Atheism is illogical

2007-04-05 02:38:37

#1

righthandfork: Member; +8|6250

Hi I am new to the forum, but from what I gather many of you have strong views on religion. I believe in God because it is the only logical thing to do. This is why…

Take this simple statement:

“For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

1. It is impossible to prove this statement true.
2. It is impossible to prove this statement false.
3. This statement has to be either true or false.

Since a person can choose to believe or not to believe, and since this statement has to be either true or false, there are only four possible outcomes:

1. A person believes, the statement is true, and he attains eternal life.
2. A person believes, the statement is false, and he ceases to exist.
3. A person does not believe, the statement is true, and he is damned to hell.
4. A person does not believe, the statement is false, and he ceases to exist.

If a person cannot prove this statement false, and he is logical, then he will choose to believe because that is his only chance for a favorable outcome.

So deductive logic tells us that atheists are illogical unless they can prove that the statement above is false.

Now obviously there are other religions out there that promise eternal life and it would be just as logical to believe in them, because as long as there is a chance of a positive outcome, the choice would be considered logical. It seems the most logical choice would be to believe in as many religions as possible, so I guess I’ll have to concede that I’m not the most logical. But my only point is that choosing to believe in something that can only lead to negative outcomes is illogical:)

2007-04-05 02:40:20

#2

crimson_grunt: Shitty Disposition (apparently); +214|6672|Teesside, UK

hmm deja vu

2007-04-05 02:41:50

#3

some_random_panda: Flamesuit essential; +454|6408

Nice argument, just dig deep and duck if flamers come. I'm a Christian anyway, but...
/popcorn in microwave.

2007-04-05 02:42:01

#4

TheDarkRaven: ATG's First Disciple; +263|6642|Birmingham, UK

Reason:
Humans are not logical.
Our lives are not dictated in such a way.

2007-04-05 02:42:30

#5

notorious: Nay vee, bay bee.; +1,396|6764|The United Center

Pascal's Wager.

2007-04-05 02:43:31

#6

some_random_panda: Flamesuit essential; +454|6408

ThomasMorgan wrote:
Pascal's Wager.

?
What's Pascal's Wager?

2007-04-05 02:44:41

#7

notorious: Nay vee, bay bee.; +1,396|6764|The United Center

some_random_panda wrote:
ThomasMorgan wrote:
Pascal's Wager.
?
What's Pascal's Wager?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

Identical to the theory this new user posted.

2007-04-05 02:49:46

#8

Ty: Mass Media Casualty; +2,398|6792|Noizyland

EEEH WRONG!
The person either believes in the statement and uses his life forever following the teachings of the Bible and having very limited enjoyment of life in order to get a posible shot as a sweet as afterlife.
OR
The person does not belive in this tripe and decides to live their life to the fullest realising that it's the only one they're gonna get.

Now God is meant to be omnipotent and cool right with power of forgiveness yadda yadda right?

Now if this second person was to be wrong wouldn't a cool forgiving God give him a sweet as afterlife anyway? I mean, what kind of super-good God would let people writhe in agony for eternity when they had the omnipotent power to save them right? If he did just sit by and do nothing, (remembering always "evil prospers when good people do nothing",) then he's a fucking hypocrite, and no-one likes a hypocritical God.

I could formulate a more soliud argument but i'm fucking drunk right now.

[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon

2007-04-05 02:51:11

#9

some_random_panda: Flamesuit essential; +454|6408

Ty wrote:
EEEH WRONG!
The person either believes in the statement and uses his life forever following the teachings of the Bible and having very limited enjoyment of life in order to get a posible shot as a sweet as afterlife.
OR
The person does not belive in this tripe and decides to live their life to the fullest realising that it's the only one they're gonna get.

Now God is meant to be omnipotent and cool right with power of forgiveness yadda yadda right?

Now if this second person was to be wrong wouldn't a cool forgiving God give him a sweet as afterlife anyway? I mean, what kind of super-good God would let people writhe in agony for eternity when they had the omnipotent power to save them right? If he did just sit by and do nothing, (remembering always "evil prospers when good people do nothing",) then he's a fucking hypocrite, and no-one likes a hypocritical God.

I could formulate a more soliud argument but i'm fucking drunk right now.

Ty, go lie down for a while.

2007-04-05 02:52:37

#10

Ty: Mass Media Casualty; +2,398|6792|Noizyland

FUCK NO! END OF HALF OF SEMESTER! I HAVE NO COMMITMENTS FOR TWO WEEKS!

AAAHH HA A HAA HAAAA!!

[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon

2007-04-05 02:54:16

#11

CameronPoe: Member; +2,925|6573

Hi Weam08.

If I get some spare time later on today I am gonna take this thread down to chinatown!

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-04-05 02:55:57)

2007-04-05 02:55:48

#12

Flakturnal: Member; +21|6459|Perth,WA

Ive seen people that are trying really hard to get into this sweet afterlife thing.
Do I want to spend eternity with these people?
Give me the flames

Last edited by Flakturnal (2007-04-05 02:56:33)

2007-04-05 02:58:36

#13

superfly_cox: soup fly mod; +717|6799

If there is a god I think he will judge people based on how they live their lives, not based on whether they believe what's in a bible written by humans.

to me there is a difference between religion and god. religion is man made and has all the inherent flaws that human kind does. god is the belief that there's a supreme being out there. i can more easily come to terms with the idea of god than i can with religion.

