Mike<Eagle23>
BF2sEU old school admin - I don't care who you are
+359|6723|Germany

doctastrangelove1964 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Ryan wrote:

Tried to find something like this, but couldn't.

What do you guys think could have been done better in WWII?
Things that could have increased the overall casualty loss, increased the number of battles won, etc.

I guess you could post things from any war as well.
We could have properly rebuilt Germany after WW1....
If they did WW2 wouldn't have even happened.
Actually there was nothing to rebuild in Germany after WW1. Germany had to surrender because it ran out of resources, not being able to fight anymore. They were not really defeated which allowed the propaganda to invent the so called Dolchstoßlegende.

However, about WW2: The best thing would have been if it never started.

Last edited by Mike<Eagle23> (2007-03-28 17:03:26)

AndrewKF
Member
+3|6363

Commie Killer wrote:

No M4A4(I think its A4 model) Sherman. The gun wasn't worth shit, if we had put a 90mm and well....fuck it, we should of came up with the design for the M26 Pershing sooner.
That's a fact... one of the worst tanks of the war, but even the 90mm wouldn't help. Construction was just crap. To slow, to tall, to weak armor, horrible ammunition compartment... ah well M26 in earlier stage could reduce allied armed losses possibly even by over 25% If I'm wrong, correct me but i think only from M4 family tanks battle worthy was Jumbo M4A3E2 and M4A3(76)W
acEofspadEs6313
Shiny! Let's be bad guys.
+102|6688|NAS Jacksonville, Florida

theexterminator222 wrote:

the allies should've backed the liberals in the Spanish Revolution.  Then the Nazis would get that the allies weren't a bunch of pussies and therefore WWII wouldn't have happened.
The 90mm on the Pershing sucked.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6767|PNW

sergeriver wrote:

A headshot to Hitler in 1939?

Skorpy-chan wrote:

Hitler's entire freaking strategy. He was a moron, someone competent in charge and we'd all be speaking German.
Either that or a 'C&C: Red Alert' scenario.
nukchebi0
Пушкин, наше всё
+387|6319|New Haven, CT
What about the Firefly?

Last edited by nukchebi0 (2007-03-28 18:29:19)

acEofspadEs6313
Shiny! Let's be bad guys.
+102|6688|NAS Jacksonville, Florida

nukchebi0 wrote:

What about the Firefly?
Great gun, but Sherman chassis.
ShellShock.PwN
Member
+31|6783|Barrie Ontario
Bulge, market Garden, just watched 8 hours of Band of brothers the other day....good stuff
Reaper Hilarus
Member
+0|6343

seymorebutts443 wrote:

Reaper Hilarus wrote:

acEofspadEs6313 wrote:


Low velocity 75mm guns aren't as effective as people think they are. I'd take a high velocity 37mm gun over a low velocity 75mm gun any day.
I forgot to mention the high and low velocity, of which the Pnzr III / IV  had a low velocity 37 and 75mm gun.
And I would take the same as you.  The higher the better.
all those french guns mean absolute shit when the Luftwaffe controls the skys and you surprise em. Certainly low level He-111 bombing runs and Ju-87 Stuka attacks demolished their defenses, and french aircraft was no mach for the Me-109s being used. plus the Me-109s could carry out their fair share of ground attack roles, 4 110lb bombs or a single 550lb bomb, more than enough to deal with fixed gun emplacments and armored vehicles the brits and the french had.
Alright. I know.  I said France would have eventually fallen regardless of how much better their tanks were.  You're the one that said ". . .germans would've been forced into retreat."
TuataraDude
Member
+115|6518|Aotearoa
Not invade Russia. Amphibious and paradrop assault on England. Leave the Japanese to do what they want. Not spend so much time and effort on the Super Tiger Tank. Blame all the woes on the Jews. There were plenty of good scientists in that crowd and Hitler would not have had to rely on Heisenberg, the pompous git, to develop the atomic bomb. There were probably quite a few other errors, but those would have been the biggest.
acEofspadEs6313
Shiny! Let's be bad guys.
+102|6688|NAS Jacksonville, Florida

TuataraDude wrote:

Not invade Russia. Amphibious and paradrop assault on England. Leave the Japanese to do what they want. Not spend so much time and effort on the Super Tiger Tank. Blame all the woes on the Jews. There were plenty of good scientists in that crowd and Hitler would not have had to rely on Heisenberg, the pompous git, to develop the atomic bomb. There were probably quite a few other errors, but those would have been the biggest.
For the "Super Tiger Tank," do you mean the E-Series and Maus?
TuataraDude
Member
+115|6518|Aotearoa

acEofspadEs6313 wrote:

