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2007-04-02 17:57:41
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7099|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

Other than intolerance of the JEWS, or for that matter, ANYONE that isn't Muslim, what other reason would the Muslims have to ally with Hitler to aid in genocide of an entire race???? As of yet, Israel had not been established.

The Zionists sided with Hitler BEFORE Hitlers "final solution" had been revealed and you know it.

I am also waiting for some to show me how and why the Jews do not belong in the ME historically. Show me that the JEWS were NEVER run off their land in what is now Israel. I can not say Palestine because, Palestine does not exist except in the minds of the Palestinians. Or I am wrong? Palestine is a conquered country??
You are trying to paint all muslims and arabs as inherently anti-semitic when all the issue is is a territorial one. The mufti of Jerusalem attempted to ally with Hitler because he thought he could gain strategically out of it as a result. In the very same manner that the US armed Al Qaeda in the 70s/80s and furnished Saddam with arms to help him make a proper go of attacking Iran. Heck even the subjugated Irish 'leaned Germanic' during WWI - the phrase of the moment being 'England's difficulty: Ireland's opportunity'.

The intolerance that was shown by the Palestinians was against ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS (as they saw it), not specifically Jews, and the terrorism of the Haganah, Irgun and Lehi Zionist terror organisations. If I put myself in the shoes of a Palestinian at that time I logically go through these steps:

a) Why are the British letting all these people into our lands? Why aren't they stopping them even though we tell them we don't want them here? The British were supposed to be looking after our interests since we were freed from being part of the Ottoman Empire! This isn't fair.

b) Well if the Brits aren't going to defend my interests then I'm going to have to do it myself. Picks up gun.

c) These illegal immigrants just keep on coming and now they want their own country!!! They have even organised themselves into guerrilla groups and attack ordinary villagers!!! Still no-one helps us!!! Even the League of Nations has decided that we have to give away 30% of our land for these immigrants. Picks up heavy machine gun.

There is no such thing as being conquered Lowing unless you run away. The Palestinians haven't. They're gonna inch every last drop of blood out of their enemy until justice is done, much like the Irish did under their occupation. The Israelis ceded the rights to that particular part of the world when they ran away from the Romans. Those Jews that stayed - I commend them - they lived in peaceful harmony with the other inhabitants of the region until the influx of zionist immigrants in the early 20th century. It's a shame that peaceful co-existence had to be spoiled.

PS Palestine exists in the minds of the international community. Otherwise there would not be any resolutions stating that Israel are acting illegally by occupying the West Bank and Gaza.
All of this and I tell you what I read............Sure The Jews were beaten fron  their land but it was their fault they left. Therefore, they chose to flee instead of stay and get wiped out,  they naturally gave up their rights to the land...........Is this what you are telling me??????!!!!!!!!


Did the entire ME history and violence, start with the creation of Israel or some shit???

Last edited by lowing (2007-04-02 18:08:54)

2007-04-02 18:05:09
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6853|North Carolina

lowing wrote:

What exactly did you expect the Church to do?? I am not defending them by any means, but could they have done? Excommunicate them!!!

Also, this thread is not about everyone else and what the did or did not do. This thread is about the persecution of the Jews and I felt that I have raised a point that by fighting with the Nazis, the Muslims were all about exterminating the Jews before they used the excuse of the creation of Israel.

If you wanna start a Christian persecution thread by all means do so and I will gladly post, I can't stand them historically as well.
I don't want to derail too much, but if a religious hierarchy wants me to even consider the possibility of their leader as being "infallible", he's gonna need to have the balls to stand up to a dictator.

He'd also need to have the balls to stand up to pedophiles among the clergy.  The Catholic Church's history of ignoring real problems and instead making ridiculous declarations like "Rock and Roll is the work of Satan" makes it quite obvious that it has no real worth in any spiritual sense.

The same goes for much of Islam's clergy.

Faith can be a good thing, but organized religion rarely is....
2007-04-02 18:20:45
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7099|USA

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

What exactly did you expect the Church to do?? I am not defending them by any means, but could they have done? Excommunicate them!!!

