stkhoplite
Banned
+564|6927|Sheffield-England
BLACKSBURG, Va. - A Virginia Tech senior from South Korea was behind the massacre of at least 30 people locked inside a campus building in the deadliest shooting rampage in modern U.S. history, the university said Tuesday.



Ballistics tests also found that one of the guns used in that attack was also used in a shooting two hours earlier at a dorm that left two people dead, Virginia State Police said.

Police identified the shooter as Cho Seung-Hui, 23, a senior from South Korea who was in the English department at Virginia Tech. Cho, a South Korean native, was in the U.S. as a resident alien with a residence established in Centerville, Va. Cho was living on campus in Harper Residence Hall.

The bloodbath ended with the gunman’s suicide, bringing the death toll from two separate shootings — first at a dorm, then in a classroom building — to 33 and stamping the campus in the picturesque Blue Ridge Mountains with unspeakable tragedy.

'He was a loner'
"He was a loner, and we're having difficulty finding information about him," school spokesman Larry Hincker said.

Cho had lived legally in the United States with his parents for 14 years, a U.S. immigration official said on Tuesday. He moved to the United States in September 1992 and lived in Centreville, Va., said Chris Bentley, a spokesman with U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services.

South Korea's Foreign Ministry expressed its condolences, saying there was no known motive for the shootings and that South Korea hoped the tragedy would not "stir up racial prejudice or confrontation."

Two law enforcement officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because the information had not been announced, said Cho's fingerprints were found on the guns used in the shootings. The serial numbers on the two weapons had been filed off, the officials said.

One law enforcement official said Cho was carrying a backpack that contained receipts for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol.

Col. Steve Flaherty, superintendent of the Virginia State Police, said it was reasonable to assume that Cho was the shooter in both attacks but that link was yet definitive.

“There’s no evidence of any accomplice at either event, but we’re exploring the possibility,” he said.

At least 26 people were taken to hospitals after the second attack, some seriously injured. Twelve students remained hospitalized in stable condition on Tuesday, officials said.

Bush to attend service
State, local and federal investigators spent the night collecting, processing and analyzing evidence from within the classroom building, Norris Hall. The deceased were recovered from at least four classrooms on the second floor and a stairwell of Norris Hall.

The gunman, who took his life, was discovered by police in a classroom among the victims.

All of the deceased have been transported to the Medical Examiner's Office in Roanoke for examination and identification.

The names of the deceased students and faculty will be released once all victims are positively identified and next of kin notified.

President Bush planned to attend a memorial service Tuesday afternoon at the university, the White House said, and Gov. Tim Kaine was flying back to Virginia from Tokyo for the 2 p.m. convocation. The people of Blacksburg and the Virginia Tech campus of more than 25,000 full time students struggled to find order in the wake of the shooting.

“For all the children in our community who are afraid,” one woman pleaded in a church service held for those seeking solace.

Another added: “For parents near and far who wonder at a time like this, ‘Is my child safe?”’

Investigators gave no motive for the attack.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18148802/?GT1=9246

Last edited by stkhoplite (2007-04-17 09:02:47)

Shem
sɥǝɯ
+152|6975|London (At Heart)

Whole affair is bullshit,

perhaps the americans will realise guns and idiots don't mix, stop selling them legally.

Last edited by Shem (2007-04-17 09:11:07)

notorious
Nay vee, bay bee.
+1,396|7195|The United Center

Shem wrote:

Whole affair is bullshit,

perhaps the americans will realise guns and idiots don't mix, stop selling them legally.
...and how would that stop the illegal acquisition of firearms?
Cougar
Banned
+1,962|7212|Dallas

ThomasMorgan wrote:

Shem wrote:

Whole affair is bullshit,

perhaps the americans will realise guns and idiots don't mix, stop selling them legally.
...and how would that stop the illegal acquisition of firearms?
Holy shit, logic.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6738|Éire
The whole thing is a tragedy. America needs to face the fact that they're not living in the wild west anymore and properly regulate gun control throughout all the states. Assholes like this guy shouldn't be given any help in carrying out this kind of massacre and that's what the non existent gun controls do.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7049|132 and Bush

ThomasMorgan wrote:

Shem wrote:

Whole affair is bullshit,

perhaps the americans will realise guns and idiots don't mix, stop selling them legally.
...and how would that stop the illegal acquisition of firearms?
Actually, it almost sounds as if he is advocating selling them illegally..

