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2007-04-03 19:32:17
Superglueman
Member
+21|6808|The Great South Land
Conservatives maintain the "selected rich" at the top of the food chain, whilst constantly confusing and subdueing the rest of the population.

"If your not with us, your against us"...... "if your poor its your fault"

....these ideals/lines of thought have become so common from America since the mid 90's, but exploded when 9/11 happened...

As the US widened and violently enforced the gap between rich and poor(worldwide aswell as in the US), ideology had to be invented to supress the questions/suspicions of the poor, and to focus the blame squarely back on the poor and needy...so as to avert suspision off the rich for using Nazi-like ideology.

A country that enforces a "self-righteous out of touch" mentality could, one day, very well justify gassing its "less desired" citizens...
No?...
...its already been said that if people are living in poverty,"its their fault", and if their not with america, "their against"...sounds like someone's painting a nasty picture of people in order to dehumanize them...

And am i the only one to notice how US culture prides itself on its beauty and superiority, but continually justifies intolerance and hate towards the needy and un-beautiful?

Familiar?

Germany 1939 ideology...Nazi era.

Deny all u want, but history will show the truth...
2007-04-03 19:33:20
Mr.Pieeater
Member
+116|7072|Cherry Pie

CameronPoe wrote:

Mr.Pieeater wrote:

This is a common thing for Liberals to say; however, people like CameronPoe are probably living nice normal middle-class lives and think they know where poor people are coming from.  CameronPoe doesn't know about poor people and niether do I, but the United States offers ANYONE the chance to make a great life for themselves and move up in the social structure of the States.  Anyone who says that society is keeping the poor people poor is just placing the blame somewhere where it should not be.  The blame is on the person who is poor, because choices they have made decisions in life that have put them in that place.  Take Oprah Winfrey (spelling) for example, she was very poor and now look at her!!!  Just the simple fact that she did that proves Mr. CameronPoe wrong.  Its not about the fact that Oprah is a very successful example, but its the fact that it is possible to do that.  That point can't be argued against by anyone who has reason in thier minds.

Note to CameronPoe:  Since you want to help poor people, what kind of charities have you donated money to??  Do you donate on a regular basis?  Do you give homeless people on the side of the street money?  Do you volunteer at food banks?  What do you do to help get the poor out of poverty?  Give me a list buddy...  Go ahead, I'm waiting...
LOL. My father had to make ends meet in rural Donegal in the 1980s when Ireland was the equivalent of Bosnia. Most of the time he collected dole and tried to grab whatever work he could when there was enormous competition around him and everyone was desperate. A huge amount of people left the country for the USA and the UK. There were no banks handing out loans to entrepreneurs. Nobody was gonna give anyone in Donegal a mortgage.

The taxes of those that did have work paid for my family's medical card and dental expenses. The policy of my government of abolishing university fees and providing subsistence grants to those below a certain income level allowed me to jump from a world of survival to a world of comfort. Thankfully today my parents also enjoy this level of comfort. Don't give me your fucking Oprah stories sonny jim. If you see how barren an area I come from, how bad an economic blackspot it was, how desperate a situation existed there (one of the highest rates of suicide in western Europe) then you'd certainly have a very different opinion of my background.

For the record the two charities part of my salary goes to (by direct debit) are the following:

- ElectricAid   ...    http://www.esb.ie/main/about_esb/about_electric_aid.jsp

- Goal  ...   http://www.goal.ie/

Please give generously if you think you can spare any. I also give generously to any causes at work or in the street that I feel warrant some of my cash.

Welcome to Donegal:

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/3664/errigal4ta6.jpg
If that truly did happen with your family then perhaps you should feel proud of being where you are today and moving away from that.  I'm sure your father worked very hard to get you to where you were today, which is what the poor people in the world should be doing.  Hard work = success in life.  A good life is almost never a handout from the government. 