For the "Super Tiger Tank," do you mean the E-Series and Maus?
erm....yeah, that's it.
Reaper Hilarus
Member
+0|6343

acEofspadEs6313 wrote:

nukchebi0 wrote:

What about the Firefly?
Great gun, but Sherman chassis.
The Sherman E8 could and did take on T-34/85s in Korea, and it did so very effectively. Also, it fought in the Middle East with Israel against post-WWII Soviet armour.
Reaper Hilarus
Member
+0|6343

TuataraDude wrote:

Not invade Russia. Amphibious and paradrop assault on England. Leave the Japanese to do what they want. Not spend so much time and effort on the Super Tiger Tank. Blame all the woes on the Jews. There were plenty of good scientists in that crowd and Hitler would not have had to rely on Heisenberg, the pompous git, to develop the atomic bomb. There were probably quite a few other errors, but those would have been the biggest.
I highly doubt those were Germany's gravest mistakes.  They could have strangled Britain without the need for an invasion.
Reaper Hilarus
Member
+0|6343

acEofspadEs6313 wrote:

theexterminator222 wrote:

the allies should've backed the liberals in the Spanish Revolution.  Then the Nazis would get that the allies weren't a bunch of pussies and therefore WWII wouldn't have happened.
The 90mm on the Pershing sucked.
Might I ask in what ways did the Pershing gun suck?
acEofspadEs6313
Shiny! Let's be bad guys.
+102|6688|NAS Jacksonville, Florida

Reaper Hilarus wrote:

acEofspadEs6313 wrote:

nukchebi0 wrote:

What about the Firefly?
Great gun, but Sherman chassis.
The Sherman E8 could and did take on T-34/85s in Korea, and it did so very effectively. Also, it fought in the Middle East with Israel against post-WWII Soviet armour.
The E8 and the Firefly aren't the same variant.
Reaper Hilarus
Member
+0|6343
I know they aren't.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6639
10 million people could have had their lives spared from the nazis
acEofspadEs6313
Shiny! Let's be bad guys.
+102|6688|NAS Jacksonville, Florida

Reaper Hilarus wrote:

acEofspadEs6313 wrote:

theexterminator222 wrote:

the allies should've backed the liberals in the Spanish Revolution.  Then the Nazis would get that the allies weren't a bunch of pussies and therefore WWII wouldn't have happened.
The 90mm on the Pershing sucked.
Might I ask in what ways did the Pershing gun suck?
Compared to some german 75mm guns, it was the same.
Reaper Hilarus
Member
+0|6343

acEofspadEs6313 wrote:

Reaper Hilarus wrote:

acEofspadEs6313 wrote:


The 90mm on the Pershing sucked.
Might I ask in what ways did the Pershing gun suck?
Compared to some german 75mm guns, it was the same.
75mm on what tanks? You're probably not talking about the Panzer IV, so is it the Panther?  They have roughly the same velocity, but the Pershing could penetrate more armour.  Obviously that doesn't make it the best, but wasn't the 75 on the Panther pretty good?  So if they were the same, wouldn't it not suck?
acEofspadEs6313
Shiny! Let's be bad guys.
+102|6688|NAS Jacksonville, Florida

Reaper Hilarus wrote:

acEofspadEs6313 wrote:

Reaper Hilarus wrote:


Might I ask in what ways did the Pershing gun suck?
Compared to some german 75mm guns, it was the same.
75mm on what tanks? You're probably not talking about the Panzer IV, so is it the Panther?  They have roughly the same velocity, but the Pershing could penetrate more armour.  Obviously that doesn't make it the best, but wasn't the 75 on the Panther pretty good?  So if they were the same, wouldn't it not suck?
I just think it sucks because a gun that's 15mm smaller can pack the same punch. Just a personal prejudice I guess.
As for the penetration, here's some stats:

M3 90mm gun (using the best type of ammo):

Ammo: HVAP
Velocity: 3,350 ft/s
Degree of Penetration: 30
Penetration at:
500m --- 221mm
1,000m --- 200mm
1,500m --- 177mm
2,000m --- 154mm


75mm KwK 40 L/48 (using best type of ammo)

Ammo: PzGr 40
Velocity: 3,248 ft/s
Degree of Penetration: 30
Penetration at:
500m --- 120mm
1,000m --- 97mm
1,500m --- 77mm

75mm StuK 42 L/70 (using best type of ammo)

Ammo: PzGr 42 HVAP
Velocity: 3,675 ft/s
Degree of Penetration: 30
Penetration at:
500m --- 174mm
1,000m --- 150mm
1,500m --- 127mm
2,000m --- 106mm


