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Poll

What do you think about guns in the US?

They should be allowed freely in the US. (2nd amm.)28%28% - 51
They should be controlled.(registered)31%31% - 56
They should be controlled like automatic weapons are.12%12% - 23
They should be banned.11%11% - 20
I don't give a shit, I don't live there.15%15% - 27
Total: 177
2007-04-24 15:55:08
JG1567JG
Member
+110|6587|United States of America
About a month ago a friend of mine was approached by three guys and at about 20ft away one of the guys yelled "HEY MOTHERFUCKER" and they came walking toward him.  He raised the side of his shirt and put his hand on his gun and the three guys turned and ran away and as they ran he said all he heard was "Oh Shit".

Perfect example of self defense with out the possible attackers having a gun and not even a shot was fired.  He doesn't feel like his life was threatened but he does think he was about to get jumped (as in ass kicking) and robbed.
2007-04-24 15:57:13
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|6765|UK

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Vilham wrote:

Parker wrote:

please, enlighten all of us as to what is, by your standards of course, "a tool of defence".

i for one would love to know.
I realy am surprised at how speaking to a wall is similar to speaking to you guys. This has been done so many times now. If you have a gun the criminal WILL have a gun, thus having a gun is no defence as the criminal will have the gun pointed at you before you can draw your gun you will be shot. It realy isnt complicated, if you cant understand that even as a human being i have little hope for our race.
1) Criminals do not always carry guns

2) Not all criminals carry guns.

3) If guns were illegal, the criminals that did carry guns probably would still.

Is that sound logic?
No. end of.

Everyother country in the world that doesnt have legal gun ownership doesnt have many gun toting criminals at all. That is where your whole argument falls apart. This is the EXACT point of my first post. Yanks just cant accept that they are wrong about gun laws. I dont personally give a flying shit whether you have guns or not but please for the love of god just accept that they dont prevent crime.

I guess you just value life very cheaply.

Last edited by Vilham (2007-04-24 15:57:57)

2007-04-24 16:03:07
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6631|949

Vilham wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Vilham wrote:


I realy am surprised at how speaking to a wall is similar to speaking to you guys. This has been done so many times now. If you have a gun the criminal WILL have a gun, thus having a gun is no defence as the criminal will have the gun pointed at you before you can draw your gun you will be shot. It realy isnt complicated, if you cant understand that even as a human being i have little hope for our race.
1) Criminals do not always carry guns

2) Not all criminals carry guns.

3) If guns were illegal, the criminals that did carry guns probably would still.

Is that sound logic?
No. end of.

Everyother country in the world that doesnt have legal gun ownership doesnt have many gun toting criminals at all. That is where your whole argument falls apart. This is the EXACT point of my first post. Yanks just cant accept that they are wrong about gun laws. I dont personally give a flying shit whether you have guns or not but please for the love of god just accept that they dont prevent crime.

I guess you just value life very cheaply.
"Doesn't have that many gun toting criminals."  They still have them.  End of.

Preventing crime and defending ones self is different.  End of.

I don't love God, only Zuul.  (This is not end of )
2007-04-24 16:03:45
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6467
IMO just make guns harder to get. Make it so that only sane people who aren't blind can get guns. And also ban the really destructive military grade weapons. Civilians don't need assault rifles.
2007-04-24 16:05:34
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+794|6684|United States of America
Why can't I get an assault rifle? There's no saying I'll be using it either. Banning certain types isn't cool from the collectors point of view.
2007-04-24 16:06:54
bubbass
humble
+61|6568

Vilham wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Vilham wrote:

I realy am surprised at how speaking to a wall is similar to speaking to you guys. This has been done so many times now. If you have a gun the criminal WILL have a gun, thus having a gun is no defence as the criminal will have the gun pointed at you before you can draw your gun you will be shot. It realy isnt complicated, if you cant understand that even as a human being i have little hope for our race.
1) Criminals do not always carry guns

2) Not all criminals carry guns.

3) If guns were illegal, the criminals that did carry guns probably would still.

Is that sound logic?
No. end of.

Everyother country in the world that doesnt have legal gun ownership doesnt have many gun toting criminals at all. That is where your whole argument falls apart. This is the EXACT point of my first post. Yanks just cant accept that they are wrong about gun laws. I dont personally give a flying shit whether you have guns or not but please for the love of god just accept that they dont prevent crime.

