BF2S Forums Chemical Weapon Attacks in Iraq

ATG wrote:

My suggestion would be to sack the government, declare martial law and then get serious by sealing the borders with lethal force. The use of chemical weapons should change our ROE allowing much broader meassures.

I'm not entirely sure this option is at all plausible due to it conflicting with the so called push for Democracy and liberation of Iraq that turned to be the legitimizing reason after we found no WMDs.

Honestly, the situation is very grim and from what i read in a NY Times article, the populace itself is angry at the states for cracking down on the Mahdi Army which they saw as a greater source of protection from foreign attackers whom are exploiting the situation in Iraq in order to strike a blow at the US. This conflict will not be solved until the people of Iraq see a government which will represent their interest. No amount of posturing or crack downs will bring this possibility and turn it into a reality due to the lack of trust that people have for the government. It may be easy to forget, now more so than before, that the government itself had its hands in a significant amount of the bloodshed.

Solve the political problems = end the sectarian violence

How you will come about this i'm not entirely sure -- perhaps this is something we should discuss

Fen321 wrote:

ATG wrote:

My suggestion would be to sack the government, declare martial law and then get serious by sealing the borders with lethal force. The use of chemical weapons should change our ROE allowing much broader meassures.

I'm not entirely sure this option is at all plausible due to it conflicting with the so called push for Democracy and liberation of Iraq that turned to be the legitimizing reason after we found no WMDs.

Honestly, the situation is very grim and from what i read in a NY Times article, the populace itself is angry at the states for cracking down on the Mahdi Army which they saw as a greater source of protection from foreign attackers whom are exploiting the situation in Iraq in order to strike a blow at the US. This conflict will not be solved until the people of Iraq see a government which will represent their interest. No amount of posturing or crack downs will bring this possibility and turn it into a reality due to the lack of trust that people have for the government. It may be easy to forget, now more so than before, that the government itself had its hands in a significant amount of the bloodshed.

Solve the political problems = end the sectarian violence

How you will come about this i'm not entirely sure -- perhaps this is something we should discuss

Exactly.
Someone needs to redraw the map.

Superglueman wrote:

America should just emmigrate ALL the people out of Iraq and into the US...

..assimilate them into the "culture", then control,oppress and humiliate them as a people through the media...you'd never hear a peep out of them again....works for millions in the US already does it not?

You could then,with no restaint,devaste the whole of Iraq (exploit for resources,destroy the enviroment,poison the animals)
Problem solved....and an increased population for the US to boast about next boasting session...

Im not anti american im anti facism...

Despite the horrific grammar and spelling, there are a few grains of truth here.

Yes, we do treat our illegals rather....  questionably, to put it mildly.  However, I would actually argue that we haven't been forceful enough in our dealings with Iraq, so in a way, I agree with your sentiments -- just not in the way you probably expected.

You see, the people of Iraq are used to being oppressed.  We helped Saddam rise to power, and with him keeping people in check through brutality, sectarian violence was minimal.  America should have been ready to rule with an iron fist once entering Iraq, but we decided to be idealistic about it and fucked everything up in the process.

When you enter a country like Iraq, democracy is NOT an option.  Martial Law is the only law that can be implemented in such a shitty country as Iraq.  We don't have the stomach for that, so we should leave.

CameronPoe wrote:

I don't know why you even care anymore. Iraq mission - /fail. No amount of additional violence on the part of the American military is gonna change that. Time to pack those bags and head home.

Yea great idea Cam. The US failed (We haven't though).  Lets pull out like we did in Vietnam, (which lead to a mass genocide of thousands of innocent people) but who cares we ain't there anymore.  It isn't like the US installed Saddam there to begin with -oh wait... we did.  Better yet we can fuel your rhetoric that the US doesn't have the stomach to finish what it starts.  I've seen your posts.  I remember you bragging about being on TV bashing Iraq policy.  You favor dictators and socialism and oppressive government.  Just admit you are a socialist/communist.  It pisses you off that Democracy prevails.  People like you need this cause and America to fail.  You want the death and destruction of those who want to be free.  Why do you support evil oppressive governments?  You of all people -Aren't you an IRA sympathizer?  Don't you want that separation?  Freedom?  Also -Don't you hate religion?  Didn't you make fun of the Catholics who rubbed ashes on their heads earlier today?  I replied illustrating a more extreme form of religion that cuts the foreheads of children with swords -those are the people you support.  You replied that all religion sucks.  However you support those that are more extreme.  I think you are an OK guy, but get it together man.