I respect your father very much so.
2007-04-03 19:42:55
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,073|7220|PNW

Superglueman wrote:

Conservatives maintain the "selected rich" at the top of the food chain, whilst constantly confusing and subdueing the rest of the population.
That's why people like Kerry and Gore live big while telling everyone else to conserve. Find something else for a header.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2007-04-03 19:44:12)

2007-04-03 19:43:18
Ridir
Semper Fi!
+48|7212
Also the stop gap measures used by the "left" should be just that.  A stop gap measure used when it is needed to give the economy the kick start needed to get it back in shape.  Once the economy is back rolling it should not be the role of the government to have to provide for the people everything they need, it would be too taxing on the people that do work and the government taking that much money in is generally going to be corrupt in the money deptarment.
2007-04-03 19:47:03
=NHB=Shadow
hi
+322|6814|California
Or people will cry and whine about things that shouldn't matter.
2007-04-03 20:03:18
Mitch
16 more years
+877|6973|South Florida

Nicholas Langdon wrote:

Serious question.

I would say I am a liberal, and have trouble understanding were some of the more hardcore conservatives are comming from in their posts somtimes. Just dont have the same frame of mind I guess...
And i can't see where most liberals are coming from. See, I believe in keeping America free, and i believe that we should focus on the truely important things in the world, rather then made up things like Global Warming (leave it at that!). Now, I consider myself part libertarian too (Note: NOT LIBERAL! The term libertarianism usually refers to a political philosophy maintaining that all persons are the absolute owners of their own lives, and should be free to do whatever they wish with their persons or property, as long as they allow others the same liberty. More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian)
I believe in some government, but not a lot. When i turn on the news and see "Online gambling banned in the U.S." It really pisses me off.

Another thing i believe in is the Constitution. Do you believe in the Constitution? Then why would you allow the liberals to take away your second amendment? The right to bear arms! Our founding fathers were very detailed in making sure those rights could never be taken away, yet the liberals try and try to claim "It only applies to a militia (like the army/police)" Bullshit.

Also, i find, liberals tend to be sheep, and do what everyone else does without thinking (if they did think, they would realise that a citizen with a gun is more intimadating to a criminal then an unarmed citizen. Thats why gun control raises crime rates.)

The end
15 more years! 15 more years!
2007-04-03 20:07:39
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,073|7220|PNW

Dezerteagal5 wrote:

and i believe that we should focus on the truely important things in the world, rather then made up things like Global Warming (leave it at that!).
You should've left it at "made up things." Sticking a "leave it at that" tag isn't going to prevent someone from criticizing your opinion about global warming.
2007-04-03 20:33:10
Ridir
Semper Fi!
+48|7212
The Offical website of the libertarian party. http://www.lp.org/issues/platform_all.shtml

edit: spelling mistake

Last edited by Ridir (2007-04-03 21:29:36)

2007-04-03 21:21:13
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,073|7220|PNW

Ridir wrote:

The Offical website of the libertain party. http://www.lp.org/issues/platform_all.shtml
I'd take the libertarian party more seriously if some of their candidates were a bit more professional. Submitting qualifications and agenda all in bold and underline and providing a drivers license photo is silly.
2007-04-03 21:28:59
Ridir
Semper Fi!
+48|7212
I never said that the candidates were good, just that the ideas are good.  If I ever run for office it will more then likely be under the a party similar to the libertarian party.
2007-04-04 02:54:10
-Whiteroom-
Pineapplewhat
+572|7107|BC, Canada

ATG wrote:

m3thod wrote:

i didn't know liberal was used an insult until i came here!

Must be an American thing.
Your not a American style liberal; more a Soviet style communist leaning zealot, imo.
I think this could be one of the reasons im not getting it so well, the way american cons and libs(at least on this site) seems much more extreme than what im used to. It could be the amount of power the US has makes people more emotional about it, but its definately more potent.

Also its seems alot of the posts reflect the bashing shown by the parties in their campaining, more than their actual beliefs on the issue at hand. This seems to lead to alot of "I'll defend my stance to death" debates rather that people actually hearing what each side has to say.

Last edited by Nicholas Langdon (2007-04-04 02:55:01)

2007-04-04 02:59:43
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7123|Canberra, AUS
I SHOULD be a conservative. I agree wholeheartedly with what conservatism SHOULD HAVE been, but sheer stupidity has forced me to the left side of politics.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2007-04-04 03:05:49
-Whiteroom-
Pineapplewhat
+572|7107|BC, Canada

pirana6 wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

-have no support for our troops (because refusing to support an unjust war where the fights are politicized directly correlates to wanting the troops to die).
Oh. Dear. God.
You deserve nothing less than death.
I'm liberal and the war is (was) a bad idea but that's too late now. I support the troops not the war. I want them dead? FUCK YOU.
please figure out sarcasm, then post somthing that goes with the thread.
2007-04-04 03:16:04
-Whiteroom-
Pineapplewhat
+572|7107|BC, Canada

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Nicholas Langdon wrote:

Feel free to post a "give me a reason to be liberal" thread if this goes well but please do not post this as a response in this thread.

