N.A.T.O
The People’s Champion
+59|6745|A drop house
So wtf is the big deal here anyways. Its our most advanced fighter aircraft ever produced, what did you think, we would just start selling them? "Regarding the F-22, our current position is that the airplane will not be made available to foreign military sales. "   so its not like we just don’t want to give it to Australia.
Anyways does Australia really need the F-22? I don’t think Australia is in that big of need of a $172 million stealth fighter aircraft.

Last edited by N.A.T.O (2007-02-19 01:04:52)

BN
smells like wee wee
+159|7073

N.A.T.O wrote:

So wtf is the big deal here anyways. Its our most advanced fighter aircraft ever produced, what did you think, we would just start selling them? "Regarding the F-22, our current position is that the airplane will not be made available to foreign military sales. "   so its not like we just don’t want to give it to Australia.
Anyways does Australia really need the F-22? I don’t think Australia is in that big of need of a $172 million stealth fighter aircraft.
But we have terrorists all around us!!!

Be alert, not alarmed
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|7019|US
...and you think the F-22 will stop the terrorists???

Seriously, the F-22 was built to guarantee air dominance over ANY air force.  They are not designed to stop terrorists, unless those terrorists are flying advanced fighter aircraft or something similar.  How many countries are possible enemies of your nation?  How many of them posses cutting edge air forces?  The US wants to maintain its superiority so that we can safely overcome any hostile nation's air forces.  In the long term, we are likely looking to counter anything China can produce or that Russia can sell...that last bit is my opinion.
BN
smells like wee wee
+159|7073

RAIMIUS wrote:

...and you think the F-22 will stop the terrorists???

Seriously, the F-22 was built to guarantee air dominance over ANY air force.  They are not designed to stop terrorists, unless those terrorists are flying advanced fighter aircraft or something similar.  How many countries are possible enemies of your nation?  How many of them posses cutting edge air forces?  The US wants to maintain its superiority so that we can safely overcome any hostile nation's air forces.  In the long term, we are likely looking to counter anything China can produce or that Russia can sell...that last bit is my opinion.
I was saying it more tongue in cheek.

does the f-22 have any use? Wars, these days, are no longer army V army.

Australians biggest threat is Indonesia. Don't get me started on those fuckers!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,060|7077|PNW

BN wrote:

RAIMIUS wrote:

...and you think the F-22 will stop the terrorists???

Seriously, the F-22 was built to guarantee air dominance over ANY air force.  They are not designed to stop terrorists, unless those terrorists are flying advanced fighter aircraft or something similar.  How many countries are possible enemies of your nation?  How many of them posses cutting edge air forces?  The US wants to maintain its superiority so that we can safely overcome any hostile nation's air forces.  In the long term, we are likely looking to counter anything China can produce or that Russia can sell...that last bit is my opinion.
I was saying it more tongue in cheek.

does the f-22 have any use? Wars, these days, are no longer army V army.

Australians biggest threat is Indonesia. Don't get me started on those fuckers!
Understanding sarcasm seems to be a lost art here.
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6672|Columbus, Ohio
For real.  Make your own plane then.  Why is it just the US, Europe, and Russia that make all types of planes from commercial to military?
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6951
I think we were originally going to sell Australia a stripped down version of the F-22.
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|7019|US

BN wrote:

I was saying it more tongue in cheek.

does the f-22 have any use? Wars, these days, are no longer army V army.

Australians biggest threat is Indonesia. Don't get me started on those fuckers!
Yeah, I was definitely not paying attention to who was posting.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6906|132 and Bush

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

I think we were originally going to sell Australia a stripped down version of the F-22.
Whats that mean? They get aluminum rims?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
sfarrar33
Halogenoalkane
+57|6923|InGerLand

usmarine2007 wrote:

sfarrar33 wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

Yep.  Cops are asshole dickwads until you need them right?
nope they are quite nice people on the whole when i don't need them
they are never around or are generally incompetent when i do need them

and deary me what country can i apply that to...i really can't think of a country that i can compare that too...8-)
(before anyone at all mentions a world war with any form of number i say Falklands as a 'pre-emptive strike' against such arguments)
What are you like 15?  What the hell are you talking about?
easy
i was waiting for someone to go "well we saved your ass in world war II" (because i've noticed on this forums that theres always one idiot who will say it) despite the debatability of the reasons that America entered into WWII.
Anyways my counter argument to people who say "we always go to help your country and we don't need to" is "no you don't, just think of the Falklands"

Last edited by sfarrar33 (2007-02-19 16:21:19)

Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6951

Kmarion wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

I think we were originally going to sell Australia a stripped down version of the F-22.
Whats that mean? They get aluminum rims?
Basically a version that has less features and capabilities so that the US can export it without compromising its air superiority.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6906|132 and Bush

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

I think we were originally going to sell Australia a stripped down version of the F-22.
Whats that mean? They get aluminum rims?
Basically a version that has less features and capabilities so that the US can export it without compromising its air superiority.
Ahh. but probably still capable of these numbers.

In early 2006, after an exercise involving just eight F-22s in Nevada in Nov. 2005, Lieutenant Colonel Jim Hecker, commander of the 27th Fighter Squadron (FS) at Langley AFB, Virginia, commented "We killed 33 F-15Cs and didn't suffer a single loss. They didn't see us at all."

In June 2006 during Exercise Northern Edge (Alaska's largest joint military training exercise), the F-22A achieved a 144-to-zero kill-to-loss ratio against F-15s, F-16s and F/A-18s simulating MiG-29 'Fulcrums', Su-30 'Flankers', and other current front line Russian aircraft, which outnumbered the F-22A 4 to 1 at times. The small F-22 force of 12 aircraft generated 49% of the total kills for the exercise, and operated with an unprecedented reliability rate of 97%.

