I'm only a decent player, and getting better, but I guess that's just the way it goes. :\Sud wrote:
Sounds like a combination of bad luck and autobalance. But to keep in mind:
Squad Leaders never are moved
Commander is never moved
Thus you may have been juggled around because a lot of people were on 1 man squads. If they die, they don't move, so the game waits for the first unleader/commander death and punts you over, which happened to be you in all those situations.
Yes, autobalance sucks.Don't sell short the individual contribution to a game. Team effort is something you see in clan matches, not so much in public games. A very good individual can more than turn the tide, even carry his team, if he's particularly good (especially if he's a nasty force in armor and more than makes up for what could be an overall weaker team).Please don't think I'm insinuating that I was the sole reason for the winning and turnaround (that's team effort)
Poll
What do you think of AutoBalance?
| FUCK AutoBalance!!!!! | 55% | 55% - 45 | ||||
| I like it. | 16% | 16% - 13 | ||||
| I hope AutoBalance catches AIDS. | 28% | 28% - 23 | ||||
| Total: 81 | ||||||
O.o i was squad leader and i got switched and that after 1.12 i mostly get switched when im on winning side and in top 3.. then i die and i get switched to the losing side..
For those 39 people that are against it, you have not played where you have 31 people on oneside and 12 on the other then. That just full on killing and laughing about it, especially when you take out thier commander toys. I just switch servers when it comes to that. Or when people see that they are losing and at the last moment switch sides to get the win. Autobalance is there for that reason, to balance out the forces to make it more reasonable and fun not only for one side, but the other as well.
If you're in a Squad you aren't moved all the time.
If you're in a Squad you aren't moved all the time.
Last edited by imdead (2005-12-16 10:25:49)
Probably not - LOL!Xombie wrote:
Abstract: Autobalance inherently wrong. Alternative solutions better. All suggestion so far seem to discuss how to repair the broken sundial while digital watches abound.I disagree. The idea behind autobalance (as in switching players a.k.a. "smart" balance) is a product of a lazy mind. If you step away from the game for a while and consider the problem "How do we make a round of game fair", you soon realize that DICE really botched this one. Balancing teams has little to do with having equal size teams. It just happens to be the simplest and most obvious solution (or in scientific terms: the "naïve" solution).jools wrote:
The idea BEHIND autobalance is good.
So what do we actually want?
For one, we don't want to want to be switched to the losing team against our will, it counters the whole reason we play a game -- we want to win. (Granted, we also want to pad our stats, but that's a whole different essay...). If the game switches the best players, they are punished for helping the team. On the other hand, moving the worst players accomplishes nothing, except possibly helping the winning team.
Secondly, we don't want to play an unbalanced game. Not in the long run at least, especially when we're equally prone to find ourselves on the unfavored side.
Thirdly, we don't want constant equality and balance. It's actually that what we're trying to upset by capping flags, destroying commander assets and stealing vehicles. Creating imbalance in our favor is the means to our end -- winning.
What we want is an initial fairness and a more or less equal opportunity of winning the game. That issue is important during the beginning of the game but moot during the end-game.
Consider alternative approaches to equalizing team strength:
1. Increase the respawn time for the team with most players, proportional to the overweight, or vice versa.
2. Adjust ticket count to counter numerical imbalance. Half sized team, twice the tickets.
3. Impose a restriction on active team size (playing slots). The biggest team can't have more spawned players than the number of members in the smallest team. The other players (reserves) are waiting in a spawn queue, not entering until someone in their team dies, opening a slot.
These approaches have two positive effects, besides increasing game balance:
1, 2 and 3: The game is rather fair and interesting even with a great numerical imbalance.
1 and 3: The incitement to select the "losing" team is greater. It's up to every player to choose between the smaller team or longer wait periods.
Of course, these are only a few suggestions, but hopefully they show that smartbalance doesn't need fixing but rather complete removal. Other solutions would work better. I'm confident that the community will come up with other innovative ideas, as long as we drop the notion of smartbalance altogether.
But will EA listen? Probably not.
/Xombie
(As well as others on this forum - LOL!)
I sort of agree with your assesment - it is certainly a case of: the GAME-LOGIC allows the imbalance.
I don't think an increase in spawn time is fair (for the loaded team) - and certainly not FUN.
Downtime = not playing = not FUN!
Increased ticket loss (on a one-sided loaded team) would cause rounds to end to fast = not FUN!
