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Topic closed

2005-12-07 13:37:29
nzjafa
Member
+2|6757
i know that i was told to cool it, and that this will probably get me banned, but i want to reply. you guys dont know the full story about me, probably don't want to. but anyway i felt i should reply, so maybe you know where i'm coming from.

chitlin wrote:

necro'ing ? whats that mean ? ill pick the new fight !

i say what i'm taught. in school, we are taught that americans are idiots.
hah somehow i really doubt your schoolbooks or teachers have it in thier lessons .. today children were going to talk about how stupid americans are.. i have yet to get a good response to this but ..how do you feel being dominated and told what to do by idiots ? i mean your country is so much smarter and better why dont you change this ?

im not a big fan of bush and i will certainly concede that hes not the best speaker ..hes really fun to make fun of.. but he went to yale became a millionaire and president ..so how stupid can he really be ? what have you done that makes you so much smarter? its really easy for assholes to sit on thier couch and be judgemental.

i almost want to agree with you on the whole 9/11 aspect. i feel sorry for the families who lost thier loved ones in 9/11 but it has definately been blown out of proportion. however iraq has nothing to do with 9/11. i cant help but think that iraqi's prefer the 30-50 thousand dead in 3 years, while being sad, not as bad as the miilions of kurds and others that died and were imprisioned and tortured under saddam.

and you might have heard of the pacific war .. where imperial japan was right on your doorstep ..i dont think guadalcanal new guinea or thailand and many other had oil or gold but japan invaded them anyhow ..so yeah you being under americas blanket might be the reason you are alive today ^^ maybe your grandfather would have been killed by a jap ? oh it was a good thing we were there so that didnt happen. it is pretty cool how americans give thier lives so that you can be a little judgmental prick for no reason ..

i think if iraq becomes a successfull democracy and brings some peace and civility to the middle east thatd be good right ?
i'm persain. it was war that caused us to flee iran. i don't know if you've ever experienced a war, and respect if you have, but if not, don't comment.

i know iraq has nothing to do with 9/11, and i never stated that. we moved to england for a week or so to gather our savings then moved to US. we lived in philidelphia for 4 years then moved in with my uncle and my cousin in new york. after we moved to NY the trade centers were hit within about 2 months. soon afterwards a policeman beat up my dad cos he was a sand nigger. what the hell good is it complaining about a racist culture, to a racist police force and court system? to the guy who said "i hate it when you talk about americans and say 'you people'", you got no idea. you wonder why so many middle-easterners turn against you? you must have a head filled with concrete.

we moved to NZ in early 2002. we have family here. and what makes you think you dominate us and tell us what to do? you told us to fight in iraq, we didn't. your ambassadors didn't like it, and told us that we didn't support freedom, but what came out of this? you guys get terror threats, england gets terror threats, australia gets terror threats... we get no terror threats. who has more freedom?

no, it isn't in our schoolbooks, you're right. because then someone would complain. but every now and then we are shown pictures from iraq, US soldiers beating people up, trashing peoples homes. people call it propaganda and yes, thats what it is, but no one minds. most embrace it. for instance in origins of WW2 topic our history teacher often compares hitler's mobilisation to what US is doing now. like the video someone else posted, fascism doesnt have to have a swastika on it and you guys seem to have a lot on common.

no, you're right, my grandpa didn't die in the pacific. thats because i didn't live here. however keep in mind that NZ contributed nearly half of its male workforce. isn't much in your terms, but thats about 75 million or so comparitively. if you lost 75 million men, your country would be crippled.

ask an iraqi. sure it was shit under saddam, but they preferred it under saddam that the US occupation. he only killed those that offended him. the US just seems to kill everyone.

