ATG
Banned
+5,233|6958|Global Command
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id … _article=1


The downside is that the EPA is likely to be swayed by the-sky-is-falling crowd and act in a arbitrary manner wielding the heavy hammer of the Federal government.

Your all aware of my feelings on global warming.
First, I am against pollution, obviously. Frankly, it's one of the major reasons I do not wish for another war in the ME right now.


     One point though, I have never been able to get you guys to understand:
https://geo.phys.uit.no/articl/magnorpe.gif

Long before the esteemed members here started spouting that it was scientific " fact " that global warming is a man made thing, cartographers and map makers informed us that the poles were drifting.

To put it simply:

https://www.wobber.org/tory/Equator.JPG

Tory here, may in fact not be standing on the equator anymore. When the poles drift, that arid brown line on your globe that is the equator will drift also.
Thats one reason why where I live, we are enduring the driest winter in 130 years.
https://i12.tinypic.com/4htdq8l.jpg
https://i5.tinypic.com/4ccb1as.jpg


Historical evidence reveals examples of rapid climate change during various times throughout history. Any number of things could cause rapid, devastating climate change such as: volcanos, impacts or even undersea landslides.

Landslides?   http://archives.cnn.com/2000/NATURE/12/ … amis.reut/

The Gulf Stream is what basically keeps the Earths climate in balance. It is fueled by warm water ( heavier in salt ) meeting cold water from the north. The warmer salt water is also denser, and is pulled down into the abyss, creating the climate engine that is the Gulf Stream. An undersea landslide could disrupt this current flow and instigate another glacial period. Geology records indicate these changes come hard and fast, taking decades and not centuries, and that they happen about every ten thousand years, and that the last one was about 12500 years ago.

Basically we are all doomed, and the only real question is how you spend your remaining days.
russ)=spetsnaz
Banned
+131|6885|the guy in the hind on gator
i agree with whatever u posted
PureFodder
Member
+225|6714
Just so you all know, the poles don't just drift, they entirely swap round roughly once per 200,000 years. It begins a gradual decrese in the strength of Earths magnetic field. Small patches of reversed polarity appear, these patches continue to grow giving the globe multiple north and south poles for a few decades until the entire polatiry of the globe relatively quickly flips over. North becomes South.

Oh, and in case your wondering, the last one was 780,000 years ago, the magnetic field strength of the Earth has been dropping recently and small regions of reversed polarity have been measured.

Here's the first article I could find on it.
http://www.worldpress.org/Europe/591.cfm

Last edited by PureFodder (2007-04-02 20:10:16)

PureFodder
Member
+225|6714

ATG wrote:

Fen321 wrote:

How does the fact that poles drift some how relate to Global Warming not being cause via man?

Climate change is natural there is no denying that -- some how thinking we don't impact the system of which we are a part in is simply mad.
Your first sentence negates the others.

My handy graph explaining the location of the equator should say lots.
Erm, one question, what do you think the relationship between the position of the Earths equator and the temperature of where you live has? You do know that the position of the equator is just a magnetic phenominon. The amount of sunlight getting to the various regions on the Earth isn't in any way determined by the magnetic equator, but by the Earths angle towards the sun, which isn't changing.

Your handy graph explaining the location of the equator says lots about your understanding of this area of science, if little else.

Last edited by PureFodder (2007-04-02 21:25:38)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7030|132 and Bush

Yea I think ABC reported this in 1975.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7104|Canberra, AUS
You mean the MAGNETIC pole? Or the normal pole?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
BVC
Member
+325|7124
Meh.  Either way we'll still have a reasonable climate.  Shifted seasons but still pretty reasonable.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7104|Canberra, AUS
If the normal pole is moving (which I've never heard it do, though I suppose the earth does wobble a little that'll have probably no effect. As with most geologic effects, a few lifetimes isn't enough to notice anything.

The magnetic pole shifting is a slightly different matter, but I won't go there as it has no relevance to climate.

Last edited by Spark (2007-04-02 23:43:35)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|7150|Sydney, Australia

Spark wrote:


The magnetic pole shifting is a slightly different matter, but I won't go there as it has no relevance to climate.
Actually, if Earth's magnetic field messes up, then Earth is susceptible to a whole lot on solar radiation that would otherwise be deflected. That increase of energy can have some adverse environmental consequences.


