving, but put something (a building) between you and them, or 2: counter snipe you with they're super accurate eryx rounds. Only difference is when you're hit with one of them, no amount of electricity will bring you back.
Same goes for claymores, as long as the squad isn't dumb and stay right behind eachother, you might take out 1 or 2, but they will be revived and move as if nothing has happened.
I'm not saying that the sniper kit is utterly useless, but when you are going up against anyone who has the slightest idea of how to work as a squad, you might as well be afk.
Say you run into a normal functioning squad, not split up, couple medics/at. No matter what range they are at, what map you are on, you will not do anything but slow them down an insignificant amout. Say they're 200 meters away and you manage to headshot one as they are moving. Well, before you have the chance to cock the bolt, that guy's revived and moving again.
Now all of the sudden, you find yourself spoted within seconds, and the squad will either 1: keep moving, but put something (a building) between you and them, or 2: counter snipe you with they're super accurate eryx rounds. Only difference is when you're hit with one of them, no amount of electricity will bring you back.
Same goes for claymores, as long as the squad isn't dumb and stay right behind eachother, you might take out 1 or 2, but they will be revived and move as if nothing has happened.
I'm not saying that the sniper kit is utterly useless, but when you are going up against anyone who has the slightest idea of how to work as a squad, you might as well be afk.
pfft, that wouldn't be hard at all. Cept with engi, cuz they're good for tanks, not IO.Todd_Angelo wrote:
I have so many because I'm a lousy shot[E.F.L]Airwolf wrote:
Thts why i have so many KDAs*sigh* Stop with the generalisations already... my flag points > your flag points (for half the score!)Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
Snipers aren't team players.
How did I know I'd find your top kit would be medic? Next you'll be telling me that all medics are team players, yet how many complaints do we see about about guys who won't revive even though you're only 10m away or won't give out heath even when you chase after them spamming "I need a medic!"?You could have done so much more as ANY other kit?Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
Hell, I was owning as a sniper IO this morning but I did it for fun. I could've done so much more as any other kit, even though I outkilled everyone else.
Okay, same server, same map, same player load each time; please outkill everyone as spec ops, assault and engineer. And post proof. Thanks.
This is what I always find amusing about players thinking that snipers are not being team players. Replace your above comment with a lone medic against the same squad. Do you think a lone competent medic will hold a flag better than a lone competent sniper? I think not. Two claymores, followed by nades, will buy you enough time to take out whoever is left. Nothing is stopping you from taking a dead enemies kit, use it against them, resupply for more claymore, then defend the flag again as a sniper.Drexel wrote:
The problem that I have with the sniper thinking he's the best asset to the team is this:
Say you run into a normal functioning squad, not split up, couple medics/at. No matter what range they are at, what map you are on, you will not do anything but slow them down an insignificant amout. Say they're 200 meters away and you manage to headshot one as they are moving. Well, before you have the chance to cock the bolt, that guy's revived and moving again.
Now all of the sudden, you find yourself spoted within seconds, and the squad will either 1: keep moving, but put something (a building) between you and them, or 2: counter snipe you with they're super accurate eryx rounds. Only difference is when you're hit with one of them, no amount of electricity will bring you back.
Same goes for claymores, as long as the squad isn't dumb and stay right behind eachother, you might take out 1 or 2, but they will be revived and move as if nothing has happened.
I'm not saying that the sniper kit is utterly useless, but when you are going up against anyone who has the slightest idea of how to work as a squad, you might as well be afk.
Last edited by Ilocano (2007-04-24 09:36:23)
But if you are close enough to grab one of their kits, I can guarantee that you will be dead before you can get it.Ilocano wrote:
This is what I always find amusing about players thinking that snipers are not being team players. Replace your above comment with a lone medic against the same squad. Do you think a lone competent medic will hold a flag better than a lone competent sniper? I think not. Two claymores, followed by nades, will buy you enough time to take out whoever is left. Nothing is stopping you from taking a dead enemies kit, use it against them, resupply for more claymore, then defend the flag again as a sniper.Drexel wrote:
The problem that I have with the sniper thinking he's the best asset to the team is this:
Say you run into a normal functioning squad, not split up, couple medics/at. No matter what range they are at, what map you are on, you will not do anything but slow them down an insignificant amout. Say they're 200 meters away and you manage to headshot one as they are moving. Well, before you have the chance to cock the bolt, that guy's revived and moving again.