Do we know where the weapons came from?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6893|The Land of Scott Walker

Kmarion wrote:

ThomasMorgan wrote:

Shem wrote:

Whole affair is bullshit,

perhaps the americans will realise guns and idiots don't mix, stop selling them legally.
...and how would that stop the illegal acquisition of firearms?
Actually, it almost sounds as if he is advocating selling them illegally..

Do we know where the weapons came from?
Receipts for a March purchase of a Glock 9mm according to the OP, but I haven't heard anything else.
Cougar
Banned
+1,962|7212|Dallas

Kmarion wrote:

ThomasMorgan wrote:

Shem wrote:

Whole affair is bullshit,

perhaps the americans will realise guns and idiots don't mix, stop selling them legally.
...and how would that stop the illegal acquisition of firearms?
Actually, it almost sounds as if he is advocating selling them illegally..

Do we know where the weapons came from?

Braddock wrote:

The whole thing is a tragedy. America needs to face the fact that they're not living in the wild west anymore and properly regulate gun control throughout all the states. Assholes like this guy shouldn't be given any help in carrying out this kind of massacre and that's what the non existent gun controls do.
You guys are missing the point.  Regulating gun control wouldn't stop violent crimes such as this.  If someone wants to shoot up a school and can't buy a gun legally, they would just go buy one illegally.

The type of people who do shit like this don't care about gun laws.  Having legal firearms sales just makes it easier to track where the gun came from and who bought it once a crime has been committed.
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6893|The Land of Scott Walker

Braddock wrote:

The whole thing is a tragedy. America needs to face the fact that they're not living in the wild west anymore and properly regulate gun control throughout all the states. Assholes like this guy shouldn't be given any help in carrying out this kind of massacre and that's what the non existent gun controls do.
If it was the wild west, that guy wouldn't have dared to bring that gun in a room of 30 people or he'd have been dead before he hit the ground.  Oh, and we have plenty of gun laws controlling law abiding people.  Gun laws do not stop these tragedies.
Shem
sɥǝɯ
+152|6975|London (At Heart)

Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6893|The Land of Scott Walker
Darn right I beg to differ.  Just because some misuse guns doesn't mean they should be taken away from everyone else.  Next.
topal63
. . .
+533|7166

Cougar wrote:

You guys are missing the point.  Regulating gun control wouldn't stop violent crimes such as this.  If someone wants to shoot up a school and can't buy a gun legally, they would just go buy one illegally.

The type of people who do shit like this don't care about gun laws.  Having legal firearms sales just makes it easier to track where the gun came from and who bought it once a crime has been committed.
Ditto... it really would just create a black market, then we would have to fund orginizations to fight the crime associated with black market gun sales.
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6671|Escea

I agree with whats already been said, as soon as you make something illegal, it'll go underground, just like when they banned alcohol and its just as likely to happen.
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7214|UK
There is no point in having this discussion with Americans who love guns. If you look everywhere else in the world, gun control WORKS. Its too late for America, i suppose that just tough shit for you then, but dont complain when someone you know gets shot.
Cougar
Banned
+1,962|7212|Dallas

BBC wrote:

Firearm crime continues to rise
Officers arrest a suspect in Islington on Wednesday
The figures come a day after a London operation against gun crime
Gun crime in England and Wales is still rising according to Home Office figures released on Thursday.

The number of crimes involving firearms increased by just under 3% in the 12 months to March 2003, to 10,250.

It was well below the 35% rise in the previous year, when gun crime leapt from 7,362 firearms offences to 9,974.

