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2007-03-22 22:02:16
Toxicseagull
Member
+10|6245|York
give anything to a ignorant human being and they will die. again its the side affects of X that are dangerous not the actual substance. also as to the remodelling of the proposed drug classification changes one of the strongest suggestions is a complete work out of the education model as the current is ineffective and useless.
as a "younger generation" i would know as ive been through it. its simply appalling. recycled stuff based on myth and legend (that article part i quoted basicily goes against anything your told about lsd). with no real life instances. like what would you do if someone had a panic attack during a trip? or werent enjoying their experiance on X? none of that gets taught.

as to a limit. if you give someone enough alcohol they will die, again cig's are a terrible example as their affects are relatively long term. but even so, i would bet nicotine poisoning would set in pretty quickly.  if we used in our example for instance alcohol, sugar, (even chocolate has a lethal dosage). i would be surprised if X came off worse.

the fact that those labels are going to be on food doesnt change the medical fact behind cigerettes.

and as to your personal inquiry i am not a avid user. im not even a casual user. and just so you know, im not one of those "wahey legalize it" fools. i dont think weed should be legalized. nor any real drug. the only benifit for legalization is to the governments tax bill.


~edit~ in terms you may understand the drug education. - it is like telling the kids not to have sex. whilst giving only horror story's in the hope to scare them out of it, yet also not telling them incase they do have sex how to do it as safe as possible with minimal risk and the consequences involved.

Last edited by Toxicseagull (2007-03-22 22:07:11)

2007-03-22 23:13:24
Fen321
Member
+54|6497|Singularity
Consensual drugs which don't effect others should not be restricted -- for you are assuming an educated adult cannot make that decision for his/her self. The new classification system seems more appropriate, but as someone else has already said i doubt the government will follow through with this change. The war on drugs has no room for a possible shift in priorities -- IMO -- the money is flowing battling the very people they are sworn to protect.

@Toxicseagull

With regards to legalization -- once again the question comes down to are you not legalizing it because you want to help the person that is consenting -- if so where do you get the right to chose for someone -- and if that's not the case if its due to health ramifications -- how does one come to terms with having "legal" drugs which are "worse" for you?
2007-03-22 23:47:20
BVC
Member
+325|6695
I believe any drug, when used responsibly, will not cause harm.  'Responosible use' would mean not driving, not overdoing it, taking appropriate breaks between use and doing it in the right environment, amongst other things.

About a year or so ago I played BF2 while under the effects of LSD.  Aside from making driving the DPV on Dalian Plant much more fun, it was pretty much like playing it after a good coffee...a good "reality anchor" if you will.

Now if you'll excuse me, its friday night.  I've got some beer and some southern comfort, I'm going to go get drunk
2007-03-23 00:00:35
mKmalfunction
Infamous meleeKings cult. Est. 2003 B.C.
+82|6539|The Lost Highway
LSD is less dangerous than weed?

I'm doubting that one. That shit is amazingly scary.
2007-03-23 01:44:35
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|6765|Cambridge (UK)
Yes, LSD is less dangerous than weed. Again it's one of those things you don't really want to be doing if you suffer from a mental illness (and can be dangerous in the sense that it may reveal hidden mental illness), but if you're relatively 'normal'/'sane' and you and the people your with don't do stupid things whilst tripping (like deliberately trying to freak each other out) and you're in a good 'headspace' (e.g. not depressed) before you take it, then it's extremely harmless. Your body safely metabolises LSD.

Another one that's 'mostly harmless' (with the normal caveats of "Don't do it if you're all ready a bit 'one sandwich short of a picnic'") is Ketamine - Dentists used to use it on children (along with a 'trip-blocking agent') - until some kids (for whom the trip blocking agent didn't work) started freaking out...

3 top tips for a good trip:

1. Know what you're doing - research the drug - there is plenty of good and accurate advice available on the web.
2. Know the people you're doing it with - the best people to trip with are your closest friends - the worst is total strangers.
3. Set and setting - 'set' refers to 'mindset' or 'headspace' - don't trip when depressed - think happy thoughts when taking the drug and go with the flow whilst tripping - 'setting' refers to you surroundings - be in a place you like - go out into nature whilst tripping - don't go to the grotiest corner in the darkest alley off the worst backstreet in the amsterdam red-light district.
2007-03-23 03:08:05
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6404|North Carolina

Volatile_Squirrel wrote:

Pubic wrote:

Surprise, surprise, alcohol and tobacco rank higher than cannabis.
I say outlaw alcohol. Most humans turn into a bunch of animals when intoxicated, and I think our society would be better off without it.

As far as tabacco is concerned, get rid of the addictive products(cigarettes), but stay the fuck away from my cigars.
Prohibition didn't work.  It's better to just legalize pot.  When you criminalize something in high demand (no pun intended), then it just gives criminals another market to exploit and profit from.