Last edited by nzjafa (2005-12-07 13:48:04)

2005-12-07 13:46:45
Nyte
Legendary BF2S Veteran
+535|6744|Toronto, ON
And that is why Canada = the bwn.
Alpha as fuck.
2005-12-07 13:49:01
Mario-C
Member
+0|6734|Wellington Nz
if you are persian,whats with the maori shit?
2005-12-07 14:02:08
ronin1942
Member
+-1|6835
thats a sad an unfoutunate view of the world.your personal expriance has made you have that view and i feel your pain(i dont blame you). im an American and im not denying that my country has done horrific things in the past but to HATE like you do (or seem too by your posts) only brings more hate on you. The US is a very diverse country some times things get messed up when mixing that many cultures together I have had my share of racial conflicts being in a "mixed marriage". but if you carry that hate around with you , you blind your self from seeing the good things that come from other cultures. i dont expect to change your opinion on you vieews of us because you have only see bad things what i ask is for you to look with your own eyes at the world around you and to to listen to propaganda on either side of the fence so you can make your own choices as to what is evil and what is good .There is no such thing as a good war ,i think we all can agree on that but sometimes it is a nessesary evil. I honestly hope the rest of your life goes better than it has so far.
2005-12-07 14:04:23
dan500
Member
+57|6839
All, im gonna say is im sure admin had good reson to close it.


nzjafa wrote:

ask an iraqi. sure it was shit under saddam, but they preferred it under saddam that the US occupation. he only killed those that offended him. the US just seems to kill everyone.
I dont agree, and probs saying stuff like that might get this locked, and could get you banned.

Thats all im saying.
2005-12-07 22:29:15
nzjafa
Member
+2|6757

Mario-C wrote:

if you are persian,whats with the maori shit?
i live in NZ, and i like the sound of maori. i can change it if you want
2005-12-07 22:32:48
nzjafa
Member
+2|6757

ronin1942 wrote:

thats a sad an unfoutunate view of the world.your personal expriance has made you have that view and i feel your pain(i dont blame you). im an American and im not denying that my country has done horrific things in the past but to HATE like you do (or seem too by your posts) only brings more hate on you. The US is a very diverse country some times things get messed up when mixing that many cultures together I have had my share of racial conflicts being in a "mixed marriage". but if you carry that hate around with you , you blind your self from seeing the good things that come from other cultures. i dont expect to change your opinion on you vieews of us because you have only see bad things what i ask is for you to look with your own eyes at the world around you and to to listen to propaganda on either side of the fence so you can make your own choices as to what is evil and what is good .There is no such thing as a good war ,i think we all can agree on that but sometimes it is a nessesary evil. I honestly hope the rest of your life goes better than it has so far.
you're right. i read a few of the things people were saying, and i lost my temper.
i've met lots of nice americans in my time there. but there were also some very horrible ones, and i seemed to have the misfortune of meeting more of these.
keep in mind when i say the things americans do, i talk about the country's actions as a whole. not individual people. mostly it is reference to the government and military.
2005-12-07 22:52:53
vedds
Member
+52|6746|Christchurch New Zealand

nzjafa wrote:

you're right. i read a few of the things people were saying, and i lost my temper.
i've met lots of nice americans in my time there. but there were also some very horrible ones, and i seemed to have the misfortune of meeting more of these.
keep in mind when i say the things americans do, i talk about the country's actions as a whole. not individual people. mostly it is reference to the government and military.
Mate, not to rag on you big time but you need to realise that when you say "we" a lot of people are going to think that the rest of us NZers feel the same way.  Some of us dont.

I pesonnally know a WWII veteran who feels disgusted that we wouldnt "play our part" in Iraq. And that i feel is a disgrace for the whole country to bear. This is a man who saw his best friends die to defend liberty in france, now if he equates that and going into Iraq to give the people a right to choose how they are governed and how they l;ive their lives as the same thing, then thats good enough for this little brown flightless bird .

But mate to say that Iraqis preffered it under saddam is just crazy. Maybe giving democracy back to Iraq was not the only motive, but then im prepared to bet that there was more than one reason for the allies to go into normandy in '44 too.


maybe a deep breath and a count to ten will help when you post in future.

by the way im glad you identify as a NZer - thats what makes this country great and what IMO protects us from terror threats. we dont have an alienated populace.
2005-12-07 22:59:11
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|6766|Noizyland

Hmm, I thought you were Maori too after reading your post on indigenous people. I'm not Maori, I'm Pakeha, but I'm learning the language and interested in the culture too.

