fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6491|Menlo Park, CA
Bottom line, is we demand and deserve better!

George Bush/Dick Cheney, Al Gore, Barrack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Rudy Guiliani, John McCain ALL DONT GIVE A RATS SHIT about any of us. . . . .PERIOD

So my question is WHY SUPPORT/NOMINATE them? Why should any of us support this ragged rabble of unqualified political pricks??  FUCK THEM!!
jonsimon
Member
+224|6496

fadedsteve wrote:

George Bush/Dick Cheney, Al Gore, Barrack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Rudy Guiliani, John McCain ALL DONT GIVE A RATS SHIT about any of us. . . . .PERIOD
I doubt you even comprehend the truth in that statement. Every politician in America is a member of the economic elite class, and none of them knows what it really is to be an American.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6652|USA

jonsimon wrote:

lowing wrote:

I offered the following question in another thread but it was getting off topic. I think it is worth discussing.

Is losing the war on terror especially in Iraq, or the perception of a loss, essential for the democrats to take the white house?

In the other thread I accused democrats of harping negativity and going as far as to ensuring a percieved loss in Iraq and the war on terror to slam dunk the 08 election. If they didn't, they surly would be facing another 4 years with a republican administration. Whatcha think??
Thats a silly question and a moot point. Do democrats have to bash republicans to win? Do republicans have to bash democrats to win? Does a bear shit in the woods?

The answer is moot either way, they may or may not HAVE to, but we can all agree they WILL. Just like the republicans will ridicule the democrats.
Not a moot point because although I agree they always will bash each other, in this case, the democrats are actually hoping the enemy wins to make the republicans look bad.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6652|USA

jonsimon wrote:

fadedsteve wrote:

George Bush/Dick Cheney, Al Gore, Barrack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Rudy Guiliani, John McCain ALL DONT GIVE A RATS SHIT about any of us. . . . .PERIOD
I doubt you even comprehend the truth in that statement. Every politician in America is a member of the economic elite class, and none of them knows what it really is to be an American.
This I absolutely 100% agree with. good response. ( although I am gritting my teeth as I type. )
srog72
Member
+12|6756|Michigan
I'm just sick of the political lies......We have lost over there.....Iraq's Government doesn't have a backbone and the whole debate about staying over there is silly.......How long should we wait for Iraq's Government to grow a backbone???  I dislike views of both political parties.....but I agree its time to pull the plug and let Iraq implode...
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6405|North Carolina

Pierre wrote:

ATG wrote:

As long as we keep a two party system we are defeated.
Do you realy think more parties can change a lot? You'll have several extreme left, left, centre, right and extreme right parties participating in the elections, but in order to get a government and a majority in both houses several parties will have to negociate and make agreements, so in the end the program of the party you voted for will not be executed...
Good points...  still, I would like to see the Greens have more influence.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6405|North Carolina

Stingray24 wrote:

We're talking about what elected Dems are actually doing here to gain that support.  They are guilty of consistently attempting to undermine the efforts of our military during a time of war just to get votes later.  The Republicans responded to 9/11 and did what was necessary.  When it comes to fighting the enemy, elected Dems over the last 40 years have a track record of running and/or appeasing the enemy.  I want a party that is willing to take the fight to the enemy instead of bargaining with them and working against the success of their own country in wartime.
JFK and LBJ weren't exactly appeasers....  The war in Bosnia wasn't about appeasement either.

