I watched Full Metal Jacket last week and it got me wondering: are there really Christians in the military? If so, how do they square their actions against the sixth commandment, i.e. "Thou shalt not kill"?
Even the Bible implies; if your cow needs milking on a Sunday it's not a sin.
Honor they father and mother may mean kill to protect their homeland.
done/I win/thread over.
Honor they father and mother may mean kill to protect their homeland.
done/I win/thread over.
To be a devout religious person and be in the war or support it, all you need to be is fluent in double speak and a consistent Fox News audience member.
Videos removed because of their graphic nature. - Mod.
Blessed are they who mourn, for they shall be comforted
Blessed are the meek, for they shall possess the earth
Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for justice, for they shall be satisfied
Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy
Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see god
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of god
Blessed are they who suffer persecution for justice sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven
A couple of passages from Bible from the end of that clip, that an honest wholehearted Christian would follow if they didn't cherry pick the Bible.
Videos removed because of their graphic nature. - Mod.
Blessed are they who mourn, for they shall be comforted
Blessed are the meek, for they shall possess the earth
Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for justice, for they shall be satisfied
Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy
Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see god
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of god
Blessed are they who suffer persecution for justice sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven
A couple of passages from Bible from the end of that clip, that an honest wholehearted Christian would follow if they didn't cherry pick the Bible.
Last edited by LawJik (2007-02-24 16:52:54)
I'm pretty sure God would be ok with a standing army.
Ahhh so that's what it meant. Should commandment No.6 not read 'Thou shalt not kill ...unless it is to protect your father and mother's homeland' in that case?ATG wrote:
Honor they father and mother may mean kill to protect their homeland.
"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." Matthew 7:12
A true Christian wouldn´t survive for long...
A true Christian wouldn´t survive for long...
Last edited by Ubersturmbannfuhrer (2007-02-24 16:38:51)
A true Christian would be an extreme pacifist. Jesus preached that you should pray for your enemies... Well, come on; pray for the insurgents/whatever your enemy is.
Sounds a little like the Jihad philosophy to me! I'm not necessarily criticizing the bible by saying that, I believe in personal justice. I would never want to kill a man but if a man came at me with a knife then I wouldn't stop attacking him until he was totally no longer a threat to me, even if that meant a fight to the death.Ubersturmbannfuhrer wrote:
"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." Matthew 7:12
Look up the Hebrew, kill should be translated murder. Serving in the military is not murder.
Edit: Oh and Lawjik, the majority of the Christians I know (including myself) don't watch Fox News. Time to update your talking points.
Edit: Oh and Lawjik, the majority of the Christians I know (including myself) don't watch Fox News. Time to update your talking points.
Last edited by Stingray24 (2007-02-24 16:48:39)
These kind of questions are what you get when you dummy religion down to the literal level. It is also the means that allows the radicals to misinterpret the intent of said teaching(both good and bad). I believe religion to be a guide for a person's faith. The 6th commandment is thou shalt not kill but it also talks about having fish for dinner thoughout the bible . Common sense is a personal responsibility.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
So the Nazis were not murderers then? They were just serving in the military.Stingray24 wrote:
Look up the Hebrew, kill should be translated murder. Serving in the military is not murder.
Not all Nazis were like Hitler and his inner circle. The ones serving in the German army were not murderers. Those gassing and burning unarmed civilians, they would qualify as murdererss.
Hot damn. I agree with Stingray...Stingray24 wrote:
Look up the Hebrew, kill should be translated murder. Serving in the military is not murder.
That is the correct translation.
But what about turning the other cheek? To not respond to violence with violence?
Or those launching air strikes at villages in Ethiopia, Iraq or Afghanistan. Killing someone is murder, it's just a matter of whether you can justify it to yourself or not.Stingray24 wrote:
Not all Nazis were like Hitler and his inner circle. The ones serving in the German army were not murderers. Those gassing and burning unarmed civilians, they would qualify as murdererss.
That is so true. The only part that needs to be added is "...a matter of whether you can justify it to yourself or others or not." The media tends to exaggerate everything, so it is crucial that you can convince the media that it was not murder; however, killing one person and murdering another will get you two dead people.Braddock wrote:
Killing someone is murder, it's just a matter of whether you can justify it to yourself or not.