You have an interesting story to tell there nzjafa, (no reason to have you banned though bro,) I can seriously understand your views. Hell, it brings support to my dislike of some American culture and ideals. What your father experienced at the hands of that police officer is sickening no matter where you're from. I think even American's can appreciate you disliking a lot of them because of occurences like that, which happned not only to you, but a lot of people who were all totally innocent of what happned on september eleventh 2001. Even those who had lived in America a long time suffered because of the totaly unjust prejudice that erupted out of 9/11.

Myself and my family have very little war experiance. The closest would be when my Great Uncle went to Britain to fly Spitfires. He arrived too late - the war was over, so he was given a medal and sent home.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
2005-12-07 23:05:32
Miller
IT'S MILLER TIME!
+271|6747|United States of America
nzjafa wrote...
"you're right. i read a few of the things people were saying, and i lost my temper.
i've met lots of nice americans in my time there. but there were also some very horrible ones, and i seemed to have the misfortune of meeting more of these.
keep in mind when i say the things americans do, i talk about the country's actions as a whole. not individual people. mostly it is reference to the government and military."

Ok, since when has it been our choice to go into war? We have no choice! If we sit here and let terrorists do their things, this country would be rubble. Europe would be comunist and dying, and you would probably not even be here to discuss it!  Comparing the US to hitler isnt very smart either, for example, what did hitler do to any and all jews he found?  KILLED THEM! EXPERIMENTED ON THEM!  TORTURED THEM! And the japanese were worse during WW2, no offense to anyone.  Compare that to the US.  Where is anything we do horrible?  During the Gulf War, I think that was our best war.  We took over 70,000 soldiers as POW's, whereas the iraqi general took about 50 americans.  We helped our allies and left.  I think we should have nuked all people that stood in our way after that.  Then we wouldn't have to put up with all of you idiots saying that the US is the worst country in history!  If you dont want to "suffer" anymore, go kill yourself.  Thats the best way to escape.

I am hoping you have heard of the Air Marshalls gunning down the man that said he had a bomb.  We can take no chances after 9/11  Look that guy was mentally ill,ok well too bad.  Take your medicine and this wouldnt happen.  I'm glad they shot him, if they hadnt and he had really had a bomb, boom.  There goes the whole air line again.  As an american i am disgusted by what happens racially and even religiously.  In america, this is regular, it happens everywhere.  It cant be stopped, though everyone wishes it did.

Last edited by Miller (2005-12-07 23:09:52)

2005-12-07 23:11:51
vedds
Member
+52|6746|Christchurch New Zealand

Tyferra wrote:

You have an interesting story to tell there nzjafa, (no reason to have you banned though bro,) I can seriously understand your views. Hell, it brings support to my dislike of some American culture and ideals. What your father experienced at the hands of that police officer is sickening no matter where you're from. I think even American's can appreciate you disliking a lot of them because of occurences like that, which happned not only to you, but a lot of people who were all totally innocent of what happned on september eleventh 2001. Even those who had lived in America a long time suffered because of the totaly unjust prejudice that erupted out of 9/11.)
mate,

To hate all americans because of that asshole cop makes you just as racist (EDIT: Not you specifically - the theoretical you) and just as much of an asshole as that cop.

I can completely understand his reaction, BUT you cannot justify it.

[Cliche] some of the nicest people ive ever met were yanks[/cliche] and the biggest wankers were kiwis - does it mean that we are all tossers - of course not.

two wrongs dont make a right and just set in motion a third wrong.

righteo thats enough sermonising for me i think.

Last edited by vedds (2005-12-07 23:13:57)

2005-12-08 02:46:23
thinner44
Member
+1|6801
It doesn't help when all we see and hear is radical Muslims declaring a holy war against the west. These are the times we have to live in, and if I'd been an American living in NYC just after 9/11, I too would probably have been as prejudiced as your Policeman, it was and still is a very emotional time and at times of high emotions, things happen, rightly or wrongly.

Talking of prejudices and people, ordinary people, people just trying to help. Can we have our hostages back please. These are people living and working in Iraq, helping rebuild a shattered country. I don't see or hear anywhere and I mean anywhere where an Iraqi or other non westerner has been taken hostage.

nzjafa says, "what the hell good is it complaining about a racist culture, to a racist police force and court system" .... Can you see where you're going wrong here, you've called everyone racist, this statement alone will do you no favours.

