iamangry wrote:1. Individuals do what they want. If they want to use gay as a pejorative, thats their choice. Just like I can legally call a black man a nigger to his face. I wouldn't, because I like living, but that's not the point. To say that violates a gay man's rights is ridiculous.
Of course that's ridiculous. But I didn't just talk about slurs did I? I talked about assault and murder and attempting to codify discrimination and bigotry into our laws. I talked about how people in this country take it as a matter of course to refer to homosexuals as sick deviants and constantly portray them as such.
iamangry wrote:Unless the government is killing them or assaulting their rights, or if the people in general were assaulting their rights, I don't see how you can call them oppressed. There are no sexuality discriminating rights in this country. You're a guy and you want to be married? Marry a woman. A straight man can't marry a straight man, so how is a gay man's rights assaulted if he can't marry a gay man. Love isn't part of the law buddy.
I see, so because they have the right to make the same choices as you and only
the same choices as you, their rights aren't infringed? How the fuck does that work? Shit, how does anybody even manage to seriously arrive at that conclusion? And whether you like it or not, I'll point out that a few decades ago, I could probably find some fuckwit telling people "Blacks are free to marry other blacks, they're not oppressed if they can't marry whites. Love isn't part of the law buddy.".
iamangry wrote:2. Fuck you sir. You don't know what I've been through, so don't you dare presume to think you do. Maybe I'll start a thread one day about how I'm persecuted, when I'm ready to be laughed out of this forum because almost EVERYONE persecutes for what I'm "guilty" of (Note: for those of you wondering, its nothing sexual in nature).
Awwwww, should we have a big pity party for iamangry, because the persecution he's
subject to is the most awful special persecution in the world? Tell you what, sir
, if the persecution you experience lends you no insight into the plight of others who, like yourself, are treated like shit because of something about you that is an integral part of who you are, if it does not give you a window into the world of other people who are trod under by society for no good godsdamn reason, then I don't have an ounce of sympathy for you. I have a pretty good idea what it is you're speaking of. I'm also pretty sure that people aren't banned from marrying, adopting children, assaulted or murdered for it. That doesn't mean you or anyone like you deserves to be treated like shit, but you've ironically managed to find the other position that deprives you of the support of other people, that being "My oppression is worse because (insert reason here)". You know what, pal? I get treated like dirt constantly for my appearance. People look at me with suspicion. Sometimes I get hassled by the cops. Employers don't think I'm competent. I know for a fact that all of it would go away if I changed how I dress, cut my hair, covered up my tattoos. However unlike you, that doesn't make me say "Oh you homosexuals, if only you'd behave like society says you should, you know, the society that says you're all sick filthy deviants, then people would treat you better.". It makes me understand that someone like me, I have it easy. I can make some simple alterations to my appearance and I'd never have another problem again. Other people don't have easy options like that. So not only do I not take the easy way out, I damn sure don't demand that other people make radical changes to their life when I don't have to do the same.
iamangry wrote:3. I can safely say I've never seen two people "dry humping" in public. Ever. If I saw two gay guys dry humping in public I wouldn't be offended. I would be offended if they clogged a major thoroughfare with a thousand of them dry humping. Then again, I'd be offended if a bunch of straight people did that too. Only thing is, straight people don't do that. Again, you can't force people to like you. If someone at work assaults you because you're gay, that's his choice. That's part of your battle with the common ignorant man. What I tried to say previously was that you don't win that sort of battle by flaunting your differences in their faces.
So there's no difference between a permit-holding parade on a planned route and "they clogged a major thoroughfare with a thousand of them dry humping", gotcha. Because that's all a pride parade is really, especially if you're talking out your ass because your only experiences with one are what you hear second-hand from people who want to shove homosexuals right back in the closet and aren't above lying to accomplish that goal. As far as the "battle with the common ignorant man", you don't win that by following the advice of the common ignorant man. The common ignorant man considers "flaunting your differences in our faces" as an acceptable definition for "you exist".
iamangry wrote:We are a pretty tolerant people when not antagonized.
Sure, just ask the Africans, Native Americans and oh yeah the homosexuals too. This country was amazingly tolerant of all those groups. As long as they knew their place and didn't do things to upset the common ignorant man.
iamangry wrote:I don't mean conformity by the numbers- clones and such. I mean conformity by letting your differences show themselves, and being who you are, just like anyone else.
Now you're just being confusing. So they can let their differences show themselves and be who they are, but only if it's within comfortable guidelines set by the common ignorant man?
iamangry wrote:That's how you gain acceptance from other individuals. If they cannot communicate comfortably with you, they will not like you. That's just the way people are right now, hopefully one day we move past that.
We'll never move past it as long as people excuse it.
iamangry wrote:I think most in America have.
in America have. Most? I'd believe that if people in Oregon hadn't listened to a nutjob religious fanatic who claims that American courts have no jurisdiction over him because they fly a military flag in courtooms when he said that homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to marry because it would destroy the foundation of marriage in America.
iamangry wrote:I don't have a problem with drag queens, transsexuals, gays, lesbians... I'm friends with people from all these disciplines, because they have good personalities and are down to earth.
Do your friends know that you don't consider any of their rights to be infringed on? Do you tell any of them, if any of them express frustration at not being able to legally marry, that "Love isn't part of the law"? Do you tell them that they need to act more "normal" if they want to be accepted?
iamangry wrote:I did meet a gay guy who was flamboyant about being gay, and tried to make me gay several times.
Obviously he's an idiot, since he couldn't make you gay anymore than he could make you a mailbox.
iamangry wrote:I was not friends with him because he was off in ass-rail land. He was rude, crude, stupid, and impossible to be comfortable around (because he was a groper ... and he thought the sun was mostly iron because he read it on a website on the internet ).
Jesus Tapdancing Raptor Christ, are you saying that you met one idiot and you're allowing his
behavior to override any experiences you've had with the friends you previously mentioned? Seriously man, think about that for a minute will you?
iamangry wrote:All I was trying to say was that you don't get accepted by showing how your different. You get accepted by making people comfortable with you. And gay parades aren't going to do that for you.
I don't know, maybe they're not worried about making people comfortable who are going to dismiss them out of hand at first glance anyway. I know I'm not terribly concerned about that. I do think you're missing the point of the pride parades though. It's not about "Please, please like us and accept us!". It's about people saying "This is who I am. I like who I am. It's okay for me to be who I am. It's okay for you to be who you are too, without fear.". Like many other things in the world, it ain't about you man. It's people who've lived through some serious shit and other people made bold by their example. It's people who don't want to spend the rest of their lives dominated by fear and so they take one single solitary day out of each year and let go. It's people who are what they are and feel, rightly so, that they don't need to spend their entire span on this planet behaving in a fashion meant to pacify people who fucking hate them. That's why they call it "Pride" and not "Subservience".