Mcminty.
TrollmeaT
Aspiring Objectivist
+492|7101|Colorado
Get your snowboards out
apollo_fi
The Flying Kalakukko.
+94|6959|The lunar module
Well done, US supreme court.
JahManRed
wank
+646|7057|IRELAND

Another "were all doomed" thread from ATG

Why is it always Americans who spout this............pollution is OK shit, its not doing us any harm?
Is it because that each individual has been scared into believing that the US economy will go into free fall if Gas Guzzling SUV's are downsized? I personally think it comes right down to selfishness. Lets keep justifying pollution because my standard of living might slip at little. It doesn't matter if pollution is going to cause the next ice age, but it sure as hell is going to contribute to it. You guys happy with the smog that hangs over LA and other Major cities? Happy with the massive rises in ashma and respiratory problems over the past 50 years? Happy with rivers full of chemicals?

If you won't stop polluting, because the majority of scientists say its killing our planet at least look closer to home and see what its doing to your local environment.................Ive given up on arguing what is best for the planet, for all the people on the planet with Americans, it falls on deaf ears, so I am appealing to you folks to help stop the polluting to improve your own countries air.................seams you don't give a toss about the rest of us.

Think about this. Your 85, your sons and grandsons are facing a world were whole nations are displaced, were their isn't enough food to feed the population, millions are dying and it is conclusively shown at that time that humans are responsible for global warming. Your son's turn to you and say: "daddy, why did yous leave the planet like this for us to struggle our lives through"   what do you reply?
"We weren't sure if it was us or cows farting son, and I loved my big car and our economy was so good, my standard of living so high.........." Personally I wouldn't be able to comprehend the shame........................
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7104|Canberra, AUS

mcminty wrote:

Spark wrote:


The magnetic pole shifting is a slightly different matter, but I won't go there as it has no relevance to climate.
Actually, if Earth's magnetic field messes up, then Earth is susceptible to a whole lot on solar radiation that would otherwise be deflected. That increase of energy can have some adverse environmental consequences.


Mcminty.
Well, yeah. I compare it to putting the planet in a giant microwave.

But it's irrelevant here - we can't do shitall about that.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|7150|Sydney, Australia

Spark wrote:

mcminty wrote:

Spark wrote:


The magnetic pole shifting is a slightly different matter, but I won't go there as it has no relevance to climate.
Actually, if Earth's magnetic field messes up, then Earth is susceptible to a whole lot on solar radiation that would otherwise be deflected. That increase of energy can have some adverse environmental consequences.


Mcminty.
Well, yeah. I compare it to putting the planet in a giant microwave.

But it's irrelevant here - we can't do shitall about that.
Lol... giant microwave.



JahManRed wrote:

Another "were all doomed" thread from ATG

Why is it always Americans who spout this............pollution is OK shit, its not doing us any harm?
Is it because that each individual has been scared into believing that the US economy will go into free fall if Gas Guzzling SUV's are downsized? I personally think it comes right down to selfishness. Lets keep justifying pollution because my standard of living might slip at little. It doesn't matter if pollution is going to cause the next ice age, but it sure as hell is going to contribute to it. You guys happy with the smog that hangs over LA and other Major cities? Happy with the massive rises in ashma and respiratory problems over the past 50 years? Happy with rivers full of chemicals?

If you won't stop polluting, because the majority of scientists say its killing our planet at least look closer to home and see what its doing to your local environment.................Ive given up on arguing what is best for the planet, for all the people on the planet with Americans, it falls on deaf ears, so I am appealing to you folks to help stop the polluting to improve your own countries air.................seams you don't give a toss about the rest of us.

Think about this. Your 85, your sons and grandsons are facing a world were whole nations are displaced, were their isn't enough food to feed the population, millions are dying and it is conclusively shown at that time that humans are responsible for global warming. Your son's turn to you and say: "daddy, why did yous leave the planet like this for us to struggle our lives through"   what do you reply?
"We weren't sure if it was us or cows farting son, and I loved my big car and our economy was so good, my standard of living so high.........." Personally I wouldn't be able to comprehend the shame........................
Thank you for such a great post.


