lowing
Banned
+1,662|6621|USA
I offered the following question in another thread but it was getting off topic. I think it is worth discussing.

Is losing the war on terror especially in Iraq, or the perception of a loss, essential for the democrats to take the white house?

In the other thread I accused democrats of harping negativity and going as far as to ensuring a percieved loss in Iraq and the war on terror to slam dunk the 08 election. If they didn't, they surly would be facing another 4 years with a republican administration. Whatcha think??

Last edited by lowing (2007-03-21 19:54:59)

G3|Genius
Pope of BF2s
+355|6596|Sea to globally-cooled sea
I think the Dems are power hungry.  They had been out of the Senate since 1994 and have been out of the whitehouse for 8 years.  They are desparate.  They rely on emotion, and it is working.  Al Gore is scaring us.  Hillary is running her propoganda mill...it's all appeal to emotion.

this whole Iraq is a failure thing is another emotional debate.  no one really ACTUALLY knows what's going on there.  The debate is not actually intellectual.

They are pathetic.

+1 for being republican
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6415|The Land of Scott Walker
In order to profit politically, the elected or hoping to be elected Dems seem to be investing in the defeat of the US in Iraq.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6621|USA

Stingray24 wrote:

In order to profit politically, the elected or hoping to be elected Dems seem to be investing in the defeat of the US in Iraq.
agreed,  (as usual)...
G3|Genius
Pope of BF2s
+355|6596|Sea to globally-cooled sea
check this thread out.  I'm surprised at the results so far:  http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=67314&p=1

edit--not a digression.  it's the same attitude that you address in this thread, which is why i bring it up

good night! (bedtime)

Last edited by G3|Genius (2007-03-21 20:04:57)

Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

G3|Genius wrote:

I think the Dems are power hungry.  They had been out of the Senate since 1994 and have been out of the whitehouse for 8 years.  They are desparate.  They rely on emotion, and it is working.  Al Gore is scaring us.  Hillary is running her propoganda mill...it's all appeal to emotion.

this whole Iraq is a failure thing is another emotional debate.  no one really ACTUALLY knows what's going on there.  The debate is not actually intellectual.

They are pathetic.

+1 for being republican
And the War on Terror isn't about making Americans paranoid?...

Seriously, we'd be better off with a party more concerned about domestic concerns and removing our dependency on sketchy nations like Saudi Arabia than the Republicans or the Democrats.

Fuck this bullshit interventionism and so-called "free trade."  Fair trade is what we need, as well as better domestic security, and more energy independence.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6621|USA

G3|Genius wrote:

check this thread out.  I'm surprised at the results so far:  http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=67314&p=1

edit--not a digression.  it's the same attitude that you address in this thread, which is why i bring it up

good night! (bedtime)
see ya, yeah I have posted in that thread and I agree with your last post in it.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6621|USA

Turquoise wrote:

G3|Genius wrote:

I think the Dems are power hungry.  They had been out of the Senate since 1994 and have been out of the whitehouse for 8 years.  They are desparate.  They rely on emotion, and it is working.  Al Gore is scaring us.  Hillary is running her propoganda mill...it's all appeal to emotion.

this whole Iraq is a failure thing is another emotional debate.  no one really ACTUALLY knows what's going on there.  The debate is not actually intellectual.

They are pathetic.

+1 for being republican
And the War on Terror isn't about making Americans paranoid?...

Seriously, we'd be better off with a party more concerned about domestic concerns and removing our dependency on sketchy nations like Saudi Arabia than the Republicans or the Democrats.

Fuck this bullshit interventionism and so-called "free trade."  Fair trade is what we need, as well as better domestic security, and more energy independence.
hold on Turquise, it is a new thread and not even 5 posts long yet.........answer the OP then speak yer mind, please.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

lowing wrote:

I offered the following question in another thread but it was getting off topic. I think it is worth discussing.

Is losing the war on terror especially in Iraq, or the perception of a loss, essential for the democrats to take the white house?