Also, this thread is not about everyone else and what the did or did not do. This thread is about the persecution of the Jews and I felt that I have raised a point that by fighting with the Nazis, the Muslims were all about exterminating the Jews before they used the excuse of the creation of Israel.

If you wanna start a Christian persecution thread by all means do so and I will gladly post, I can't stand them historically as well.
I don't want to derail too much, but if a religious hierarchy wants me to even consider the possibility of their leader as being "infallible", he's gonna need to have the balls to stand up to a dictator.

He'd also need to have the balls to stand up to pedophiles among the clergy.  The Catholic Church's history of ignoring real problems and instead making ridiculous declarations like "Rock and Roll is the work of Satan" makes it quite obvious that it has no real worth in any spiritual sense.

The same goes for much of Islam's clergy.

Faith can be a good thing, but organized religion rarely is....
I agree, but lets face reality.. It WAS HITLER after all, and the vatican was/is powerless to the non-followers. It faced extinction. I can understand the sit back and shut up approach to their problem. The neutral countries that had a defense, however, have no excuse.
2007-04-02 18:25:46
Smitty5613
Member
+46|6975|Middle of nowhere, California

lowing wrote:

ATG wrote:

I've been trying to point this out since I registered here.
Nice find.    +1


Low post to view ratio because of painful truth factor.
LOL, yeah somehow, I doubt this thread will be getting much "love" or attention by the Pro- Muslim  or anti-Israel crowd. I hope, of course, I am wrong.
dam Jews, Muslims are good, prais allah!!...... j/k..... i saw something on the history channel about that too... the Muslims and even Suddam Hussein's uncle fought the British in Iraq in WW2.. and tried to get German help, but it came too late and the US was in the war b4 they could wipe the British out of the middle east
2007-04-02 18:37:07
jonsimon
Member
+224|6943

lowing wrote:

I posted this in another thread then decided it might be worth its own.


We could have brought the Muslim world to its knees as it appears they deserved.


http://stosstruppen39-45.tripod.com/id10.html

http://christianactionforisrael.org/ant … bnazi.html

So it would seem that the Muslim hatred of the Jews reaches farther out than the establishment of Israel in 1947( 2 years after WW2), as we are lead to believe. It is apparent that down right intolerance of others and their beliefs is at the root of all this non-sense.  The Muslim world actually allied with Hitler to wipe out the Jews. So much for Israel being the reason for this hatred, it is the Jews that are hated, and persecuted.
Lowing, because a handful of powerful muslims sided with nazi germany to remove european regimes does not mean all muslims sided with nazi germany. In Iraq in particular only a portion of the government was pro-axis, primarily because they were currently occupied by the british. With the introduction of pro-axis Rashid Ali the Iraqi government began to sponsor intrigues against the british opressors. Following nazi successes in the war, Iraq grew into a full-fledged revolution against the british. Though they failed, many of the memebers of the revolution became politicians in the Baath party, influential througout the middle east. During and following the revolution anti-jewish propaganda accompanied anti-british propaganda. Much of any anti-jewish sentiment in Iraq can likely be traced to these roots, and is as much "down right intolerance" as is your hatred for muslims. (P.S. Which is to say, it is not "down right intolerance" and instead, propaganda fueled.)

Oh, and "christianactionforisrael" and "arabnazi" didn't seem too biased?
2007-04-02 18:46:40
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7099|USA

jonsimon wrote:

lowing wrote:

I posted this in another thread then decided it might be worth its own.


We could have brought the Muslim world to its knees as it appears they deserved.


http://stosstruppen39-45.tripod.com/id10.html

http://christianactionforisrael.org/ant … bnazi.html

So it would seem that the Muslim hatred of the Jews reaches farther out than the establishment of Israel in 1947( 2 years after WW2), as we are lead to believe. It is apparent that down right intolerance of others and their beliefs is at the root of all this non-sense.  The Muslim world actually allied with Hitler to wipe out the Jews. So much for Israel being the reason for this hatred, it is the Jews that are hated, and persecuted.
Lowing, because a handful of powerful muslims sided with nazi germany to remove european regimes does not mean all muslims sided with nazi germany. In Iraq in particular only a portion of the government was pro-axis, primarily because they were currently occupied by the british. With the introduction of pro-axis Rashid Ali the Iraqi government began to sponsor intrigues against the british opressors. Following nazi successes in the war, Iraq grew into a full-fledged revolution against the british. Though they failed, many of the memebers of the revolution became politicians in the Baath party, influential througout the middle east. During and following the revolution anti-jewish propaganda accompanied anti-british propaganda. Much of any anti-jewish sentiment in Iraq can likely be traced to these roots, and is as much "down right intolerance" as is your hatred for muslims. (P.S. Which is to say, it is not "down right intolerance" and instead, propaganda fueled.)