An F-15 has never been shot down in combat.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6951
Even a stripped down F-22 is still better than anything Russia, China, or anyone else has (except, of course, the fully loaded F-22).
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6906|132 and Bush

*Clear* Your good to go...

I brought this thread back to life since I will be going to check the Raptor out next weekend.
I'll get to the bottom of this fellas. "So what, you think your to good for Australia?"
http://www.macdillservices.com/myairfest/aircraft.htm
I'll at least have some pics to share . Too bad no B-2 this year though.

https://i5.tinypic.com/48ykaa1.jpg
Previous year
Xbone Stormsurgezz
theelviscerator
Member
+19|6593
Feel free to build your own jets, we are just dumb americans remember?
SoC./Omega
Member
+122|6846|Omaha, Nebraska!
this is just my guess....MAYBE BECAUSE ITS NOT IN SERVICE YET?
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6798|Connecticut

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Ty wrote:

I didn't derail it, it evolved naturally Mister Pollux.


I think I'm gonna start using that one.

Ty wrote:

Edit: And Australia has been a US ally since World War Two, before then was allied to Britain who have been on the same side as the US since about the time the US war of independance stopped. How long does it take for two countries to become mates?
It has nothing to do with trust, or being "mates", or anything like that. Countries simply do not export their most top secret technology and developments.

Let's say the U.S. is a CIA agent, and Australia is his wife. The CIA agent is bound to keep all of his knowledge top-secret, even from his wife. But they still have sex. And one day, the wife (Australia) will get pregnant.

Does this analogy clear things up?
We "bang" a lot of countries. They step into intentionally just to get child support.
Malloy must go
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6798|Connecticut
I bet the F-22 doesnt even have an MP3 player in it. Peice of shit.
Malloy must go
BVC
Member
+325|7000

Kmarion wrote:

*Clear* Your good to go...
...
Looking at those photos reminded me of an old job sorting freight at the airport here, we'd occasionally see USAF flights associated with the antarctic programma come in and out of Christchurch.  Bloody hell Galaxys are quiet considering the size of them!!
13rin
Member
+977|6784

BN wrote:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,21222473-2,00.html?from=public_rss

Malaysia and Indonesia are getting the Sukhoi Su-30 and we get the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

Apparently the F-35 is outmatched by the Su-35 Flankers.

We give the US a nice new base
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/secret … 03064.html

and what do we get?

SWEET FA
Linebackers
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
blisteringsilence
I'd rather hunt with Cheney than ride with Kennedy
+83|7007|Little Rock, Arkansas

Pubic wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

*Clear* Your good to go...
...
Looking at those photos reminded me of an old job sorting freight at the airport here, we'd occasionally see USAF flights associated with the antarctic programma come in and out of Christchurch.  Bloody hell Galaxys are quiet considering the size of them!!
You can't hit what you can't see or hear.....

If you think a galaxy is quiet, you've got to hear an MC-130 Combat Talon. It's amazing that an airplane with 4 turboprop engines is that quiet.
Magpie
international welder....Douchebag Dude, <3 ur mom
+257|6831|Milkystania, yurop

Kmarion wrote:

The US does not sell it's stealth technology from what I have read. If I spent hundreds of billions developing something I doubt I would just hand it over to a friend. Especially when it seems less and less of those friends are supporting me. Even with the go ahead with a new base. I'm pretty sure there is more that goes on with those discussions. It would be vary naive for us to believe there was a simplistic "barter" system that should allow for the free transaction of weapons technology. Harsh realities I guess. Anyone here that claims to know the motives behind the sharing of cutting edge weapons technology is blowing smoke up your ass. All weapons are built around fear. The US and their Allies have shared a wealth of new technology over the years. Pretending that the US is selfish is a way of showing that Australians should not support this new base. That's all this appears to be to me.
Norway had/has F-117 a few years back,
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6866

usmarine2007 wrote:

For real.  Make your own plane then.  Why is it just the US, Europe, and Russia that make all types of planes from commercial to military?
You do realise that without our investment the F-35 wouldn't have been reality?
some_random_panda
Flamesuit essential
+454|6695

Bubbalo wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

For real.  Make your own plane then.  Why is it just the US, Europe, and Russia that make all types of planes from commercial to military?
You do realise that without our investment the F-35 wouldn't have been reality?
Yes...in a way, we sort of paid for some of the planes.
Unfortunately, this investment didn't pay off.
Cheddarmuff
Member
+21|6957
The reason is simple, keep the best for yourself, everything we sell to our allies is still superior to most of the weaponry in service today, just not the cutting edge stuff.  Why should we share everything...?  We spent all the money developing the weapons/iPods/Software (you pick the product) why should everyone get off easy just buying a product....sorry, the world doesn't work that way!

Ty posted some stuff about how the US supplied various countries with weapons, not sure where you are from (don't know where noizyland is) but most countries sell weapons and other stuff to other countries, be it Iran, Iraq, Somalia, what have you....the countries that don't sell stuff just don't have anything to sell (at least nothing anyone wants).

I don't have a problem if the US keeps the "good stuff" for themselves, or if the UK, Australia, Iran, etc. do the same, it is their right if they were able to invent the thing...guess what folks, life isn't fair, if you suck and can't develop something for yourself then you don't deserve to have/use the product until the inventor sees fit...if ever.

Oh, TY the US is not based on fear other than the fear that everyone wants to mooch off them for aid, weapons, etc...take a look, the US helps more countries in the world than any other...not that the US is the best country in the world but we are at least trying to do something (right or wrong) rather than sit on the sidelines bitching about everyone else (many countries in this bucket).

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2025 Jeff Minard