But AUTOBALANCE based on a simple numerical head-count is retarded game-logic.
1.) If spawn time should increase - it is the spawn time of strategic vehicle equipment. You loose the tank/chopper/etc - it is going to be awhile before it spawns again.
2.) Spawn times should HALVE for the smaller team if the imbalance is half, if it is 1/3 less then the spawn time is 1/3 less. etc. This would still make it difficult to win but at least it would be difficult to be utterly routed.
3.) If the imbalance is greater than 1/3 the other team should get NO ADDITIONAL VEHICLES if they manage to capture a cappable-base that is a strategic spawn point for team equipment.
It seems unfair that the have twice the number of men - and ALL THE VEHICLES! It's ridiculous even!
I don't think everyone that voted against it is against the concept, just the implementation used in this game. I've been AB'd to the other team only to find that by the time I could spawn again there were no more spawn points. This basically took what was a winning round for me and AB'd me to a loss.imdead wrote:
For those 39 people that are against it, you have not played where you have 31 people on oneside and 12 on the other then. That just full on killing and laughing about it, especially when you take out thier commander toys. I just switch servers when it comes to that. Or when people see that they are losing and at the last moment switch sides to get the win. Autobalance is there for that reason, to balance out the forces to make it more reasonable and fun not only for one side, but the other as well.
If you're in a Squad you aren't moved all the time.
It seems unfair that the have twice the number of men - and ALL THE VEHICLES! It's ridiculous even!
uh...yeah..that's why there is autobalance. to balance out the teams. seems that most of the people's main bitch is being switched when you die, which is a concern/valid complaint, but fair. the people who quit/disconnect are the main problem because they cause this when no new people come in, it has to be fair and valid play. when you are against autobalance you are just there for stats, and you don't want to be the person fighting up-hill after you've worked so hard getting the tickets down, to me, it's more challenging, I don't care about win/loss.
uh...yeah..that's why there is autobalance. to balance out the teams. seems that most of the people's main bitch is being switched when you die, which is a concern/valid complaint, but fair. the people who quit/disconnect are the main problem because they cause this when no new people come in, it has to be fair and valid play. when you are against autobalance you are just there for stats, and you don't want to be the person fighting up-hill after you've worked so hard getting the tickets down, to me, it's more challenging, I don't care about win/loss.
I've had this happen to me as well - and way to often.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
I don't think everyone that voted against it is against the concept, just the implementation used in this game. I've been AB'd to the other team only to find that by the time I could spawn again there were no more spawn points. This basically took what was a winning round for me and AB'd me to a loss.
The current auto-balance game- logic - SUCKS!
You should read an entire thread - and post a comment - in context.imdead wrote:
It seems unfair that the have twice the number of men - and ALL THE VEHICLES! It's ridiculous even!
uh...yeah..that's why there is autobalance. to balance out the teams. seems that most of the people's main bitch is being switched when you die, which is a concern/valid complaint, but fair. the people who quit/disconnect are the main problem because they cause this when no new people come in, it has to be fair and valid play. when you are against autobalance you are just there for stats, and you don't want to be the person fighting up-hill after you've worked so hard getting the tickets down, to me, it's more challenging, I don't care about win/loss.
You’re clearly don’t understand.
1.) I agreed with the other poster that auto-balance is retarded! It is based on poor logic. A head count doesn’t matter, I don’t want to be switched - in almost every instance - I’ve found it utterly irritating.
2.) All my comments/statements are against head-count auto-balance. And for different game logic.
Taking statements out of context is a common thing done an all forums - I’ve ever participated in - it would be great to see less of it.
Last edited by topal63 (2005-12-16 11:13:04)
I have officially banned Autobalanced servers from my itinerary of Battlefield entertainment.
I especially get infuriated when I cap the last flag and I get teamkilled by an irresponsible grenade thrower, only to get further incensed when I get switched to the other team.
It does seem to happen quite a bit when I am in the top 3 in the round...
I especially get infuriated when I cap the last flag and I get teamkilled by an irresponsible grenade thrower, only to get further incensed when I get switched to the other team.
It does seem to happen quite a bit when I am in the top 3 in the round...
You are educating me in grammar?topal63 wrote:
I've had this happen to me as well - and way to often.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
I don't think everyone that voted against it is against the concept, just the implementation used in this game. I've been AB'd to the other team only to find that by the time I could spawn again there were no more spawn points. This basically took what was a winning round for me and AB'd me to a loss.