Oh, and "christianactionforisrael" and "arabnazi" didn't seem too biased?
I live in a country where all religions are tolerated. I do not HATE Muslims as to say I hate individuals. I hate Muslims in the sense that their religion and all they believe, be it written or practiced, is 180 out from the morality and values that are American. Although free to practice it, I whole heartedly disagree with it. It is a hypocritical stance that I have acknowledged and accepted for a long time in this forum.

I also struggle with our history of the American Indians and how we trerated them, our history before the civil rights movement also applies.

As for my links. I found it hard to find any anti-muslim articles on pro-muslim sites please forgive.
2007-04-02 19:06:35
Fen321
Member
+54|6945|Singularity

lowing wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

lowing wrote:

I posted this in another thread then decided it might be worth its own.


We could have brought the Muslim world to its knees as it appears they deserved.


http://stosstruppen39-45.tripod.com/id10.html

http://christianactionforisrael.org/ant … bnazi.html

So it would seem that the Muslim hatred of the Jews reaches farther out than the establishment of Israel in 1947( 2 years after WW2), as we are lead to believe. It is apparent that down right intolerance of others and their beliefs is at the root of all this non-sense.  The Muslim world actually allied with Hitler to wipe out the Jews. So much for Israel being the reason for this hatred, it is the Jews that are hated, and persecuted.
Lowing, because a handful of powerful muslims sided with nazi germany to remove european regimes does not mean all muslims sided with nazi germany. In Iraq in particular only a portion of the government was pro-axis, primarily because they were currently occupied by the british. With the introduction of pro-axis Rashid Ali the Iraqi government began to sponsor intrigues against the british opressors. Following nazi successes in the war, Iraq grew into a full-fledged revolution against the british. Though they failed, many of the memebers of the revolution became politicians in the Baath party, influential througout the middle east. During and following the revolution anti-jewish propaganda accompanied anti-british propaganda. Much of any anti-jewish sentiment in Iraq can likely be traced to these roots, and is as much "down right intolerance" as is your hatred for muslims. (P.S. Which is to say, it is not "down right intolerance" and instead, propaganda fueled.)

Oh, and "christianactionforisrael" and "arabnazi" didn't seem too biased?
I live in a country where all religions are tolerated. I do not HATE Muslims as to say I hate individuals. I hate Muslims in the sense that their religion and all they believe, be it written or practiced, is 180 out from the morality and values that are American. Although free to practice it, I whole heartedly disagree with it. It is a hypocritical stance that I have acknowledged and accepted for a long time in this forum.

I also struggle with our history of the American Indians and how we trerated them, our history before the civil rights movement also applies.

As for my links. I found it hard to find any anti-muslim articles on pro-muslim sites please forgive.
By what moral standards do you judge the Muslims -- by American moral standards? If that's the case the founding of this country along with the atrocities committed by the Christians by more than one European power is suffice to say that we committed Genocide on a much larger scale through out the Americas than did Hitler in killing the jews. Guess how they justified the mal treatment.....the same way men justified women oppression / black oppression / Indian savages ... the Bible. Welcome to the wonderful game of religion were none are exempt from the reality that they have all committed atrocities in the name of a God -- ideology.