In the other thread I accused democrats of harping negativity and going as far as to ensuring a percieved loss in Iraq and the war on terror to slam dunk the 08 election. If they didn't, they surly would be facing another 4 years with a republican administration. Whatcha think??
I think of it more in terms of opportunism...  Most red states are gaining electoral votes while many blue ones are losing them.  The Republican dominance in the 90s and in recent years is merely a reflection of differences in demographics.  Although the extremely bad handling of Iraq cost them that dominance in November.

In short, while the Democrats are very negative, they are also pointing out legitimate faults in your party's leadership.

Here's a hint: don't run a neoconservative in '08.  Run a real conservative.
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6415|The Land of Scott Walker
With the stranglehold the environmentalist religion has on the Democratic Party I seriously doubt we'd ever become more energy independent with them in power.  I think it's about time to tell the envirowackos to piss off and drill in Alaska and build more nuclear plants.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

Stingray24 wrote:

drill in Alaska and build more nuclear plants.
I'm cool with that.
pirana6
Go Cougs!
+682|6261|Washington St.
Bullshit. Whatever makes you feel better that this war was a bad idea; find someone to blame it on that had nothing to do with it. Bush has record low approval rating because he is a fuck-up, and DEAR GOD before any republican admits that they must blame everyone else. Losing the war won't ensure anything for the Democrats, it's purely because everyone in this country (except for the close-minded, butt-fucks from Deliverance, Missouri) has realized that a republican president runs this country into the ground. Even after all this, a country like ours won't elect a black man or a white girl. I predict McCain in 08, and while he won't be as bad as our current retard he'll still spend billions of dollars killing our men who kill other men, that could be spent saving millions of lives in places like central Africa.
I'm moving.
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6415|The Land of Scott Walker

Turquoise wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

drill in Alaska and build more nuclear plants.
I'm cool with that.
Sweet.   Now were'd I put that oil rig . . .
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6337|Columbus, Ohio

Turquoise wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

drill in Alaska and build more nuclear plants.
I'm cool with that.
Aye.  Drill the bitch.  We bought it for the price of a Starbucks faggachino, let's use it.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

pirana6 wrote:

Bullshit. Whatever makes you feel better that this war was a bad idea; find someone to blame it on that had nothing to do with it. Bush has record low approval rating because he is a fuck-up, and DEAR GOD before any republican admits that they must blame everyone else. Losing the war won't ensure anything for the Democrats, it's purely because everyone in this country (except for the close-minded, butt-fucks from Deliverance, Missouri) has realized that a republican president runs this country into the ground. Even after all this, a country like ours won't elect a black man or a white girl. I predict McCain in 08, and while he won't be as bad as our current retard he'll still spend billions of dollars killing our men who kill other men, that could be spent saving millions of lives in places like central Africa.
I'm moving.
I suggest Canada.  I might be moving there myself in the near future.  Toronto looks nice.
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6489|Πάϊ

Stingray24 wrote:

In order to profit politically, the elected or hoping to be elected Dems seem to be investing in the defeat of the US in Iraq.
I agree. Only I don't think that anything is expected to happen, as (it may be) insinuated in the OP. The 4 years that have passed are considered to be the defeat itself. So yes, under the circumstances, the war in Iraq seems to be the greatest failure of the current administration, and thus the Democrats' greatest "asset" in the upcoming elections.
ƒ³
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6621|USA

pirana6 wrote:

Bullshit. Whatever makes you feel better that this war was a bad idea; find someone to blame it on that had nothing to do with it. Bush has record low approval rating because he is a fuck-up, and DEAR GOD before any republican admits that they must blame everyone else. Losing the war won't ensure anything for the Democrats, it's purely because everyone in this country (except for the close-minded, butt-fucks from Deliverance, Missouri) has realized that a republican president runs this country into the ground. Even after all this, a country like ours won't elect a black man or a white girl. I predict McCain in 08, and while he won't be as bad as our current retard he'll still spend billions of dollars killing our men who kill other men, that could be spent saving millions of lives in places like central Africa.
I'm moving.
Interesting how the war on terror is a "bad idea", not, however, flying planes into our buildings killing thousands, which started the war in the first place.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6499|Global Command

Stingray24 wrote:

In order to profit politically, the elected or hoping to be elected Dems seem to be investing in the defeat of the US in Iraq.
As long as we keep a two party system we are defeated.

