You can't go back and slow down the titanic.ATG wrote:
So are you saying only people originating from your ancestoral region can be Jewish?
I didn't realize it was such a closed club.
Never mind Serge, I didn't mean to derail your thread.
carry on.
When I said Mormons are Mormons that meant they are members of a Religion, not a better or worse one. Period. Now you can call me Zionist too. I'm not elitist. I pointed my origins. I don't deny them. I'm against Israel government, but I'm still a Jew.Turquoise wrote:
I'd like you to note something here....sergeriver wrote:
It's not a perspective. It's a real ethnicity. A lot of Jews happen to believe in Judaism. Mormons are just Mormons. Big difference.Turquoise wrote:
You might think it's comical, but the Jews don't. It sounds like you're ignorant of the Jewish perspective on this.
"Mormons are just Mormons."
I'm not trying to pick on you, but there is a natural tendency for many Jews to subconsciously distance themselves from all other groups. This is part of why they are often targeted as scapegoats. Jewish society is insular by nature, and this arouses suspicion and resentment in many outside groups.
It's also the kind of thing that leads to Israel's treatment of Palestinians. Many Israelis, consciously or subconsciously, see Palestinians as lesser beings for not being Jewish.
So, it's always good to be careful how you phrase certain things. Otherwise, you may come off as being elitist. Many people rightfully interpret certain Jews as being elitist. Of course, plenty of them aren't....
As long as you're not elitist, we shouldn't have any problems....sergeriver wrote:
When I said Mormons are Mormons that meant they are members of a Religion, not a better or worse one. Period. Now you can call me Zionist too. I'm not elitist. I pointed my origins. I don't deny them. I'm against Israel government, but I'm still a Jew.Turquoise wrote:
I'd like you to note something here....sergeriver wrote:
It's not a perspective. It's a real ethnicity. A lot of Jews happen to believe in Judaism. Mormons are just Mormons. Big difference.
"Mormons are just Mormons."
I'm not trying to pick on you, but there is a natural tendency for many Jews to subconsciously distance themselves from all other groups. This is part of why they are often targeted as scapegoats. Jewish society is insular by nature, and this arouses suspicion and resentment in many outside groups.
It's also the kind of thing that leads to Israel's treatment of Palestinians. Many Israelis, consciously or subconsciously, see Palestinians as lesser beings for not being Jewish.
So, it's always good to be careful how you phrase certain things. Otherwise, you may come off as being elitist. Many people rightfully interpret certain Jews as being elitist. Of course, plenty of them aren't....
Precisely, so why would you feel ashamed? People are held accountable based on what they have the ability to control.sergeriver wrote:
When I said Mormons are Mormons that meant they are members of a Religion, not a better or worse one. Period. Now you can call me Zionist too. I'm not elitist. I pointed my origins. I don't deny them. I'm against Israel government, but I'm still a Jew.
My ancestors are European. You confused the whole point, and derailed a thread only to bash me coz I said I was a Jew. Sorry, but I'm a Jew, and that's my ethnicity. I'm agnostic too. Oops.ATG wrote:
So are you saying only people originating from your ancestoral region can be Jewish?
I didn't realize it was such a closed club.
Never mind Serge, I didn't mean to derail your thread.
carry on.
I heard ATG forced the British sailors to confess also.ATG wrote:
Dummy, I almost unconditional support the Jews, Why would I bash them?
I saw a serious flaw in your thinking, still do, and exploited it.
Sorry.
I'm ashamed because Palestinians live in a shithole courtesy of Israel, a Jewish country. It's not my fault. But I'm ashamed. That's why I always condemn Zionists, because those people make normal Jews like myself look bad, and then I get insults over my last name.Kmarion wrote:
Precisely, so why would you feel ashamed? People are held accountable based on what they have the ability to control.sergeriver wrote:
When I said Mormons are Mormons that meant they are members of a Religion, not a better or worse one. Period. Now you can call me Zionist too. I'm not elitist. I pointed my origins. I don't deny them. I'm against Israel government, but I'm still a Jew.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 8#p1302708
Now you call me a dummy, great dude. You know what man?ATG wrote:
Dummy, I almost unconditional support the Jews, Why would I bash them?
