dshak
Member
+4|6867
anyone else kind of upset that they didn't add the IDF? I mean common, in my most humble of opinions there are really three special forces units in the world that are an absolute MUST for a game called SPECIAL FORCES, the SEALS, the Spetz (though not sure if they are still really as strong as they once were), and the Israeli Defense Force special commandos. I mean seriously, the IDF special forces might even be the the best in the world at this point.

I could see MAYBE they would have left them out for political purposes, though I hardly see how having IDF vs MEC would be any less controversial than US vs MEC (not that I think EITHER is controversial in a VIDEO GAME, but I digress)

They also would have brought a whole host of new and interesting weapons into the game, but maybe thats why they didn't do it, too much work?
shaunboulton
Member
+1|6819
No way is the IDF the best in the world, its the SAS, how many times do i have to say it. SAS is the best in the world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, for those who have read  this post.
Kingswat
Member
+0|6809
considering the SAS, SASR, SBS, JTF2 and many other countries special forces are much better then most of the american, Im upset they didn't add anyone else.


IDF = terrorists
pfcilng
Member
+0|6821|Northern Illinois University
Well, my dad can beat up your dad........


Will turn into one of these pretty quick
shspunkrockr
Member
+0|6807

dshak wrote:

anyone else kind of upset that they didn't add the IDF? I mean common, in my most humble of opinions there are really three special forces units in the world that are an absolute MUST for a game called SPECIAL FORCES, the SEALS, the Spetz (though not sure if they are still really as strong as they once were), and the Israeli Defense Force special commandos. I mean seriously, the IDF special forces might even be the the best in the world at this point.

I could see MAYBE they would have left them out for political purposes, though I hardly see how having IDF vs MEC would be any less controversial than US vs MEC (not that I think EITHER is controversial in a VIDEO GAME, but I digress)

They also would have brought a whole host of new and interesting weapons into the game, but maybe thats why they didn't do it, too much work?
i totally agree with u that the IDF should be in here, probably rather than spetz, but was bothers me about this game is that there is no Army SF, because the only "special forces unit in the US is the Army SF, everything else is "special operations" or "SOCOM"...if u look on the cover of SF the patch on that guys arm is an Army special forces patch. I'm not sure, but i think it is the 5th special forces group, but i know for sure it is Army SF....wat im saying is that EA should have done a little more studying, because they are giving people the wrong ideas on the historical accuracy of some of the United States finest fighting units.
chitlin
Banned
+36|6817
nothing beats the military might of the american navy seal, marine corps green berret, and army rangers ..

any other opinon can lick my hairy beanbag ^^

all other organizations attempt to emulate the perfection that is the american war machine =0
shspunkrockr
Member
+0|6807

chitlin wrote:

nothing beats the military might of the american navy seal, marine corps green berret, and army rangers ..

any other opinon can lick my hairy beanbag ^^

all other organizations attempt to emulate the perfection that is the american war machine =0
did u say "Marine Corps Green Beret" or "Marine Corps, Green Beret"?
jamiecracker
Member
+17|6802|Wollongong,Australia
hahahaha SAS was the first and will always be the best,they rely on skill and endurance not technology like the americans(not saying that they aint good)
Dizik
It tastes like burning
+23|6869|Moore, OK
Nobody on these forums are involved with a country's Special Forces, therefore everybody's opinion means jack shit. Any opinion saying that X is better than Y is arbitrary. Considering that there's no way to actually judge who is better, then why even argue about it? Oh wait...I forgot, this is the internet. Let the flaming begin.
jamiecracker
Member
+17|6802|Wollongong,Australia
tooo true Dizik
shspunkrockr
Member
+0|6807
i never said one was better than the others. I'm saying that EA has a whole bunch of shit historically fucked up.
chitlin
Banned
+36|6817
of course its opinion based and im biased but i think the american elite groups have proven themselves ..and are not reliant on anyhting technological to survive... i belive if you look at the training of seals / rangers it is more invloved and at a higher level than anyone else IMO

you have to almost kill yourself many times to become a seal yay!
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|6829|Noizyland

The IDF are brilliant though. This is what the did to one guy who they needed to assassinate, (I'll call him Mr. X because I can't remember his name.:
They scrambled his cellphone, so he couldn't recieve or send anything. Of course Mr. X, (who dosn't know what's happening,) takes his phone to a repair place. While it is there, the IDF plants a small explosive in it. When the guy gets it back, Mr. X finds it works perfectly. One of the first calls he gets goes something like this:
"Hello?"
"Hello, is this Mr. X?"
"Yes, who's this?"
The conversation ended about then as the IDF triggered the explosive and took off Mr. X's head.