It seems to be this mentality that America has, that they own the world or something, that they are the greatest and things like pollution aren't a problem for them. No, no, no, for cutting that would damage their economy... bullshit.

If realistic and achievable goals are set, and there is an incentive to develop and impliment new less/non-polluting technology, the American economy won't suffer the 'doomsday scenario' that many politicans are touting.


a quasi-rant, maybe?


Was there any news in America about Earth Hour?

Mcminty.
ELITE-UK
Scratching my back
+170|6903|SHEFFIELD, ENGLAND

JahManRed wrote:

Another "were all doomed" thread from ATG

Why is it always Americans who spout this............pollution is OK shit, its not doing us any harm?
Is it because that each individual has been scared into believing that the US economy will go into free fall if Gas Guzzling SUV's are downsized? I personally think it comes right down to selfishness. Lets keep justifying pollution because my standard of living might slip at little. It doesn't matter if pollution is going to cause the next ice age, but it sure as hell is going to contribute to it. You guys happy with the smog that hangs over LA and other Major cities? Happy with the massive rises in ashma and respiratory problems over the past 50 years? Happy with rivers full of chemicals?

If you won't stop polluting, because the majority of scientists say its killing our planet at least look closer to home and see what its doing to your local environment.................Ive given up on arguing what is best for the planet, for all the people on the planet with Americans, it falls on deaf ears, so I am appealing to you folks to help stop the polluting to improve your own countries air.................seams you don't give a toss about the rest of us.

Think about this. Your 85, your sons and grandsons are facing a world were whole nations are displaced, were their isn't enough food to feed the population, millions are dying and it is conclusively shown at that time that humans are responsible for global warming. Your son's turn to you and say: "daddy, why did yous leave the planet like this for us to struggle our lives through"   what do you reply?
"We weren't sure if it was us or cows farting son, and I loved my big car and our economy was so good, my standard of living so high.........." Personally I wouldn't be able to comprehend the shame........................
Amen to that brother, i 100% agree with what you said.
PureFodder
Member
+225|6714

Spark wrote:

mcminty wrote:

Spark wrote:


The magnetic pole shifting is a slightly different matter, but I won't go there as it has no relevance to climate.
Actually, if Earth's magnetic field messes up, then Earth is susceptible to a whole lot on solar radiation that would otherwise be deflected. That increase of energy can have some adverse environmental consequences.


Mcminty.
Well, yeah. I compare it to putting the planet in a giant microwave.

But it's irrelevant here - we can't do shitall about that.
One thing I was wondering, when the Earths magnetic field does nest invert, I seem to remember alot of migratory species will use the magnetic field as a source of navagation. Will it result in birds flying all over the globe at random for a few years?
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6958|Global Command

mcminty wrote:

Spark wrote:

mcminty wrote:


Actually, if Earth's magnetic field messes up, then Earth is susceptible to a whole lot on solar radiation that would otherwise be deflected. That increase of energy can have some adverse environmental consequences.


Mcminty.
Well, yeah. I compare it to putting the planet in a giant microwave.

But it's irrelevant here - we can't do shitall about that.
Lol... giant microwave.



JahManRed wrote:

Another "were all doomed" thread from ATG

Why is it always Americans who spout this............pollution is OK shit, its not doing us any harm?
Is it because that each individual has been scared into believing that the US economy will go into free fall if Gas Guzzling SUV's are downsized? I personally think it comes right down to selfishness. Lets keep justifying pollution because my standard of living might slip at little. It doesn't matter if pollution is going to cause the next ice age, but it sure as hell is going to contribute to it. You guys happy with the smog that hangs over LA and other Major cities? Happy with the massive rises in ashma and respiratory problems over the past 50 years? Happy with rivers full of chemicals?

If you won't stop polluting, because the majority of scientists say its killing our planet at least look closer to home and see what its doing to your local environment.................Ive given up on arguing what is best for the planet, for all the people on the planet with Americans, it falls on deaf ears, so I am appealing to you folks to help stop the polluting to improve your own countries air.................seams you don't give a toss about the rest of us.

