BF2S Forums The Islamization of Europe’s Cities

Vil...did you bother to read the article I linked to?
Can't tell from your post.

A definitive support of the article:

ATG wrote:

Karma points ready to dish out to the best arguments that this is not a problem.

Turns into a sudden retraction:

ATG wrote:

It's fodder for debate, take it as it is.

And he reckons I'm full of double talk .

Is it my fault that he's constantly accusing me of double talk, or that he's done a backflip on his support for the article, or that he ignored 2 of my 3 posts?

But how can I debate his article if he just ignores anything that he doesn't want to respond to?

Bubbalo wrote:

So you're complaining that the religion of violence is peacefully migrating?

Besides which, the articles own links contradict it.  For example, the article claims that the Muslims are moving into the cities and pushing the non-Muslims out (a ridiculous claim given that non-Muslims would first have to move out to make room for the Muslims) - yet one of the articles talks about about ghettos in France, calling them "high-rise complexes that have been built far away from the city center to house African and Arab immigrants".

groan

This is the post I addressed when I quoted you, which you so vociferously rant about.

Simply; you obviously are ignorant of European, or perhaps even world affairs. You offer nothing here for me to rebuke, as it is all meaningless contradiction.

Bubbalo wrote:

The bulk of violence in Paris is from discontent youths angry about unemployment.

Of course, I doubt there's any point even trying to point out the flaws to ATG....................

According to the experts I read from, it is a mix of Al Qaida inspired terrorism and petty thuggery; the forming admittedly being m,ore prevalent than the latter.

Bubbalo wrote:

rawls2 wrote:

Wow so the existence of no-go zones as mentioned in the article is a lie. Funny hao you all can post links to support your opinions but this guys is just propoganda.
Hastamamaleyka Europe!

One criminologist claims that whilst working for the government she identified 808 "sensitive" areas.  She was fired shortly thereafter.  So, either you can believe the creatively interpreted words of an unemployed criminologist, or you can not.  I really don't care.

Me neither.

Bubbalo wrote:

Wow, you've taken the shortest of three posts I've made and complained about me trying to provoke you.  Good work.  Have a cookie.

I addressed this one before.

Bubbalo wrote:

So you don't think that the fact that the article contradicts itself through it's sources has any relevance?

Some maybe, not much, the gist of it is axiomatic.

Bubbalo wrote:

A definitive support of the article:

ATG wrote:

Karma points ready to dish out to the best arguments that this is not a problem.

Turns into a sudden retraction:

ATG wrote:

It's fodder for debate, take it as it is.

And he reckons I'm full of double talk .

Again, your purpose is to contradict me, no more, IMO.

rolleyes.

Bubbalo wrote:

Is it my fault that he's constantly accusing me of double talk, or that he's done a backflip on his support for the article, or that he ignored 2 of my 3 posts?

I addressed that earlier; write something provocative.

Bubbalo wrote:

But how can I debate his article if he just ignores anything that he doesn't want to respond to?

Your Australian. You know as much about Europes ISlamic problem as I do. Maybe I'm more interested in hearing from Eurotrashpeans than I am from you. 

Vilham wrote:

Then he has lost. Leave it at that. If he cant disprove or even debate what you say his point is invalid.

What?

Bubbalo wrote:

ATG wrote:

Simply; you obviously are ignorant of European, or perhaps even world affairs.

How do you get that out of what I said?  I didn't say what the situation in Europe was, I said that, regardless
of the situation, the article quotes sources which directly contradict it.

ATG wrote:

You offer nothing here for me to rebuke, as it is all meaningless contradiction.

What contradictory statements do I make?

ATG wrote:

According to the experts I read from, it is a mix of Al Qaida inspired terrorism and petty thuggery; the forming admittedly being m,ore prevalent than the latter.

Which experts?

ATG wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

One criminologist claims that whilst working for the government she identified 808 "sensitive" areas.  She was fired shortly thereafter.  So, either you can believe the creatively interpreted words of an unemployed criminologist, or you can not.  I really don't care.

Me neither.

So you're just as happy with a lie as with the truth.

That explains a lot, I guess.

ATG wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

So you don't think that the fact that the article contradicts itself through it's sources has any relevance?

Some maybe, not much, the gist of it is axiomatic.

So, an article which proves itself to be wrong is, in your eyes, a valid proof of the situation?

Bubbalo wrote:

A definitive support of the article:

ATG wrote:

Karma points ready to dish out to the best arguments that this is not a problem.

Turns into a sudden retraction:


And he reckons I'm full of double talk .

Again, your purpose is to contradict me, no more, IMO.

No, I pointed out that you contradicted yourself.

ATG wrote:

Your Australian. You know as much about Europes ISlamic problem as I do. Maybe I'm more interested in hearing from Eurotrashpeans than I am from you. 

Yet when they tell you that there's no problem, you ignore them.

I read from many sources, not just BF2S.com...

Sweet feathery Jeezly Crow Bubs I quoted every goddawned thing you said, whatiya want from me a novel?

ATG wrote:

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1183/print
http://i5.tinypic.com/48e0arp.jpg

I invite you to read the article.
Karma points ready to dish out to the best arguments that this is not a problem.

It IS becoming a problem, but you ARE missing the point, ATG.

The origin of the problem is not the Muslim religion, the Muslim religion is only used to give themselves a sort of identity they are clearly lacking since they have no education and are rejected by the local society.

