javierwar
Member
+9|6299|Mexico

Blehm98 wrote:

BN wrote:

Would thermite cut that [the I beams] and leave the molten metal there?
it would be very difficult to cut through that many solid beams of steal with thermite.  One beam is probably two feet in across from the looks of that picture, and therefore most of the steel would be inches thick...  Now assuming that the beams were horizontal, you could place some thermite paste onto a beam, and cut completely through it within a few minutes.  But these beams are vertical, which would mean that you would have to place a little bit on at a time to make sure the thermite didn't just cut downward instead of across the beam.  Which would make a single beam take a very long time to cut through with thermite.  And of course you'd have to have a lot of thermite to cut through just one beam, let alone the amount in the towers.  Someone entering and leaving a building with a backpack would ring a bell somewhere


not only this, but when thermite is ignited it makes a very loud hissing cracking sound, which would be very difficult to hide under any circumstance.  This coupled with the time it would take to cut through the beams would make it almost impossible to cut through the beams with thermite before you are caught
I was merely pointing out that it is possible. Which you can't really deny. Sure it would be very difficult but given enough time and funding it isn't impossible.

I never said it happened this way because then I would be lying. A theory is still a theory, without any conclusive proof.
Blehm98
conservative hatemonger
+150|6494|meh-land
it is a theory that is as good as nothing because it essentially is assuming that too many coincidences happen for it to be realistic.  There is no way you would not get caught trucking thermite into a building, regardless of the way you are transporting it, which in and of itself destroys the theory, and the rest of it is near impossible as well.  Someone would notice the extremely loud hissing sounds, or the same guy disappearing into a support maintanance area throughout a day

and over time someone would notice that the steel beams are taking damage, so it would impossible to do it over months too
javierwar
Member
+9|6299|Mexico

Kmarion wrote:

javierwar wrote:

NeXuS4909 wrote:

If the government killed the thousands of citizens, why not kill dylan avery? One more wont hurt eh?
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net … 911_morons
Are you condoning murder of your idealogical opponent on a public forum? Nice.
He is not condoning it, he is just pointing out the absurdity of having an exremely large amount of people involved in a conspiracy yet not being able to shut a kid and his camcorder up.
"Why not kill Dylan Avery" is in my book condoning murder. Now we could argue if this would be an pure adult forum, but in here are also a lot of teenagers and even younger kids who might not get the same expression as you did.
Blehm98
conservative hatemonger
+150|6494|meh-land
he is taking a quote off the internet

he is asking 'If the government killed 3000 people, why wouldn't they kill just one guy if he's a possible threat?  They obviously wouldn't have any moral qualms about it'

that is all he is saying

edit: the guy on that website completely misunderstood glenn beck lol, he was being sarcastic when he did the stuff about 9/11...  glenn beck's gotta be one of the most conservative radio show hosts in the US right now

Last edited by Blehm98 (2007-03-04 22:17:12)

NeXuS
Shock it till ya know it
+375|6373|Atlanta, Georgia
and age has nothing to do with what im saying. Good job on assuming things. Im expressing my opinion as dylan avery did. Why not kill him if they had already taken 3000 lives? That doesnt mean i hate him or want him dead. Get YOUR facts straight.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6632|132 and Bush

javierwar wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

javierwar wrote:


Are you condoning murder of your idealogical opponent on a public forum? Nice.
He is not condoning it, he is just pointing out the absurdity of having an exremely large amount of people involved in a conspiracy yet not being able to shut a kid and his camcorder up.
"Why not kill Dylan Avery" is in my book condoning murder. Now we could argue if this would be an pure adult forum, but in here are also a lot of teenagers and even younger kids who might not get the same expression as you did.
El esta ablando del punto de vista de un asesino.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
javierwar
Member
+9|6299|Mexico

Blehm98 wrote:

it is a theory that is as good as nothing because it essentially is assuming that too many coincidences happen for it to be realistic.  There is no way you would not get caught trucking thermite into a building, regardless of the way you are transporting it, which in and of itself destroys the theory, and the rest of it is near impossible as well.  Someone would notice the extremely loud hissing sounds, or the same guy disappearing into a support maintanance area throughout a day

and over time someone would notice that the steel beams are taking damage, so it would impossible to do it over months too
A theory is a conclusion you make based on your interpretation of the known facts without having conclusive evidence to support it. Assuming coincidences is not a theory.

Again I never said they were trucking thermite into a building, I never said they used thermite at all.