You might want to amend that statement.  You could argue that Clinton undermined our intelligence agencies through budget cuts.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6405|North Carolina

HunterOfSkulls wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

We're talking about what elected Dems are actually doing here to gain that support.  They are guilty of consistently attempting to undermine the efforts of our military during a time of war just to get votes later.  The Republicans responded to 9/11 and did what was necessary.  When it comes to fighting the enemy, elected Dems over the last 40 years have a track record of running and/or appeasing the enemy.  I want a party that is willing to take the fight to the enemy instead of bargaining with them and working against the success of their own country in wartime.
The republicans have supported those who later become our enemies (Saddam, Noriega, radical Islamics), supported those brutalize their own people and create anti-American sentiment in their countries(Saddam, Pinochet, the Shah, the Duvaliers), were practically the first to run from fundamentalist Muslim terrorists (Lebanon, after the murder of over 200 US Marines by a suicide truck bomb), cloaked appeasement and bargaining behind a facade of tough talk (Reagan and Iran) and only have use for our soldiers so long as they are functional to fight and not saying anything contrary to the party line. Now I have fuck-all worth of use for the Democratic party as a whole; beyond the local and state level I find them to be pandering little windsocks like Hillary Clinton, who promise us change and then fold like an old wallet when one person points at them and shouts "Anti-American!". But please spare me the whole "They're traitors I tells ya!" routine. Convincing yourself that only one side of the aisle or the other engages in this kind of crap is foolish. The Democrats helped ratify the Patriot Act even while complaining that they hadn't read the damn thing, they allowed this war to go on for four years with nothing more than their pathetic non-binding resolution and they've pretty much caved every time the GOP has looked at them sternly. They're not undermining shit; they're making a lot of noise in public and then cooperating anyway. You're right though, they should be taking the fight to the enemy; the enemy that keeps calling them traitors and terrorist-lovers at every opportunity. They should be shutting them up and shutting them down. Until they grow enough of a spine to say "Fuck you, Jack. It's not treason to disagree with you.", I have no use for them.
Again, great post. 
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6562

lowing wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

Except that if you're right and the Democrats are the reason for the perception of a loss, how come the rest of the world is even more pessimistic?
Because win or lose just or not, the most of the EU already hopes for an "arrogant American" defeat.
Oh, I'm sorry, it appears I wasn't clear enough:

Bubbalo wrote:

Except that if you're right and the Democrats are the reason for the perception of a loss, how come the rest of the world is even more pessimistic?
Reminds me of the joke about the UN poll on famine.........................
Major_Spittle
Banned
+276|6655|United States of America
I don't think the Democrats need a perceived loss in Iraq to gain the White House.  The Bush Administration has sorely mismanaged the war in a way that it is costing way too much money and American lives for the lack luster results it is getting.  What we have in Iraq is far from the Democracy that is needed to change the middle east (i.e. Still Islamic based rule).   It is a disgrace how the Administration goes about setting our troops up for failure by holding back our military to protect the people that are protecting the Islamic militants in Iraq.  The US looks weak because of how our military is operating in Iraq and this is what is hurting us when dealing with Iran and Korea.  Why take what the US says seriously, we engage in defeatist political wars that our own congress is split on even when the the mission is clear and the need for success is great.

Anyone who would support the Democrats or Republicans is not a Patriot.  These organizations are merely parasites on the face of humanity and thriving off the stupidity of American people and exploiting weaknesses in the Constitution.
Major_Spittle
Banned
+276|6655|United States of America

Turquoise wrote:

Pierre wrote:

ATG wrote:

As long as we keep a two party system we are defeated.
Do you realy think more parties can change a lot? You'll have several extreme left, left, centre, right and extreme right parties participating in the elections, but in order to get a government and a majority in both houses several parties will have to negociate and make agreements, so in the end the program of the party you voted for will not be executed...
Good points...  still, I would like to see the Greens have more influence.
It is called changing the voting system so a person's vote is weighted by the order they vote for multiple candidates for the same position.  ie. 

a conservative vote may go:  1st choice Perot, 2nd choice Bush, 3rd choice Clinton
a liveral vote may go:  1st choice Clinton, 2nd choice Perot, 3rd choice Bush

Results = Perot Wins, Clinton 2nd, and Bush 3rd: Everyone got somebody the Majority of people wanted, not who they were forced to select from.