I'm not sure how you can pull off not hating the individuals that comprise the religious ideology whom you hate but is made up of said individuals........bro just say you hate all Muslims instead of half ass excuses like this lol.
2007-04-02 19:16:22
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7099|USA

Fen321 wrote:

lowing wrote:

jonsimon wrote:


Lowing, because a handful of powerful muslims sided with nazi germany to remove european regimes does not mean all muslims sided with nazi germany. In Iraq in particular only a portion of the government was pro-axis, primarily because they were currently occupied by the british. With the introduction of pro-axis Rashid Ali the Iraqi government began to sponsor intrigues against the british opressors. Following nazi successes in the war, Iraq grew into a full-fledged revolution against the british. Though they failed, many of the memebers of the revolution became politicians in the Baath party, influential througout the middle east. During and following the revolution anti-jewish propaganda accompanied anti-british propaganda. Much of any anti-jewish sentiment in Iraq can likely be traced to these roots, and is as much "down right intolerance" as is your hatred for muslims. (P.S. Which is to say, it is not "down right intolerance" and instead, propaganda fueled.)

Oh, and "christianactionforisrael" and "arabnazi" didn't seem too biased?
I live in a country where all religions are tolerated. I do not HATE Muslims as to say I hate individuals. I hate Muslims in the sense that their religion and all they believe, be it written or practiced, is 180 out from the morality and values that are American. Although free to practice it, I whole heartedly disagree with it. It is a hypocritical stance that I have acknowledged and accepted for a long time in this forum.

I also struggle with our history of the American Indians and how we trerated them, our history before the civil rights movement also applies.

As for my links. I found it hard to find any anti-muslim articles on pro-muslim sites please forgive.
By what moral standards do you judge the Muslims -- by American moral standards? If that's the case the founding of this country along with the atrocities committed by the Christians by more than one European power is suffice to say that we committed Genocide on a much larger scale through out the Americas than did Hitler in killing the jews. Guess how they justified the mal treatment.....the same way men justified women oppression / black oppression / Indian savages ... the Bible. Welcome to the wonderful game of religion were none are exempt from the reality that they have all committed atrocities in the name of a God -- ideology.

I'm not sure how you can pull off not hating the individuals that comprise the religious ideology whom you hate but is made up of said individuals........bro just say you hate all Muslims instead of half ass excuses like this lol.
Sorry buddy, I judge an individual on his ACTIONS not his beliefs. If your religion dictates you hate Jews fine, if you act on your hatred, by participating in genocide, you just made an enemy. If your religion forbids tolerance for the West and "infidels" I don't give a shit. If you ACT on that hatred, you have just made an enemy.

If you can not understand that living in a tolerant country such as the USA, with intolerant beliefs such as Islam does not mix well. Then too bad. I stick by my post.
2007-04-02 19:38:54
Fen321
Member
+54|6945|Singularity
Bro we do not live in a tolerant country! We live in a country where we are all so damn intolerant of one another -- but are lucky enough to have so many people -- and as a byproduct so many groups to hate that we can't all gang up on any given group to hate together.

Here I'll play it your way -- if you only judge individuals based off their actions then how can you claim to hate MUSLIMS at all. You would do yourself a favor by naming all of the the individuals and stating i hate  so and so because he did this <event> and this <event>. Now, if you can't name people then your simply backtracking and finding yet another excuse to hate an ideology which is no different than other forms of fundamental ideologies -- which would be fine if you realize that all religions are just as capable, but no you seem happy with only accepting one reality is possible.

Find where it states in the Q'ruan to hate Jews? Then I'll ask you when did you learn to speak Arabic and then I'll ask you if you haven't spoken Arabic how you can come to such conclusions based off an interpretation. <--someone other than yourself came to this one thus you assign them with the authority in believe them to be correct, but are they?

Once again i present to yo the fact that the Prophet Mohammad married a Jew / did business with Jews -- so one cannot reconcile the core of what it means to be Muslim and the perversion that is fundamentalism <-- which is inherently "okay" to hate (strangely enough) since its a bastards tool for political reform. Kinda like religious zealots in the states trying to pass an Amendment allowing for marriage to be only between man and women -- intolerance?
2007-04-02 19:43:57
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6853|North Carolina

Fen321 wrote:

Bro we do not live in a tolerant country! We live in a country where we are all so damn intolerant of one another -- but are lucky enough to have so many people -- and as a byproduct so many groups to hate that we can't all gang up on any given group to hate together.