I guess you just value life very cheaply.
No, you are very wrong. Why? Because the US has soo many guns in it's possession it would be impossible to eliminate them to the extent of your country. It just wouldn't work, plain and simple. So don't sit there and slander my country and my rights because you can't enjoy the privileges of owning a firearm.

Please explain to me how owning a gun won't prevent crime? Wouldn't that make a criminal think twice about robbing a house if there's potentially armed people inside? What about if I'm being mugged by some crackhead that has a knife and I'm armed with my pistol because of CCW laws in my state? That doesn't give me an advantage over the crackhead? Try looking outside the box before you make retarded posts like the ones you just did.
2007-04-24 16:09:47
bubbass
humble
+61|6568

doctastrangelove1964 wrote:

IMO just make guns harder to get. Make it so that only sane people who aren't blind can get guns. And also ban the really destructive military grade weapons. Civilians don't need assault rifles.
Some states allow blind people to hunt, believe it or not. But, it's not like they go out on their own in the woods to kill shit. They have to have another person with them to aim for them. Also, assault rifles make nice collector pieces and even better hunting rifles. Just because my rifle has a pistol grip, high capacity magazine and a bayonet lug doesn't mean it's a killing machine. I could buy the same accessories for my pistol.
2007-04-24 16:35:30
JG1567JG
Member
+110|6587|United States of America

doctastrangelove1964 wrote:

IMO just make guns harder to get. Make it so that only sane people who aren't blind can get guns. And also ban the really destructive military grade weapons. Civilians don't need assault rifles.
AR-10 Assault Rifle

Remington Model 700 Hunting Rifle

Both shoot .308 caliber round

What is it about the first gun that should be illegal?  Because its semi-auto?  JFK was killed with a bolt action rifle.  Now I know, lets reinstate the Clinton Gun Ban that banned a rifle because it looked scary.

I would bet the Remington has been used in more crimes than AR-10's and AR-15's put togehter and I would also bet that Assault rifles are used in less than 3% of all gun crimes and I am just guessing but I bet I'm right.
2007-04-24 16:47:49
l41e
Member
+677|6647

I'd just like to say that some of the arguments both sides are making here are somewhat ludicrous. My country's better than your country, you're an idiot, because Uncle Bob said so...

Curiously, these are the same generic arguments that can be used by both sides.
2007-04-24 16:56:22
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6467

JG1567JG wrote:

doctastrangelove1964 wrote:

IMO just make guns harder to get. Make it so that only sane people who aren't blind can get guns. And also ban the really destructive military grade weapons. Civilians don't need assault rifles.
AR-10 Assault Rifle

Remington Model 700 Hunting Rifle

Both shoot .308 caliber round

What is it about the first gun that should be illegal?  Because its semi-auto?  JFK was killed with a bolt action rifle.  Now I know, lets reinstate the Clinton Gun Ban that banned a rifle because it looked scary.

I would bet the Remington has been used in more crimes than AR-10's and AR-15's put togehter and I would also bet that Assault rifles are used in less than 3% of all gun crimes and I am just guessing but I bet I'm right.
But you can kill way more people faster with the AR10. The Model 700 can't kill many people very fast. And if you actually are hunting you only need one shot at a time if you have a gun that fires a 7.62.
2007-04-24 17:12:15
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6643

Elamdri wrote:

Hey, anyone on here who owns a gun, I'm turning 21 next year and I wanna get a firearm, my neighborhood is not very safe and I'm gonna be here another 2 years minimum. What I wanna know is

A) Whats the process for getting a Firearms License.
B) I've never shot a gun before, whats a good place to go practice.
C) Whats a good first gun?
never purchase a gun with the mind to use it on somebody, even if its for self defense.  say you bought that gun, got mugged and shot the fucker.  the DA could use this thread right here to prove intent to shoot.

guns should only be purchased and hopefully never used for the purpose they were invented, unless your in iraq.
2007-04-24 17:15:30
Smitty5613
Member
+46|6526|Middle of nowhere, California

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Elamdri wrote:

Hey, anyone on here who owns a gun, I'm turning 21 next year and I wanna get a firearm, my neighborhood is not very safe and I'm gonna be here another 2 years minimum. What I wanna know is