But that system is fair and wouldn't perserve the two party coruption system that stupid people vote for and complain about constantly like their is nothing they can do about it.
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6446|The Land of Scott Walker

Major_Spittle wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Pierre wrote:


Do you realy think more parties can change a lot? You'll have several extreme left, left, centre, right and extreme right parties participating in the elections, but in order to get a government and a majority in both houses several parties will have to negociate and make agreements, so in the end the program of the party you voted for will not be executed...
Good points...  still, I would like to see the Greens have more influence.
It is called changing the voting system so a person's vote is weighted by the order they vote for multiple candidates for the same position.  ie. 

a conservative vote may go:  1st choice Perot, 2nd choice Bush, 3rd choice Clinton
a liveral vote may go:  1st choice Clinton, 2nd choice Perot, 3rd choice Bush

Results = Perot Wins, Clinton 2nd, and Bush 3rd: Everyone got somebody the Majority of people wanted, not who they were forced to select from.

But that system is fair and wouldn't perserve the two party coruption system that stupid people vote for and complain about constantly like their is nothing they can do about it.
+1 for that voting idea.  Sounds good.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6652|USA

Bubbalo wrote:

lowing wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

Except that if you're right and the Democrats are the reason for the perception of a loss, how come the rest of the world is even more pessimistic?
Because win or lose just or not, the most of the EU already hopes for an "arrogant American" defeat.
Oh, I'm sorry, it appears I wasn't clear enough:

Bubbalo wrote:

Except that if you're right and the Democrats are the reason for the perception of a loss, how come the rest of the world is even more pessimistic?
Reminds me of the joke about the UN poll on famine.........................
Before you start being a smart ass.................................again, and preaching to me that I don't listen to you. Acknowledge that I accuse the democrats of exploiting the set backs and enjoying the setbacks, I never said they were the cause of them. Start listening.


Secondly, I left out the rest of the world in my post because other than the US and EU, who has spoken up on this issue with such significance that either continent gives a shit? China? Without looking it up, I can't tell you what China thinks about all of this. The news is filled with US and EU parties on Iraq.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6652|USA

HunterOfSkulls wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

We're talking about what elected Dems are actually doing here to gain that support.  They are guilty of consistently attempting to undermine the efforts of our military during a time of war just to get votes later.  The Republicans responded to 9/11 and did what was necessary.  When it comes to fighting the enemy, elected Dems over the last 40 years have a track record of running and/or appeasing the enemy.  I want a party that is willing to take the fight to the enemy instead of bargaining with them and working against the success of their own country in wartime.
The republicans have supported those who later become our enemies (Saddam, Noriega, radical Islamics), supported those brutalize their own people and create anti-American sentiment in their countries(Saddam, Pinochet, the Shah, the Duvaliers), were practically the first to run from fundamentalist Muslim terrorists (Lebanon, after the murder of over 200 US Marines by a suicide truck bomb), cloaked appeasement and bargaining behind a facade of tough talk (Reagan and Iran) and only have use for our soldiers so long as they are functional to fight and not saying anything contrary to the party line. Now I have fuck-all worth of use for the Democratic party as a whole; beyond the local and state level I find them to be pandering little windsocks like Hillary Clinton, who promise us change and then fold like an old wallet when one person points at them and shouts "Anti-American!". But please spare me the whole "They're traitors I tells ya!" routine. Convincing yourself that only one side of the aisle or the other engages in this kind of crap is foolish. The Democrats helped ratify the Patriot Act even while complaining that they hadn't read the damn thing, they allowed this war to go on for four years with nothing more than their pathetic non-binding resolution and they've pretty much caved every time the GOP has looked at them sternly. They're not undermining shit; they're making a lot of noise in public and then cooperating anyway. You're right though, they should be taking the fight to the enemy; the enemy that keeps calling them traitors and terrorist-lovers at every opportunity. They should be shutting them up and shutting them down. Until they grow enough of a spine to say "Fuck you, Jack. It's not treason to disagree with you.", I have no use for them.
It is treason to hope your country loses the war on terror. If the democrats want us to win it, what exactly are they doing to help progress? Or is signaling retreat helping. Oh I am sorry, I mean "re-deployment". They are eating up every bit of negativity that comes out of Iraq, and stifles or plays down anything positive. Or am I wrong? Which does nothing but make the situation worse. By our troops knowing half the country is not interested in their success what else do you want to call it?