Here I'll play it your way -- if you only judge individuals based off their actions then how can you claim to hate MUSLIMS at all. You would do yourself a favor by naming all of the the individuals and stating i hate  so and so because he did this <event> and this <event>. Now, if you can't name people then your simply backtracking and finding yet another excuse to hate an ideology which is no different than other forms of fundamental ideologies -- which would be fine if you realize that all religions are just as capable, but no you seem happy with only accepting one reality is possible.

Find where it states in the Q'ruan to hate Jews? Then I'll ask you when did you learn to speak Arabic and then I'll ask you if you haven't spoken Arabic how you can come to such conclusions based off an interpretation. <--someone other than yourself came to this one thus you assign them with the authority in believe them to be correct, but are they?

Once again i present to yo the fact that the Prophet Mohammad married a Jew / did business with Jews -- so one cannot reconcile the core of what it means to be Muslim and the perversion that is fundamentalism <-- which is inherently "okay" to hate (strangely enough) since its a bastards tool for political reform. Kinda like religious zealots in the states trying to pass an Amendment allowing for marriage to be only between man and women -- intolerance?
Well, I'll just put it this way...

1) Christ was a Jew, but plenty of Christians are anti-Semitic.  It makes perfect sense that plenty of Muslims would be anti-Semitic as well, since hypocrisy and religion go together almost as well as politics and greed.

2) America may have some tolerance issues, but we're pretty tolerant compared to most Middle Eastern nations.  Women's rights are a joke in much of the region, and in countries like Turkey, you can't even claim the Armenian genocide happened without getting prosecuted.  I had a friend who was working in the United Arab Emirates who was advised by his employer not to wear a shirt with the American flag on it for fear of him getting attacked.
2007-04-02 19:51:41
Fen321
Member
+54|6945|Singularity
Yeah, but that's the Catch -- you can't deny the Holocaust in Europe without seeing some Jail time. Doesn't that negate the ME is worse in comparison bit?

If we are going based off comparisons how about trying this on for size. Once the countries that comprise the Middle East (excluding Turkey and Egypt) get to be about the age of America we start talking about comparisons.  For if we take into consideration how long it took Black men/women and white women the right to vote we will see we are as intolerant as the next guy. Unless you think 87 years of voting for women and about 47 for black men/women is a nice time scale to judge others by in terms of time scales.......kinda short don't you think -- probably need to wait about 100 years before we can start bashing other countries , but hey we have progressed I won't take that away. Which is why i have reason to believe once the Middle Class starts to build up through out these regions and contest against the wrongs of the Autocratic governments -- rights will surely come second nature.
2007-04-02 19:55:05
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6853|North Carolina

Fen321 wrote:

Yeah, but that's the Catch -- you can't deny the Holocaust in Europe without seeing some Jail time. Doesn't that negate the ME is worse in comparison bit?
Hey, don't ask me...  I think that's a stupid law too.

Fen321 wrote:

If we are going based off comparisons how about trying this on for size. Once the countries that comprise the Middle East (excluding Turkey and Egypt) get to be about the age of America we start talking about comparisons.  For if we take into consideration how long it took Black men/women and white women the right to vote we will see we are as intolerant as the next guy. Unless you think 87 years of voting for women and about 47 for black men/women is a nice time scale to judge others by in terms of time scales.......kinda short don't you think -- probably need to wait about 100 years before we can start bashing other countries , but hey we have progressed I won't take that away. Which is why i have reason to believe once the Middle Class starts to build up through out these regions and contest against the wrongs of the Autocratic governments -- rights will surely come second nature.
Their societies have been around far longer than ours have, so one could argue that they had a long lead time to develop beyond us.  They didn't, thus, we are more advanced.

But you're right...  there really is no comparison.  We live in modern times, while much of the Middle East still pretends it's the Middle Ages.
2007-04-02 20:10:24
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7099|USA

Fen321 wrote:

Bro we do not live in a tolerant country! We live in a country where we are all so damn intolerant of one another -- but are lucky enough to have so many people -- and as a byproduct so many groups to hate that we can't all gang up on any given group to hate together.

Here I'll play it your way -- if you only judge individuals based off their actions then how can you claim to hate MUSLIMS at all. You would do yourself a favor by naming all of the the individuals and stating i hate  so and so because he did this <event> and this <event>. Now, if you can't name people then your simply backtracking and finding yet another excuse to hate an ideology which is no different than other forms of fundamental ideologies -- which would be fine if you realize that all religions are just as capable, but no you seem happy with only accepting one reality is possible.