Home Office minister Hazel Blears said: "The risk of a fatal shooting in England and Wales is still one of the lowest in the world."

She added: "But every crime involving a firearm is a serious concern and every life lost to gun crime is a terrible tragedy."

Click here for a graph on firearms offences

Violent crime - excluding robberies and sex attacks - increased by 12% between April and June this year, according to the British Crime Survey quarterly results, also released on Thursday.
That's nice.  Over 10,000 gun crimes in one year on an island that prohibits guns from being owned.

Sydney Morning Herald wrote:

Sydney gun crimes double

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Tim Dick
August 30, 2006 - 10:53AM
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Crime across the state is either stable or declining, according to the latest crime statistics, but there remain significant pockets of problems.

In the 17 categories measured by the Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research, none registered a significant increased over the last two years, while three dropped: break and enter, car theft and stealing from a dwelling.

Murder, assault and sexual assualt were all stable, according to the Bureau's latest quarterly report, released this morning.

Over the past five years, only malicious damage to property was up across the state.

There are still some problems. In inner Sydney, robberies with a firearm increased by 111 per cent over the last two years, robberies without a firearm went up 44 per cent in Canterbury-Bankstown, shoplifting in the Eastern Suburbs went up by 26 per cent, and fraud went up by a quarter in Blacktown.
Wow.  Gun crimes doubled and in some parts the gun crimes increased by 111%.  This is also a country will strict gun laws.

U.S. Dept. of Justice wrote:

After peaking in 1993, the number of gun crimes reported to police declined and then stabilized at levels last seen in 1988.

To view data, click on the chart.

https://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/guncrime.gif

Note: Crimes include the UCR index offenses of murder, robbery, and aggravated assault.
Source: FBI, The Uniform Crime Reports (UCR)

In 2005, about 68% of all murders, 42% of all robberies, and 21% of all aggravated assaults that were reported to the police were committed with a firearm.

According to data from the National Center for Health Statistics, in 2001 about 39% of the deaths that resulted from firearms injuries were homicides, 57% were suicides, 3% were unintentional, and 1% were of undetermined intent.
Gun crimes in America, however, have been slightly on the rise in the past year but have been at the lowest levels in nearly 20 years.
topal63
. . .
+533|7166

Vilham wrote:

There is no point in having this discussion with Americans who love guns. If you look everywhere else in the world, gun control WORKS. Its too late for America, i suppose that just tough shit for you then, but dont complain when someone you know gets shot.
You're actually right, gun-ownership is entrenched in America, as a society. And, it actually does work, has worked in other countries, statistically it has been proven.
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6671|Escea

Vilham wrote:

There is no point in having this discussion with Americans who love guns. If you look everywhere else in the world, gun control WORKS. Its too late for America, i suppose that just tough shit for you then, but dint complain when someone you know gets shot.
I live in England and i have to say that so far, knife control doesn't work, and even guns in some cases, just look at east London recently.
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7214|UK
That doesnt change shit.. Seriously you even laid out the figures. If we multiply the UK's gun crime rate by the 5 to make it count towards the same pop... thats only 50k where as US has 400k... 8x higher gun crime rate. You have put down the facts that just show that you are wrong. Thanks for proving my above point.
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7214|UK

M.O.A.B wrote:

Vilham wrote:

There is no point in having this discussion with Americans who love guns. If you look everywhere else in the world, gun control WORKS. Its too late for America, i suppose that just tough shit for you then, but dint complain when someone you know gets shot.
I live in England and i have to say that so far, knife control doesn't work, and even guns in some cases, just look at east London recently.
Yet our knife crime rate is the same as the US's and our gun crime rate is 8x lower. GUNS DONT REDUCE CRIME!

The only reason you think our knife crime rate is high is because our violent crime is so low that even the slightest trouble is mentioned, a similar incident in the US would be ignored by the media because its more of an everyday event.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7049|132 and Bush

Odds of getting killed by a firearm in America 0.0279271 per 1,000 people. Worth giving up your freedoms?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Shem
sɥǝɯ
+152|6975|London (At Heart)

A series of high-profile shootings have highlighted the issue of gun control in the United States and Australia.