Now, in most countries the first immigration started some 50+ years ago, and was mainly due to the new industrial wave and rebuilding efforts after WWII.

Each country had their own immigrants: Belgium attracted Italians and Turks (mines) at first, and then came the people from Morocco (industry). They stayed here, worked hard, and after a few years they brought their families here to live together. No problem so far. They spoke only part of our language, kept most of their habits and customs. The second generation, those who were born here, did not pose a problem either. They had jobs, spoke the language, left the traditional customs for a large part but remained for a part loyal to tradition.

The first problems started some 10 years ago with the third generation Moroccans, they speak the language but left the schools early (due to social conditions), and half educated with no skills in a rapid evolving society, they find no jobs. So part of them turn to crime - you must know that, since it's the same pattern as in the US with the black community several decades ago. One could say the kids of the former immigrants are our Negro's (sorry if this word is not politically correct in the US, I'm not aware of these issues).

They also turn to the sole thing that binds them: religion. It gives them strength and unity against the 'other' people (Christians) who don't want to employ them. So a very small part (maybe 10 in Belgium) of them turns towards violence.

Now about this in particular:

article wrote:

They leave what was once their country in favor of people such as Dyab Abu Jahjah, founder of the Arab European League (AEL). The AEL, founded in Belgium in 2000, now has branches in the Netherlands and France, and intends to spread across the EU. Jahjah, who has called the 9/11 attacks “sweet revenge,” recruits Muslim youth to spread his ideology, which calls for the introduction of sharia in Europe. “We have three basic demands,” he says. “Bilingual education for Arab-speaking kids, hiring quotas that protect Muslims, and the right to keep our cultural customs.” “Assimilation is cultural rape. It means renouncing your identity, becoming like the others.” Jahjah has also demanded that Arabic should be made an official language in Belgium. Belgium’s Jews, in particular Antwerp’s Jewish diamond merchants, have earlier felt threatened by the Arab European League (AEL), which issued a statement: “The AEL calls on the Jewish community in Antwerp to cease its support of, and distance itself from, the state of Israel. If not, attacks in Antwerp are almost unpreventable.”

I live in Antwerp, and let me tell you, this guy Abu is a joke: he came here from Lebanon, claimed he was from hezbollah but didn't want to fight anymore so had to leave the country, got married here, went to university and created a political party to counter the extreme right. His party was ridiculed in recent elections and he was countered by the police on several charges, so he had to go to Holland, and after that he went back to Lebanon (last year).

So to conclude: it is becoming a nuisance that some individuals are using the fact that large parts of uneducated youngsters without a job are unhappy with their situation for their own political agenda and benefit, and try to turn them 'to Islam'.  Give these guys jobs and most of the problems will disappear.

Same in France or elsewhere: youngsters are using their religion because they are unhappy with their situation, not because they are jihad's. Something like the Black panther movement and Malcolm X in the US.

Now, do I get a karma point?

Kukulcan wrote:

This is anti muslim propaganda cleary , i understood this only by the first statements.

Here in italy we have many muslims.... there are good one , and bad one. Muslims integralists that preach ''KILL THE INFIDELS! YARR! '' and more moderated one.

Islam itself isn't a violent religion at all.... in past times they were know for not slaving the nations they conquered but integrate them and LET THEM PRAISE THEIR OWN GODS , in private , naturally.

Real islam is about peace and tolerance.... read the Qur'an. I have no god... i read the Chrisitian Bible , the Jewish Torah , the Muslim Qur'An and other religious books as personal interests.

I don't think that muslims are substituting our heads in the society.

Didn't the founder of Islam lead those conquering armies? Oh my, how nice of them to give those they didn't slaughter the choice of converting or being a subservient class if they wished to worship their own gods.   I agree moderate non-radical Islamic followers are peaceful, but I'm not convinced of the same regarding its founder.

Stingray24 wrote:

Kukulcan wrote:

This is anti muslim propaganda cleary , i understood this only by the first statements.

Here in italy we have many muslims.... there are good one , and bad one. Muslims integralists that preach ''KILL THE INFIDELS! YARR! '' and more moderated one.

Islam itself isn't a violent religion at all.... in past times they were know for not slaving the nations they conquered but integrate them and LET THEM PRAISE THEIR OWN GODS , in private , naturally.

Real islam is about peace and tolerance.... read the Qur'an. I have no god... i read the Chrisitian Bible , the Jewish Torah , the Muslim Qur'An and other religious books as personal interests.

I don't think that muslims are substituting our heads in the society.

Didn't the founder of Islam lead those conquering armies? Oh my, how nice of them to give those they didn't slaughter the choice of converting or being a subservient class if they wished to worship their own gods.   I agree moderate non-radical Islamic followers are peaceful, but I'm not convinced of the same regarding its founder.

What locations did the Prophet conquer with his armies?

Spearhead wrote:

I have BEEN to Paris and I can tell you that that is a load of bullcrap. 

All big cities have prominent ethnic groups from other parts of the world.  It's more of a cultural thing than it is a terrorism thing. 

What you are doing would be like blaming the crime in Miami on Cuban immigrants.  Yeah, some of that stuff is crazy, but it's far from being a takeover of an entire city, or NATION, as that article implies.

Ya mean the raise in crime in Miami, ISN'T from Cuban immigrants??

Last edited by lowing (2007-02-02 15:39:19)