Last edited by lowing (2007-03-23 16:40:25)

Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6405|North Carolina

Major_Spittle wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Pierre wrote:


Do you realy think more parties can change a lot? You'll have several extreme left, left, centre, right and extreme right parties participating in the elections, but in order to get a government and a majority in both houses several parties will have to negociate and make agreements, so in the end the program of the party you voted for will not be executed...
Good points...  still, I would like to see the Greens have more influence.
It is called changing the voting system so a person's vote is weighted by the order they vote for multiple candidates for the same position.  ie. 

a conservative vote may go:  1st choice Perot, 2nd choice Bush, 3rd choice Clinton
a liveral vote may go:  1st choice Clinton, 2nd choice Perot, 3rd choice Bush

Results = Perot Wins, Clinton 2nd, and Bush 3rd: Everyone got somebody the Majority of people wanted, not who they were forced to select from.

But that system is fair and wouldn't perserve the two party coruption system that stupid people vote for and complain about constantly like their is nothing they can do about it.
What you've described above is Instant Runoff Voting.  It's a great system, but for obvious reasons, the big two parties don't want to implement it.  If they did, then 3rd parties would grow in power.
Fen321
Member
+54|6498|Singularity

lowing wrote:

HunterOfSkulls wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

We're talking about what elected Dems are actually doing here to gain that support.  They are guilty of consistently attempting to undermine the efforts of our military during a time of war just to get votes later.  The Republicans responded to 9/11 and did what was necessary.  When it comes to fighting the enemy, elected Dems over the last 40 years have a track record of running and/or appeasing the enemy.  I want a party that is willing to take the fight to the enemy instead of bargaining with them and working against the success of their own country in wartime.
The republicans have supported those who later become our enemies (Saddam, Noriega, radical Islamics), supported those brutalize their own people and create anti-American sentiment in their countries(Saddam, Pinochet, the Shah, the Duvaliers), were practically the first to run from fundamentalist Muslim terrorists (Lebanon, after the murder of over 200 US Marines by a suicide truck bomb), cloaked appeasement and bargaining behind a facade of tough talk (Reagan and Iran) and only have use for our soldiers so long as they are functional to fight and not saying anything contrary to the party line. Now I have fuck-all worth of use for the Democratic party as a whole; beyond the local and state level I find them to be pandering little windsocks like Hillary Clinton, who promise us change and then fold like an old wallet when one person points at them and shouts "Anti-American!". But please spare me the whole "They're traitors I tells ya!" routine. Convincing yourself that only one side of the aisle or the other engages in this kind of crap is foolish. The Democrats helped ratify the Patriot Act even while complaining that they hadn't read the damn thing, they allowed this war to go on for four years with nothing more than their pathetic non-binding resolution and they've pretty much caved every time the GOP has looked at them sternly. They're not undermining shit; they're making a lot of noise in public and then cooperating anyway. You're right though, they should be taking the fight to the enemy; the enemy that keeps calling them traitors and terrorist-lovers at every opportunity. They should be shutting them up and shutting them down. Until they grow enough of a spine to say "Fuck you, Jack. It's not treason to disagree with you.", I have no use for them.
It is treason to hope your country loses the war on terror. If the democrats want us to win it, what exactly are they doing to help progress? Or is signaling retreat helping. Oh I am sorry, I mean "re-deployment". They are eating up every bit of negativity that comes out of Iraq, and stifles or plays down anything positive. Or am I wrong? Which does nothing but make the situation worse. By our troops knowing half the country is not interested in their success what else do you want to call it?
I'm going to give you some shocking news-- the WAR ON TERROR -- cannot be WON. Tell me right now how you can win the WAR ON TERROR. All bullshit aside i want you to type out in coherent thoughts how the WAR ON TERROR is going to be WON -- and when i say won i mean every last single fundamentalist wacko DEAD 6 ft under without the possibility of procreating. Hey, even the propaganda i want a plan on how to remove the ideologies that perpetuate this type of action. (Oh and don't skip anything relating to possible third party instigation aka funding of the wackos for proxy wars )