Now all of the sudden, you find yourself spoted within seconds, and the squad will either 1: keep moving, but put something (a building) between you and them, or 2: counter snipe you with they're super accurate eryx rounds. Only difference is when you're hit with one of them, no amount of electricity will bring you back.
Same goes for claymores, as long as the squad isn't dumb and stay right behind eachother, you might take out 1 or 2, but they will be revived and move as if nothing has happened.
I'm not saying that the sniper kit is utterly useless, but when you are going up against anyone who has the slightest idea of how to work as a squad, you might as well be afk.
I agree, a single player that is taking on a full squad is pretty much screwed, (Except for that AT who can eryx the squadleader first). But try this, say you and 2 other snipers are running to defend a flag that just went neutral. You wouldn't stand half a chance of efectively neutralizing the treat as compaired to the same three medics or supports.
But at the same time, the only role a sniper has is to kill. All other kits (with the exception of Assault) have ways of gaining a team score by helping the team in an "non-com" sort of way. This is where I as well as many other players who's favorite kit isn't sniper have the problem. You can kill 20+ guys in a round, have 12 flag caps, but hell, so is 60% of everyone else in a good server. So I don't see how you can claim that this is helping your team.
After the claymore and nades, only two enemies should be left Plenty of opportunity to dodge and run circles around buildings to get to an enemy kit.Drexel wrote:
But if you are close enough to grab one of their kits, I can guarantee that you will be dead before you can get it.
Sniper spotting is definitely under-rated. Last night on Jalalabad IO, I was spotting for my team, covering the outpost and lake flags. My team mates were near the flags staying alive because I spotted the enemies. When an enemy paused to scope shoot, bam, he was dead from my shot or damaged enough for the team mates to finish the job. Sure, I didn't score much team points, but my team mates stayed alive and held the flags.Drexel wrote:
But at the same time, the only role a sniper has is to kill. All other kits (with the exception of Assault) have ways of gaining a team score by helping the team in an "non-com" sort of way. This is where I as well as many other players who's favorite kit isn't sniper have the problem. You can kill 20+ guys in a round, have 12 flag caps, but hell, so is 60% of everyone else in a good server. So I don't see how you can claim that this is helping your team.
No offence, but any desent commander can uav a mob of players and spot the rest of them from the scan, plus many more that you cannot see.Ilocano wrote:
Sniper spotting is definitely under-rated. Last night on Jalalabad IO, I was spotting for my team, covering the outpost and lake flags. My team mates were near the flags staying alive because I spotted the enemies. When an enemy paused to scope shoot, bam, he was dead from my shot or damaged enough for the team mates to finish the job. Sure, I didn't score much team points, but my team mates stayed alive and held the flags.
None taken. Once a back flag is taken on Jalalabad, multiple fronts are open. Along with retaking the back flags, you still have to hold the front flags. If you concentrate all your forces on the back flag, soon enough, all the front flags will be taken. UAV can only spot one area at a time. Commander is usually busy with the heavy action area. My team was busy holding the front flags against smaller squads.Drexel wrote:
No offence, but any desent commander can uav a mob of players and spot the rest of them from the scan, plus many more that you cannot see.Ilocano wrote:
Sniper spotting is definitely under-rated. Last night on Jalalabad IO, I was spotting for my team, covering the outpost and lake flags. My team mates were near the flags staying alive because I spotted the enemies. When an enemy paused to scope shoot, bam, he was dead from my shot or damaged enough for the team mates to finish the job. Sure, I didn't score much team points, but my team mates stayed alive and held the flags.
Which is the definition of a sniper. But as soon as anything armored or a large group of people come, you are next to useless.Ilocano wrote:
My team was busy holding the front flags against smaller squads.
Search and you will find a thread I did on Teamplay and sniping a while bk. If you dont then xfire me and I'll explain. Snipers CAN be teamplayers, its just there are LEVELS of what is defined as teamplay.Dersmikner wrote:
I've read a lot here about sniping and medic and how sniping is an individual deal, as opposed to a team kit.
SNIPER and TEAM aren't mutually exclusive. When I'm sniper I ALWAYS make sure my contribution does something for the team. There's no other reason to play. I'm in it to win it, and I think the way I play is VERY positive for the team.