Edit: also if you have one(reason), Why did you become or why are you conservative?

nic
"Give me a reason to be a liberal" is a reasonable counter-post, and it does fit within this thread. I am a conservative liberal. By definition, both frames of mind have worthy aspects, and both should be practiced simultaneously in our society. But the political parties who have snatched up these definitions for their own ends do not really mirror them. Therefore, I vote for individuals, rather than letters. Read their messages, choose the one I like the most, and hope they're being honest.
of course it is a reasnable counter post, I just felt it would derail the thread and promote the usual bashing I see here, therefore I felt It would be better to have it in a different thread. Also there is the obvious sarcastic unhelpful responses that would come of it.

Directed at all posts:
I knew when I posted this that a moderate attitude and issue to issue way of dealing with things is the best way of going about your business.

That being said, every thread (D&ST) seems to fall into lib-con bashing or sides, not issue to issue ideals. So I felt it was quite appropriate to ask the beliefs of what is and not what is best. I guess I believe that you have to know about whats around you to deal with it in a better manner. Saying moderation is best dosent make it happen unless everyone first understands that it could be the best way.
2007-04-04 03:18:33
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7123|Canberra, AUS
rather then made up things like Global Warming (leave it at that!).
The destruction of the standard of lives of your children isn't important to you?

Well, each to his own, I guess. It sure as hell is important to me.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2007-04-04 03:24:18
-Whiteroom-
Pineapplewhat
+572|7107|BC, Canada

lowing wrote:

Do not sway to conservatism, it is hard life. We have personal responsibilities to deal with. We have social programs we have to pay for. We have a country to defend. To do all of this, we need to have self motivation, drive, and ambition. Take my word for it, be a liberal and vote democrat. Telling others what THEY should do with their money, is a lot easier than getting a job, and earning your own.
This is a prime example of where I am comming from with starting this thread. See the blatent lack of being able to consider anything but his own side, and turning what should be a post showing the good side of being conservative, into just another chance to liberal bash, without being provoked to at that.

Yes I see the sarcasm there but it was a very poor attempt and does nothing positive for anyones veiws of conservatives.
2007-04-04 03:37:22
-Whiteroom-
Pineapplewhat
+572|7107|BC, Canada

Dezerteagal5 wrote:

Nicholas Langdon wrote:

Serious question.

I would say I am a liberal, and have trouble understanding were some of the more hardcore conservatives are comming from in their posts somtimes. Just dont have the same frame of mind I guess...
And i can't see where most liberals are coming from. See, I believe in keeping America free, and i believe that we should focus on the truely important things in the world, rather then made up things like Global Warming (leave it at that!). Now, I consider myself part libertarian too (Note: NOT LIBERAL! The term libertarianism usually refers to a political philosophy maintaining that all persons are the absolute owners of their own lives, and should be free to do whatever they wish with their persons or property, as long as they allow others the same liberty. More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian)
I believe in some government, but not a lot. When i turn on the news and see "Online gambling banned in the U.S." It really pisses me off.

Another thing i believe in is the Constitution. Do you believe in the Constitution? Then why would you allow the liberals to take away your second amendment? The right to bear arms! Our founding fathers were very detailed in making sure those rights could never be taken away, yet the liberals try and try to claim "It only applies to a militia (like the army/police)" Bullshit.

Also, i find, liberals tend to be sheep, and do what everyone else does without thinking (if they did think, they would realise that a citizen with a gun is more intimadating to a criminal then an unarmed citizen. Thats why gun control raises crime rates.)

The end
Actually, no, I do not believe in the constatution, but that could be because I'm canadian.
Also I'm pretty over the right to bear arms argument, Its a shallow argument and of cousre it should be open to revision, we learn more as time goes on and should take this into account with any law, ammendment, constatution, etc.  But that is for one of the many gun threads here, not this one.

the sheep argument doesnt work either, it goes both ways, which is humans in general go with the popular concensis.