Here I'll save you the trouble because oddly enough this is a trick question that has no answer -- you cannot win the war on terror for it is not a absolute target in which you can though an army at. Even if that were the case a massive army is irrelevant considering the size of the enemy .


One last thing -- tell me how the Republicans have contributed to the failure that is Iraq. If your incapable of shifting your hatred for those that stand against your disillusions of spreading democracy by the sword at least have some testicular fortitude to admit that your own "side" is playing the same game.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6652|USA

Fen321 wrote:

lowing wrote:

HunterOfSkulls wrote:


The republicans have supported those who later become our enemies (Saddam, Noriega, radical Islamics), supported those brutalize their own people and create anti-American sentiment in their countries(Saddam, Pinochet, the Shah, the Duvaliers), were practically the first to run from fundamentalist Muslim terrorists (Lebanon, after the murder of over 200 US Marines by a suicide truck bomb), cloaked appeasement and bargaining behind a facade of tough talk (Reagan and Iran) and only have use for our soldiers so long as they are functional to fight and not saying anything contrary to the party line. Now I have fuck-all worth of use for the Democratic party as a whole; beyond the local and state level I find them to be pandering little windsocks like Hillary Clinton, who promise us change and then fold like an old wallet when one person points at them and shouts "Anti-American!". But please spare me the whole "They're traitors I tells ya!" routine. Convincing yourself that only one side of the aisle or the other engages in this kind of crap is foolish. The Democrats helped ratify the Patriot Act even while complaining that they hadn't read the damn thing, they allowed this war to go on for four years with nothing more than their pathetic non-binding resolution and they've pretty much caved every time the GOP has looked at them sternly. They're not undermining shit; they're making a lot of noise in public and then cooperating anyway. You're right though, they should be taking the fight to the enemy; the enemy that keeps calling them traitors and terrorist-lovers at every opportunity. They should be shutting them up and shutting them down. Until they grow enough of a spine to say "Fuck you, Jack. It's not treason to disagree with you.", I have no use for them.
It is treason to hope your country loses the war on terror. If the democrats want us to win it, what exactly are they doing to help progress? Or is signaling retreat helping. Oh I am sorry, I mean "re-deployment". They are eating up every bit of negativity that comes out of Iraq, and stifles or plays down anything positive. Or am I wrong? Which does nothing but make the situation worse. By our troops knowing half the country is not interested in their success what else do you want to call it?
I'm going to give you some shocking news-- the WAR ON TERROR -- cannot be WON. Tell me right now how you can win the WAR ON TERROR. All bullshit aside i want you to type out in coherent thoughts how the WAR ON TERROR is going to be WON -- and when i say won i mean every last single fundamentalist wacko DEAD 6 ft under without the possibility of procreating. Hey, even the propaganda i want a plan on how to remove the ideologies that perpetuate this type of action. (Oh and don't skip anything relating to possible third party instigation aka funding of the wackos for proxy wars )


Here I'll save you the trouble because oddly enough this is a trick question that has no answer -- you cannot win the war on terror for it is not a absolute target in which you can though an army at. Even if that were the case a massive army is irrelevant considering the size of the enemy .


One last thing -- tell me how the Republicans have contributed to the failure that is Iraq. If your incapable of shifting your hatred for those that stand against your disillusions of spreading democracy by the sword at least have some testicular fortitude to admit that your own "side" is playing the same game.
How to win the war on terror.