Australian Prime Minister John Howard has called for a ban on handguns following a shooting rampage at Monash University that left two dead and five wounded.

Meanwhile, the string of sniper shootings in the area surrounding Washington DC has prompted calls for tighter gun control in the United States.

There are an estimated 200 million privately held guns in the US, where the number of gun-related deaths each year runs into the tens of thousands.

But pro-firearm lobbyists say that restricted access to guns in countries like the UK and Japan leads to more crime against unarmed citizens.

Critics point out that some of the poorest countries in the world, such as Sierra Leone and El Salvador, are among the richest in weaponry.
Whilst Using 2001 Statistics:

Homocides in 2001 (From Use of Guns): 11,671

Population of America 2001: 285,317,572

Meaning that 1:24446 americans were killed by gun crime in the USA in 2001,

http://thegreenman.net.au/mt/gun_deaths_in_usa.htm

In contrast to the UK:

Homocides (Firearms) 2004: 73

Population: 60,609,153

Meaning: 1:830262.

From another source:


Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):

                                        Homicide                Suicide            Unintentional

USA                      4.08 (1999)          6.08 (1999)              0.42 (1999)

Canada                 0.54 (1999)          2.65 (1997)              0.15 (1997)

Switzerland           0.50 (1999)          5.78 (1998)                     -

Scotland                0.12 (1999)          0.27 (1999)               -

England/Wales      0.12 (1999/00)      0.22 (1999)             0.01 (1999)

Japan                    0.04* (1998)        0.04 (1995)           <0.01 (1997)

http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm

Although slightly varying the same conclusion comes, those with legal guns have much higher crime rates.

Last edited by Shem (2007-04-17 09:51:14)

ATG
Banned
+5,233|6977|Global Command

Kmarion wrote:

Odds of getting killed by a firearm in America 0.0279271 per 1,000 people. Worth giving up your freedoms?
No it's not.
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7214|UK
Yeah fair enough, but i dont want to hear any of you complaining when people go around your country and shoot up malls and schools with legally bought guns. And dont give me crap about how they would get them illegally, when someone wants revenge in England they dont go into the seedy blackmarket to get a gun to take someone out, they just get a knife, but atleast that way the person being attacked has a chance and other people are unlikely to be hurt aswell.
jord
Member
+2,382|7126|The North, beyond the wall.
I'm not an expert on laws but aren't we allowed guns in England?

I'm pretty sure you can have Shotguns and Bolt action rifles.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,993|7080|949

topal63 wrote:

Cougar wrote:

You guys are missing the point.  Regulating gun control wouldn't stop violent crimes such as this.  If someone wants to shoot up a school and can't buy a gun legally, they would just go buy one illegally.

The type of people who do shit like this don't care about gun laws.  Having legal firearms sales just makes it easier to track where the gun came from and who bought it once a crime has been committed.
Ditto... it really would just create a black market, then we would have to fund orginizations to fight the crime associated with black market gun sales.
That is why you regulate the owners, dealers, and manufacturers.  We can put GPS in a car, but not in a weapon?  Heavy fines for gun owners who sell illegally.  And heavy enforcement by the law.

Regulation put in place is not working.  That's pretty obvious, right?  I could go into a store here (Cali, one of the states with strict gun laws) and buy 10 handguns from 10 different shops, with nothing but a paper trail.  True, I could be a collector.  And if I was, I would have no problem with monthly/semiannual/annual visits to my home to ensure that as a collector I am storing and using these guns in a safe manner.  I could also be someone who is buying guns for another person to sell on the black market.  And all there is is a paper trail.  By the time they find the shell casings, trace the gun back to the shop, then trace it to me, that gun has already been used in another shooting across the country.

There is a problem with our regulation.  But you get the wackos at the NRA who say that any type of legislation is bad legislation.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-04-17 10:05:21)

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