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2007-02-21 15:53:38
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6957|Global Command
Iraqi Insurgents Use 2nd 'Dirty' Bomb in Two Days
https://i19.tinypic.com/2ic4r2o.jpg
AP News;
In Baghdad, a pickup truck carrying chlorine gas cylinders was blown apart, killing at least five people and sending more than 55 to hospitals gasping for breath and rubbing stinging eyes, police said. In Washington, two Pentagon officials said the tactic has been used at least three times since Jan. 28, when a truck carrying explosives and a chlorine tank blew up in Anbar province. More than a dozen people were reported killed.

http://apnews.myway.com//article/200702 … D0LG1.html

My suggestion would be to sack the government, declare martial law and then get serious by sealing the borders with lethal force. The use of chemical weapons should change our ROE allowing much broader meassures.

     A Pol Pot style killing field is not what I desire. Cheney today actually said the words " peace with honor ".

I remember what happened last time that phrase was used.
2007-02-21 16:01:15
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6983
I don't know why you even care anymore. Iraq mission - /fail. No amount of additional violence on the part of the American military is gonna change that. Time to pack those bags and head home.
2007-02-21 16:04:11
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|7081

ATG wrote:

My suggestion would be to sack the government, declare martial law and then get serious by sealing the borders with lethal force. The use of chemical weapons should change our ROE allowing much broader meassures.
Deja Vu?
2007-02-21 16:08:26
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6833|North Carolina
Yep, I'll say it again, either we should get out or get brutal.  This current arrangement isn't working.
2007-02-21 16:11:53
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6718|Éire
What do you want to achieve in Iraq? Do you want to just oppress the people? The US have created the environment for this kind of violence to take place by removing the dictator who managed to keep all the religious factions under control with his iron fist. Are you suggesting the US army assume the role that Saddam has vacated? It's pretty much a case of 'you've made your bed and now you have to lie in it'. The only option you have is stick it out and suffer the violence and try to remain perceived as a force trying to create liberty (assuming a bad cop stance would achieve nothing except more criticism from around the world and the Iraqi public) or alternatively bail and let civil war ensue (although civil war is already in existence in Iraq) and let them sort themselves out (as devastating as that may be).
2007-02-21 16:21:03
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6957|Global Command

CameronPoe wrote:

I don't know why you even care anymore. Iraq mission - /fail. No amount of additional violence on the part of the American military is gonna change that. Time to pack those bags and head home.
https://i12.tinypic.com/40f8b4j.jpg

A lot of people claim Iraq was another Vietnam. Those same people seem eager that it should be and that, by suffering another political defeat, America will finally have learned her lesson.

https://i19.tinypic.com/2s12hk6.jpg

Why condemn millions to slaughter? How can you claim to be a compassionate liberal and be so eager to abandon these people to their fate?
2007-02-21 16:24:40
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|7074

ATG wrote:

Why condemn millions to slaughter? How can you claim to be a compassionate liberal and be so eager to abandon these people to their fate?
Internet Liberal != Liberal.
2007-02-21 16:41:51
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6983

ATG wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I don't know why you even care anymore. Iraq mission - /fail. No amount of additional violence on the part of the American military is gonna change that. Time to pack those bags and head home.
http://i12.tinypic.com/40f8b4j.jpg

A lot of people claim Iraq was another Vietnam. Those same people seem eager that it should be and that, by suffering another political defeat, America will finally have learned her lesson.

http://i19.tinypic.com/2s12hk6.jpg

Why condemn millions to slaughter? How can you claim to be a compassionate liberal and be so eager to abandon these people to their fate?
I'm not an out and out liberal. See my a-z of political viewpoints in the '18 points about moderates' thread. Depending on the situation I can be very UNcompassionate. Iraq is an Iraqi problem, not an American problem even if America was the catalyst for the chaos. Condemn millions to slaughter? It seems an average of 50 people a day are being killed with America there - if they got out of the way a short sharp civil war would sort out the future of Iraq for good.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-02-21 16:42:26)

2007-02-21 16:49:56
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6718|Éire

cameronpoe wrote:

I'm not an out and out liberal. See my a-z of political viewpoints in the '18 points about moderates' thread. Depending on the situation I can be very UNcompassionate. Iraq is an Iraqi problem, not an American problem even if America was the catalyst for the chaos. Condemn millions to slaughter? It seems an average of 50 people a day are being killed with America there - if they got out of the way a short sharp civil war would sort out the future of Iraq for good.
I agree with CP, as sad as it is I think it's a case of having to swap one bad situation that has no realistic positive end result (the Iraqi people will never accept anything that they perceive the Americans to have a hand in) for a situation that will be nasty but will ultimately divide Iraq up along the lines it should be divided along.
2007-02-21 16:55:26
King_County_Downy
shitfaced
+2,791|7025|Seattle

OOOH!!!! Does this mean we get to use some of our good stuff? It's only fair, right? We have fun bio and chem if they want to get "dirty".
Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it
2007-02-21 16:59:21
psH
Banned
+217|6811|Sydney

CameronPoe wrote:

I don't know why you even care anymore. Iraq mission - /fail. No amount of additional violence on the part of the American military is gonna change that. Time to pack those bags and head home.
2007-02-21 17:03:54
King_County_Downy
shitfaced
+2,791|7025|Seattle

Doms wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I don't know why you even care anymore. Iraq mission - /fail. No amount of additional violence on the part of the American military is gonna change that. Time to pack those bags and head home.
I disagree. We could overwhelm them if we wanted to. But there's too many pussies who would object to that. Too many "innocent" civilians would die. Note: the quotations.
Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it
2007-02-21 17:07:48
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6957|Global Command
Our biggest enemies are political ones here in the States.
2007-02-21 17:08:18
jonsimon
Member
+224|6923

ATG wrote:

Why condemn millions to slaughter? How can you claim to be a compassionate liberal and be so eager to abandon these people to their fate?
So you're saying he should condemn people to brutal warfare and violence instead? C'mon, Poe wouldn't have invaded Iraq in the first place, so I guess its the conservative side that's condemning those people to their fate.
2007-02-21 17:10:19
jonsimon
Member
+224|6923

King_County_Downy wrote:

Doms wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I don't know why you even care anymore. Iraq mission - /fail. No amount of additional violence on the part of the American military is gonna change that. Time to pack those bags and head home.
I disagree. We could overwhelm them if we wanted to. But there's too many pussies who would object to that. Too many "innocent" civilians would die. Note: the quotations.
Right, like those "innocent" infants, we all know who's really smuggling in those explosives.
2007-02-21 17:10:41
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7028|132 and Bush

Doms wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I don't know why you even care anymore. Iraq mission - /fail. No amount of additional violence on the part of the American military is gonna change that. Time to pack those bags and head home.
What was the stated mission prior to going into Iraq? I too would like to see a troop withdrawal but I am not as optimistic as Cam with regards to a short civil war. I am fearful of what will be left when there is no military/police presence at all.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-02-21 17:16:42
King_County_Downy
shitfaced
+2,791|7025|Seattle

jonsimon wrote:

King_County_Downy wrote:

Doms wrote:


I disagree. We could overwhelm them if we wanted to. But there's too many pussies who would object to that. Too many "innocent" civilians would die. Note: the quotations.
Right, like those "innocent" infants, we all know who's really smuggling in those explosives.
Your right, every male age 14+ needs to be killed. I've said that the whole time. The rest can be swayed.

Kmarion wrote:

Doms wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I don't know why you even care anymore. Iraq mission - /fail. No amount of additional violence on the part of the American military is gonna change that. Time to pack those bags and head home.
What was the stated mission prior to going into Iraq? I too would like to see a troop withdrawal but I am not as optimistic as Cam with regards to a short civil war. I am fearful of what will be left when there is no military/police presence at all.
Followed by a "surge" of anti-western aggression and a regrouping until we have to deal with it again on a much larger scale. I only see an escalation if we leave. We might as well keep what few citizens there are left on our side. If we cut and run, those people who would like us to stay, will turn against us. (If there's even any left, in which case, fuck 'em all IMO).