Back on the topic at hand, I don't think Christians really relate themselves 100% to the Bible anymore. This era of modern history has diminished most Christian values and has caused most people who consider themselves to be Christian, or any other religion for that matter, because of how they perceive their god. Very few Christians that I know of follow the Bible or help their communities, they just go to church and say they believe in their god. Modern religion has dwindled down to not what you can do to benefit the world, but to whether or not you believe a god is real. Therefore I believe it is improper to hold modern Christian soldiers accountable for Christian values, because the depiction of Christianity has shifted from its honorable roots to modern disjunction of loyalty, morals, and faith.
And no, I'm not a Christian, I'm just some 15-year-old with a brain.
Not a big deal really. In the Old Testament God asks everyone to kill someone else.
I'd say turning the other cheek would be individual to individual. When it comes to one's nation, the only wise course of action is defense.apollo_fi wrote:
Hot damn. I agree with Stingray...Stingray24 wrote:
Look up the Hebrew, kill should be translated murder. Serving in the military is not murder.
That is the correct translation.
But what about turning the other cheek? To not respond to violence with violence?
All killing is not murder. It seems logical to acknowledge intent.Braddock wrote:
Or those launching air strikes at villages in Ethiopia, Iraq or Afghanistan. Killing someone is murder, it's just a matter of whether you can justify it to yourself or not.Stingray24 wrote:
Not all Nazis were like Hitler and his inner circle. The ones serving in the German army were not murderers. Those gassing and burning unarmed civilians, they would qualify as murdererss.
Last edited by Stingray24 (2007-02-24 17:50:25)
That may be the case, but is this the course of action that is correct according to the scripture? In the end, it's an individual against an individual on the battlefield.Stingray24 wrote:
I'd say turning the other cheek would be individual to individual. When it comes to one's nation, the only wise course of action is defense.apollo_fi wrote:
Hot damn. I agree with Stingray...Stingray24 wrote:
Look up the Hebrew, kill should be translated murder. Serving in the military is not murder.
That is the correct translation.
But what about turning the other cheek? To not respond to violence with violence?
Last edited by apollo_fi (2007-02-24 17:55:54)
apparently, it is interpretered that it is justified IF you are defending something, or IF you are in a kill or be killed situation. But if you have any questions about that talk to your local priest/minister, as I am not one.aardfrith wrote:
I watched Full Metal Jacket last week and it got me wondering: are there really Christians in the military? If so, how do they square their actions against the sixth commandment, i.e. "Thou shalt not kill"?
That sounds like relativism to me. You can justify anything if you really want to. I'm sure the current US administration truly think they are doing the right thing in Iraq, I'm sure a suicide Jihadist flying into the twin towers believes he is doing the right thing ...but is it right to you and me?Stingray24 wrote:
All killing is not murder. It seems logical to acknowledge intent.
You can't distinguish? Ok. So if a 50 yr old dude rapes a 12 yr old.... it is just sex not rape?Braddock wrote:
That sounds like relativism to me. You can justify anything if you really want to. I'm sure the current US administration truly think they are doing the right thing in Iraq, I'm sure a suicide Jihadist flying into the twin towers believes he is doing the right thing ...but is it right to you and me?Stingray24 wrote:
All killing is not murder. It seems logical to acknowledge intent.
Last edited by usmarine2007 (2007-02-24 18:00:29)
No that would be rape to me usmarine2007, maybe the guy raping the 12yr old can justify it to himself though, do you not get my point?usmarine2007 wrote:
You can't distinguish? Ok. So if a 50 yr old dude rapes a 12 yr old.... it is just sex not rape?
I do. But I also believe they know what they are doing is wrong.Braddock wrote:
No that would be rape to me usmarine2007, maybe the guy raping the 12yr old can justify it to himself though, do you not get my point?usmarine2007 wrote:
You can't distinguish? Ok. So if a 50 yr old dude rapes a 12 yr old.... it is just sex not rape?
So do you think that deep down inside George Bush (just as an example) when he sees a picture of a torched Ethiopian child after a US air strike he feels guilt for what he knows is truly a wrongdoing despite what he believes may have been the 'greater good' of such a bombing mission.usmarine2007 wrote:
I do. But I also believe they know what they are doing is wrong.
Logically, you cannot propose that walking up to someone and blowing them away is the same as shooting an armed criminal who is breaking into my home. No justification required, it's quite obvious which one is murder and which one is killing.Braddock wrote:
That sounds like relativism to me. You can justify anything if you really want to. I'm sure the current US administration truly think they are doing the right thing in Iraq, I'm sure a suicide Jihadist flying into the twin towers believes he is doing the right thing ...but is it right to you and me?Stingray24 wrote:
All killing is not murder. It seems logical to acknowledge intent.