All countries take responsibility and offer no safe harbor for the terrorists or their money. Any country that refuses to do this will face such hard sanctions that they will be almost squeezed into submission. It will be made so hard on these countries that helping terrorists simply will not be worth it. I offer Libya as a prime example.

Republican have contributed to the failure of Iraq because they refuse to let the generals run the war. It has become a political quagmire much like Vietnam. I say if you commit our troops to battle, you let them do it, and give them the tools to win it. You do not half ass it. Once the war is won and our troops are home with their families, the politicians can sit around and beat the shit out of one another for all I care and let history judge. But, until the war is over, be you democrat or republican, you support the winning of the war and the troops charged with fighting it. Period.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6675|Canberra, AUS
The US is in a TWELVE PERCENT federal budget deficit.

In my opinion this alone is why Bush and his supporters should be run out of office ASAP. If you can't keep the government in the black you don't deserve to be in office. No excuses.

Last edited by Spark (2007-03-23 19:03:42)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6405|North Carolina

Spark wrote:

The US is in a TWELVE PERCENT federal budget deficit.

In my opinion this alone is why Bush and his supporters should be run out of office ASAP. If you can't keep the government in the black you don't deserve to be in office. No excuses.
I agree, but paranoia trumps fiscal responsibility in America.
HunterOfSkulls
Rated EC-10
+246|6280

lowing wrote:

It is treason to hope your country loses the war on terror.
One: Prove they're hoping that the US loses the war on terror. Conclusively. Actual explicit statements of Democrat politicians saying "I hope we lose the war on terror" or similar. Otherwise it's just bullshit opinion and demonizing propaganda and you're a fool for spreading it. Two: No, no it's not treason. Treason by the legal definition is "to consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid or comfort". Now I know it's tempting to play fast and loose with the "aid and comfort" part, but that does not mean "vote against war". It doesn't mean "oppose troop surge". It means providing actual aid in the form of military intelligence, weapons or other supplies vital to a war effort or actually fighting against the US on behalf of the enemy in wartime. Any looser than that, and you start treading into Stalinesque "enemy of the State" territory.

Let's face it. The Democrats are not going to single-handedly pull the troops out of Iraq. They know damn well Bush is going to veto everything they try and they just don't have the balls for stronger measures. If they did, we wouldn't be where we are now. This war is going to grind on, consuming more lives as it goes, building more resentment and hatred against the US until it is no longer profitable to remain there. Brilliant prosecution of the "war on terror"; let's go into a country run by a formerly US-friendly thug where the original resistance against said thug was left to twist in the wind by our government, wreck their infrastructure, disband their military and police and leave them at the mercy of gangs of fundamentalist nutjobs just waiting for a chance at a power grab. Oh, and the best part is, let's occupy their country with a foreign military force composed of people who don't speak their language, don't respect their customs, generally believe that they're all devious backwards savages and then back up that military force with a good helping of slay-for-pay scumbags with no military or civilian oversight who shoot at them for shits and giggles. Fucking BRILLIANT. Obviously anything other than that is surely treason and sure to lose the "war on terror".
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6562

lowing wrote:

Before you start being a smart ass.................................again, and preaching to me that I don't listen to you. Acknowledge that I accuse the democrats of exploiting the set backs and enjoying the setbacks, I never said they were the cause of them. Start listening.
Except that I never said that you did make that claim.

Not that I'd ever suggest that you responded without actually reading my post .


lowing wrote:

Secondly, I left out the rest of the world in my post because other than the US and EU, who has spoken up on this issue with such significance that either continent gives a shit? China? Without looking it up, I can't tell you what China thinks about all of this. The news is filled with US and EU parties on Iraq.
https://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i87/Ankellagung/worldmap.gif

Funny looking world you've got there........................