Last edited by King_County_Downy (2007-02-21 17:18:07)

Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it
2007-02-21 17:19:10
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6957|Global Command

jonsimon wrote:

ATG wrote:

Why condemn millions to slaughter? How can you claim to be a compassionate liberal and be so eager to abandon these people to their fate?
So you're saying he should condemn people to brutal warfare and violence instead? C'mon, Poe wouldn't have invaded Iraq in the first place, so I guess its the conservative side that's condemning those people to their fate.
Your an exhibit of the type of liberal that never gages consequence.
Like I said, your okay with failure, mores the better, as long as Bush looks bad and America learns its lesson who cares how many die, right?
2007-02-21 17:24:44
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|7074

ATG wrote:

Your an exhibit of the type of liberal that never gages consequence.
Like I said, your okay with failure, mores the better, as long as Bush looks bad and America learns its lesson who cares how many die, right?
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. That, ladies and gentleman, is the driving force behind the idiocy posted on this forum. It has nothing to do with reason, logic, fact, or even political alignment. The hatred of America outweighs everything and takes priority.
2007-02-21 17:26:26
maffiaw
ph33r me 傻逼
+40|6848|Melbourne, AUS

ATG wrote:

Why condemn millions to slaughter? How can you claim to be a compassionate liberal and be so eager to abandon these people to their fate?
Not claiming to be from any political basis but, was it not the doing of warmongering anti-liberals that caused this increase in bloodshed in the first hand?
Sure, when Saddam was in power there was brutal crackdowns, but at least citizens had running water, electricity, and some form of law and order in the streets. Now, as you have admitted, millions have been killed in endless violence. This may sound callous - but at least Saddam ruled over a united country, not one ravaged by destructive civil war.

I sound harsh don't I? Such is the world of global politics. Sure, ATG's humanitarian angle moves me, but since when has the US's policies been motivated solely by the plight of others, when no national interest could be obtained. Easy examples - North Koreans are starving, yet the US intends to be bogged down by 6 party talks when they could mobilise their military unilaterally just like with Iraq. And Darfur? The US does not even blink an eye.

US citizens have to open their eyes and see the whole picture, not hunch themselves to see just a narrow view of the world, where they are kings, and can solve anything with simply "more force". You can conquer a nation, but you can't conquer a national mentality.
2007-02-21 17:30:10
CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|6997|Portland, OR, USA

ATG wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I don't know why you even care anymore. Iraq mission - /fail. No amount of additional violence on the part of the American military is gonna change that. Time to pack those bags and head home.
http://i12.tinypic.com/40f8b4j.jpg

A lot of people claim Iraq was another Vietnam. Those same people seem eager that it should be and that, by suffering another political defeat, America will finally have learned her lesson.

http://i19.tinypic.com/2s12hk6.jpg

Why condemn millions to slaughter? How can you claim to be a compassionate liberal and be so eager to abandon these people to their fate?
Yeah, because we obviously cared soooo much about these people going in.  Bullshit, don't try to pull that crap.  "Now we're the nice guys".  And our bombs have done nothing to hurt these kids.

I'd go on but the maffiaw just pretty much covered it all...
2007-02-21 17:46:09
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7028|132 and Bush

It seems you guys have condemned ATG to be responsible for all the previous mistakes the Administration has made. Is it not possible to not support an invasion but at the same token understand what will happen now when there is a complete vacuum of authority?  We have more people concerned with pointing fingers and looking back rather than dealing with solutions and the reality at hand.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-02-21 17:54:29
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,072|7199|PNW

Braddock wrote:

Do you want to just oppress the people?
Because chlorine gas sure isn't oppression.
2007-02-21 17:56:50
maffiaw
ph33r me 傻逼
+40|6848|Melbourne, AUS
Solutions?
Hurry up and find an excuse like "the interim Iraqi government is strong enough to govern itself" and gtfo, just like Vietnam
2007-02-21 18:00:00
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6957|Global Command

Kmarion wrote:

It seems you guys have condemned ATG to be responsible for all the previous mistakes the Administration has made. Is it not possible to not support an invasion but at the same token understand what will happen now when there is a complete vacuum of authority?  We have more people concerned with pointing fingers and looking back rather than dealing with solutions and the reality at hand.
QFT

 

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