I was merely pointing out that it isn't impossible given enough time and funding.
djphetal
Go Ducks.
+346|6367|Oregon
God damnit you people like to waste your time...
nobody will ever "win" these arguments, so stop trying.
I don't think the government had anything to do with planning or executing 9/11. I do believe they could have prevented it.
I also believe bush and his cronies have used 9/11 in a very sinister way regarding Iraq.
Most of this conspiracy shit is bullcrap. Some of it has legitimate backing, but without EVERYTHING being correct, none of it can because that would cause a breakdown in the chain, and we, the people would know by now.
If you lie, you have to lie to cover the first lie. if there is a failure in this chain, it all goes to shit.
So... some of it is obviously wrong. That makes is highly improbable that any of it is right.
Now, i'm liberal... very liberal, but it's paranoia that has started this theory, and by being paranoid and fearful, all you do is feed the mentality you are supposedly fighting against.
Shut up.
Grow up.
And then talk to me about JFK... because that one is seriously fucked up.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6632|132 and Bush

Stop wasting your time and lets talk about the conspiracy theory that is 40 years old...lol
Xbone Stormsurgezz
djphetal
Go Ducks.
+346|6367|Oregon

Kmarion wrote:

Stop wasting your time and lets talk about the conspiracy theory that is 40 years old...lol
you caught me...

something about JFK is way too interesting.
Hey... nobody's flawless. Plus I'm tired.
javierwar
Member
+9|6299|Mexico

NeXuS4909 wrote:

and age has nothing to do with what im saying. Good job on assuming things. Im expressing my opinion as dylan avery did. Why not kill him if they had already taken 3000 lives? That doesnt mean i hate him or want him dead. Get YOUR facts straight.
You might not see age as an issue, but I do as a parent and I would not like it when my daughter read such a statement, because she still would not understand completely the context of what this discussion is about and could get the wrong impression. Even most thirteen year olds would not understand completely the context on a discussion about geopolitical issues.

Your comment was inappropriate and unnecessary. You could have worded it differently and with more substance.


Regarding getting facts straight: Your statement contains no actual facts so I can't get them straight.
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6680

djphetal wrote:

God damnit you people like to waste your time...
nobody will ever "win" these arguments, so stop trying.
I don't think the government had anything to do with planning or executing 9/11. I do believe they could have prevented it.
I also believe bush and his cronies have used 9/11 in a very sinister way regarding Iraq.
Most of this conspiracy shit is bullcrap. Some of it has legitimate backing, but without EVERYTHING being correct, none of it can because that would cause a breakdown in the chain, and we, the people would know by now.
If you lie, you have to lie to cover the first lie. if there is a failure in this chain, it all goes to shit.
So... some of it is obviously wrong. That makes is highly improbable that any of it is right.
Now, i'm liberal... very liberal, but it's paranoia that has started this theory, and by being paranoid and fearful, all you do is feed the mentality you are supposedly fighting against.
Shut up.
Grow up.
And then talk to me about JFK... because that one is seriously fucked up.
Yeah, I'm with you on that one. What I will say though, is that the government and everyone else have just added to these theories, with their constant changing of the 'facts', and how incredibly secretive they insist on being about the whole thing.

EDIT: Oh and btw, here is a site that 'debunks' the BBC video. Personally, I hate the word, but it does make a few good points. I largely found the video to be rather disappointing, and didn't really provide any in depth answers to the theories.

Last edited by ghettoperson (2007-03-05 07:04:57)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6632|132 and Bush

ghettoperson wrote:

Yeah, I'm with you on that one. What I will say though, is that the government and everyone else have just added to these theories, with their constant changing of the 'facts', and how incredibly secretive they insist on being about the whole thing.

EDIT: Oh and btw, here is a site that 'debunks' the BBC video. Personally, I hate the word, but it does make a few good points. I largely found the video to be rather disappointing, and didn't really provide any in depth answers to the theories.
Try this one http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm#reporter

As they point out, Did they really need even MORE people involved?
http://www.debunking911.com/massivect.htm
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Echo
WOoKie
+383|6751|The Netherlands

BN wrote:

HunterOfSkulls wrote:

If you really want to get them going, point out how steel support beams don't have to melt in order to fail. That always pisses them off.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGE … _small.jpg

I am no expert but that looks cut to me.

There are plenty of good unanswered questions along with a lot of shite as well.
I studied precious metals for 2 years at a school for goldsmiths so i know a thing or 2 about metal. It looks like both beams are cut with a torch but you cant tell when they were cut, before or after the towers collapsed. I m assuming the beams were cut after the tower collapsed. They were probably cut because they posed a thread to the emergency crews working there.