I saw a serious flaw in your thinking, still do, and exploited it.
Sorry.
Another persons ignorance should not be a source of shame onto you. You are far too intelligent to let that happen. Attitude is a personal responsibility and something you must have control over.sergeriver wrote:
I'm ashamed because Palestinians live in a shithole courtesy of Israel, a Jewish country. It's not my fault. But I'm ashamed. That's why I always condemn Zionists, because those people make normal Jews like myself look bad, and then I get insults over my last name.Kmarion wrote:
Precisely, so why would you feel ashamed? People are held accountable based on what they have the ability to control.sergeriver wrote:
When I said Mormons are Mormons that meant they are members of a Religion, not a better or worse one. Period. Now you can call me Zionist too. I'm not elitist. I pointed my origins. I don't deny them. I'm against Israel government, but I'm still a Jew.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 8#p1302708
Last edited by Kmarion (2007-03-30 19:02:21)
If someone of your family does something wrong you can feel shame, can't you? Not for you, but for the actions of the people related to you.Kmarion wrote:
Another persons ignorance should not be a source of shame onto you. You are far too intelligent to let that happen. Attitude is a personal responsibility and something you must have control over.sergeriver wrote:
I'm ashamed because Palestinians live in a shithole courtesy of Israel, a Jewish country. It's not my fault. But I'm ashamed. That's why I always condemn Zionists, because those people make normal Jews like myself look bad, and then I get insults over my last name.Kmarion wrote:
Precisely, so why would you feel ashamed? People are held accountable based on what they have the ability to control.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 8#p1302708
No, shame and regret can only be placed on those who have wronged. To accept it for something you had no control over is to submit to prejudice.sergeriver wrote:
If someone of your family does something wrong you can feel shame, can't you? Not for you, but for the actions of the people related to you.Kmarion wrote:
Another persons ignorance should not be a source of shame onto you. You are far too intelligent to let that happen. Attitude is a personal responsibility and something you must have control over.sergeriver wrote:
I'm ashamed because Palestinians live in a shithole courtesy of Israel, a Jewish country. It's not my fault. But I'm ashamed. That's why I always condemn Zionists, because those people make normal Jews like myself look bad, and then I get insults over my last name.
sergeriver wrote:
Now you call me a dummy, great dude. You know what man?ATG wrote:
Dummy, I almost unconditionally support the Jews, Why would I bash them?
I saw a serious flaw in your thinking, still do, and exploited it. This is a Israel bashing thread, did you expect it to go unchallenged?
Sorry.
I'm not Jew coz I don't practice Judaism, you are right. My last name is Jewish, but I can't be a Jew since I don't practice Judaism. Amazing reasoning. And what the fuck has to do if you support Jews or not? Who cares? I'm still Jew. And you bashed me coz I can't be Jew if I don't practice a Religion.
Yes, I called you a dummy. You called me one one two ways, insulted my heritage and projected your prejudice onto me in one thread, I'd say I have some catching up to do.sergeriver wrote:
" I amazed by your ignorance about this. If you don't want to watch the fucking video fine, but don't tell me BS about my origins. I'm a fucking Jew and your ethnicity isn't Mormon at all.
Stupid thing to say.
It's a real ethnicity. A lot of Jews happen to believe in Judaism. Mormons are just Mormons.
You are the one full of prejudice.
Last edited by ATG (2007-03-30 19:14:34)
Almost unconditionally supporting the Jews is not such a good idea, but then again, so is almost unconditionally supporting anything....ATG wrote:
Dummy, I almost unconditional support the Jews, Why would I bash them?
I saw a serious flaw in your thinking, still do, and exploited it.
Sorry.
That's a really good line. I like that.Kmarion wrote:
No, shame and regret can only be placed on those who have wronged. To accept it for something you had no control over is to submit to prejudice.sergeriver wrote:
If someone of your family does something wrong you can feel shame, can't you? Not for you, but for the actions of the people related to you.Kmarion wrote:
Another persons ignorance should not be a source of shame onto you. You are far too intelligent to let that happen. Attitude is a personal responsibility and something you must have control over.