That's just a cool way to assassinate someone, but the IDF are one of the best Special Forces in the world and should have been included in BF:SF.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
shspunkrockr
Member
+0|6807
just so everyone knows, most of the SEAL's training is provided by the Army
Kingswat
Member
+0|6809

chitlin wrote:

of course its opinion based and im biased but i think the american elite groups have proven themselves ..and are not reliant on anyhting technological to survive... i belive if you look at the training of seals / rangers it is more invloved and at a higher level than anyone else IMO

you have to almost kill yourself many times to become a seal yay!
welcome to most of the advanced traits in the armed forces, para rescue(sar tech), sf, clearance divers and so on.
dshak
Member
+4|6867
Okay....
first of all.... I didn't mean to start a "my dad can beat up your dad" argument as someone else on here suggested. The only point I will counter is that guy who says the SAS are better because they don't rely on technology like american SF do.

This is a ridiculous statement. A) they use just as much technology, and B) anyone who knows ANYTHING about SEAL training would never, ever, say that.

The IDF are probably the most potent SF in the world and here is why, they have much of the same, training, tech, etc etc as everybody else, the difference is in operational experience. While most modern SF operators spend a large amount of time training and a small amount, well, operating... the IDF are constantly forced to conduct live excercises (because the brains of western civ decided somehow it would be a good idea to create Israel right in the middle of the Islamic Fundamentalist world) Whether its raids into Palestinine or home security actions, I'd be willing to bet the IDF SF have nearly 10 times the operational experience of any SF unit in the world.

I'm an american. not jewish. no ties at ALL to Israel... but those guys are BAD MOTHER F**KERS. PERIOD.

Also, for the guy who said "IDF=terrorists"... I won't defend them or attack them, except to say I don't think you have a right to either, that is, unless you also happen to live in a country surrounded by enemies, constantly under attack, and where people tend to be blown into pieces while sitting at their favorite coffee shop or pizza parlor. They are aggressive, they are proactive, they are controversial indeed... but they are also dealing with an equally if not more aggressive culture hell bent on destroying their country, one that only understands one means of negotiation themselves - murder.

My OPINION is that they are the best, but only because they are forced to be every time the wake up and get out of bed. There isn't another elite unit in the world that has the "workload" the IDF has.

Last edited by dshak (2005-12-03 22:41:25)

Kingswat
Member
+0|6809

dshak wrote:

Okay....
first of all.... I didn't mean to start a "my dad can beat up your dad" argument as someone else on here suggested. The only point I will counter is that guy who says the SAS are better because they don't rely on technology like american SF do.

This is a ridiculous statement. A) they use just as much technology, and B) anyone who knows ANYTHING about SEAL training would never, ever, say that.

The IDF are probably the most potent SF in the world and here is why, they have much of the same, training, tech, etc etc as everybody else, the difference is in operational experience. While most modern SF operators spend a large amount of time training and a small amount, well, operating... the IDF are constantly forced to conduct live excercises (because the brains of western civ decided somehow it would be a good idea to create Israel right in the middle of the Islamic Fundamentalist world) Whether its raids into Palestinine or home security actions, I'd be willing to bet the IDF SF have nearly 10 times the operational experience of any SF unit in the world.

I'm an american. not jewish. no ties at ALL to Israel... but those guys are BAD MOTHER F**KERS. PERIOD.

Also, for the guy who said "IDF=terrorists"... I won't defend them or attack them, except to say I don't think you have a right to either, that is, unless you also happen to live in a country surrounded by enemies, constantly under attack, and where people tend to be blown into pieces while sitting at their favorite coffee shop or pizza parlor. They are aggressive, they are proactive, they are controversial indeed... but they are also dealing with an equally if not more aggressive culture hell bent on destroying their country, one that only understands one means of negotiation themselves - murder.
Well, Most of the developed nations special forces have hands on experience, but unlike israel, they don't brag about it. 

Afghanistan is pretty much a special forces super bowl, providing hands on experience to regular army, air force, marines, and special forces personnel. 


By the way, the SAS has been doing this alot longer then israel.
dshak
Member
+4|6867
the amount of time they've been "doing it" has pretty much nothing to do with their current effectiveness. especially as the nature of warfar has changed so much over the last few decades.
Agwood69
Member
+0|6818|West Coast

Dizik wrote:

Nobody on these forums are involved with a country's Special Forces, therefore everybody's opinion means jack shit. Any opinion saying that X is better than Y is arbitrary. Considering that there's no way to actually judge who is better, then why even argue about it? Oh wait...I forgot, this is the internet. Let the flaming begin.
REALLY??? hhmm... I guess you know it all then..... so tell me then MR. "I know everything.." where am I employed? it aint walmart...

you should not speak with so much confidence about things you do not know..
kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|6898|Bryan/College Station, TX
Well all stupid arguments aside...