CameronPoe wrote:

I don't know why you even care anymore. Iraq mission - /fail. No amount of additional violence on the part of the American military is gonna change that. Time to pack those bags and head home.

And then we'll be back over there after Iran annexes Iraq and really starts to piss off the U.N. by following in Saddam's footsteps of not paying attention to it and give it a decade and we'll be in another war there.  I'd rather finish it, even if it takes time.  People want instant results to everything now and don't realize that some stuff takes time.

Was just wondering if the pro war activists could possibly think of other solutions than just to escalate by sending more troops to counter the increasing violence ?

Is that really the only solution, would more troops solve it or what would be the benefits/drawbacks be if the troops where withdrawed ?

There is utter chaos in Iraq pr date and a completely new plan of actions should be considered either that be more troops, less troops or no troops !

DBBrinson1 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I don't know why you even care anymore. Iraq mission - /fail. No amount of additional violence on the part of the American military is gonna change that. Time to pack those bags and head home.

Yea great idea Cam. The US failed (We haven't though).  Lets pull out like we did in Vietnam, (which lead to a mass genocide of thousands of innocent people) but who cares we ain't there anymore.  It isn't like the US installed Saddam there to begin with -oh wait... we did.  Better yet we can fuel your rhetoric that the US doesn't have the stomach to finish what it starts.  I've seen your posts.  I remember you bragging about being on TV bashing Iraq policy.  You favor dictators and socialism and oppressive government.  Just admit you are a socialist/communist.  It pisses you off that Democracy prevails.  People like you need this cause and America to fail.  You want the death and destruction of those who want to be free.  Why do you support evil oppressive governments?  You of all people -Aren't you an IRA sympathizer?  Don't you want that separation?  Freedom?  Also -Don't you hate religion?  Didn't you make fun of the Catholics who rubbed ashes on their heads earlier today?  I replied illustrating a more extreme form of religion that cuts the foreheads of children with swords -those are the people you support.  You replied that all religion sucks.  However you support those that are more extreme.  I think you are an OK guy, but get it together man.

a) America had no business going into Vietnam. None whatsoever.
b) America cannot nation-build when it comes to arab countries: they aren't seen as impartial arbiters of justice given their support for dictatorial regimes in the likes of Saudi Arabia and Egypt and their unconditional military and financial support for state terrorists Israel. Hypocrisy and conflicts of interest do not build trust.
c) I would never state that the US 'doesn't have the stomach to finish what it starts' - if it jumps out of a campaign early that I believed was fought on unjust or futile grounds then I'll be happy to congratulate their bravery in taking what I view to be the right decision.
d) I don't favour dictatorships: I favour democracy and isolationism. It is the responsibility of the people who are suffering under a dictatorship to free themselves from it. Ireland ousted the Brits, so did the yanks, what have you got against self-determination? The ownership of the battle for freedom must lie in the hands of those who seek to have it.
e) You are SERIOUSLY misguided on my political views. Look at the '18 rules of moderates' thread and get back to me. Democracy is a must for me. I have socialist viewpoints - much like almost the entire population of the EU - which IS A UNION OF SOCIALIST GOVERNMENTS. Can't you differentiate between socialism and communism?
f) Where have I ever said I support oppressive governments? You're just making statements based on your erroneous perception of who I actually am.
g) Religion has a certain amount of value, but the necessity for it to breed a civil and moral society is waning as the process of 'civilisation' has developed far enough at this stage. The dogma of christianity is as much bullshit as that of Islam. I don't differentiate between different types of bullshit, although I favour christianity over islam as it is part of my heritage. Supporting 'those that are more extreme'? Again - making statements based on your erroneous perception of who I actually am.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-02-22 02:35:25)

Going back to the Original Topic ......

I too read about the recent use of chlorine with bombs in Iraq.

To me I see it as good news.  This means that they don't have access to the chemical weapons that Sadaam produced.  I wasn't able to watch it because of my work schedule but I believe the Discovery channel had a show on tonight about the chemical weapons that the Soviets made & stockpiled during the Cold War.

At least the Islamo-Facists haven't gotten their hands on any of these weapons, at least not yet.

Just my opinion.

sharp and short civil war??

i think not.