Anyways i just watched the bbc documentary. Interesting stuff and pretty cool that the bbc concluded in the end there was at least a conspiracy from the us government after the attacks to cover up 'the mistakes they made'... I ve also seen loose change and this doc goes into alot of the stuff from loose change. Cool but who should you believe, maybe there's some truth to be found in both sides of the story.

The bbc doc didn't answer the question why some of the 19 hijackers turned up in some middle eastern county alive and well. The guy that called his mom from united 93 giving his full name. When was the last time you called you mom telling her your full name? Imo there's alot of questions unanswered and i doubt if we ll ever learn what happened on the 9th of november 6 years ago.

Last edited by Echo (2007-03-05 10:40:49)

RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|6746|US
javierwar, your argument begs the question, "why would a thirteen year old who does not understand what is being discussed, read all of this?"  If you do not want your daughter reading such statements, either ask her not to visit sites like this or restrict them.

This is D&ST...yes, it usually falls below that level, but please realize the intent of the section.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6632|132 and Bush

RAIMIUS wrote:

javierwar, your argument begs the question, "why would a thirteen year old who does not understand what is being discussed, read all of this?"  If you do not want your daughter reading such statements, either ask her not to visit sites like this or restrict them.

This is D&ST...yes, it usually falls below that level, but please realize the intent of the section.
It didn't even fall below level. If you look at what NeXuS4909 wrote initially, he said why not kill Dyaln Avery? Meaning obviously if the government could get this many people to go along with the conspiracy couldn't they just kill Avery to shut him up. He wasn't just saying let's kill him. He had difficulty placing what Nexxus was saying in context so he decided to scold him.

Echo the guy gave his full name out of habit, he was a business man. It was something his family joked about and poked fun at him for.

Last edited by Kmarion (2007-03-05 11:37:12)

Xbone Stormsurgezz
javierwar
Member
+9|6299|Mexico

RAIMIUS wrote:

javierwar, your argument begs the question, "why would a thirteen year old who does not understand what is being discussed, read all of this?"  If you do not want your daughter reading such statements, either ask her not to visit sites like this or restrict them.

This is D&ST...yes, it usually falls below that level, but please realize the intent of the section.
Do YOU read only stuff you already understand?

My statement stays as it is:

His comment was inappropriate and unnecessary. He could have easily worded it different and added more substance. But I guess a one liner without any further explanation is considered by you and him as a legit form of Debate & Serious Talk.

I will not discuss this issue further in this thread, as it is completely off topic. If you insist to further discuss this, feel free to open a new thread and I will gladly participate.
UGADawgs
Member
+13|6352|South Carolina, US

Kmarion wrote:

javierwar wrote:

NeXuS4909 wrote:

If the government killed the thousands of citizens, why not kill dylan avery? One more wont hurt eh?
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net … 911_morons
Are you condoning murder of your idealogical opponent on a public forum? Nice.
He is not condoning it, he is just pointing out the absurdity of having an exremely large amount of people involved in a conspiracy yet not being able to shut a kid and his camcorder up.


Those involved include...
-The Bush Administration, who failed at everything they ever did. Yet all of them and the people below are helping him cover up the largest mass murder in US history... Some of them like Richard Clarke and Paul O'Neil have come out for less.

-The NYC Fire fighters who know more about building collapses than most, if not all, of them. It's their LIFE to know. Literally! Yet they don't call for an investigation into the MASS MURDER of over 300 of their brothers... Why? (The twisting of these peoples’ statements for donations and DVD sales sickens me.) We have uncovered the myth about a gag order imposed on all fire fighters. Only 9/11 conspiracy sites say this. ONE person who sued Bush for not taking action before the event is ordered by the court not to speak to the media about the case. This is not imposing a gag order on the whole fire department as some of these sites claim. They are lying to cover up this mass murder by the government or the building owner. Why? They don't even know...


Many of these men and women come from the military, yet we are to believe they are so afraid they rather die in the government’s next mass murder than come out and expose this.

-The courts for imposing a gag order [SEE above]

-The NYC Police department who lost over 20 lives. They didn't ask for an investigation. Motive? None...

-The NYC port Authority who lost personnel. Motive?

-All the people in the Pentagon who have not called for an investigation. Many who are liberal and centrist. They did or said nothing while people supposedly trucked in airplane parts to cover the crime. Why? Again, no answer...

-The more than 1,600 widows and widowers of 9/11 who would rather have investigations of the decisions which led to the terrorist getting away with this. They don't want to waste time investigating the mass murder of their loved ones. Even the Jersey Girls. Why? They say it's the money... [note: Whenever killing someone, pay off the relative. They won’t say anything.]