But yes, dems seem to be harping for a defeat in the ME.
WTF does " why should never have went" have to do with anything?
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6621|USA

oug wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

In order to profit politically, the elected or hoping to be elected Dems seem to be investing in the defeat of the US in Iraq.
I agree. Only I don't think that anything is expected to happen, as (it may be) insinuated in the OP. The 4 years that have passed are considered to be the defeat itself. So yes, under the circumstances, the war in Iraq seems to be the greatest failure of the current administration, and thus the Democrats' greatest "asset" in the upcoming elections.
can't find anything to disagree with here, this, in fact, is probably more accurate. However, the fact that democrats are enjoying it is undeniable.
13rin
Member
+977|6449

Turquoise wrote:

G3|Genius wrote:

I think the Dems are power hungry.  They had been out of the Senate since 1994 and have been out of the whitehouse for 8 years.  They are desparate.  They rely on emotion, and it is working.  Al Gore is scaring us.  Hillary is running her propoganda mill...it's all appeal to emotion.

this whole Iraq is a failure thing is another emotional debate.  no one really ACTUALLY knows what's going on there.  The debate is not actually intellectual.

They are pathetic.

+1 for being republican
And the War on Terror isn't about making Americans paranoid?...

Seriously, we'd be better off with a party more concerned about domestic concerns and removing our dependency on sketchy nations like Saudi Arabia than the Republicans or the Democrats.

Fuck this bullshit interventionism and so-called "free trade."  Fair trade is what we need, as well as better domestic security, and more energy independence.
Um, no. It is about defeating those willing to harm the US before they do it?  Are you afraid of the government looking in on what web sites you visit or fishing for "hot words"?  If the US stops one terrorist attack and saves one life (it may be someone you care about), then it's worth it.  I have nothing to hide.  Do you?

Since when are the Dems more concerned with national security?  They water down the Patriot Act, impose more restrictive gun laws, block the mexico/us wall,  want to pardon all illegal emmigrants, all while leasing out conference rooms in the capitol to groups that are sympathetic to Al quaida and its cause.  What the hell that about?  OK. Lets disarm the US citizens while refusing to protect the borders, legalize the emigration invasion while letting assholes who want me&you (yes you too) dead hold meetings on how to fuck us all over -in our own Capitol.  Brilliant!  How the hell do you top that?  I know who I want to vote for!

More energy independence would be great, but it doesn't help when your posterboy manbearpig (and the rest of the liberal left elite) are jetting about everywhere on a private jets.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

lowing wrote:

I offered the following question in another thread but it was getting off topic. I think it is worth discussing.

Is losing the war on terror especially in Iraq, or the perception of a loss, essential for the democrats to take the white house?

In the other thread I accused democrats of harping negativity and going as far as to ensuring a percieved loss in Iraq and the war on terror to slam dunk the 08 election. If they didn't, they surly would be facing another 4 years with a republican administration. Whatcha think??
Not essential, but a good political ploy (they think). But 'woe is us' attitudes do little to win hearts and minds.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2007-03-21 20:50:15)

Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|6660|Tampa Bay Florida

lowing wrote:

oug wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

In order to profit politically, the elected or hoping to be elected Dems seem to be investing in the defeat of the US in Iraq.
I agree. Only I don't think that anything is expected to happen, as (it may be) insinuated in the OP. The 4 years that have passed are considered to be the defeat itself. So yes, under the circumstances, the war in Iraq seems to be the greatest failure of the current administration, and thus the Democrats' greatest "asset" in the upcoming elections.
can't find anything to disagree with here, this, in fact, is probably more accurate. However, the fact that democrats are enjoying it is undeniable.
The fact that you're not a Democrat and you also have no clue what the hell you're talking about half the time you post invalidates your point.  No one finds war enjoyable.  Republicans would be doing the exact same shit if they were in the Dems position.  It's called politics.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Um, no. It is about defeating those willing to harm the US before they do it?  Are you afraid of the government looking in on what web sites you visit or fishing for "hot words"?  If the US stops one terrorist attack and saves one life (it may be someone you care about), then it's worth it.  I have nothing to hide.  Do you?
That's another issue entirely.  I was talking about our warfare.  Since you brought it up though, I think Republicans have completely lost any legitimate claim to wanting smaller government ever since they created the Patriot Act.  If a Democratic president signed that into law, you'd have impeached him.

I don't have anything to hide, but I'm not going to voice any support over having the government spy on me.

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Since when are the Dems more concerned with national security?  They water down the Patriot Act, impose more restrictive gun laws, block the mexico/us wall,  want to pardon all illegal emmigrants, all while leasing out conference rooms in the capitol to groups that are sympathetic to Al quaida and its cause.  What the hell that about?  OK. Lets disarm the US citizens while refusing to protect the borders, legalize the emigration invasion while letting assholes who want me&you (yes you too) dead hold meetings on how to fuck us all over -in our own Capitol.  Brilliant!  How the hell do you top that?  I know who I want to vote for!
Watering down the Patriot Act isn't necessarily a bad thing.  It's called due process.

I'm with you on the gun thing, because I am an ardent gun rights supporter.

As for illegal immigrants, get the companies to stop hiring them, and you solve half the problem right there.  Another issue to resolve is to amend this citizenship by birth policy.  Citizenship should be slightly harder to attain than the current laws make it.

I don't follow you on the Al Quida sympathizers thing.  You'll have to elaborate on that one.

DBBrinson1 wrote:

More energy independence would be great, but it doesn't help when your posterboy manbearpig (and the rest of the liberal left elite) are jetting about everywhere on a private jets.
I agree that Al Gore is a hypocrite.  I've moved away from the whole global warming thing to focus more on immediate concerns like how power plants and other industries can generate enough pollutants to cause respiratory illnesses in certain areas.  My brother has chronic bronchitis largely because of my city's pollution.  That's the kind of pollution issue we need to focus on -- keeping corporate negligence from getting people sick.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

Spearhead wrote:

lowing wrote:

oug wrote:

I agree. Only I don't think that anything is expected to happen, as (it may be) insinuated in the OP. The 4 years that have passed are considered to be the defeat itself. So yes, under the circumstances, the war in Iraq seems to be the greatest failure of the current administration, and thus the Democrats' greatest "asset" in the upcoming elections.
can't find anything to disagree with here, this, in fact, is probably more accurate. However, the fact that democrats are enjoying it is undeniable.
The fact that you're not a Democrat and you also have no clue what the hell you're talking about half the time you post invalidates your point.  No one finds war enjoyable.  Republicans would be doing the exact same shit if they were in the Dems position.  It's called politics.
"Republicans would be doing the exact same shit if they were in the Dem's position." So you're saying that the Dems are doing something here?

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2007-03-21 21:22:09)

Sgt.Gene
...
+215|6734

Spearhead wrote:

lowing wrote:

oug wrote:


I agree. Only I don't think that anything is expected to happen, as (it may be) insinuated in the OP. The 4 years that have passed are considered to be the defeat itself. So yes, under the circumstances, the war in Iraq seems to be the greatest failure of the current administration, and thus the Democrats' greatest "asset" in the upcoming elections.
can't find anything to disagree with here, this, in fact, is probably more accurate. However, the fact that democrats are enjoying it is undeniable.
The fact that you're not a Democrat and you also have no clue what the hell you're talking about half the time you post invalidates your point.  No one finds war enjoyable.  Republicans would be doing the exact same shit if they were in the Dems position.  It's called politics.
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