Also directed at all:
I have not read this whole thread in detail, theres alot and I have little time.

But one of the main points of contention seems to be social services( welfare, healtcare, etc,)
And the popular views seem to be either have it or not.

Has anyone considered (obviously) a revised welfare plan that is much stricter and more regulated.
and maybe a combined type of health care, where you could get free health care(no choice in doctors), but if you wanted to go to a particular doctor or specialist, you could pay for that.

Obviously its not that simple, and would have to be well thought out, but I never expected to solve these major issues with a simple thread, just try to understand them more from all sides.
2007-04-04 08:12:14
Mitch
16 more years
+877|6973|South Florida

Nicholas Langdon wrote:

ATG wrote:

m3thod wrote:

i didn't know liberal was used an insult until i came here!

Must be an American thing.
Your not a American style liberal; more a Soviet style communist leaning zealot, imo.
I think this could be one of the reasons im not getting it so well, the way american cons and libs(at least on this site) seems much more extreme than what im used to. It could be the amount of power the US has makes people more emotional about it, but its definately more potent.
Well, America is the greatest and most advanced country to ever live, of coarse ill fight to the death to defend it from liberals who want to take away our freedoms.
15 more years! 15 more years!
2007-04-04 08:15:10
Mitch
16 more years
+877|6973|South Florida

Nicholas Langdon wrote:

Dezerteagal5 wrote:

Nicholas Langdon wrote:

Serious question.

I would say I am a liberal, and have trouble understanding were some of the more hardcore conservatives are comming from in their posts somtimes. Just dont have the same frame of mind I guess...
And i can't see where most liberals are coming from. See, I believe in keeping America free, and i believe that we should focus on the truely important things in the world, rather then made up things like Global Warming (leave it at that!). Now, I consider myself part libertarian too (Note: NOT LIBERAL! The term libertarianism usually refers to a political philosophy maintaining that all persons are the absolute owners of their own lives, and should be free to do whatever they wish with their persons or property, as long as they allow others the same liberty. More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian)
I believe in some government, but not a lot. When i turn on the news and see "Online gambling banned in the U.S." It really pisses me off.

Another thing i believe in is the Constitution. Do you believe in the Constitution? Then why would you allow the liberals to take away your second amendment? The right to bear arms! Our founding fathers were very detailed in making sure those rights could never be taken away, yet the liberals try and try to claim "It only applies to a militia (like the army/police)" Bullshit.

Also, i find, liberals tend to be sheep, and do what everyone else does without thinking (if they did think, they would realise that a citizen with a gun is more intimadating to a criminal then an unarmed citizen. Thats why gun control raises crime rates.)

The end
Actually, no, I do not believe in the constatution, but that could be because I'm canadian.
Oh right, your a cute little socialist. No wonder you dont know freedom and hard work cause the GOVERNMENT GIVES YOU EVERYTHING! Sure hope you dont have to see a doctor in the next 6 months cause of that growth, by the time they get you in itll be cancer, dont worry.
15 more years! 15 more years!
2007-04-04 08:15:40
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|7110|USA

CoronadoSEAL wrote:

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

You can get rich and stay rich and have no accountability for any mistakes you make or any people you harm   on your way to being rich. Then, once your rich, you can make fun of the "lazy" people who aren't rich.

Then once your really really rich, you can shape laws and government departments to make you even more rich.

Then once your really really really rich, you can buy your son a White House.
nobody said it would be easy, and it is impossible for everyone to have a perfectly equal chance, so stop bitching and try to make something of yourself.
Im doing fine thanks.
2007-04-04 08:33:01
Mitch
16 more years
+877|6973|South Florida

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

CoronadoSEAL wrote:

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

You can get rich and stay rich and have no accountability for any mistakes you make or any people you harm   on your way to being rich. Then, once your rich, you can make fun of the "lazy" people who aren't rich.

Then once your really really rich, you can shape laws and government departments to make you even more rich.