Find where it states in the Q'ruan to hate Jews? Then I'll ask you when did you learn to speak Arabic and then I'll ask you if you haven't spoken Arabic how you can come to such conclusions based off an interpretation. <--someone other than yourself came to this one thus you assign them with the authority in believe them to be correct, but are they?

Once again i present to yo the fact that the Prophet Mohammad married a Jew / did business with Jews -- so one cannot reconcile the core of what it means to be Muslim and the perversion that is fundamentalism <-- which is inherently "okay" to hate (strangely enough) since its a bastards tool for political reform. Kinda like religious zealots in the states trying to pass an Amendment allowing for marriage to be only between man and women -- intolerance?
I almost stopped reading with your opening sentence saying the US is not a tolerant country. What a shitty attitude you have of the US.

You must be new here, I find Christianity just as violent and historically intolerant, it is just that, gee whiz, They haven't been strapping bombs to their chests lately or flying airplanes into buildings.

Your guidelines on how opinions are formed are rediculous and unrealistic. Do not tell me that I can only form opinions based on what I see with my own eyes and not current events, or read. If you only base opinion on what you have seen for yourself then you can not speak intelegently on the civil rights or US history, thus you can have no opinion on the tolerance or intolerance of America.

I live in the real world, I do not give two shits who married who 10,000,000 years ago. I am talking about current events and the actions of those who support, finance, carry out, or do not condemn, acts of terrorism by Muslims or anyone else.
2007-04-02 20:11:26
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7099|USA

Turquoise wrote:

Fen321 wrote:

Yeah, but that's the Catch -- you can't deny the Holocaust in Europe without seeing some Jail time. Doesn't that negate the ME is worse in comparison bit?
Hey, don't ask me...  I think that's a stupid law too.

Fen321 wrote:

If we are going based off comparisons how about trying this on for size. Once the countries that comprise the Middle East (excluding Turkey and Egypt) get to be about the age of America we start talking about comparisons.  For if we take into consideration how long it took Black men/women and white women the right to vote we will see we are as intolerant as the next guy. Unless you think 87 years of voting for women and about 47 for black men/women is a nice time scale to judge others by in terms of time scales.......kinda short don't you think -- probably need to wait about 100 years before we can start bashing other countries , but hey we have progressed I won't take that away. Which is why i have reason to believe once the Middle Class starts to build up through out these regions and contest against the wrongs of the Autocratic governments -- rights will surely come second nature.
Their societies have been around far longer than ours have, so one could argue that they had a long lead time to develop beyond us.  They didn't, thus, we are more advanced.

But you're right...  there really is no comparison.  We live in modern times, while much of the Middle East still pretends it's the Middle Ages.
yeah I was kinda scratchin' my head at this one as well.
2007-04-03 00:09:54
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|7003

ATG wrote:

Shit, the Jews ceded the region inasmuch as the Arabs did when they started living in refuge camps.

This is not going well for you Cameron.
You consistantly ignore known history. You'd like to think history started in 1947 but it didn't.

The area has exchanged hands multiple times.

Perhaps we should make it fair for everybody and render the area a radioactive wasteland.
@ Lowing also.

The jist of this thread is to try and equate muslims (in general) with Adolf Hitler. Adolf Hitler despised Jews to the point of creating concentration camps in which he gassed and burned as many Jewish men, women and children as he could lay his hands on. There is of course anti-semitism in the Middle East but to decry all muslims as genocidal is patently ridiculous. Explain to me how 30,000 Jews live happily in 'big bad evil' Iran. They haven't been sent away to death camps. The very same applies to Turkey - an almost totally muslim nation. Your association is weak, too many holes and far too general. The Mufti of Jerusalem's reasoning was based on getting the Zionists out of Palestine - not on ridding the entire world of Jews. Americans should be very familiar with the concept of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' - or else they seem to have a very short memory.