2007-04-05 02:58:58

#14

BALTINS: ಠ_ಠ; +37|6504|Latvia

Add
5. A person believes in the false god, the statement is true, and he is damned to hell.

Anyways, today I walked past a church, I had a weird feeling.. it came out I tripped on dog shit..

2007-04-05 02:59:40

#15

neon_flux601: Member; +18|6268|Sidahnee Orstrayleeah

"because that is his only chance for a favorable outcome."

What if the athiest's idea of a favourable outcome is ceasing to exist...

Your argument is flawed - you are judging the choices of other people based on your own set of rules and expectations.

People are different to you.

Let it be.

2007-04-05 02:59:44

#16

Fenris_GreyClaw: Real Хорошо; +826|6537|Adelaide, South Australia

Using that argument is the biggest sign that someone doesn't want to argue anymore. It happens a lot around me and my fiercely atheist friend.

2007-04-05 03:00:32

#17

Braddock: Agitator; +916|6308|Éire

No religion has ever brought any hard evidence to the table that can prove the existence of their God. Not one shred of scientific proof in thousands of years ...if this ever happens then I'll be willing to sit down and consider their religious theories. When two possible sides of a scenario are equally unprovable I employ the principles of probability based on scientific evidence that is available to us in this life, otherwise you're just howling at the moon and hoping for a good harvest.

2007-04-05 03:00:48

#18

righthandfork: Member; +8|6250

On Wikipedia for "Pascal's Wager" they provide an explanation of "Atheist's Wager" which I don't understand. Can someone explain it in layman's terms for me?

2007-04-05 03:01:54

#19

Ty: Mass Media Casualty; +2,398|6792|Noizyland

Flakturnal wrote:
Ive seen people that are trying really hard to get into this sweet afterlife thing.
Do I want to spend eternity with these people?
Give me the flames

Ah ha! YES!
Some of the freakiest fucked up people I have ever met have been hardcore Christians. Not saying all Christians are like this, but no matter:
If heaven is full of these fucking nut-jobs then I'd rather go to the other place!

And superfly_cox is right too. If God is truely a cool guy worth worshipping then he'd judge fairly, not just if we folllowed rules that quite often contradicted themselves.

[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon

2007-04-05 03:04:08

#20

notorious: Nay vee, bay bee.; +1,396|6764|The United Center

righthandfork wrote:
On Wikipedia for "Pascal's Wager" they provide an explanation of "Atheist's Wager" which I don't understand. Can someone explain it in layman's terms for me?

Basically it says that instead of worrying about whether or not there is a god, you should just live your life and try to make the world a better place. If there isn't a god, then you've left your mark on the world. If there is a god, he will most likely judge you on how you lived your life, not if you believed in him or not.

2007-04-05 03:09:45

#21

Bubbalo: The Lizzard; +541|6579

So how do I choose between God and Allah? According to you, I'm damned either way.

Besides which, I can not believe in God and still believe in an afterlife.\

Edit: When I posted this me sig read "Jesus loves Bubbalo".

Last edited by Bubbalo (2007-04-05 03:10:39)

2007-04-05 03:10:21

#22

neon_flux601: Member; +18|6268|Sidahnee Orstrayleeah

ThomasMorgan wrote:
righthandfork wrote:
On Wikipedia for "Pascal's Wager" they provide an explanation of "Atheist's Wager" which I don't understand. Can someone explain it in layman's terms for me?
Basically it says that instead of worrying about whether or not there is a god, you should just live your life and try to make the world a better place. If there isn't a god, then you've left your mark on the world. If there is a god, he will most likely judge you on how you lived your life, not if you believed in him or not.

Or combine a bit of column A and a bit of column B and believe in 'God' (but not the bible or church) and do good things in the hope that the outright rejection of 'God' that would be presented with the Atheists Wager won't affect you when it comes to having the ultimate job interview with St Peter.

Or be damned for questioning God as some Christians will tell you.

2007-04-05 03:11:14

#23

CameronPoe: Member; +2,925|6573

I only deal with things that are tangible. There's your logic for you. Next.

2007-04-05 03:12:11

#24

neon_flux601: Member; +18|6268|Sidahnee Orstrayleeah

CameronPoe wrote:
I only deal with things that are tangible. There's your logic for you. Next.

Oh but what indeed is tangible...

Bring on the existential philosophers...

2007-04-05 03:18:27

#25

righthandfork: Member; +8|6250

ThomasMorgan wrote:
righthandfork wrote:
On Wikipedia for "Pascal's Wager" they provide an explanation of "Atheist's Wager" which I don't understand. Can someone explain it in layman's terms for me?
Basically it says that instead of worrying about whether or not there is a god, you should just live your life and try to make the world a better place. If there isn't a god, then you've left your mark on the world. If there is a god, he will most likely judge you on how you lived your life, not if you believed in him or not.

Why would it matter if you left your mark on the world if you no longer exist?

BF2S Forums Atheism is illogical

ThomasMorgan wrote:

some_random_panda wrote:

ThomasMorgan wrote:

Ty wrote:

Flakturnal wrote:

righthandfork wrote:

ThomasMorgan wrote:

righthandfork wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

ThomasMorgan wrote:

righthandfork wrote:

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