Last edited by Turquoise (2007-03-23 03:08:38)

2007-03-23 04:08:41
apollo_fi
The Flying Kalakukko.
+94|6530|The lunar module
OK, since we already allow the sales of alcohol, there's no reason to keep less harmful substances illegal, right?

...right.

Picture this: respectable citizens haul shopping carts full of twelve-packs of beer, as usual, and on their way to the check-out, they now find the new recreational drugs department:

Ketamine
Benzodiazepine
Amphetamine
Buprenorfine
Cannabis
4-MTA
LSD
Methylphenidate
GHB
Ecstasy
Alkyl Nitrites
Khat

Mayhem would follow.
2007-03-23 04:59:46
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+794|6684|United States of America

apollo_fi wrote:

OK, since we already allow the sales of alcohol, there's no reason to keep less harmful substances illegal, right?

...right.

Picture this: respectable citizens haul shopping carts full of twelve-packs of beer, as usual, and on their way to the check-out, they now find the new recreational drugs department:

Ketamine
Benzodiazepine
Amphetamine
Buprenorfine
Cannabis
4-MTA
LSD
Methylphenidate
GHB
Ecstasy
Alkyl Nitrites
Khat

Mayhem would follow.
LOLZ, they put the cocaine right next to the flour will they?
2007-03-23 06:52:05
Toxicseagull
Member
+10|6245|York
Fen, good post, and i agree however there is a line that must be crossed. just becouse some drugs are legal in a medicinal purpose does not mean they should be street legal, even pure methadone for instance (as im sure you know used to treat heroin addicts) is highly addictive and damaging to the body. when taking legalisation into consideration i think a lot relies on physical effects and addictiveness. Amsterdam for example tried a "meth bus" handing out free pure methadone to addicts in a area of the city which it became legal to use heroin. to attempt to decriminalise it and get them into rehab or at least off heroin. it failed and heroin users just took more meth as well as their heroin.
i see where your coming from (and this links in to Pubic's post) i think its just down to personal choice that i wouldnt want everything legalised.

i can only second Scorpians great post with his advice, you can really have a great time if the circumstances are right. and even after a few try's you can "steer yourself" away from a bad trip if something happens during the effects.
failing that a big thing to stop X and tripping is to drink vit C , so orange juice, apple anything. it stops shrooms in their path, calms LSD down and completely cuts on the hallucinogenic qualities of X and some of the touchy feely stuff.

i might Add even england shrooms were legalized until last july (a shop in my city sold them) and holland still does.  in england they were only reclassified when they paniced about the "moral effects" of lowering cannibis to a class C and when they jerk reacted shoved Shrooms up as well.
A lot of the problems with drugs comes from complete misinformation and a social acceptance of one thing whilst rejection of another. wihich then again leads to bad education and incomplete knowledge making any problem worse.
2007-03-23 09:06:41
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6649

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Yes, LSD is less dangerous than weed. Again it's one of those things you don't really want to be doing if you suffer from a mental illness (and can be dangerous in the sense that it may reveal hidden mental illness), but if you're relatively 'normal'/'sane' and you and the people your with don't do stupid things whilst tripping (like deliberately trying to freak each other out) and you're in a good 'headspace' (e.g. not depressed) before you take it, then it's extremely harmless. Your body safely metabolises LSD.

Another one that's 'mostly harmless' (with the normal caveats of "Don't do it if you're all ready a bit 'one sandwich short of a picnic'") is Ketamine - Dentists used to use it on children (along with a 'trip-blocking agent') - until some kids (for whom the trip blocking agent didn't work) started freaking out...

3 top tips for a good trip:

1. Know what you're doing - research the drug - there is plenty of good and accurate advice available on the web.
2. Know the people you're doing it with - the best people to trip with are your closest friends - the worst is total strangers.
3. Set and setting - 'set' refers to 'mindset' or 'headspace' - don't trip when depressed - think happy thoughts when taking the drug and go with the flow whilst tripping - 'setting' refers to you surroundings - be in a place you like - go out into nature whilst tripping - don't go to the grotiest corner in the darkest alley off the worst backstreet in the amsterdam red-light district.
I'm curious though, sure perhaps LSD isn't that harmful for you, I can't say I know much about it to judge, but how is weed more harmful? Weed relaxes you, whereas LSD from what I've heard makes you hallucinate, and you can easily over react to this. I have heard a story from a friend where he and a friend did it, and he found his friend sitting in his room with a large kitchen knife, about to go into the other room and kill the 'tiger' that kept 'staring at him'. His cat. In my mind something that brings that out in you is more dangerous than weed.
2007-03-23 09:28:08
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6528|Global Command

Pubic wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6474053.stm

It basically ranks drugs according their level of harm.  Surprise, surprise, alcohol and tobacco rank higher than cannabis.  Discuss.
Study: Alcohol, Tobacco Worse Than Drugs