If you want, I can post some 88mm stats too.
AndrewKF
Member
+3|6363
88mm FLAK, PaK 43, KwK 43 and other variants from my point of view the best gun of WW2
It was cutting through allied tanks like through butter. Only Russian IS series heavy tanks could survive a direct hit in the front armor from medium or even shorter distance, add to that their 100mm and 122mm guns those tanks were able to engage Panzerkampfwagen VI Sdkfz 181 ( Tiger )as well as King Tiger in combat as an equal.
Oh and back to main question... What could have been done better in WWII?
One of things would be... Allied tanks

Last edited by AndrewKF (2007-03-29 04:07:05)

Hunter/Jumper
Member
+117|6350
In WWII If your were winning your tanks weren't sluging it out with other tanks.

There were racing through lightly defended rear areas. The sherman was designed to be moved by a transporter and rail not chugging around a 3mph through muddy torn up roads and wearing itself out before it reached the front. This greatly enhanced its flexability of employment.

If your tanks are slugging it out head to head you have made a tatical blunder allready.

The " pretty good tank " on the battlefield will allways out preform the state of the art one that is 20 miles away with a broken track and awaiting refuel. On this we can agree.

Last edited by Hunter/Jumper (2007-03-29 07:49:51)

Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6557

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

In WWII If your were winning your tanks weren't sluging it out with other tanks.
Uh, yes they were.  In fact, many attribute the Russian victory to the fact that whilst German tanks were considered superior the Russians had three times as many, meaning that they could just swarm the Germans.

When the Germans went through France they didn't fight much, but that's because France was in the middle of a depression and had a barely functioning military, which the Germans walked around rather than facing in combat.
Reaper Hilarus
Member
+0|6343

acEofspadEs6313 wrote:

I just think it sucks because a gun that's 15mm smaller can pack the same punch. Just a personal prejudice I guess.
As for the penetration, here's some stats:

M3 90mm gun (using the best type of ammo):

Ammo: HVAP
Velocity: 3,350 ft/s
Degree of Penetration: 30
Penetration at:
500m --- 221mm
1,000m --- 200mm
1,500m --- 177mm
2,000m --- 154mm


75mm KwK 40 L/48 (using best type of ammo)

Ammo: PzGr 40
Velocity: 3,248 ft/s
Degree of Penetration: 30
Penetration at:
500m --- 120mm
1,000m --- 97mm
1,500m --- 77mm

75mm StuK 42 L/70 (using best type of ammo)

Ammo: PzGr 42 HVAP
Velocity: 3,675 ft/s
Degree of Penetration: 30
Penetration at:
500m --- 174mm
1,000m --- 150mm
1,500m --- 127mm
2,000m --- 106mm


If you want, I can post some 88mm stats too.
So it seems the Pershing had better penetrating ability, doesn't it? So it didn't suck.  No, I don't need to see the 88.

But I do understand what you mean when you say 15mm smaller guns could be just as good.

Last edited by Reaper Hilarus (2007-03-29 08:38:08)

Hunter/Jumper
Member
+117|6350

Bubbalo wrote:

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

In WWII If your were winning your tanks weren't slugging it out with other tanks.
Uh, yes they were.  In fact, many attribute the Russian victory to the fact that whilst German tanks were considered superior the Russians had three times as many, meaning that they could just swarm the Germans.
Yes they could " Swarm " the Germans and often did. The USSR tactics were never thrifty with the soldiers lives. Their numbers were their asset. Would they have rather found a week spot and punch through into rear areas?  They did it often especially with fast moving armor units supported by highly mobile Cavalry which did well in rugged terrain and could easily keep up. The Soviet Army loved to encircle when it could. Slugging it out head to head may give you a win when you lack the ability or mobility to maneuver, which incidentally became their doctrine later. 

Bubbalo wrote:

When the Germans went through France they didn't fight much, but that's because France was in the middle of a depression and had a barely functioning military, which the Germans walked around rather than facing in combat.
My point exactly they didn't slug it out. France had a pretty big good professional army and good armor but.. they did have a very long frontier to protect and some weak kneed neighbors who refused to grasp the big picture and possible long range results despite the fact that a petty tyrant on the rise had put all his thoughts down on paper for his faithful and anyone else to read...sound familiar. The German armor was exactly what could exploit that. The didn't Find the French tanks or even try and go looking for them, they bypassed them. Many men were captured still on parade grounds.   
You are correct, in your point too. it was not the only reason they achieved victory.
The French were and are Deadly efficient soldiers they just lacked a cohesive political will in their leadership. In the end Some sold them out just for a chance to hold a little power, shit never ends really...

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2024 Jeff Minard