I'm from the UK, we've welcomed people from all over the world to live and work here. Most do just that and integrate within a tolerant society, it's not perfect by any means, but we seem to get by. Yet some find it necessary to kill and maim in the name of their god. Can you see why there are prejudices yet... If you can't, then you are blinkered and perhaps not ready for what the world has to offer.

Peace to you all in these very difficult times.
2005-12-08 03:03:59
notorious
Nay vee, bay bee.
+1,396|6738|The United Center
i was the person who said the quote "i hate it when people talk about americans and say 'you people'".

i didnt mean it in the way that i wondered why people hated america, i already know why and to be honest, their reasons are usually jusitifed.  all i meant is that its impossible to lump 300 million people into one lump and start making generalizations and stereotypes about them.  "oh he's american so he must've voted for bush.  since he voted for bush, he must support the war."  all i'm saying is that by grouping all americans together, youre making a comment that has no ground on which to stand.  if you want to talk about americans being ignorant and not knowing whats going on, i'll agree for the most part...but making comments like that also shows ignorance.

someone once said 'patriotism isnt about supporting your president, its about supporting your country.'

i do not support george bush, but i do support the US.  this, however, doesnt mean i support the "war" in iraq.  i do not agree with the cause and do not support the war, but i support the soldiers and i'll show them respect.
2005-12-08 03:13:31
Tarasque
Member
+0|6710|Norway

nzjafa wrote:

i almost want to agree with you on the whole 9/11 aspect. i feel sorry for the families who lost thier loved ones in 9/11 but it has definately been blown out of proportion.
I repeat: "definately been blown out of proportion."

How can you use the sentence "i feel sorry for" and then move on to "been blown out of proportion." smooth!
2005-12-08 03:30:15
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|6713|Sydney, Australia

Miller wrote:

I am hoping you have heard of the Air Marshalls gunning down the man that said he had a bomb.  We can take no chances after 9/11  Look that guy was mentally ill,ok well too bad.  Take your medicine and this wouldnt happen.  I'm glad they shot him.
That comment is way out of line.


www.smh.com.au wrote:

"I did hear the lady say her husband was bi-polar and had not had his medication," Gardner said in the interview.
The mere fact that his wife was screaming this fanatically should tell the air marshalls something. And another thing...what's with the shoot to kill, not shoot to incapacitate? Why don't the marshalls have tasers or some form of non-leathal incapacitation. Maybe that would allow them to shoot now, ask later without killing some poor innocent bloke.

Just my A$0.02.
2005-12-08 03:41:50
thinner44
Member
+1|6801

mcminty wrote:

what's with the shoot to kill, not shoot to incapacitate? Why don't the marshalls have tasers or some form of non-leathal incapacitation. Maybe that would allow them to shoot now, ask later without killing some poor innocent bloke.

Just my A$0.02.
Possibly because it's not quick enough. If the air marshall suspected a true bomb threat, and there's no reason in that split second why not, then you and I both know, it takes a millisecond to detonate a bomb. Can you imagine if the AM did shoot to incapacitate and the bomber did trigger a device in that millisecond.... well no actually, it doesn't bear thinking.

We have the same policy here in the UK, execpt we had an incident where the intelligence was wrong, wrong wrong wrong, all the way down the line and an innocent man was killed... The UK police had lots of time to make a decision and they made the wrong one, the USA AM had only seconds. You'd be thanking him if he made the right one.
2005-12-08 03:52:17
pokerplaya
want to go heads up?
+11|6726|cairns australia
er cher bro
2005-12-08 03:59:55
THA
im a fucking .....well not now
+609|6762|AUS, Canberra

nzjafa wrote:

i know that i was told to cool it, and that this will probably get me banned, but i want to reply. you guys dont know the full story about me, probably don't want to. but anyway i felt i should reply, so maybe you know where i'm coming from.

chitlin wrote:

necro'ing ? whats that mean ? ill pick the new fight !