The current auto-balance game- logic - SUCKS!You should read an entire thread - and post a comment - in context.imdead wrote:
It seems unfair that the have twice the number of men - and ALL THE VEHICLES! It's ridiculous even!
uh...yeah..that's why there is autobalance. to balance out the teams. seems that most of the people's main bitch is being switched when you die, which is a concern/valid complaint, but fair. the people who quit/disconnect are the main problem because they cause this when no new people come in, it has to be fair and valid play. when you are against autobalance you are just there for stats, and you don't want to be the person fighting up-hill after you've worked so hard getting the tickets down, to me, it's more challenging, I don't care about win/loss.
You’re clearly don’t understand.
1.) I agreed with the other poster that auto-balance is retarded! It is based on poor logic. A head count doesn’t matter, I don’t want to be switched - in almost every instance - I’ve found it utterly irritating.
2.) All my comments/statements are against head-count auto-balance. And for different game logic.
Taking statements out of context is a common thing done an all forums - I’ve ever participated in - it would be great to see less of it.
One, I was agreeing with you, sorry I made it sound childish. And statements out of context, without paragraph form, that was supposed to be making it easier for your eyes are mere summaries. If you want me to put ^^ I will.
So in a nutshell, I was on your side. Sorry the intial quote got you in there, wasn't meant for you. It was meant as a statement that was agreeing as in : "that's why there is autobalance because of that reason"
Obviously if you've read my entire statement you would've found this out, seems like you only read the first sentence.
If you don't like statements out of context then don't read forums, letters, email, reports...
Sorry I haven't been in school for 15 years and it shows, Sorry.
Basically, Move on, Who cares. It wasn't a flame.
Last edited by imdead (2005-12-16 16:49:11)
pfff do you have played on a server without autoteambalance ??? all fucking losing team player are joining the winning team as soon they see that they will loose. there are teams like 24 against 12 and so on and this sucks heavy. the only advantage of that is that this is nearly the only way to get the war college ribbon: when you are sure that your team is loosing and it has only few tickets left, just go in the winning team.
i know what you mean: it sometimes even happens to me that i am switched in the loosing team although i was the best man and in a good squad and so on , but it's not that often because that can only happen if someone from the loosing teams leaves the server in the middle of the round and this does not happen very often.
i know what you mean: it sometimes even happens to me that i am switched in the loosing team although i was the best man and in a good squad and so on , but it's not that often because that can only happen if someone from the loosing teams leaves the server in the middle of the round and this does not happen very often.
Ir0n-M@n, I am agreeing with you. That is basically what I am saying, In context or out.
I was playing on the Chinese, and I wanted to switch over to the USA team. I was the 31st player on my team, against 30 on the other. I press the USA tab, I die, and get switched over. After 10 seconds of waiting for my spawn it switches me back (the teams were still 31 against 30). I spawn almost instantly, so I click the USA tab again. I get killed, switch to USA, and switch back to chinese. I press tab to see if the teams are unbalanced: USA: 30, China:31. Wtf? I thought autobalance actually BALANCED the teams?
So do IKobrakai wrote:
I purposly look for servers with auto blalance turned off.
I've never been switched (even with autobalance on) as a squad leader, but I have been switched as a squad member.
Be squadleader and don't get switched...
I think the AB should only switch the people with the lowest scores. Everything else just doesn't make sense.
I think the AB should only switch the people with the lowest scores. Everything else just doesn't make sense.
Or the opposite:Ub3r-ElitE wrote:
Be squadleader and don't get switched...
I think the AB should only switch the people with the lowest scores. Everything else just doesn't make sense.
If the team that won is top heavy with kill-scores on one-side; even out the ABILITY/EXPERIENCE imbalance. What difference would it make to move around a few AFK players and few lousey players? The imbalance is usually at the TOP not the bottom. And the imbalnce SHOULD NEVER be adjusted in the same round, BUT applied to the NEXT round.
Last edited by topal63 (2005-12-21 12:35:53)
it really sucks
many times i have worked hard for win and when the round is nearly finished:
1. there is about 4 players less on the other team than my team has
2. someone kills me
3. message in my monitor: "you have been moved to the other team by the server".
4. (i'm getting angry)
5. i try to switch back to 'my' team
6. server moves me again to losing team
7. then i lose
8. then i am so mad that i quit playing for that day
(im angry 'cause i'm chasing the WAR COLLEGE RIBBON)
many times i have worked hard for win and when the round is nearly finished:
1. there is about 4 players less on the other team than my team has
2. someone kills me
3. message in my monitor: "you have been moved to the other team by the server".