PS Thanks for the history lesson ATG - perhaps we should return the region to Egyptian rule as you suggest. Or perhaps recreate Cana'an.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-04-03 00:10:47)

2007-04-03 01:28:06
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6938|Menlo Park, CA
The only reason Israel isnt invaded AGAIN by all its neighbors is. . . . . . . . . .The United States Military. 

The muslims want the Jews gone. . . .pure and simple

They dont want to live in harmony with Jews, they want to live in harmony WITHOUT a Jewish state.  Iran has been very honest in its thoughts on Israel and Jews in general. . . .they are inferior in their eyes, and should be destroyed. 

Israel HAS done bad things to even further the hatred upon them, but in all honestly you cant really blame them for reacting in harsh ways. . .THE ABSOLUTE BOTTOM LINE is the United States needs to let Israel do its own thing, "be pushed out of the nest to fend for itself" if you will. . .Cause lets face it, blindly backing Israel in all its affairs have HURT American foreign policy, not helped it.
2007-04-03 01:29:21
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|7003

fadedsteve wrote:

Iran has been very honest in its thoughts on Israel and Jews in general. . . .they are inferior in their eyes, and should be destroyed.
Care to explain why 30,000 Jews have lived unharmed in Iran since long before the birth of the Islamic Republic then?

You are confusing the state of Israel with Judaism in it's totality. If all Israelis moved to America then Iran wouldn't have a problem with 'Jews', as you put it. They certainly wouldn't bother chasing after them.

Ayatollah Khomeini, upon returning to Iran following his exile in Iraq, decreed that the Jews were 'to be protected', in fact.

Haroun Yashyaei, former chairman of the Central Jewish Community in Iran:

"Khomeini didn't mix up our community with Israel and Zionism - he saw us as Iranians."

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-04-03 01:38:14)

2007-04-03 01:35:54
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6938|Menlo Park, CA

CameronPoe wrote:

fadedsteve wrote:

Iran has been very honest in its thoughts on Israel and Jews in general. . . .they are inferior in their eyes, and should be destroyed.
Care to explain why 30,000 Jews have lived unharmed in Iran since long before the birth of the Islamic Republic then?

You are confusing the state of Israel with Judaism in it's totality. If all Israelis moved to America then Iran wouldn't have a problem with 'Jews', as you put it. They certainly wouldn't bother chasing after them.
Well the Ayatollah has issued edicts (fatwas) urging for the protection of Iranian Jews.  I know they live there unharmed, but it doesnt mean they arent looked down upon. 

The Jews in Iran are just that, Jews. . . .Iran has a big problem with Zionists! Maybe I should have said Iran hates Zionist Jews as opposed to just Jews in general.

They view Zionists as inferior and should be destroyed, hence the reason why they keep saying the Zionist Jewish state should be destroyed.  I should note though when Iran speaks of Jews (the ones the state dislikes) they generally say "zionist" first. . .

Last edited by fadedsteve (2007-04-03 01:37:08)

2007-04-03 04:10:31
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7099|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

ATG wrote:

Shit, the Jews ceded the region inasmuch as the Arabs did when they started living in refuge camps.

This is not going well for you Cameron.
You consistantly ignore known history. You'd like to think history started in 1947 but it didn't.

The area has exchanged hands multiple times.

Perhaps we should make it fair for everybody and render the area a radioactive wasteland.
@ Lowing also.

The jist of this thread is to try and equate muslims (in general) with Adolf Hitler. Adolf Hitler despised Jews to the point of creating concentration camps in which he gassed and burned as many Jewish men, women and children as he could lay his hands on. There is of course anti-semitism in the Middle East but to decry all muslims as genocidal is patently ridiculous. Explain to me how 30,000 Jews live happily in 'big bad evil' Iran. They haven't been sent away to death camps. The very same applies to Turkey - an almost totally muslim nation. Your association is weak, too many holes and far too general. The Mufti of Jerusalem's reasoning was based on getting the Zionists out of Palestine - not on ridding the entire world of Jews. Americans should be very familiar with the concept of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' - or else they seem to have a very short memory.