CameronPoe wrote:

ATG wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I don't know why you even care anymore. Iraq mission - /fail. No amount of additional violence on the part of the American military is gonna change that. Time to pack those bags and head home.

http://i12.tinypic.com/40f8b4j.jpg

A lot of people claim Iraq was another Vietnam. Those same people seem eager that it should be and that, by suffering another political defeat, America will finally have learned her lesson.

http://i19.tinypic.com/2s12hk6.jpg

Why condemn millions to slaughter? How can you claim to be a compassionate liberal and be so eager to abandon these people to their fate?

I'm not an out and out liberal. See my a-z of political viewpoints in the '18 points about moderates' thread. Depending on the situation I can be very UNcompassionate. Iraq is an Iraqi problem, not an American problem even if America was the catalyst for the chaos. Condemn millions to slaughter? It seems an average of 50 people a day are being killed with America there - if they got out of the way a short sharp civil war would sort out the future of Iraq for good.

Like the short sharp one the IRA had??

CameronPoe wrote:

joker3327 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I'm not an out and out liberal. See my a-z of political viewpoints in the '18 points about moderates' thread. Depending on the situation I can be very UNcompassionate. Iraq is an Iraqi problem, not an American problem even if America was the catalyst for the chaos. Condemn millions to slaughter? It seems an average of 50 people a day are being killed with America there - if they got out of the way a short sharp civil war would sort out the future of Iraq for good.

Like the short sharp one the IRA had??

You want to stay in Iraq for 800 years? Be my guest.

I was talking about civil war you know between themselves.....but then you knew that

CameronPoe wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I don't know why you even care anymore. Iraq mission - /fail. No amount of additional violence on the part of the American military is gonna change that. Time to pack those bags and head home.

Yea great idea Cam. The US failed (We haven't though).  Lets pull out like we did in Vietnam, (which lead to a mass genocide of thousands of innocent people) but who cares we ain't there anymore.  It isn't like the US installed Saddam there to begin with -oh wait... we did.  Better yet we can fuel your rhetoric that the US doesn't have the stomach to finish what it starts.  I've seen your posts.  I remember you bragging about being on TV bashing Iraq policy.  You favor dictators and socialism and oppressive government.  Just admit you are a socialist/communist.  It pisses you off that Democracy prevails.  People like you need this cause and America to fail.  You want the death and destruction of those who want to be free.  Why do you support evil oppressive governments?  You of all people -Aren't you an IRA sympathizer?  Don't you want that separation?  Freedom?  Also -Don't you hate religion?  Didn't you make fun of the Catholics who rubbed ashes on their heads earlier today?  I replied illustrating a more extreme form of religion that cuts the foreheads of children with swords -those are the people you support.  You replied that all religion sucks.  However you support those that are more extreme.  I think you are an OK guy, but get it together man.

a) America had no business going into Vietnam. None whatsoever.
b) America cannot nation-build when it comes to arab countries: they aren't seen as impartial arbiters of justice given their support for dictatorial regimes in the likes of Saudi Arabia and Egypt and their unconditional military and financial support for state terrorists Israel. Hypocrisy and conflicts of interest do not build trust.
c) I would never state that the US 'doesn't have the stomach to finish what it starts' - if it jumps out of a campaign early that I believed was fought on unjust or futile grounds then I'll be happy to congratulate their bravery in taking what I view to be the right decision.
d) I don't favour dictatorships: I favour democracy and isolationism. It is the responsibility of the people who are suffering under a dictatorship to free themselves from it. Ireland ousted the Brits, so did the yanks, what have you got against self-determination? The ownership of the battle for freedom must lie in the hands of those who seek to have it.
e) You are SERIOUSLY misguided on my political views. Look at the '18 rules of moderates' thread and get back to me. Democracy is a must for me. I have socialist viewpoints - much like almost the entire population of the EU - which IS A UNION OF SOCIALIST GOVERNMENTS. Can't you differentiate between socialism and communism?
f) Where have I ever said I support oppressive governments? You're just making statements based on your erroneous perception of who I actually am.
g) Religion has a certain amount of value, but the necessity for it to breed a civil and moral society is waning as the process of 'civilisation' has developed far enough at this stage. The dogma of christianity is as much bullshit as that of Islam. I don't differentiate between different types of bullshit, although I favour christianity over islam as it is part of my heritage. Supporting 'those that are more extreme'? Again - making statements based on your erroneous perception of who I actually am.

So you would be okay with communists absorbing Vietnam?

Varegg wrote:

Communism tends to break up from the inside and desolve itself so why interfeer ?

Because when it breaks up, all the nukes and chemical weapons "disappear" with it.