4. (i'm getting angry)
5. i try to switch back to 'my' team
6. server moves me again to losing team
7. then i lose
8. then i am so mad that i quit playing for that day
(im angry 'cause i'm chasing the WAR COLLEGE RIBBON)
16 slots EA Official, Gulf of Oman, USMC
I jumped in the tank and captured the first flag. On my way to the second flag I outmaneuvered the enemy tank and killed him. Then I took the second flag. I drove to the enemy tank spawn, killed all engaging enemies and my machinegunner stole their tank.
- 3 - 1 Flags
- both tanks in our hands
- we were about to take the last flag
With an easy win in mind I was a little bit unconcetrated and drove over an enemy AT Mine. I had killed the engineer dropping them and tried to avoid the mines but I must have overlooked one. So I was dead and then the message poped up:
"You have been moved to the other team by the server."
It was ME who captured all the flags for USMC.
It was ME who killed the enemy tank.
It was ME who secured the enemy tank spawn so my machine gunner could steal it.
I jumped in the tank and captured the first flag. On my way to the second flag I outmaneuvered the enemy tank and killed him. Then I took the second flag. I drove to the enemy tank spawn, killed all engaging enemies and my machinegunner stole their tank.
- 3 - 1 Flags
- both tanks in our hands
- we were about to take the last flag
With an easy win in mind I was a little bit unconcetrated and drove over an enemy AT Mine. I had killed the engineer dropping them and tried to avoid the mines but I must have overlooked one. So I was dead and then the message poped up:
"You have been moved to the other team by the server."
It was ME who captured all the flags for USMC.
It was ME who killed the enemy tank.
It was ME who secured the enemy tank spawn so my machine gunner could steal it.
Last edited by Ali (2006-03-03 03:08:57)
I like servers that don't allow you to switch teams unless the other team has one less than yours. But yeah, the ones that switch you midgame are just plain dumb.
So what's the difference? Are both forms of autobalance?(I know I sound like a noob but I just don't think about this kinda thing when I play)
So what's the difference? Are both forms of autobalance?(I know I sound like a noob but I just don't think about this kinda thing when I play)
Ive noticed this as well. Some servers will absolutely not let you switch teams unless the other team has less players, and some will let you switch and then switch you right back. I've never figured out what the difference is... its probably just some obscure server side setting.Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
I like servers that don't allow you to switch teams unless the other team has one less than yours. But yeah, the ones that switch you midgame are just plain dumb.
So what's the difference? Are both forms of autobalance?(I know I sound like a noob but I just don't think about this kinda thing when I play)
Getting switched to the losing team is a real pain in the ass, especially for people who want to get their WCR. Every time I notice that the teams are uneven I do everything in my power not to die, because I know as soon as I do I'll see "you have been switched to the other team by the server". And most of the time that "other team" is losing.
more than once Ive been in the top 3 and 10 or less tickets left for the win,switched !!!
and that sucks
fuck auto balance
and that sucks
fuck auto balance
Cougar wrote:
FUCK PUNKBUSTER, FUCK AUTOBALANCE, AND FUCK IDLE KICK!!!
K, autobalance sux, i refuse to play any EA servers or others with it enabled. If I join a server with the admin clan stacking to one side and the gameplay is unbalanced, I simply leave and find another. I have stuck around just to see what other people do in this situation and it seems they do the same. I highly reccommend everyone to do this, the admin team will have to play fair, or have no one on their server.
I love a challenging game where is is close, whether I win or lose. Nothing is more frustrating than getting blown out of the round 150-0. Keep it fair, I think this is the most fun for everyone involved. Even if your a stat padder, you've got to realize the closer both teams tickets get to zero, the more of a chance you have to get a high score, even if your team loses. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't seem to get this, thus you end up with the servers with unbalanced teams, a blow out, and the winning team high score is 17, lol!
I love a challenging game where is is close, whether I win or lose. Nothing is more frustrating than getting blown out of the round 150-0. Keep it fair, I think this is the most fun for everyone involved. Even if your a stat padder, you've got to realize the closer both teams tickets get to zero, the more of a chance you have to get a high score, even if your team loses. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't seem to get this, thus you end up with the servers with unbalanced teams, a blow out, and the winning team high score is 17, lol!