In research published Friday in The Lancet magazine, Professor David Nutt of Britain's Bristol University and colleagues proposed a new framework for the classification of harmful substances, based on the actual risks posed to society. Their ranking listed alcohol and tobacco among the top 10 most dangerous substances.


http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/879 … index.html
2007-03-23 09:33:51
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6468
Cannabis more deadly than meph? I think they may be high themselves.
2007-03-23 09:54:03
Toxicseagull
Member
+10|6245|York
@Ghetto

there are bad affects to weed. you can have a bad experience and become deeply paranoid (im not speaking long term affect, im speaking whilst under the influence) and loose rational thought. again there is the long term health risk as most people smoke weed. to smoke weed usually you roll with tobacco without a filter. much worse than a cigarette.
however said that i would call bullshit on the tiger story (nothing on you but maybe your friend having a laugh) hallucination's do not make you randomly see tigers or elves or little men or any fairy crap like that. i know at least 10 people apart from myself who have taken LSD even with knives in the vicinity, (hell a few people i know have gone through the day, going to college, walking around town whilst under the influence), and they have never tried to kill anything. anecdotal evidence like the tiger story and my experiences dont count for much to be honest however i would stick to more medical fact.

again, some people shouldn't take it, mindset is a key thing as previous posters have said. but then some people really shouldnt drink, hell some people should stop eating for 5 minutes
2007-03-23 09:56:59
JahManRed
wank
+646|6627|IRELAND

Think what they are saying is that ppl smoke weed every day or at least at the weekend and its carcinogenic.
LSD is only used once in a while and might fuck your head up for a few days, but as long as you have no underlying mental problems you should recover. so the accumulative effect of weed is more.

BTW there is only 2 people left on the planet who are making LSD so its very hard to get your hands on. Plenty of ppl making LSA, which is similar but more of a 'Disco Acid', numbed down version...................emmm, so i'm told.
2007-03-23 10:05:39
Toxicseagull
Member
+10|6245|York
hehe not 2 people but it is certainly rare, and like most street drugs get mixed with other stuff to supplement cost. this is of course a argument for legalization.
2007-03-23 10:21:38
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|6765|Cambridge (UK)

ghettoperson wrote:

I'm curious though, sure perhaps LSD isn't that harmful for you, I can't say I know much about it to judge, but how is weed more harmful?
Weed is more harmfull for you because it's smoked. LSD is ingested, rarely injected and occasionally absorbed through the skin. And as I said before, your body metabolizes it. The psycho-active effects of any halucinogen (and weed is also a halucinogen) can be 'dangerous', but by following the rules I outlined in my previous post, the vast majority of people will experience nothing but good trips. Bad trips are extremely rare. And are usually down to either headstate, environment or the people around the tripper.
2007-03-23 10:29:41
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6581|SE London

CommieChipmunk wrote:

well because tobacco and alcohol use is much greater than cannabis use, it would be more deadly, statistically.
That's not how the rankings work.

mcgid1 wrote:

CoronadoSEAL wrote:

level of harm to body or level of harm to others based on actions while 'high'?
Based on LSD's ranking I'd assume that it's based on level of harm to others.  That stuff causes permanent brain damage in those who use it.
Nope. It's based on harm to self.
LSD does not cause permanent brain damage in those who use it. It can cause breakdowns in mental health, but if it doesn't then you're pretty much ok. There have been numerous studies trying to prove that LSD causes brain or genetic damage, none of those studies have shown that and several have in fact shown that it does not cause such damage.

Volatile_Squirrel wrote:

Yeah, after looking at this graph again, I'm gonna have to call bullshit. People can die from ecstasy from using it once. When was the last time someone died from their first pack of smokes?
People dying from taking Ecstacy is extremely rare. People can die from taking stuff that isn't Ecstacy/MDMA, it can often be mixed with some nasty stuff in pills. Some other people die from drinking either too much or too little water, in the Leah Betts incident that was so famous in the UK it is rarely mentioned that it was actually her parents that killed her by forcing her to drink lots of water when they found out she had taken Ecstacy because they thought that's what you're supposed to do.

People can quite easily die from drinking, not their first beer, but once they're onto the 13-14th then maybe. Especially since teenagers drinking for the first time are amongst the least responsible drinkers around.