i say what i'm taught. in school, we are taught that americans are idiots.
hah somehow i really doubt your schoolbooks or teachers have it in thier lessons .. today children were going to talk about how stupid americans are.. i have yet to get a good response to this but ..how do you feel being dominated and told what to do by idiots ? i mean your country is so much smarter and better why dont you change this ?

im not a big fan of bush and i will certainly concede that hes not the best speaker ..hes really fun to make fun of.. but he went to yale became a millionaire and president ..so how stupid can he really be ? what have you done that makes you so much smarter? its really easy for assholes to sit on thier couch and be judgemental.

i almost want to agree with you on the whole 9/11 aspect. i feel sorry for the families who lost thier loved ones in 9/11 but it has definately been blown out of proportion. however iraq has nothing to do with 9/11. i cant help but think that iraqi's prefer the 30-50 thousand dead in 3 years, while being sad, not as bad as the miilions of kurds and others that died and were imprisioned and tortured under saddam.

and you might have heard of the pacific war .. where imperial japan was right on your doorstep ..i dont think guadalcanal new guinea or thailand and many other had oil or gold but japan invaded them anyhow ..so yeah you being under americas blanket might be the reason you are alive today ^^ maybe your grandfather would have been killed by a jap ? oh it was a good thing we were there so that didnt happen. it is pretty cool how americans give thier lives so that you can be a little judgmental prick for no reason ..

i think if iraq becomes a successfull democracy and brings some peace and civility to the middle east thatd be good right ?
i'm persain. it was war that caused us to flee iran. i don't know if you've ever experienced a war, and respect if you have, but if not, don't comment.

i know iraq has nothing to do with 9/11, and i never stated that. we moved to england for a week or so to gather our savings then moved to US. we lived in philidelphia for 4 years then moved in with my uncle and my cousin in new york. after we moved to NY the trade centers were hit within about 2 months. soon afterwards a policeman beat up my dad cos he was a sand nigger. what the hell good is it complaining about a racist culture, to a racist police force and court system? to the guy who said "i hate it when you talk about americans and say 'you people'", you got no idea. you wonder why so many middle-easterners turn against you? you must have a head filled with concrete.

we moved to NZ in early 2002. we have family here. and what makes you think you dominate us and tell us what to do? you told us to fight in iraq, we didn't. your ambassadors didn't like it, and told us that we didn't support freedom, but what came out of this? you guys get terror threats, england gets terror threats, australia gets terror threats... we get no terror threats. who has more freedom?

no, it isn't in our schoolbooks, you're right. because then someone would complain. but every now and then we are shown pictures from iraq, US soldiers beating people up, trashing peoples homes. people call it propaganda and yes, thats what it is, but no one minds. most embrace it. for instance in origins of WW2 topic our history teacher often compares hitler's mobilisation to what US is doing now. like the video someone else posted, fascism doesnt have to have a swastika on it and you guys seem to have a lot on common.

no, you're right, my grandpa didn't die in the pacific. thats because i didn't live here. however keep in mind that NZ contributed nearly half of its male workforce. isn't much in your terms, but thats about 75 million or so comparitively. if you lost 75 million men, your country would be crippled.

ask an iraqi. sure it was shit under saddam, but they preferred it under saddam that the US occupation. he only killed those that offended him. the US just seems to kill everyone.
hang on...wasnt supposed to be your  this your last post?
2005-12-08 04:41:19
Tarasque
Member
+0|6710|Norway
Good idea to tazer somone who's suposedly got explosives on him. Last time i checked, the trigger in most bombs are released by an elecric spike. Not to mention if he got hit by one and he had a remote trigger his fingers would cramp and most likely blow the charge.

Air marshalls do carry non lethal weapons, but you dont bring a knife to a gun fight do you? They have orders to go directly for a lethal shot in those circumstances.

How could the air marshall know that he was bi-polar? Feel sorry for the marshall, have to carry around that for the rest of his life. No winners in this scenario =/
2005-12-08 05:52:19
nzjafa
Member
+2|6757

the_heart_attack wrote:

hang on...wasnt supposed to be your  this your last post?
post, thread, whatever. you know what i mean.