Then once your really really really rich, you can buy your son a White House.
nobody said it would be easy, and it is impossible for everyone to have a perfectly equal chance, so stop bitching and try to make something of yourself.
Im doing fine thanks.
Ha funny. So whats wrong with getting rich? Working hard and striving to do your best in life to have money to have fun? Your second sentance is complete bullshit, it's america and everyone has an equal chance at getting rich, republicans in general dont make fun of 'lazy' people who arent rich, if ANYONE i would think liberals would make fun of lazy poor people, because most republicans were raised with respect and manners. Look at a few of the richest people in the world
Bill Gates: A republican man who put years of hard work in for himself, didn't beg for shit from the government, and now hes the richest man in the world.
Donald Trump: Same story different career.
I find a lot of rich people write books about how to become rich and point out there mistakes so you don't have to make them.

Last edited by Dezerteagal5 (2007-04-04 08:36:16)

15 more years! 15 more years!
2007-04-04 08:54:54
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|7110|USA

Dezerteagal5 wrote:

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

CoronadoSEAL wrote:


nobody said it would be easy, and it is impossible for everyone to have a perfectly equal chance, so stop bitching and try to make something of yourself.
Im doing fine thanks.
Ha funny. So whats wrong with getting rich? Working hard and striving to do your best in life to have money to have fun? Your second sentance is complete bullshit, it's america and everyone has an equal chance at getting rich, republicans in general dont make fun of 'lazy' people who arent rich, if ANYONE i would think liberals would make fun of lazy poor people, because most republicans were raised with respect and manners. Look at a few of the richest people in the world
Bill Gates: A republican man who put years of hard work in for himself, didn't beg for shit from the government, and now hes the richest man in the world.
Donald Trump: Same story different career.
I find a lot of rich people write books about how to become rich and point out there mistakes so you don't have to make them.
Im restraining from tearing this apart.

You'd cry if you saw this liberals 401k statement.

It really sucks I wan't raised with respect and manners. I never knew that. Thank you anonymous guy from the interwebs.
2007-04-04 08:57:17
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7099|USA

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

Dezerteagal5 wrote:

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:


Im doing fine thanks.
Ha funny. So whats wrong with getting rich? Working hard and striving to do your best in life to have money to have fun? Your second sentance is complete bullshit, it's america and everyone has an equal chance at getting rich, republicans in general dont make fun of 'lazy' people who arent rich, if ANYONE i would think liberals would make fun of lazy poor people, because most republicans were raised with respect and manners. Look at a few of the richest people in the world
Bill Gates: A republican man who put years of hard work in for himself, didn't beg for shit from the government, and now hes the richest man in the world.
Donald Trump: Same story different career.
I find a lot of rich people write books about how to become rich and point out there mistakes so you don't have to make them.
Im restraining from tearing this apart.

You'd cry if you saw this liberals 401k statement.

It really sucks I wan't raised with respect and manners. I never knew that. Thank you anonymous guy from the interwebs.
What are you doing with a fat retirement account??? Shouldn't you be funding social programs and someone else's retirement with that money??
2007-04-04 09:16:45
doublestuforeo
Banned
+9|6681
Less government.  Less taxes, fewer laws, less intrusion, less welfare.

It goes hand in hand with capitalism and survival of the fittest.  It may seem heartless, but in the end, it is better for everyone... even the poor.  e.g. compare the poor in America to the poor in Brazil.
2007-04-04 10:00:24
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|7110|USA

lowing wrote:

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

Dezerteagal5 wrote:


Ha funny. So whats wrong with getting rich? Working hard and striving to do your best in life to have money to have fun? Your second sentance is complete bullshit, it's america and everyone has an equal chance at getting rich, republicans in general dont make fun of 'lazy' people who arent rich, if ANYONE i would think liberals would make fun of lazy poor people, because most republicans were raised with respect and manners. Look at a few of the richest people in the world
Bill Gates: A republican man who put years of hard work in for himself, didn't beg for shit from the government, and now hes the richest man in the world.
Donald Trump: Same story different career.
I find a lot of rich people write books about how to become rich and point out there mistakes so you don't have to make them.
Im restraining from tearing this apart.

You'd cry if you saw this liberals 401k statement.

It really sucks I wan't raised with respect and manners. I never knew that. Thank you anonymous guy from the interwebs.
What are you doing with a fat retirement account??? Shouldn't you be funding social programs and someone else's retirement with that money??
LOL! Thats where my taxes go I assume. Either that or to Iraq on big pallets.  401K is for me.

 

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