Also as far as tobacco and alcohol are concerned:

ATG's link wrote:

Tobacco causes 40 percent of all hospital illnesses, while alcohol is blamed for more than half of all visits to hospital emergency rooms.
I have to say I agree with the rankings for the most part. I don't understand how the BBC managed to find so many Cannabis related deaths though. I know it's only 2, but that's 2 more than I would've expected.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2007-03-23 10:30:09)

2007-03-23 11:19:20
BVC
Member
+325|6695
I just got drunk, and had to dodge boiling water being poured on my nuts after declining the offer of a polyamourous relationship...maybe weed is safer...
2007-03-23 11:25:42
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6649

Pubic wrote:

I just got drunk, and had to dodge boiling water being poured on my nuts after declining the offer of a polyamourous relationship...maybe weed is safer...
What the hells wrong with you? Or was she ugly? Or a man?
2007-03-23 11:31:56
topal63
. . .
+533|6718

Bertster7 wrote:

Volatile_Squirrel wrote:

Yeah, after looking at this graph again, I'm gonna have to call bullshit. People can die from ecstasy from using it once. When was the last time someone died from their first pack of smokes?
... People can quite easily die from drinking, not their first beer, but once they're onto the 13-14th then maybe. Especially since teenagers drinking for the first time are amongst the least responsible drinkers around...
Actually I have known people (personally) who have done various drugs: LSD, cocaine, X-tacy, etc... they are all alive.

But, I know 5 people killed related to alcohol use/abuse. 2 killed by alcohol poisoning (simply drank themselves to death); and 2 that killed themselves in car-accidents.

And 1 that was so drunk that he accidentally turned on a propane tank in the dark, moronically stored in his house, in a stupor, fumbling in the dark, drunk out of his mind, passed out, after inhaling gas hours later woke-up and lit a cig. BOOM. He was so badly burned, inside his lungs, the EMTs arrived and could not save him.

Last edited by topal63 (2007-03-23 11:33:35)

2007-03-23 11:37:33
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6581|SE London

topal63 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Volatile_Squirrel wrote:

Yeah, after looking at this graph again, I'm gonna have to call bullshit. People can die from ecstasy from using it once. When was the last time someone died from their first pack of smokes?
... People can quite easily die from drinking, not their first beer, but once they're onto the 13-14th then maybe. Especially since teenagers drinking for the first time are amongst the least responsible drinkers around...
Actually I have known people (personally) who have done various drugs: LSD, cocaine, X-tacy, etc... they are all alive.
I've done all of those drugs myself many times and whilst you can tell they're not good for you (come downs can be a real bitch) they certainly don't feel any worse for you than a hard nights drinking. I've stopped doing drugs now (weed doesn't count) and I can't say I miss them much. They're fun for a while as a teenager, but that's about it.
2007-03-23 11:44:56
topal63
. . .
+533|6718

Bertster7 wrote:

topal63 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

... People can quite easily die from drinking, not their first beer, but once they're onto the 13-14th then maybe. Especially since teenagers drinking for the first time are amongst the least responsible drinkers around...
Actually I have known people (personally) who have done various drugs: LSD, cocaine, X-tacy, etc... they are all alive.
I've done all of those drugs myself many times and whilst you can tell they're not good for you (come downs can be a real bitch) they certainly don't feel any worse for you than a hard nights drinking. I've stopped doing drugs now (weed doesn't count) and I can't say I miss them much. They're fun for a while as a teenager, but that's about it.
Same here, I have done most, in the distant past, no problems - and my come-down off shrooms sucked! It took way too long, it was like having a hyperactive mystic philosopher in my head (I admit not unlike myself) - that simply would not shut the fuck up! It took a full 24 hours to come down. The buzz, was more a buzzing that would not end.

Even though weed is not present in my life now, it was always a pleasant experience in the past, every time.

Last edited by topal63 (2007-03-23 11:45:23)

2007-03-23 16:14:58
BVC
Member
+325|6695

ghettoperson wrote:

What the hells wrong with you? Or was she ugly? Or a man?
SHE was alright, I'm just not into guys.

This is what alcohol does, kids; some dude wants to plant his balls on your chin, you get in fights and wake up with second degree burns and seventy bucks out of pocket.  Never happened to me on weed.
2007-03-23 16:18:51
cospengle
Member
+140|6486|Armidale, NSW, Australia

Superglueman wrote:

A world without alcohol would be a world in anarchy...

it has been used to keep the non-rich of this world apathetic,docile and confused for hundreds of years, while soothing the guilt of the rich...

I believe that if they banned alcohol,ciggarttes and coffee, most people would gradually wake up and realize that a relatively small amount of people completely control this world and everyone in it, and have for some time.....and the powers that be will NEVER let that happen.....the psychodelic drugs of the 60's were "manufactured" to suppress a whole generation of young people that wanted answers......just like the "stronger" ones pushed at youth today....


Seems like we should just stop questioning them and pronounce them gods...
A world without religion would be a world in anarchy...

it has been used to keep the non-rich of this world apathetic,docile and confused for hundreds of years, while soothing the guilt of the rich...

Seems like we should just stop questioning them and pronounce them gods...
2007-03-23 16:22:09
reaper_654
confused??
+36|6296|ohio,USA
Professor Nutt said  lol that is what is says

 

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