A) Whats the process for getting a Firearms License.
B) I've never shot a gun before, whats a good place to go practice.
C) Whats a good first gun?
never purchase a gun with the mind to use it on somebody, even if its for self defense.  say you bought that gun, got mugged and shot the fucker.  the DA could use this thread right here to prove intent to shoot.

guns should only be purchased and hopefully never used for the purpose they were invented, unless your in iraq.
or you're hunting......
2007-04-24 17:22:07
0ji
Member
+36|6227|Estados Unidos
I think there should be a test - mental & physical -  to see if you are worthy of owning and using a gun.  Then you can get a license to be able to get them.  I think the VA tech massacre possibly could've been stopped if the madman wasn't mentally ill.
2007-04-24 17:23:04
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6643

Smitty5613 wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Elamdri wrote:

Hey, anyone on here who owns a gun, I'm turning 21 next year and I wanna get a firearm, my neighborhood is not very safe and I'm gonna be here another 2 years minimum. What I wanna know is

A) Whats the process for getting a Firearms License.
B) I've never shot a gun before, whats a good place to go practice.
C) Whats a good first gun?
never purchase a gun with the mind to use it on somebody, even if its for self defense.  say you bought that gun, got mugged and shot the fucker.  the DA could use this thread right here to prove intent to shoot.

guns should only be purchased and hopefully never used for the purpose they were invented, unless your in iraq.
or you're hunting......
or hunting
2007-04-24 17:31:59
Elamdri
The New Johnnie Cochran
+134|6645|Peoria

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Elamdri wrote:

Hey, anyone on here who owns a gun, I'm turning 21 next year and I wanna get a firearm, my neighborhood is not very safe and I'm gonna be here another 2 years minimum. What I wanna know is

A) Whats the process for getting a Firearms License.
B) I've never shot a gun before, whats a good place to go practice.
C) Whats a good first gun?
never purchase a gun with the mind to use it on somebody, even if its for self defense.  say you bought that gun, got mugged and shot the fucker.  the DA could use this thread right here to prove intent to shoot.

guns should only be purchased and hopefully never used for the purpose they were invented, unless your in iraq.
Never planning on it. Just hopeful that a burglar will be scared off by the sound of a cocking weapon. Besides, I'm a law student, I know all about that. But thanks for the advice.
2007-04-24 17:36:26
blisteringsilence
I'd rather hunt with Cheney than ride with Kennedy
+83|6701|Little Rock, Arkansas

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Well, what about in the ghetto areas of the US?  You want to teach them to use guns too?
Honestly? Yes, I do. If those ignorant gang bangers would just hit what they were aiming at (a rarity), I would get to quit running calls on innocent/quasi-innocent bystanders.

That's why I highly endorse this product among the gang-banging community: A slide with the sights on the right of the slide instead of the top.

doctastrangelove1964 wrote:

But you can kill way more people faster with the AR10. The Model 700 can't kill many people very fast. And if you actually are hunting you only need one shot at a time if you have a gun that fires a 7.62.
I disagree. Let's compare two rifles:

This is the one that my roommate hunts with:
https://www.gunblast.com/images/Ruger-NEWMini14/MVC-882F.jpg

This is the same rifle with a different stock and accessories:
https://members.arstechnica.com/x/demandred/AA9126Large.jpg

Just because a rifle "looks scary" is no reason to ban it. I know plenty of people that hunt varmits (pests) with AR clones. They're great, accurate rifles that can take a beating. Hence the appeal.

Not to mention, they're expensive, and therefore not the choice of the vast majority of criminals. As a rule, people don't commit crimes with any kind of rifle. They're big, can't be concealed, and unwieldy.
2007-04-24 17:38:45
Smitty5613
Member
+46|6526|Middle of nowhere, California

Elamdri wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Elamdri wrote:

Hey, anyone on here who owns a gun, I'm turning 21 next year and I wanna get a firearm, my neighborhood is not very safe and I'm gonna be here another 2 years minimum. What I wanna know is

A) Whats the process for getting a Firearms License.
B) I've never shot a gun before, whats a good place to go practice.
C) Whats a good first gun?
never purchase a gun with the mind to use it on somebody, even if its for self defense.  say you bought that gun, got mugged and shot the fucker.  the DA could use this thread right here to prove intent to shoot.