And I'm not even bothering to comment on the ridiculousness of suggesting that the whole of Europe is out to get you.....................
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6652|USA

HunterOfSkulls wrote:

lowing wrote:

It is treason to hope your country loses the war on terror.
One: Prove they're hoping that the US loses the war on terror. Conclusively. Actual explicit statements of Democrat politicians saying "I hope we lose the war on terror" or similar. Otherwise it's just bullshit opinion and demonizing propaganda and you're a fool for spreading it. Two: No, no it's not treason. Treason by the legal definition is "to consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid or comfort". Now I know it's tempting to play fast and loose with the "aid and comfort" part, but that does not mean "vote against war". It doesn't mean "oppose troop surge". It means providing actual aid in the form of military intelligence, weapons or other supplies vital to a war effort or actually fighting against the US on behalf of the enemy in wartime. Any looser than that, and you start treading into Stalinesque "enemy of the State" territory.

Let's face it. The Democrats are not going to single-handedly pull the troops out of Iraq. They know damn well Bush is going to veto everything they try and they just don't have the balls for stronger measures. If they did, we wouldn't be where we are now. This war is going to grind on, consuming more lives as it goes, building more resentment and hatred against the US until it is no longer profitable to remain there. Brilliant prosecution of the "war on terror"; let's go into a country run by a formerly US-friendly thug where the original resistance against said thug was left to twist in the wind by our government, wreck their infrastructure, disband their military and police and leave them at the mercy of gangs of fundamentalist nutjobs just waiting for a chance at a power grab. Oh, and the best part is, let's occupy their country with a foreign military force composed of people who don't speak their language, don't respect their customs, generally believe that they're all devious backwards savages and then back up that military force with a good helping of slay-for-pay scumbags with no military or civilian oversight who shoot at them for shits and giggles. Fucking BRILLIANT. Obviously anything other than that is surely treason and sure to lose the "war on terror".
Do you mean treason "It means providing actual aid in the form of military intelligence,", in the form of printing it in the NY Times?? 


Or how about: "I voted to threaten the use of force to make Saddam Hussein comply with the resolutions of the United Nations. "
John F. Kerry  Then wants to cut and run. or redeploy the trops AFTER 3000 were killed


"I'm an internationalist. I'd like to see our troops dispersed through the world only at the directive of the United Nations. "
John F. Kerry    treason
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6652|USA

Bubbalo wrote:

lowing wrote:

Before you start being a smart ass.................................again, and preaching to me that I don't listen to you. Acknowledge that I accuse the democrats of exploiting the set backs and enjoying the setbacks, I never said they were the cause of them. Start listening.
Except that I never said that you did make that claim.

Not that I'd ever suggest that you responded without actually reading my post .


lowing wrote:

Secondly, I left out the rest of the world in my post because other than the US and EU, who has spoken up on this issue with such significance that either continent gives a shit? China? Without looking it up, I can't tell you what China thinks about all of this. The news is filled with US and EU parties on Iraq.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i87/A … rldmap.gif

Funny looking world you've got there........................

And I'm not even bothering to comment on the ridiculousness of suggesting that the whole of Europe is out to get you.....................
"Except that if you're right and the Democrats are the reason for the perception of a loss, how come the rest of the world is even more pessimistic?"<-----------you said this.

Never said the whole EU is "out to get us"..........I said that that MOSt of the EU hopes for an American defeat. I never suggested that the EU was the one to defeat us or "out to get us". Start listening.

I also never said the whole world was the US and the EU. Start listening
jonsimon
Member
+224|6496

Fen321 wrote:

I'm going to give you some shocking news-- the WAR ON TERROR -- cannot be WON. Tell me right now how you can win the WAR ON TERROR.
U.S. Federal Plan for victory in Iraq:
1. Restore some ordered government to Iraq whose decisions are under heavy US influence.
2. Declare victory because your goal never was to defeat terrorists.

