The TRUE End to the Global Warming Debate

2007-03-24 22:31:40

#1

usmarine2007: Banned; +374|6803|Columbus, Ohio

I know this issue is as passionate and divided as religion or Iraq, but the term "fact" being tossed around needs to stop. There is no way to know without a shadow of a doubt if global warming is truly a problem. Why you ask?

Weather.

There is no way in hell anyone can tell me that the earth's weather patterns are not the cause of all this "disturbing" data. Anyone who works in an industry where they read and try and predict weather, know damn well we do not know shit about it. I have been reading and trying to understand and predict weather for almost ten years now, and I am right only about 60% of the time. As for the experts, they are right about 80% of the time.

That is still not accurate enough to tell me that humans or weather is the cause of heating, cooling, floods, hurricanes, etc.

Until we can understand weather completely, there is no way it can be "ruled out" as a cause or the cause of anything.

2007-03-24 22:36:12

#2

TrollmeaT: Aspiring Objectivist; +492|7109|Colorado

I'm glad the debate is over. +1

2007-03-24 22:40:37

#3

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6965|Global Command

Me too!

2007-03-24 23:06:14

#4

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|7111|Canberra, AUS

True. Can't rule it out.

There are, however, a lot of different 'coincidences' that makes your eyebrows raise when you see them. So ATM, we can't rule anything out. I will go for the most accepted theory.

But why are we arguing? Each to his own, eh? I'll worry about global warming (because that affects me), and you worry about the state of your country (because that affects you).

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2007-03-24 23:09:15

#5

usmarine2007: Banned; +374|6803|Columbus, Ohio

Spark wrote:
But why are we arguing? Each to his own, eh? I'll worry about global warming (because that affects me), and you worry about the state of your country (because that affects you).

Because each side is arguing like they "know." I am trying to say, nobody really knows.

2007-03-24 23:12:32

#6

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|7111|Canberra, AUS

usmarine2007 wrote:
Spark wrote:
But why are we arguing? Each to his own, eh? I'll worry about global warming (because that affects me), and you worry about the state of your country (because that affects you).
Because each side is arguing like they "know." I am trying to say, nobody really knows.

Ah, but, technically, since knowledge is defined as justified true belief, and you can't really say anything is 'true', how can you 'know' anything?

*predicts massive brain failure in readers

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2007-03-24 23:21:16

#7

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6965|Global Command

If knowledge is limited to justified true belief, does that mean study of mythology is worthless.

2007-03-24 23:23:00

#8

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|7111|Canberra, AUS

ATG wrote:
If knowledge is limited to justified true belief, does that mean study of mythology is worthless.

If you're plato, it is. Then you run into a bit of trouble.

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2007-03-25 00:03:49

#9

san4: The Mas; +311|7125|NYC, a place to live

It's difficult to accurately predict the weather for a particular day, but it is very possible to predict the average weather over a long period of time. That's what the debate is about.

2007-03-25 00:56:52

#10

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|7111|Canberra, AUS

san4 wrote:
It's difficult to accurately predict the weather for a particular day, but it is very possible to predict the average weather over a long period of time. That's what the debate is about.

Shh, we're on a roll here

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2007-03-25 01:58:10

#11

Spearhead: Gulf coast redneck hippy; +731|7126|Tampa Bay Florida

Global warming is irrelevant, in my view. It's all about the way we use energy. Oil and coal supplies will run out eventually, and if we haven't made a nearly complete transformation over to hydrogen, or something else, we will be screwed. Every country in the world should be on its hands and knees trying to develop alternate fuels.

2007-03-25 02:06:35

#12

Bubbalo: The Lizzard; +541|6998

You do realise that predicting local weather patterns has nothing to do with global warming?

2007-03-25 02:36:12

#13

PureFodder: Member; +225|6722

usmarine2007 wrote:
I know this issue is as passionate and divided as religion or Iraq, but the term "fact" being tossed around needs to stop. There is no way to know without a shadow of a doubt if global warming is truly a problem. Why you ask?

Weather.

There is no way in hell anyone can tell me that the earth's weather patterns are not the cause of all this "disturbing" data. Anyone who works in an industry where they read and try and predict weather, know damn well we do not know shit about it. I have been reading and trying to understand and predict weather for almost ten years now, and I am right only about 60% of the time. As for the experts, they are right about 80% of the time.

That is still not accurate enough to tell me that humans or weather is the cause of heating, cooling, floods, hurricanes, etc.

Until we can understand weather completely, there is no way it can be "ruled out" as a cause or the cause of anything.

Climate.

2007-03-25 02:58:31

#14

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|7111|Canberra, AUS

Don't forget weather =/= climate.

I hate you all for breaking my epistemology train of thought.

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2007-03-25 04:09:44

#15

konfusion: mostly afk; +480|6986|CH/BR - in UK

This thread is going to end up in another discussion, isn't it?

-konfusion

2007-03-25 04:15:24

#16

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7246|Nårvei

Not gonna write all that stuff yet another time !

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2007-03-25 08:43:30

#17

usmarine2007: Banned; +374|6803|Columbus, Ohio

Bubbalo wrote:
You do realise that predicting local weather patterns has nothing to do with global warming?

You do realize that is not what I am saying.

2007-03-25 08:50:26

#18

CameronPoe: Member; +2,925|6992

Spearhead wrote:
Global warming is irrelevant, in my view. It's all about the way we use energy. Oil and coal supplies will run out eventually, and if we haven't made a nearly complete transformation over to hydrogen, or something else, we will be screwed. Every country in the world should be on its hands and knees trying to develop alternate fuels.