-The media (This one I almost believe) who doesn't follow up on the biggest mass murder and conspiracy in American history. It seems no one wants a Nobel prize for journalism. Not only the American media but foreign press like the BBC and Al Jazeera. Why? No answer here either...

-The photographers from around the world who took pictures of the towers which clearly show bowing of the perimeter columns. These photos support the NIST hypothesis that the sagging trusses lead to the collapse. Some photos also show the core intact shortly after collapse which also not only support the NIST hypothesis but discredits the "Controlled demolition" account.

-Popular Mechanics who debunked these sites are also helping Bush commit the biggest mass murder in history.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science … 27842.html

-PBS Nova since they created a documentary explaining in detail how and why the buildings fell. None of it said bomb.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/

-Everyone in the NIST who covers up the largest mass murder in US history. This independent organization doesn't have a moral person in hundreds of employees because not one has come out exposing this so called "Conspiracy". In fact, the hundreds of scientist who signed onto the report are willing to not only lie for Bush but cover up the largest mass murder in American history. Some suggest only a handful can do the job but that's simply impossible. The team in charge of the computer modeling has to be in sync with the team of structural engineers and so on. There are hundreds involved in this investigation and every team has to work with other teams using the same evidence and specifications.

-NY Governor Pataki because he sold steel from the WTC for the construction of the USS New York. If the argument is the government sold the steel in order to cover up the crime then Pataki is one of the criminals.

-The NY city scrap yards because they also sold steel to China before all of it was tested. Bush would have needed to call them up and tell them to sell it before they could have investigated every beam. A task which would have taken years and years not to mention millions more. Ironically the republican Mayor Bloomberg could not be involved since he asked the scrap yards not to sell the steel on behalf of the firefighters.

-EVERY STRUCTURAL ENGINEER IN THE WORLD who doesn't write a paper for a mainstream peer reviewed journal saying the towers were brought down and could not have fallen due to fire. If laymen can prove things just by looking at videos and reading interviews out of context, then all those structural engineers MUST be working for Bush right? Even the ones in other countries. Why? The answer they give is that the engineers don't know about Jones’ work. So in all this time no one has e-mailed Jones' work to any structural engineer?

-The liberals who don't believe the towers were brought down. (Like me) They're helping a neo-con cover-up the largest mass murder in this nation’s history. Why? No clue...

-The CIA

-The FBI

-FEMA

-The American Society of  Civil Engineers who have produced peer reviewed papers showing how what Conspiracy Theorists say is impossible is possible.

-NORAD

-The FAA who saw planes which conspiracy theorists never existed.

-The Silverstein Group who they say got together with Bush to blow up the building for insurance money.

-Silverstein's Insurance Company who didn't question the collapse and paid out over 2 billion to Silverstein. Why? Conspiracy Theorists say the insurance company just wants to pass on the bill to the public but they already fought Silverstein in a number of law suits concerning the amount.

-American Airlines (Pentagon)

-United Airlines (Pentagon)

-Logan, Newark and Dulles Airport for losing the planes

-Scientists and engineers who developed the remote control plane technology

-Installers of the remote control devices in the planes (Pentagon)

-Remote controllers of the planes (Pentagon)

-Scientists and engineers who developed the new demolition technology and carried out practical tests and computer models to make sure it would work.

-Installers of the demolitions devices in the three buildings

-People who worked at the company(s) the installers used as cover

-Airphone etc employees who said they got calls from passengers (Pentagon)

-Faux friends and relatives of the faux passengers or just the faux relatives who claim to have been called by their loved ones or just the psyops who fooled relatives into thinking they really were their loved ones. (Pentagon)

-People who detonated the buildings"

-anyone who thinks the conspiracy is a diversion to take liberal activist focus off of real crimes.

Even conspiracies with a few people are doomed. Look at Enron and Watergate. The more people you involve, the more likely the conspiracy will fall apart. The amount of people needed for this conspiracy could fill one of the towers. It's absurd to think this many people could keep a mass murder for Bush secret for this long.


But not Dylan Avery..Absurd...................
Come now, you know a proper satire of conspiracy theories aren't complete without some kind of reference mocking the conspiracy theorists' obsessions with a Zionist mastermind!
BN
smells like wee wee
+159|6799

Echo wrote:

The bbc doc didn't answer the question why some of the 19 hijackers turned up in some middle eastern county alive and well. The guy that called his mom from united 93 giving his full name. When was the last time you called you mom telling her your full name? Imo there's alot of questions unanswered and i doubt if we ll ever learn what happened on the 9th of november 6 years ago.
exactly, why did most of the hijackers turn up alive and well?

Why was all the metal and debris taken away so quickly? The crime of the century and everything is buried somewhere in asia.