U.S. Federal Fallback Plan for victory in Iraq:
1. Fail to restore an ordered government under US influence.
2. Withdraw and declare victory because the US never loses.
Magius5.0
Member
+106|6382|UMass Amherst

Fen321 wrote:

I'm going to give you some shocking news-- the WAR ON TERROR -- cannot be WON. Tell me right now how you can win the WAR ON TERROR. All bullshit aside i want you to type out in coherent thoughts how the WAR ON TERROR is going to be WON -- and when i say won i mean every last single fundamentalist wacko DEAD 6 ft under without the possibility of procreating. Hey, even the propaganda i want a plan on how to remove the ideologies that perpetuate this type of action. (Oh and don't skip anything relating to possible third party instigation aka funding of the wackos for proxy wars )


Here I'll save you the trouble because oddly enough this is a trick question that has no answer -- you cannot win the war on terror for it is not a absolute target in which you can though an army at. Even if that were the case a massive army is irrelevant considering the size of the enemy .


One last thing -- tell me how the Republicans have contributed to the failure that is Iraq. If your incapable of shifting your hatred for those that stand against your disillusions of spreading democracy by the sword at least have some testicular fortitude to admit that your own "side" is playing the same game.
This man speaks the truth: since 2001 we have been fighting a 'war' we cannot win.  The enemy, according to the definition of the terms 'terror' 'terrorist' and 'extremists', is pretty much everywhere--even our own country, if you count the gun nuts out west who have those sick little cults who wait for the day the US government falls apart.  No matter what we do, there will always be people who are bent on anarchy and the destruction of others: the power to inflict fear over others and grant themselves power through that fear in the process.  We beat the Taliban in 2001-2002, we flattened them, and then we diverted some troops to Iraq in the dumbest f*cking war this side of Vietnam--guess what?  As soon as we left, the Taliban came out of their caves and went back to inflicting terror on the general population--because that's the only way they know how to rule.  I read in the news time to time the resurgence of this terrorizing entity, and it saddens me that we failed in Afghanistan when our leaders decided there were bigger fish to fry in Iraq.  (Source: wikipedia, located Here)  It took a while, but in 2006, they found their way back with even more sadistic attacks: suicide bombings, probably inspired the by the insurgence within Iraq. 

Our administration was naive to foolishly pin this war on a noun that can be anyone and anywhere...terrorism has existed in many forms since the early 1800's (if not earlier) with anarchists who orchestrated assassinations on political and military leaders of various countries.  What, did they think they could win?  We attacked Iraq because some dipshit president who I don't give a rats' ass about anymore said 'Look, they've got a leader with WMD's, he must be a terrorist and he must be stopped.'  Flash forward four and a half years later, and we've created more terrorists, a whole gaggle of them...failure is on the hands of every american who didn't speak out, or at least the ones who have the ability to do so--so Democrats, while they did criticize the war, they didn't take enough measures to make it stop.  Republicans dropped the f*cking ball because those greedy bureaucrats were thinking 'ZOMIGOD, we need to go and steal this oil by putting in our megacorporate buildings' while not thinking of the repercussions of our occupation of a region that simply does not like occupation.  And sending in our troops in smaller quantities than the pentagon wanted.  And expecting to be done by 2005 when they had no clue what they were getting in to.

So we're now at the present.  Elections are twenty months away, give or take...and each side is flinging so much shit that Washington DC looks like a manure farm.  We need...and everyones gonna hate me for this...a guy with no connection to industry...a guy who doesn't cave like the French during any form of offensive...a guy who will cut the shit and say 'fuck this, this war on terror is stupid, lets quit'.  Sadly, I'm not seeing any front-runners who fit the bill--unless I've missed something among the shit-flinging.

So have I got this straight?  We can't win a war on a non-specific entity that can occur anytime, anywhere--you need names, faces to attack...start with those, not just 'everyone who is a terrorist', becuase as it stands, you're pretty much declaring war on half middle east with that definition.

And for fucks sake, how much effort does it take to hunt down Bin Laden?  That raggamuffin mofo has been laughing at us for close to ten years!

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