Think about this. Your 85, your sons and grandsons are facing a world were whole nations are displaced, were their isn't enough food to feed the population, millions are dying and it is conclusively shown at that time that humans are responsible for global warming. Your son's turn to you and say: "daddy, why did yous leave the planet like this for us to struggle our lives through"   what do you reply?
"We weren't sure if it was us or cows farting son, and I loved my big car and our economy was so good, my standard of living so high.........." Personally I wouldn't be able to comprehend the shame........................
Thank you for such a great post.


It seems to be this mentality that America has, that they own the world or something, that they are the greatest and things like pollution aren't a problem for them. No, no, no, for cutting that would damage their economy... bullshit.

If realistic and achievable goals are set, and there is an incentive to develop and impliment new less/non-polluting technology, the American economy won't suffer the 'doomsday scenario' that many politicans are touting.


a quasi-rant, maybe?


Was there any news in America about Earth Hour?
NO there wasn't.


" If realistic and achievable goals are set, and there is an incentive to develop and impliment new less/non-polluting technology, the American economy won't suffer the 'doomsday scenario' that many politicans are touting."

That's what I'm waiting for.



ATG wrote:

First, I am against pollution, obviously. Frankly, it's one of the major reasons I do not wish for another war in the ME right now.
Jamared, you seem to be showing up lately in every thread I create with some sort of general, broad complaint about me.

Did you skip over the above line, or what?
topal63
. . .
+533|7147
Sometimes it feels like you are actually injuring my brain ATG! I don’t know how to express the depth of the errors you (and others on this board) continue to make about the science part of the “Global Warming” issue. Everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question. And, when it is agreed that the issue is “complex,” the argument shifts to an appeal to ignorance, that personal “confusion,” is reason enough to dismiss the science.

Last edited by topal63 (2007-04-03 09:53:35)

PureFodder
Member
+225|6714

topal63 wrote:

Sometimes if feels like you are actually injuring my brain ATG! I don’t know how to express the depth of the errors you (and others on this board) continue to make about the science part of the “Global Warming” issue.
Well we can have a try.
a) The scientific data about the movement of the MAGNETIC poles appears to have been confused in the OP to mean the movement of the Earths ROTATIONAL poles. The magnatic equator is moving, the rotational one isn't (at least not to any realistically relavent degree), hence the data has absolutely nothing to do with climate change. We can file this along with `the sun's getting hotter` and `the Earth isn't actually get warmer` unscientific crap.

b) As far as the gulf stream goes, something as small as an undersea landslide cannot change the Gulf Stream. It's far too big. Yes, a tsunami may look vast when it's comming towards your coast, but it's a drop in the ocean compaired to the size of the gulf stream. It would be the equivalent of trying to stop a tidal wave by throwing a brick at it. A more realistic and conceivable way for the gulf stream to stop is due to rapid global warming. As the ice in the Arctic melts it releases huge amounts of fresh water into the North Atlantic. Normally, due to evaporation of the warmer gulf stream waters there is an increased salinity of the gulf stream water as it hits the North Atlantic causing it to sink downwards. Now if enough fresh water form the Artic can mix with the gulf stream, it could reduce the salinity of the water enough to stop it from sinking, hence turning the gulf stream off. Such a scenario could occur through rapid global warming caused by pumping out huge amounts of greenhouse gasses, like what we do.
JahManRed
wank
+646|7057|IRELAND

Not a complaint against you ATG, 1 man can do very little to prevent the kind of climate change we are talking about. Its governments who pass legislation who make the difference.
Sorry if it sounded like I was having a go at you, I was having a go at people who won't sacrifice a ,little dip in living standards for a time for the greater good.............maybe I should have worded my post better.
If you think I am picking on you across other threads, I am not, I just see your posts as worthy of reply and you touch a nerve more than most with me...........still a fan tho.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6958|Global Command

JahManRed wrote:

Not a complaint against you ATG, 1 man can do very little to prevent the kind of climate change we are talking about. Its governments who pass legislation who make the difference.
Sorry if it sounded like I was having a go at you, I was having a go at people who won't sacrifice a ,little dip in living standards for a time for the greater good.............maybe I should have worded my post better.
If you think I am picking on you across other threads, I am not, I just see your posts as worthy of reply and you touch a nerve more than most with me...........still a fan tho.
Thanks.

I certainly don't want to be ignored.

I just feel sometimes like a man in a mob that would like to burn me alive.