guns should only be purchased and hopefully never used for the purpose they were invented, unless your in iraq.
Never planning on it. Just hopeful that a burglar will be scared off by the sound of a cocking weapon. Besides, I'm a law student, I know all about that. But thanks for the advice.
idk, go to a gunshop and ask sum1 wit an FFL license....
2007-04-24 17:38:59
blisteringsilence
I'd rather hunt with Cheney than ride with Kennedy
+83|6701|Little Rock, Arkansas

0ji wrote:

I think there should be a test - mental & physical -  to see if you are worthy of owning and using a gun.  Then you can get a license to be able to get them.  I think the VA tech massacre possibly could've been stopped if the madman wasn't mentally ill.
The fallicy to this argument is that madmen and criminals acquire their weapons legally. If someone who is intent on doing harm is denied a firearm, he will find a way to get one. And for the right amount of money, you can get any gun you want, anywhere in the world. All you have to do is ask the right person. I guarantee that I could fly to London tomorrow, and have a glock in my hand within 6 hours of stepping off the airplane.
2007-04-24 17:41:01
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|6765|UK

bubbass wrote:

Vilham wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

1) Criminals do not always carry guns

2) Not all criminals carry guns.

3) If guns were illegal, the criminals that did carry guns probably would still.

Is that sound logic?
No. end of.

Everyother country in the world that doesnt have legal gun ownership doesnt have many gun toting criminals at all. That is where your whole argument falls apart. This is the EXACT point of my first post. Yanks just cant accept that they are wrong about gun laws. I dont personally give a flying shit whether you have guns or not but please for the love of god just accept that they dont prevent crime.

I guess you just value life very cheaply.
No, you are very wrong. Why? Because the US has soo many guns in it's possession it would be impossible to eliminate them to the extent of your country. It just wouldn't work, plain and simple. So don't sit there and slander my country and my rights because you can't enjoy the privileges of owning a firearm.

Please explain to me how owning a gun won't prevent crime? Wouldn't that make a criminal think twice about robbing a house if there's potentially armed people inside? What about if I'm being mugged by some crackhead that has a knife and I'm armed with my pistol because of CCW laws in my state? That doesn't give me an advantage over the crackhead? Try looking outside the box before you make retarded posts like the ones you just did.
read all my posts before replying to one jackass.

I already know the US is fucked in the face because of its gun ownership, ive already stated i dont give a shit. If you have nuts who go shooting up schools thats your own problem deal with it, but dont deny what is clear fact supported by MOUNTAINS of evidence.

As to that i have a gun i wont rob crap... its called scaling, you have a gun, the criminal gets a bigger and better gun. Learn logic. Its not hard, infact I could swear its built into humans, maybe just not some people out there though...

Last edited by Vilham (2007-04-24 17:42:08)

2007-04-24 17:47:08
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|6765|UK

blisteringsilence wrote:

0ji wrote:

I think there should be a test - mental & physical -  to see if you are worthy of owning and using a gun.  Then you can get a license to be able to get them.  I think the VA tech massacre possibly could've been stopped if the madman wasn't mentally ill.
The fallicy to this argument is that madmen and criminals acquire their weapons legally. If someone who is intent on doing harm is denied a firearm, he will find a way to get one. And for the right amount of money, you can get any gun you want, anywhere in the world. All you have to do is ask the right person. I guarantee that I could fly to London tomorrow, and have a glock in my hand within 6 hours of stepping off the airplane.
I guarantee you that it would cost 10x more than in America and be 10x harder to get one without first just being robbed anyway of all that money you were going to buy one with. The proof is in the rest of the civilised world.
2007-04-24 17:48:06
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6631|949

Vilham wrote:

read all my posts before replying to one jackass.

I already know the US is fucked in the face because of its gun ownership, ive already stated i dont give a shit. If you have nuts who go shooting up schools thats your own problem deal with it, but dont deny what is clear fact supported by MOUNTAINS of evidence.

As to that i have a gun i wont rob crap... its called scaling, you have a gun, the criminal gets a bigger and better gun. Learn logic. Its not hard, infact I could swear its built into humans, maybe just not some people out there though...
What is clear fact?  That making guns illegal to own will prevent crime?  Or that making guns illegal will prevent crimes involving guns?

Both untrue by the way.

The bottom line is, that idea (making gun ownership illegal to prevent gun crimes) works in the UK, but not in the US.