No charge for you Turquoise .Turquoise wrote:
That's a really good line. I like that.Kmarion wrote:
No, shame and regret can only be placed on those who have wronged. To accept it for something you had no control over is to submit to prejudice.sergeriver wrote:
If someone of your family does something wrong you can feel shame, can't you? Not for you, but for the actions of the people related to you.
Unless of course you are trying to interject a personal link to the situation in order to illict an emotional reaction. It's sort of like a politician with a very large energy inefficient house making a movie about global warming.ATG wrote:
My families Mormon.
Extreme Mormons.
I don't go around calling myself one.
I never said I was related to Israel, my ancestors are mostly Russian, but I'm still Jew. Do you know where did most of the Jews go after WWII? Israel. And regarding the thread, I found this documentary interesting. And I didn't see the other thread about this.Pug wrote:
Unless of course you are trying to interject a personal link to the situation in order to illict an emotional reaction. It's sort of like a politician with a very large energy inefficient house making a movie about global warming.ATG wrote:
My families Mormon.
Extreme Mormons.
I don't go around calling myself one.
No offense Serge, but my Pop would have my ass on a plate for having a selective heritage only when it suits me. Especially if I'm using in an argument about being ashamed of my heritage, which you have pointed out is not related at all to Israel. Everyone knows having a Jewish heritage doesn't mean they are Israeli, but since you are using the link to promote your cause, enjoy the feedback.
Yay third thread in one week on the same topic.
Let's see. The only insulting thing I told you was that you were saying something stupid, I did not called you names as you did. I also said you were ignorant about this, not ignorant. I also said that Mormons are just Mormons, which means they are members of a Religion but nothing else, they aren't better or worse than other members of any Religion. And the "you are the one full of prejudice" was in response to your "how much prejudice is in that?". Then you called me dummy. You don't have any catch up to do. But be my guest.ATG wrote:
sergeriver wrote:
Now you call me a dummy, great dude. You know what man?ATG wrote:
Dummy, I almost unconditionally support the Jews, Why would I bash them?
I saw a serious flaw in your thinking, still do, and exploited it. This is a Israel bashing thread, did you expect it to go unchallenged?
Sorry.
I'm not Jew coz I don't practice Judaism, you are right. My last name is Jewish, but I can't be a Jew since I don't practice Judaism. Amazing reasoning. And what the fuck has to do if you support Jews or not? Who cares? I'm still Jew. And you bashed me coz I can't be Jew if I don't practice a Religion.Yes, I called you a dummy. You called me one one two ways, insulted my heritage and projected your prejudice onto me in one thread, I'd say I have some catching up to do.sergeriver wrote:
" I amazed by your ignorance about this. If you don't want to watch the fucking video fine, but don't tell me BS about my origins. I'm a fucking Jew and your ethnicity isn't Mormon at all.
Stupid thing to say.
It's a real ethnicity. A lot of Jews happen to believe in Judaism. Mormons are just Mormons.
You are the one full of prejudice.
It's the same as the difference between being Irish and being Catholic, the two are not mutually compulsory, only there is confusion over the fact that the word Jew can denote someone of the Jewish faith (judaism) or someone of Jewish ethnicity.lowing wrote:
Ok I just got done reading the thread, now I have a question:
If a Jew converts to Christianity, is he still a Jew or a Christian??
Or is he a Jewish-Christian??
Not being a smart ass here, just really was curious as to how you resolve that little conflict between religion and ethnicity.
I'm agnostic, but let's suppose I convert to Christianism. I would be a Christian, but I still would be a Jew, because that's heritage, that you carry in your blood. Judaism is a Religion. Many Jews practice Judaism. And many don't.lowing wrote:
Ok I just got done reading the thread, now I have a question:
If a Jew converts to Christianity, is he still a Jew or a Christian??
Or is he a Jewish-Christian??
Not being a smart ass here, just really was curious as to how you resolve that little conflict between religion and ethnicity.