Plus, there are life issues that are effecting my overall state of mind.
topal63
. . .
+533|7147

ATG wrote:

JahManRed wrote:

Not a complaint against you ATG, 1 man can do very little to prevent the kind of climate change we are talking about. Its governments who pass legislation who make the difference.
Sorry if it sounded like I was having a go at you, I was having a go at people who won't sacrifice a ,little dip in living standards for a time for the greater good.............maybe I should have worded my post better.
If you think I am picking on you across other threads, I am not, I just see your posts as worthy of reply and you touch a nerve more than most with me...........still a fan tho.
Thanks.

I certainly don't want to be ignored.

I just feel sometimes like a man in a mob that would like to burn me alive.

Plus, there are life issues that are effecting my overall state of mind.
Nobody wants to burn you... and certainly not me.

If anything I often see exactly where you are coming from on the "heart" / compassion part of every issue (as there is a human compassion part to almost every issue). Disagreements over logic do not amount to a dismissal of the "heart." And HOW could I not like you? Crap were both married, have kids, love music (Rush too - I think), admire art, care about the state of the world, etc… I am thinking more alike - than not alike.

Last edited by topal63 (2007-04-03 10:18:48)

ATG
Banned
+5,233|6958|Global Command

topal63 wrote:

ATG wrote:

JahManRed wrote:

Not a complaint against you ATG, 1 man can do very little to prevent the kind of climate change we are talking about. Its governments who pass legislation who make the difference.
Sorry if it sounded like I was having a go at you, I was having a go at people who won't sacrifice a ,little dip in living standards for a time for the greater good.............maybe I should have worded my post better.
If you think I am picking on you across other threads, I am not, I just see your posts as worthy of reply and you touch a nerve more than most with me...........still a fan tho.
Thanks.

I certainly don't want to be ignored.

I just feel sometimes like a man in a mob that would like to burn me alive.

Plus, there are life issues that are effecting my overall state of mind.
Nobody wants to burn you... and certainly not me.

If anything I often see exactly where you are coming from on the "heart" / compassion part of every issue (as there is a human compassion part to almost every issue). Disagreements over logic do not amount to a dismissal of the "heart." And HOW could I not like you? Crap were both married, have kids, love music (Rush too - I think), admire art, care about the state of the world, etc… I am thinking more alike - than not alike.
Thank you.
topal63
. . .
+533|7147

ATG wrote:

topal63 wrote:

ATG wrote:

Thanks.

I certainly don't want to be ignored.

I just feel sometimes like a man in a mob that would like to burn me alive.

Plus, there are life issues that are effecting my overall state of mind.
Nobody wants to burn you... and certainly not me.

If anything I often see exactly where you are coming from on the "heart" / compassion part of every issue (as there is a human compassion part to almost every issue). Disagreements over logic do not amount to a dismissal of the "heart." And HOW could I not like you? Crap were both married, have kids, love music (Rush too - I think), admire art, care about the state of the world, etc… I am thinking more alike - than not alike.
Thank you.
This opinion might be wrong or right, I don't know for sure? It's a guess... but I think you (like me) want to see positive ACTION! And your conclusion about Global Warming science is very suspect (IMO); but this is NOT THE ACTUAL conclusion that is on your mind. The actual conclusion is a response to the state of the world, and you want to see positive action taken against that which you deem to be harming that same - state of the world.

I am generalizing, and in a sense, I do feel the same way (like you).

Last edited by topal63 (2007-04-03 10:33:22)

mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|7150|Sydney, Australia
Re: Earth Hour

ATG wrote:

NO there wasn't.
Basically, most of Sydney switched off their lights for an hour last Saturday to cut down on our greenhouse emissions. The whole of Sydney city was dark - things like the 'coke' sign at Kings Cross were turned off for the first time in 35 years.

While it didn't actually do all that much in cutting emissions, it did raise awareness for this issue. Next year, it will become a national event (maybe 10x people participating.)


Imagine if it was made a monthly event? Imagine if 80-90% of American homes and businesses went without lights for 1 hour every month. Fuck, there's a start for the problem. Sure it's small, but it would increase awareness to the pollution problem within the community.

In your opinion, would this be somethings that Americans could embrace, or is there too much inertia for them to change?


Mcminty.

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