I actually lke the Spetz being in SF just because I like the change of environment. IN truth I could careless if they have a SF force filled with poorly trained imigrants from some 3rd world country. I just want to see a more diverse map selection. The addition of a more northern type terrain was nice. Give me more maps and different terrain and I would be happy. Screw expansion sets with more weapons and other coutnries. Give me an expansion set with like 10 new maps. Now THAT I would happily get.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
General Zod
Member
+0|6847|Behind my rifle
I would have boycotted BF2: SF, had the Isayeret been in the game.

They're not so much an SOF as they are death/assassination squads.
batman_psu
Member
+3|6805
In case anyone is not sure of the American Army Spec Ops community, here's the break down:

US Army Special Forces = "The Green Berets" - John F Kennedy actually coined the phrase as a name for those guys when he saw a demonstration by a few guys at a ceremony.  The dude on the cover of the BF2:SF case is wearing a Special Forces unit patch. ALL SF Groups wear this as their unit patch.  1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 10th all wear it.  19th and 20th I'm not too sure about b/c they are Reserve/Guard SF units.  FYI, each SF team is called an SF-ODA team.  Special Forces Operational Detachment Alpha.  Its the core team that SF guys operate in.  12 dudes usually.  Called an "A-Team."  Hence the title of the TV show.  And everyone pretty much knows what SF-ODD is now, yeah?  Special Forces Operational Detachment Delta.  "Delta Force."  Thats where they get their name.   The head honchos and creators of Delta Force (Charlie Beckwith) traveled over to England and visited with the SAS and witnessed their training first hand and modeled the tactics/techniques/organization of the DBoys directly after the SAS.


US Army Rangers = There are 2 kinds of Rangers in the US Army.  1 kind are those who attend and complete the 9 week US Army Ranger School and then return to their units.  The other kind, the one's those in the Army call the "real Rangers" are those who are part of the 75th Ranger Regiment, which falls under the US Army Special Operations Command (along with Special Forces, 160th SOAR, and Delta).  The 75th is made up of 3 Battalions, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.  Although these guys are technically under SOCOM, they are pretty much airborne infantry with a huge budget.  They get all the new toys first and top notch training.  They are also one of the only units that have a "tryout" to get into.  And its no joke either.  And one of the requirements for staying in the 75th is to successfully complete Ranger School or else you get the boot.  Also, the 75th has a Recon Detachment that basically mimics the kinds of missions and stuff that Delta does.  They go undercover in target areas and stuff like that.  Long hair and civilian clothes, etc.

Marine Corps Force Recon:  don't know much about these guys except that I went to Airborne School with a few of them.  Pretty squared away dudes.  I don't know their whole mission statement and operational capabilities, but they seem on par with the abilities of the 75th and the Air Force Pararescuemen/Combat Controllers.  And they can operate in water and are much lighter and smaller units.  Thats all I know.
dshak
Member
+4|6867
kilroy,

this is actually a great point, which is also one of the main reasons I think people who scream and cry about SF being a ripoff are off their rocker... the new maps alone made it well worth the price for me. I think for some of the spetz rebel maps it would have been great to see some snow. spetz in snow suits, kind of the opposite of the night maps!

I remember some of the best ghost recon mods being the frostbite series.

general zod, strong statement, absolutely no counter point to my post above. unless you are israeli and you can't go to a movie theatre without fear of blowing up in the middle of the show, you don't really have much right to judge them.
kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|6898|Bryan/College Station, TX

dshak wrote:

this is actually a great point, which is also one of the main reasons I think people who scream and cry about SF being a ripoff are off their rocker... the new maps alone made it well worth the price for me. I think for some of the spetz rebel maps it would have been great to see some snow. spetz in snow suits, kind of the opposite of the night maps!

I remember some of the best ghost recon mods being the frostbite series.
Yes! I am very much hoping that a wooded cold climate with snow map comes up very soon. Because regardless of kits an weapons and vehicles I think the terrain environment and intelligent  map design makes all the difference in the world on how enjoyable game play is.  And BTW I don't like Night Flight. That map is boring in my opinion and so is Surge. Just too damn... uninteresting. The rest of the SF maps are pretty damn good IMO.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
RDMC_old
Member
+0|6790|Almere, Holland

shaunboulton wrote:

No way is the IDF the best in the world, its the SAS, how many times do i have to say it. SAS is the best in the world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, for those who have read  this post.
No man the Dutch Special forces rock the world:p only i don't know what their name is".. Lol

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