What was Mohammad Atta doing on Jack Abramoffs casino boat?
javierwar
Member
+9|6299|Mexico

BN wrote:

exactly, why did most of the hijackers turn up alive and well?

Why was all the metal and debris taken away so quickly? The crime of the century and everything is buried somewhere in asia.

What was Mohammad Atta doing on Jack Abramoffs casino boat?
You have a link to a credible source who confirms that by any chance?

BTW here is a link to the BBC article about the Hijackers who are still alive: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm
topal63
. . .
+533|6749

javierwar wrote:

BN wrote:

exactly, why did most of the hijackers turn up alive and well?

Why was all the metal and debris taken away so quickly? The crime of the century and everything is buried somewhere in asia.

What was Mohammad Atta doing on Jack Abramoffs casino boat?
You have a link to a credible source who confirms that by any chance?

BTW here is a link to the BBC article about the Hijackers who are still alive: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm
It is one thing to claim that someone is alive - it is another to provide proof.

I have never seen proof that any "doubtful" hijackers are alive. I would think those called out as terrorists of 9/11; yet alive and well; would have a vested interest in coming forward and saying, "look at me, I 'm alive - I didn't do it!"
BN
smells like wee wee
+159|6799

javierwar wrote:

You have a link to a credible source who confirms that by any chance?
I read about it some time ago. A google search has revealed a few links...not sure if they are credible...

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&a … &meta=
javierwar
Member
+9|6299|Mexico

topal63 wrote:

javierwar wrote:

BN wrote:

exactly, why did most of the hijackers turn up alive and well?

Why was all the metal and debris taken away so quickly? The crime of the century and everything is buried somewhere in asia.

What was Mohammad Atta doing on Jack Abramoffs casino boat?
You have a link to a credible source who confirms that by any chance?

BTW here is a link to the BBC article about the Hijackers who are still alive: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm
It is one thing to claim that someone is alive - it is another to provide proof.

I have never seen proof that any "doubtful" hijackers are alive. I would think those called out as terrorists of 9/11; yet alive and well; would have a vested interest in coming forward and saying, "look at me, I 'm alive - I didn't do it!"
Reading sometimes helps to avoid looking like an idiot, from the article:
Saudi Arabian pilot Waleed Al Shehri was one of five men that the FBI said had deliberately crashed American Airlines flight 11 into the World Trade Centre on 11 September.

His photograph was released, and has since appeared in newspapers and on television around the world.
Now he is protesting his innocence from Casablanca, Morocco.

He told journalists there that he had nothing to do with the attacks on New York and Washington, and had been in Morocco when they happened. He has contacted both the Saudi and American authorities, according to Saudi press reports.
javierwar
Member
+9|6299|Mexico

BN wrote:

javierwar wrote:

You have a link to a credible source who confirms that by any chance?
I read about it some time ago. A google search has revealed a few links...not sure if they are credible...

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&a … &meta=
I tried to find something myself, but all what came up is from some heavily biased sites. But thanks anyway.
topal63
. . .
+533|6749

javierwar wrote:

Reading sometimes helps to avoid looking like an idiot, ...
Well this idiot stands by his original claim & statement - no proof none, nada, zip, zero - period.

Alive and well - is now an Internet myth.
http://www.911myths.com/html/waleed_al- … alive.html
Waleed and Wail were both mistakenly reported to have been found alive and well, by the BBC later in 2001. They were initially reported in error by a Saudi newspaper editor as the sons of Ahmed Alshehri, a senior Saudi diplomat stationed in Bombay, India. On September 16, 2001, the diplomat Ahmed Alshehri denied that he was the father of the two hijackers. Wail claims he did attend Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Daytona Beach, Florida - but was the victim of mistaken identity, since he used that training to secure his current position with a Moroccan airline company. Saudi Arabia has confirmed his story, and suggested he was the victim of identity theft.

Muhammad Ali Al-Shihri, the hijacker al-Shehri brothers' true father, was identified prior to September 17, 2001, and told Arab News that he hadn't heard from his sons in ten months prior to September 2001.[11] An ABC News story in March 2002 repeated this, and during a report entitled "A Saudi Apology" for Dateline NBC on Aug 25 2002, NBC's reporter John Hockenberry traveled to 'Asir, where he interviewed the third brother, Salah, who agreed that his two brothers were dead and claimed they had been "brainwashed".

Furthermore another article explains that the pilot who lives in Casablanca was named Walid al-Shri (not Waleed M. al-Shehri) and that much of the BBC information regarding "alive" hijackers was incorrect according to the same sources used by BBC.

Last edited by topal63 (2007-03-05 15:18:21)

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