QFT. I have recently transferred from being 'OMFG! Man-made global warming!' to now erring slightly on the side of 'OMFG! Man-made global warming is probably bullshit!'. That doesn't make the need to develop alternative sources of energy any less pressing. Exhaustible resources eventually become just that: exhausted....

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-03-25 08:54:40)

2007-03-25 08:53:25

#19

sergeriver: Cowboy from Hell; +1,928|7194|Argentina

Who said the Global Warming debate was over? Just coz Usmarine thinks we can't predict accurately the weather it doesn't mean this debate is over.

2007-03-25 08:56:36

#20

Mitch: 16 more years; +877|6962|South Florida

usmarine2007 wrote:
I know this issue is as passionate and divided as religion or Iraq, but the term "fact" being tossed around needs to stop. There is no way to know without a shadow of a doubt if global warming is truly a problem. Why you ask?

Weather.

There is no way in hell anyone can tell me that the earth's weather patterns are not the cause of all this "disturbing" data. Anyone who works in an industry where they read and try and predict weather, know damn well we do not know shit about it. I have been reading and trying to understand and predict weather for almost ten years now, and I am right only about 60% of the time. As for the experts, they are right about 80% of the time.

That is still not accurate enough to tell me that humans or weather is the cause of heating, cooling, floods, hurricanes, etc.

Until we can understand weather completely, there is no way it can be "ruled out" as a cause or the cause of anything.

Well. coming out of the mouth of usmarine2007 ill respect it, although, i still dont believe that its a man made problem. There are natural raises and cools in the earths climate, im pretty sure we're in the rising time.
Its just the fact that the media/gov has to blame something/someone always. It can never be nature.

Last edited by Dezerteagal5 (2007-03-25 08:57:19)

15 more years! 15 more years!

2007-03-25 09:00:27

#21

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7246|Nårvei

CameronPoe wrote:
Spearhead wrote:
Global warming is irrelevant, in my view. It's all about the way we use energy. Oil and coal supplies will run out eventually, and if we haven't made a nearly complete transformation over to hydrogen, or something else, we will be screwed. Every country in the world should be on its hands and knees trying to develop alternate fuels.
QFT. I have recently transferred from being 'OMFG! Man-made global warming!' to now erring slightly on the side of 'OMFG! Man-made global warming is probably bullshit!'. That doesn't make the need to develop alternative sources of energy any less pressing. Exhaustible resources eventually become just that: exhausted....

Imho it`s a to great risk to not consider man had something to do with it than just continue the way we do now !

To treat global warming as anything else than a threat to the human race and by not trying to do anything about it is the the biggest mistake we can do, the debate on who is right/wrong can easily be done later !

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2007-03-25 09:00:55

#22

Miller: IT'S MILLER TIME!; +271|7192|United States of America

Dezerteagal5 wrote:
usmarine2007 wrote:
I know this issue is as passionate and divided as religion or Iraq, but the term "fact" being tossed around needs to stop. There is no way to know without a shadow of a doubt if global warming is truly a problem. Why you ask?

Weather.

There is no way in hell anyone can tell me that the earth's weather patterns are not the cause of all this "disturbing" data. Anyone who works in an industry where they read and try and predict weather, know damn well we do not know shit about it. I have been reading and trying to understand and predict weather for almost ten years now, and I am right only about 60% of the time. As for the experts, they are right about 80% of the time.

That is still not accurate enough to tell me that humans or weather is the cause of heating, cooling, floods, hurricanes, etc.

Until we can understand weather completely, there is no way it can be "ruled out" as a cause or the cause of anything.
Well. coming out of the mouth of usmarine2007 ill respect it, although, i still dont believe that its a man made problem. There are natural raises and cools in the earths climate, im pretty sure we're in the rising time.
Its just the fact that the media/gov has to blame something/someone always. It can never be nature.

There is also reason to believe mars and other planets are heating also, as a solar cycle occurs. Now we have to eliminate the carbon footprint from the world... jk, oh yeah, when gore plants a tree in someones yard, all he does is take it from someone else. Therefore, nothing is stopped, but as it is a religion to democrats they have been forgiven of their sins against the earth and feel good inside by doing nothing .

2007-03-25 09:03:46

#23

apollo_fi: The Flying Kalakukko.; +94|6967|The lunar module

usmarine2007 wrote:
Bubbalo wrote:
You do realise that predicting local weather patterns has nothing to do with global warming?
You do realize that is not what I am saying.

But could you clarify a bit what it is you're saying, then?

If i put a kettle of water on the stove, it's going to be nigh impossible to predict the individual eddies and currents in the water that result from the addition of energy. The patterns are chaotic, very much like weather patterns.

But I do not need to be able to predict accurately the local phenomena to be able to predict, very accurately, larger scale events. I can, for instance, be fairly certain that once enough energy has been added to heat the water to 100 degrees centigrade, it's going to start boiling.

2007-03-25 09:08:00

#24

usmarine2007: Banned; +374|6803|Columbus, Ohio

In order to understand and predict local weather, you need to understand global weather. Since we do not understand it with 100% accuracy, then there is no way you can toss around words like "fact" when talking about GW.

Last edited by usmarine2007 (2007-03-25 09:08:34)

2007-03-25 09:22:32

#25

apollo_fi: The Flying Kalakukko.; +94|6967|The lunar module

usmarine2007 wrote:
In order to understand and predict local weather, you need to understand global weather. Since we do not understand it with 100% accuracy, then there is no way you can toss around words like "fact" when talking about GW.

OK, I can accept that.

BF2S Forums The TRUE End to the Global Warming Debate

Spark wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

Spark wrote:

ATG wrote:

san4 wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

Dezerteagal5 wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

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