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2007-02-24 18:20:48
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6815|Columbus, Ohio

Braddock wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

I do.  But I also believe they know what they are doing is wrong.
So do you think that deep down inside George Bush (just as an example) when he sees a picture of a torched Ethiopian child after  a US air strike he feels guilt for what he knows is truly a wrongdoing despite what he believes may have been the 'greater good' of such a bombing mission.
I think he is wrong.  North/Central Africa is a lost civilization.  I bet he does feel guilt, but I also believe the UN asked him for help.

Last edited by usmarine2007 (2007-02-24 18:21:20)

2007-02-24 18:25:07
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6738|Éire

usmarine2007 wrote:

I think he is wrong.  North/Central Africa is a lost civilization.  I bet he does feel guilt, but I also believe the UN asked him for help.
I don't recall the UN ever passing a resolution asking for air strikes on Ethiopia. Please elaborate on what you define as a 'lost civilization'.
2007-02-24 18:28:32
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6815|Columbus, Ohio

Braddock wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

I think he is wrong.  North/Central Africa is a lost civilization.  I bet he does feel guilt, but I also believe the UN asked him for help.
I don't recall the UN ever passing a resolution asking for air strikes on Ethiopia. Please elaborate on what you define as a 'lost civilization'.
Oh well then I guess it could never happen.

As for "lost civilization."

It is beyond repair.  You have teenagers cutting of the heads of babies, putting them in bags, then showing the bags to the mothers of the babies, who by the way, had their hands cut off by the same teenagers.

Sorry, but the equals "lost" to me.
2007-02-24 18:32:22
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6738|Éire

usmarine2007 wrote:

Oh well then I guess it could never happen. smile

As for "lost civilization."

It is beyond repair.  You have teenagers cutting of the heads of babies, putting them in bags, then showing the bags to the mothers of the babies, who by the way, had their hands cut off by the same teenagers.

Sorry, but the equals "lost" to me.
What makes the Iraqi civilization not a 'lost civilization'?
2007-02-24 18:38:00
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6815|Columbus, Ohio

Braddock wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

Oh well then I guess it could never happen. smile

As for "lost civilization."

It is beyond repair.  You have teenagers cutting of the heads of babies, putting them in bags, then showing the bags to the mothers of the babies, who by the way, had their hands cut off by the same teenagers.

Sorry, but the equals "lost" to me.
What makes the Iraqi civilization not a 'lost civilization'?
Because a lot of the insurgents are not even Iraqis.
2007-02-24 18:42:22
LawJik
The Skeptical Realist
+48|6979|Amherst, MA
Why are you people arguing over the definition of murder? The fact is someone killed someone else.

murder: The killing of another human being. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).

What about all the civilians, women and children, casualties of this war?

Your insignificant squabble about the moral undertone of the word murder has no point. What makes murder bad but killing ok?
2007-02-24 18:47:33
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6815|Columbus, Ohio

LawJik wrote:

Why are you people arguing over the definition of murder? The fact is someone killed someone else.

murder: The killing of another human being. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).

What about all the civilians, women and children, casualties of this war?

Your insignificant squabble about the moral undertone of the word murder has no point. What makes murder bad but killing ok?
If you had to kill a man to save a child, is it still cold blooded murder?
2007-02-24 18:53:03
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6738|Éire

LawJIK wrote:

Why are you people arguing over the definition of murder? The fact is someone killed someone else.

murder: The killing of another human being. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).

What about all the civilians, women and children, casualties of this war?

Your insignificant squabble about the moral undertone of the word murder has no point. What makes murder bad but killing ok?
Thank you, you've said part of what I was trying to articulate to usmarine2007. Killing, murder, potatoe, potato ...what is important is a society that has a strong sense of objective right and wrong. 1940's Germany seemed to think killing Jews was acceptable, I only hope killing faceless Muslims in distant countries doesn't become equally as acceptable to Americans in this day and age.
2007-02-24 19:11:02
CoronadoSEAL
pics or it didn't happen
+207|6966|USA

usmarine2007 wrote:

LawJik wrote:

Why are you people arguing over the definition of murder? The fact is someone killed someone else.

murder: The killing of another human being. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).

What about all the civilians, women and children, casualties of this war?

Your insignificant squabble about the moral undertone of the word murder has no point. What makes murder bad but killing ok?
If you had to kill a man to save a child, is it still cold blooded murder?
PWN
also, remember there were wars in biblical times.  people were killed.
"The nation of Israel conquered and destroyed the Canaanite nations. This was only done after a specific and direct command from God (Deut 7:1,2). "

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/mckenzie1.html
2007-02-24 19:59:22
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6853|North Carolina
In a way, faith in God and joining the military involve similar mindsets.

In both cases, you believe in an institution that has historically shown itself to be untrustworthy (religion and government).  Ethics aside, there really isn't that much of a difference.
2007-02-24 20:05:26
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|7138|Tampa Bay Florida

usmarine2007 wrote:

If you had to kill a man to save a child, is it still cold blooded murder?
Killing is killing.  You could have shot the man in the leg and still saved the child.
2007-02-24 20:10:16
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7164

Spearhead wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

If you had to kill a man to save a child, is it still cold blooded murder?
Killing is killing.  You could have shot the man in the leg and still saved the child.
He said if you HAD to. Wounding is not an option.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
2007-02-24 20:15:29
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|7138|Tampa Bay Florida

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

If you had to kill a man to save a child, is it still cold blooded murder?
Killing is killing.  You could have shot the man in the leg and still saved the child.
He said if you HAD to. Wounding is not an option.
Killing is still killing, regardless of what it's for.  Just because you can justify it doesn't mean it isn't what it is.
2007-02-24 20:16:01
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7123|Canberra, AUS

aardfrith wrote:

I watched Full Metal Jacket last week and it got me wondering: are there really Christians in the military?  If so, how do they square their actions against the sixth commandment, i.e. "Thou shalt not kill"?
Which translation are you reading? Because I'm positive that in the latest NSRV it says 'Thou shalt not murder'.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2007-02-24 20:32:39
CoronadoSEAL
pics or it didn't happen
+207|6966|USA

Spearhead wrote:

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

Spearhead wrote:


Killing is killing.  You could have shot the man in the leg and still saved the child.
He said if you HAD to. Wounding is not an option.
Killing is still killing, regardless of what it's for.  Just because you can justify it doesn't mean it isn't what it is.
he never said it wasn't killing.  he said it isn't murder.  there is a big difference. 
based on the teachings we know through the Bible, circumstantial killing is acceptable.
God waged war which killed people.  He is not against killing in ALL circumstances.
2007-02-24 20:36:20
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|7138|Tampa Bay Florida

CoronadoSEAL wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:


He said if you HAD to. Wounding is not an option.
Killing is still killing, regardless of what it's for.  Just because you can justify it doesn't mean it isn't what it is.
he never said it wasn't killing.  he said it isn't murder.  there is a big difference. 
based on the teachings we know through the Bible, circumstantial killing is acceptable.
God waged war which killed people.  He is not against killing in ALL circumstances.
When has god waged war?
2007-02-24 20:40:34
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7164

Spearhead wrote:

CoronadoSEAL wrote:

Spearhead wrote:


Killing is still killing, regardless of what it's for.  Just because you can justify it doesn't mean it isn't what it is.
he never said it wasn't killing.  he said it isn't murder.  there is a big difference. 
based on the teachings we know through the Bible, circumstantial killing is acceptable.
God waged war which killed people.  He is not against killing in ALL circumstances.
When has god waged war?
Crusades.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
2007-02-24 20:49:13
CoronadoSEAL
pics or it didn't happen
+207|6966|USA

Spearhead wrote:

CoronadoSEAL wrote:

Spearhead wrote:


Killing is still killing, regardless of what it's for.  Just because you can justify it doesn't mean it isn't what it is.
he never said it wasn't killing.  he said it isn't murder.  there is a big difference. 
based on the teachings we know through the Bible, circumstantial killing is acceptable.
God waged war which killed people.  He is not against killing in ALL circumstances.
When has god waged war?
Deuteronomy 20:16-17
16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy [a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the LORD your God has commanded you.


1 Samuel 15:18
18 And he sent you on a mission, saying, 'Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out.'


as for the future:

Revelation 19:11
11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war.
2007-02-24 20:56:40
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|7138|Tampa Bay Florida
And how do you know that that is the word of god?
2007-02-24 20:59:42
CoronadoSEAL
pics or it didn't happen
+207|6966|USA

Spearhead wrote:

And how do you know that that is the word of god?
i don't really KNOW anything you buzzkill.
2007-02-24 21:04:49
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|7138|Tampa Bay Florida

CoronadoSEAL wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

And how do you know that that is the word of god?
i don't really KNOW anything you buzzkill.
lol
2007-02-24 21:07:02
*TS*tphai
The Forum Alien
+89|7254|The planet Tophet
read my sig...
: )
in ephesians god talks about being an army of the lord even though he is talking about fighting satin and sin he also says evil and he says that

this is just about the armor of god but it helps

Ephesians 6:10-19

The Armor of God
10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.

19Pray also for me, that whenever I open my mouth, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel, 20for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it fearlessly, as I should.
2007-02-24 21:12:12
LawJik
The Skeptical Realist
+48|6979|Amherst, MA

usmarine2007 wrote:

LawJik wrote:

Why are you people arguing over the definition of murder? The fact is someone killed someone else.

murder: The killing of another human being. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).

What about all the civilians, women and children, casualties of this war?

Your insignificant squabble about the moral undertone of the word murder has no point. What makes murder bad but killing ok?
If you had to kill a man to save a child, is it still cold blooded murder?
My entire post was about how pointless the argument of the word 'murder' vs the word 'kill' is, and you come back with a this terrible question.

1) If you kill a man, it is killing, or murder, or asdfjkl; . The point is you took another's life, wrong no matter what you want to call it.

2) When did I ever mention cold blooded? You cant just add in the words 'child' and 'cold blooded' to make your argument seem passionate...

3) You use both of the words 'kill' and 'murder' to describe the same thing, in the single sentence you used. Showing how hypocritical your argument really is.

Back to the point, this topic is about Christians in the armed forces.

If you really do want your life to be based off some shitty old book, and if that book is the bible, you should not be in an active armed force duty if you wish to devoutly follow the bible as it was the word of your god, killing people and following the bible devoutly contradict each other, the end.

On one hand God seems to have written all these nice one sentence "Blessed are they.." lines and the other hand quotes like:
1 Samuel 15:18
18 And he sent you on a mission, saying, 'Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out.'

The moral of the story is there is no god and anyone who kills in the name of an imaginary person that there parents told them about is a lunatic.

[google]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6169720917221820689[/google]

Last edited by LawJik (2007-02-24 21:43:18)

2007-02-24 21:13:14
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|7133|United States of America
A large portion of those in any military branch never kill anyone to begin with. Contrary to popular belief, it entails more than shooting bad guys.
2007-02-24 21:14:18
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|7138|Tampa Bay Florida
That's what I was trying to say, ty lawjik

 

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