ThomasMorgan wrote:

all i meant is that its impossible to lump 300 million people into one lump and start making generalizations and stereotypes about them.
i understand, and i'm sorry if i do this. it just makes me undescribably angry how hundreds of millions of people are also lumped into a stereotype too. remember the brazilian guy who was shot on the train? i've heard about maoris getting abused overseas too because they look somewhat middle eastern. it seems that in todays world if you have at all bronzed skin then you somehow hate the west.

Miller wrote:

Where is anything we do horrible?
abu ghraib? guantanamo bay? ring any bells?

anyway, i realise i've acted like a fucking idiot. my ignorance has proved i'm just as pig-headed as the people i critisized (sp). you won't hear any more crap from me.

Last edited by nzjafa (2005-12-08 05:55:51)

2005-12-08 06:01:57
nzjafa
Member
+2|6757

vedds wrote:

But mate to say that Iraqis preffered it under saddam is just crazy.



by the way im glad you identify as a NZer - thats what makes this country great and what IMO protects us from terror threats. we dont have an alienated populace.
1. isn't my opinion. this comes from iraqis. i'm not iraqi.

2. yeah, well, to date i haven't endured ONE derogeratory remark. nothing. no one's EVER given me any shit for my country of origin or what i look like. its peacful for my family so it looks like i'm here to stay, so i might as well try to fit in here early on. NZ is fortunate to have a wide middle eastern community, especialy in auckland
2005-12-08 06:04:35
AD_Kensan
Member
+7|6776

Miller wrote:

Ok, since when has it been our choice to go into war? We have no choice! If we sit here and let terrorists do their things, this country would be rubble. Europe would be comunist and dying, and you would probably not even be here to discuss it!  Comparing the US to hitler isnt very smart either, for example, what did hitler do to any and all jews he found?  KILLED THEM! EXPERIMENTED ON THEM!  TORTURED THEM! And the japanese were worse during WW2, no offense to anyone.
You say no offense but could you elaborate on that a little bit? What do you mean by the Japanese were worse than the Nazis in WWII?

Compare that to the US.  Where is anything we do horrible?
Just to name one example: Guantanamo. Do you think that's not a horrible thing? In my eyes it is quite horrible to disregard the geneva convention of human rights because they are rights that can not be stripped from you.

During the Gulf War, I think that was our best war.  We took over 70,000 soldiers as POW's, whereas the iraqi general took about 50 americans.  We helped our allies and left.  I think we should have nuked all people that stood in our way after that.  Then we wouldn't have to put up with all of you idiots saying that the US is the worst country in history!  If you dont want to "suffer" anymore, go kill yourself.  Thats the best way to escape.
It is very casual how you drop a sentence like "we should have nuked all people that stood in our way after that." Talking about atomic bombs like that is VERY disturbing to me. Obviously you have no graps at all what an atomic bomb does... also in a political sense. I don't think that people here are saying that the US is the worst country in history but they are stating their issues they have with it. I am sure that people from NZ also have issues with Australia for example. I think what angers people is that when someone say:"We are better, we don't need the rest of the world, screw you" and unfortunately there's many ways you can say express this.

I am hoping you have heard of the Air Marshalls gunning down the man that said he had a bomb.  We can take no chances after 9/11  Look that guy was mentally ill,ok well too bad.  Take your medicine and this wouldnt happen.  I'm glad they shot him, if they hadnt and he had really had a bomb, boom.  There goes the whole air line again.  As an american i am disgusted by what happens racially and even religiously.  In america, this is regular, it happens everywhere.  It cant be stopped, though everyone wishes it did.
I can only shake my head when I read this. You are glad that they shot an innocent man? This was a terrible accident and NOBODY should be happy about this.
2005-12-08 06:07:33
nzjafa
Member
+2|6757
by the way, the maori means "i'm a new zealander". of course, i'm from iran. it was thought of by my father and was a little funny at the time, although is stupid now
2005-12-08 06:14:24
hurricane2oo5
Do One Ya Mug !!!
+176|6756|mansfield
shall we all just go to sleep??
2005-12-08 13:27:41
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|6713|Sydney, Australia

Tarasque wrote:

Good idea to tazer somone who's suposedly got explosives on him. Last time i checked, the trigger in most bombs are released by an elecric spike.
Touche...

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