BF2S Forums Why do these Shootings Happen so often in the US?

Vilham wrote:

Im lowing all these Americans defending gun ownership when all facts point towards the fact that legal guns = more homicides, accidental deaths and home-owners getting shot. It defies belief that someone wants to own a gun that badly.

Last edited by Pug (2007-02-15 18:20:26)

Smitty5613 wrote:

Invaderzim wrote:

I think it does have to do with the right to bear arm's but i also believe the some cultural aspects influence these shootings too.

Having the right to bear arms should be a brivlage not a right, guns are way to dangerous for everyone to have one. The idea that people will be detered from shooting someone because they could get shot themselves is absolutly rediculus as seen here because the person doing the shooting does not care if they die or not. If there was no right ot bear arms then this person would find it very hard to come by a gun in the first place.

Culture is also very much to blame, how many music videos do you see with someone holding a chromed up deagle or something like that? I'm sure that the prevalance of guns in todays culture has a part to play in all this

i think it is a right if the constitution says it is......

sergeriver wrote:

It was my mistake opening this thread because people misunderstood the point.  I wanted to relate these episodes with the Right to Bear Arms.  It was not my intention to create another flame war.  I apologize.  Let's discuss that issue.  Do you believe the Right to Bear Arms increase the number of shootings that occur in US or not?  Simple.  Don't start another comparison between countries.  Shit happens everywhere.

sergeriver wrote:

I think it's a mistake letting anyone to own a gun.  Handling a gun is easy, what is not easy is knowing how to use it properly.  That's my whole point here, nothing else, and you can disagree, that's why this is a debate.  I just don't get the concept of feeling yourself safer with a gun.  What is the police for?

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Armed Man Kills 5 at Mall in Utah

This episode and the one in Philadelphia, took the lives of 8 people. 

Why do these shootings happen so often in the US?  Would they happen without the Right to Bear Arms?  Is it safe a civilian carrying a gun?  I'm asking, not making a judgement.  I want to know your opinion about these cases, because they happen frequently.

http://www.edicionnacional.com/edicion/ … culo/21084

Do these happen frequently? Because it's amazing how people ignore their problems so often in favor of heaping verbal dung on the US and our rights. Not saying you are, in this instance, but still...

(my Spanish is sloppy, so correct me if it's just an article about Big Macs and heart attacks)

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2007-02-16 02:11:38)

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

Well the Utah one was some little punk ass who's parents will probably blame it on heavy metal.

I dont believe the right to bear arms is a direct link to crazy people bearing arms and killing people. For every asshole who can't handle life and goes on a shooting rampage, there are 1,000,000 who don't.

The way our world is going now we're lucky there aren't 20-30 of these a day. I'd say we're doing pretty darn good.

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Why do kids start to smoke ? - Because its to easy to get hold of !
Why do kids start to drink ? - Because its to easy to get hold of !
Why do kids start shooting guns ? - Because its to easy to get hold of !

As a silly sidenote

Can a kid in Norway go find a loaded gun in his parents bedroom ? - No he cant !
Can a kid in Norway go find a porn magazine in his parents bedroom ? - Yes he can !

So exchange guns with porn and everything is okay, he will be busy jerking off instead of killing his class mates !

Gun shops in my area don't sell milk or M60's. Why does everyone in Europe seem to think that every American is more heavily-armed than Rambo?

First set:

I could get access to both cigarettes, alcohol and guns when I was a kid. If not through my parents home, then through others. But I didn't do it.

Second set:

False logic, silly as promised. Not only can you can kill people without handguns, but a handgun doesn't emit subliminal mind waves going "KILL WITH ME! KILL WITH MEEEE!"

Last edited by sergeriver (2007-02-16 04:11:18)

I_SUCK_999 wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

mcjagdflieger wrote:

so your saying because of what happened then, we cant compare what happened afterwards? even after it was abolished? his point was they reformed their gun laws, and gun crimes rose. and you say its not a valid argument because of a gov. reformation?

That's exactly what I'm saying. The massive social upheval that occured was a much more significant event than the new gun laws.

South Africa went from a White minority rule to a democracy. The South African government prior to 1993 was a police state where they could and did drag people off in the middle of the night to imprison, torture and sometimes even kill them. The swapping of govenments lead to a huge backlash by the poor majority against the minority rich white landowners which included huge numbers of deaths as the farmowners were targeted.

Anyone who thinks the change in gun laws were the signifcant factor in changing the homicide rates in South Africa during that period doen't know much about South Africa

how does the vast majority of black on black violence equate to a huge backlash - 98% of those 30000 murders/gun deaths are black killing black. nevermind the 5000 policemen killed in the line of duty.

oh and the majority of whites in South Africa are NOT rich - ever heard of working middle class. same ratio as in UK (for example)

DesertFox423 wrote:

All this "accidental shooting" garbage is illogical to begin with. If some parent does keep a loaded pistol in their room with no security whatsoever, that person hardly deserves to be a parent. All it does is give fodder to those who are scared of 'em.

I_SUCK_999 wrote:

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

I_SUCK_999 wrote:

how does the vast majority of black on black violence equate to a huge backlash - 98% of those 30000 murders/gun deaths are black killing black. nevermind the 5000 policemen killed in the line of duty.

oh and the majority of whites in South Africa are NOT rich - ever heard of working middle class. same ratio as in UK (for example)

Actually South Africa still has one of the most extreme wealth distributions in the world. the rich are very rich and the poor (who make up the vast majority) are pretty damned poor. Besides which, prior to the end of Apartheid South Africa was pertty much a police state which, like most other police states, were very good at imposing totalitarian control over its citizens by use of fear and violence. With that gone crime naturally rose, having nothing to do with the ban on guns.

I was born in South Africa - half of my family are still there (can't afford the airfare out - even if there was a country that would allow them to migrate. My point is that only a very small minority of WHITES are rich - the vast majority struggle from day to day (pay packet to pay packet) - and the vast majority of crime has nothing to do with the have nots against the haves.

South Africa has massive unemployment and no welfare system at all - thus the high crime levels. The crime levels ramped up gradually after the abolishment of the "pass laws" when urban drift resulted in huge numbers of unemployed blacks flooding cities like Johannesburg and not being able to support their families in legitimate ways.

sergeriver wrote:

Read these stats and tell me guns are not dangerous:

America is losing too many children to gun violence. Between 1979 and 2001, gunfire killed 90,000 children and teens in America. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics)

The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)

American kids are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control)

In 1998-99 academic year, 3,523 students were expelled for bringing a firearm to school. This is a decrease from the 5,724 students expelled in 1996-97 for bringing a firearm to school. (U.S. Department of Education, October 2000)

Nearly 8% of adolescents in urban junior and senior high schools miss at least one day of school each month because they are afraid to attend. (National Mental Health & Education Center for Children & Families, National Association of School Psychologists 1998)

Terrorists have purchased firearms at gun shows, where unlicensed sellers are not currently required to conduct background checks or to ask for identification.

This is a comparison between Canada and US.

usmarine2007 wrote:

Varegg wrote:

5.Do we have a paranoid government teaching us to be afraid of everything ?
6.Are we allowed to have a M60 for personal safety ?
7.Can we buy tech ammunition and milk in the same store ?
8.Do we have capitol punishment to prevent further murders ?
9.Do we get our kids a membership in the NRA on their first birthday ?

You do know every state has different laws on the stuff you mention?