PS Thanks for the history lesson ATG - perhaps we should return the region to Egyptian rule as you suggest. Or perhaps recreate Cana'an.
The jest of this thread is to show that, the Muslims HATE the JEWS, and want them destroyed. So much so, they sided with Hitler to do just that. It is also to show that this hatred goes deeper than just the creation of Israel. I think, and for good reason, that the destruction of Israel, is not enough for the Muslims. I do not think the destruction of Israel will bring peace to the Middle East. I think in the Muslim mindset the only thing that will bring peace is a Muslim dominated world. I also think that once the Jews are destroyed, there would be a war against Christianity.

It is definitely an uphill battle for you Cam, to defend the Muslims, given their history, current events, and teachings. It is a violent, intolerant religion. IT IS the reason, there is no peace in the Middle East, nor has been for 5000 years.
2007-04-03 04:23:03
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|7003

lowing wrote:

The jest of this thread is to show that, the Muslims HATE the JEWS, and want them destroyed. So much so, they sided with Hitler to do just that. It is also to show that this hatred goes deeper than just the creation of Israel. I think, and for good reason, that the destruction of Israel, is not enough for the Muslims. I do not think the destruction of Israel will bring peace to the Middle East. I think in the Muslim mindset the only thing that will bring peace is a Muslim dominated world. I also think that once the Jews are destroyed, there would be a war against Christianity.

It is definitely an uphill battle for you Cam, to defend the Muslims, given their history, current events, and teachings. It is a violent, intolerant religion. IT IS the reason, there is no peace in the Middle East, nor has been for 5000 years.
Au contraire. This has been the most easy OP to rebutt in a quite a while. It all hinges around the fact that you can't differentiate between a Jew and a Zionist and continue to ignore several examples of peaceful co-existence between Jews and Muslims where, given your views, one would expect to have witnessed a genocide. Nice try. No cigar though.

You are fairly unbelievable far off the mark with respect to how the vast majority of ordinary muslims view the world. They don't want to rule it - they just want their own patch to themselves. An unbelievably small and sutpid minority want to dominate it. Try have a PM chat with some of the resident muslims on the forum like m3th0d or something.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-04-03 04:28:57)

2007-04-03 04:30:45
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7099|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

The jest of this thread is to show that, the Muslims HATE the JEWS, and want them destroyed. So much so, they sided with Hitler to do just that. It is also to show that this hatred goes deeper than just the creation of Israel. I think, and for good reason, that the destruction of Israel, is not enough for the Muslims. I do not think the destruction of Israel will bring peace to the Middle East. I think in the Muslim mindset the only thing that will bring peace is a Muslim dominated world. I also think that once the Jews are destroyed, there would be a war against Christianity.

It is definitely an uphill battle for you Cam, to defend the Muslims, given their history, current events, and teachings. It is a violent, intolerant religion. IT IS the reason, there is no peace in the Middle East, nor has been for 5000 years.
Au contraire. This has been the most easy OP to rebutt in a quite a while. It all hinges around the fact that you can't differentiate between a Jew and a Zionist and continue to ignore several examples of peaceful co-existence between Jews and Muslims where, given your views, one would expect to have witnessed a genocide. Nice try. No cigar though.
So it was only Zionist Jews that the Muslims conspired to kill with the Nazis??? It was only Zionist Jews that have been persecuted throughout history??
2007-04-03 04:35:29
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6738|Éire
lowing how many Muslims actively took part in the extermination of Jews in WWII, is there a source that can provide reasonably accurate figures?
2007-04-03 04:40:47
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7099|USA

Braddock wrote:

lowing how many Muslims actively took part in the extermination of Jews in WWII, is there a source that can provide reasonably accurate figures?
I will be glad to answer your question, I trust you are writing right now to answer mine.


Apparently, enough to make it note worthy in history. The article also said that the Muslimswere the biggest colaborators with the Nazis. Wonder why that is?
2007-04-03 04:50:07
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7029|SE London

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

lowing how many Muslims actively took part in the extermination of Jews in WWII, is there a source that can provide reasonably accurate figures?
I will be glad to answer your question, I trust you are writing right now to answer mine.


Apparently, enough to make it note worthy in history. The article also said that the Muslimswere the biggest colaborators with the Nazis. Wonder why that is?
Any actual figures?
2007-04-03 04:51:59
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6738|Éire

Berster7 wrote:

Any actual figures?
?

 

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