You don't know this though, because YOU don't live here.  It seems to me all your 'knowledge' about this subject is second-hand.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-04-24 17:48:43)

2007-04-24 17:50:09
Smitty5613
Member
+46|6526|Middle of nowhere, California

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Vilham wrote:

read all my posts before replying to one jackass.

I already know the US is fucked in the face because of its gun ownership, ive already stated i dont give a shit. If you have nuts who go shooting up schools thats your own problem deal with it, but dont deny what is clear fact supported by MOUNTAINS of evidence.

As to that i have a gun i wont rob crap... its called scaling, you have a gun, the criminal gets a bigger and better gun. Learn logic. Its not hard, infact I could swear its built into humans, maybe just not some people out there though...
What is clear fact?  That making guns illegal to own will prevent crime?  Or that making guns illegal will prevent crimes involving guns?

Both untrue by the way.

The bottom line is, that idea (making gun ownership illegal to prevent gun crimes) works in the UK, but not in the US.

You don't know this though, because YOU don't live here.  It seems to me all your 'knowledge' about this subject is second-hand.
will banning butcher knives help stop crime in UK too??
2007-04-24 17:53:33
bubbass
humble
+61|6568

Vilham wrote:

I already know the US is fucked in the face because of its gun ownership, ive already stated i dont give a shit. If you have nuts who go shooting up schools thats your own problem deal with it, but dont deny what is clear fact supported by MOUNTAINS of evidence.

As to that i have a gun i wont rob crap... its called scaling, you have a gun, the criminal gets a bigger and better gun. Learn logic. Its not hard, infact I could swear its built into humans, maybe just not some people out there though...
Oh, such hostility. Calm down, okay? I own guns because I can. I own guns for the sport, the hobby and for hunting. More importantly I own guns for protection of my family and myself. I get the same chances as someone trying to harm me with a gun. It's not even about that, it's about odds. Having a gun for my protection increases my odds for survival from someone intentionally trying to harm me. I'm sorry you don't have those same odds, please don't bash me about it.

As for me personally, it's hard to come into my house with a bigger and better weapon then the ones I have here. There is no logic about this. Criminals don't go out and buy the newest and best weapons on the market for petty crimes. They get what's available to them on the street. Myself on the other hand, I take pride in my firearm collection and I'd like to see someone try and get the upper hand on me in my house.
2007-04-24 17:58:06
bubbass
humble
+61|6568

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Vilham wrote:

read all my posts before replying to one jackass.

I already know the US is fucked in the face because of its gun ownership, ive already stated i dont give a shit. If you have nuts who go shooting up schools thats your own problem deal with it, but dont deny what is clear fact supported by MOUNTAINS of evidence.

As to that i have a gun i wont rob crap... its called scaling, you have a gun, the criminal gets a bigger and better gun. Learn logic. Its not hard, infact I could swear its built into humans, maybe just not some people out there though...
What is clear fact?  That making guns illegal to own will prevent crime?  Or that making guns illegal will prevent crimes involving guns?

Both untrue by the way.

The bottom line is, that idea (making gun ownership illegal to prevent gun crimes) works in the UK, but not in the US.

You don't know this though, because YOU don't live here.  It seems to me all your 'knowledge' about this subject is second-hand.
Thank you. I love your point.

[google]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2807602702866411553&hl=en[/google]
This is a nice video on gun control, I suggest that everyone checks it out.
2007-04-24 18:00:01
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|6765|UK

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Vilham wrote:

read all my posts before replying to one jackass.

I already know the US is fucked in the face because of its gun ownership, ive already stated i dont give a shit. If you have nuts who go shooting up schools thats your own problem deal with it, but dont deny what is clear fact supported by MOUNTAINS of evidence.

As to that i have a gun i wont rob crap... its called scaling, you have a gun, the criminal gets a bigger and better gun. Learn logic. Its not hard, infact I could swear its built into humans, maybe just not some people out there though...
What is clear fact?  That making guns illegal to own will prevent crime?  Or that making guns illegal will prevent crimes involving guns?

Both untrue by the way.

The bottom line is, that idea (making gun ownership illegal to prevent gun crimes) works in the UK, but not in the US.

You don't know this though, because YOU don't live here.  It seems to me all your 'knowledge' about this subject is second-hand.
did you fail to read my post or something. Ive already stated the US is fucked in the face. I know it wouldnt work in the US hence its fucked in the face...

 

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