If I'm MEC I always spawn at hotel. I do one of three things:
1. I run like hell to the East Wall, dropping a claymore at the alleyway nearest the hill, and another on the outside run of the East Wall, then I settle in behind the third palm tree, and try to block the USMC passage to Cement Factory / Train Accident down the East Wall and Hotel through the alleyways. The claymores give me some coverage if anyone gets past me, and I can pick off runners and control one entire third of the map.
I consider that an important team goal. I'm protecting three CPs at one time, and shutting off one front of the battle.
2. I run towards the West hills, dropping 2 claymores along the tin wall, one at either entrance. Then I lie up against the wall targeting the hill behind the trash dumpster, and the entrance farthest South. That gives me a chance to keep USMC from hitting Hotel from the West side.
3. The last thing I might sometimes do is drop one claymore at the North opening in the West side tin wall, and continue through that entrance to the Western hills. I drop one claymore in the hills, then backup and try to snipe the run at Suburbs/Square.
I try to make sure that USMC can't run past Hotel down that Western run and give MEC two fronts.
If USMC has made a run at the island, I'll often get on the roof at Factory and try to protect that CP so no matter what else happens my guys have a spawn point on the island. Sometimes I'll get between the railroad ties between Gatehouse and Cement and cover my guys who are going for Train.
So, in conclusion ;-) I really feel like even when I'm sniping I'm doing what I can to help the team win. I think abunch of guys standing around hotel lobbing grenades and reviving people to grab a shitton of points aren't doing anything more for the team than I am. I'd argue they aren't doing as much.
Drexel with a squad behind you a sniper can be very effective. Ive done it and it works fine for me, we win the round, job done.
I was supporting my team by spotting and reducing enemy health. My team mates were other kits. I was spotting those trying to flank my team mates so they wouldn't be attacked from behind. They could take cover and wait for the enemy dot to get in the line of fire, without having to expose there own positions.Drexel wrote:
Which is the definition of a sniper. But as soon as anything armored or a large group of people come, you are next to useless.Ilocano wrote:
My team was busy holding the front flags against smaller squads.
If snipers got points for spotting enemies that then got killed while the red dot was still active, snipers would be more appreciated. And like the original BF2 intro movie, if snipers were needed to call in artillery strikes.
No, because there's always a freaking tree that blocks your spot, even as sniper.General Breetai wrote:
Does a medic spot tanks, apcs and attack choppers all the time?
That's an unfair comparison. Any kit which runs alone into a decent squad is in trouble. That's why this is a team game. But the sniper can also have a squad. So, one of the enemy squad is down, great. Throw a nade to get the medic. Boom, 2 down, 2 left. 4 against 2. Pretty good chances for the squad with the sniper.Drexel wrote:
The problem that I have with the sniper thinking he's the best asset to the team is this:
Say you run into a normal functioning squad, not split up, couple medics/at. No matter what range they are at, what map you are on, you will not do anything but slow them down an insignificant amout. Say they're 200 meters away and you manage to headshot one as they are moving. Well, before you have the chance to cock the bolt, that guy's revived and moving again.
Now all of the sudden, you find yourself spoted within seconds, and the squad will either 1: keep moving, but put something (a building) between you and them, or 2: counter snipe you with they're super accurate eryx rounds. Only difference is when you're hit with one of them, no amount of electricity will bring you back.
Same goes for claymores, as long as the squad isn't dumb and stay right behind eachother, you might take out 1 or 2, but they will be revived and move as if nothing has happened.
I'm not saying that the sniper kit is utterly useless, but when you are going up against anyone who has the slightest idea of how to work as a squad, you might as well be afk.
Also, in my favorite sport, close combat sniping, you will have trouble reanimating the squad leader. I need 2-3 shots for the leader, that's 7 shots left for the medic. If i spot you first, a squad of 2-4 ppl. is fair game in my opinion and I get them as often as they get me.
From my point of view, snipers are often misjudged due to the versatility of the kit. Some snipers are too dumb to hit anything, so they spam claymores (and ruin the name of all others.....). Others are slow and can't hit anything in close combat. They stay behind and go for lone wolfs, and can't stop anything more than a single ppl. This can often be seen by players who have gigantic K/D ratios, but lousy SPMs (personally I think this must be the most boring tactic to play). And there are other who are fast and use their gun in a more automatic fashion. And this can stop small squads. The stopping power of a fast semi-automatic sniper can be a real asset to any team.
Let me put it this way. Commander in clan matches goes sniper.
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