Pages: 1 2

 

Poll

Do you agree with union-led strike action in public services?

Yes54%54% - 24
No38%38% - 17
Don't know6%6% - 3
Total: 44
2007-01-31 03:42:36
aardfrith
Δ > x > ¥
+145|7083
Today, the largest union in the UK civil service, PCS, is holding a one-day strike today.  As a result, many public services have been shut down - benefit offices, driving tests, tax claims, that kind of thing.

The reasons for the strike action boil down to below-inflation pay rises, job cuts to reduce staff headcount and external contractors being brought in to do the work that's left.  Of course, external contractors are more expensive.

The choice of today as a day for industrial action is significant - today is the final day for submitting income tax forms for last year and any forms not processed by the end of today would be in line for fines.  So, while the average guy on the street won't care that a work-shy tosser can't claim their benefit today, they may care about getting a £100 fine for submitting their taxes late.

So, do you think it's right that people in public-servicing positions should stop work for a day to try to get their message across?  I know I do.
2007-01-31 05:44:45
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6810|Πάϊ
Depends on the reason now dunn it? In this case, by all means yes.

Last edited by oug (2007-01-31 05:46:22)

ƒ³
2007-01-31 05:47:16
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7057|UK
The government should be giving them a fair wage, there should be some kind of legislation that stops this crap but at the same time allows for some other type of mediation to represent public service workers. The public workers strike to show the government without them huge problems occur but they don't factor in the MAJOR problems this can have for individual people. If i want to complain about something I don't involve other peoples lives.
2007-01-31 05:55:05
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6810|Πάϊ
There's a reason why individual people as you say have to be involved. That's the only way to be heard. In this case people are worried about having to pay 100 quid. This will cause an uprise, the media will devote time to the subject etc etc. If people don't care, you're on your own against a government that doesn't care. And the only way to get what little you may be after is to give the gov. no other alternative. At least that's how things work down here...
ƒ³
2007-01-31 05:55:27
sgt_mango333
Member
+31|6943
Public servants are just that, servants.  If you don't like your job or it has changed from the conditions you took it under, then quit.  It's a sucky choice, but the only thing you accomplish striking in this position is pissing the wrong people off, taking it in the pocket book, and hurting your fellow country men.  Nothing gets solved this way and very few strikes result in a winning scenario for the strikers.

Strikes are stupid in general; as you can tell I don't like Unions.  I was in one and hated it.  I think the idea of a Union is great, but today's implementation needs to be seriously overhauled and the corruption, in many unions, needs to be up rooted.
2007-01-31 06:03:51
TigerXtrm
Death by Indecency
+51|6659|Netherlands

If its the only way they can get their message across, I say hell yea do it. And if people don't understand why you are doing it they can go to hell anyway.

Tiger
2007-01-31 06:18:42
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6810|Πάϊ

sgt_mango333 wrote:

Public servants are just that, servants.  If you don't like your job or it has changed from the conditions you took it under, then quit.  It's a sucky choice, but the only thing you accomplish striking in this position is pissing the wrong people off, taking it in the pocket book, and hurting your fellow country men.  Nothing gets solved this way and very few strikes result in a winning scenario for the strikers.

Strikes are stupid in general; as you can tell I don't like Unions.  I was in one and hated it.  I think the idea of a Union is great, but today's implementation needs to be seriously overhauled and the corruption, in many unions, needs to be up rooted.
Where are you from man? I need to come live there. Sounds great. You don't like your job, you quit and find another! Cool! Coz here, if you don't like your job and quit, nobody gives a fuck. There's plenty of people out there ready to take that job for even less money (which is crap to begin with) and more hours.Talk about unemployment... Oh and as for that other job, well there just aren't any! Unless you call working 50+ hours a week for 500 euros a month.

Get a grip dude. Not everybody is able to quit his job just like that. In fact, I don't know anybody who would take that decision as lightly as you described.
ƒ³
2007-01-31 06:54:16
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6833|Texas - Bigger than France

aardfrith wrote:

The reasons for the strike action boil down to below-inflation pay rises, job cuts to reduce staff headcount and external contractors being brought in to do the work that's left.  Of course, external contractors are more expensive.
I'd look into the situation closer.  If job cuts have been made and pay raises are lower than inflation, this is an indicator that wage costs may be too high, or large correctable inefficiencies existed that needed correcting.  And logically, if all these items are interconnected, cutting the staff and paying the external contractors more money doesn't make sense.  Is the total cost more with the contractors...or is it less?

It doesn't sound like a logical turn of events...irreguardless of the decision to strike or not.
2007-01-31 17:27:08
Ratzinger
Member
+43|6683|Wollongong, NSW, Australia
It's not about economics; contracting allows councils and local govts to throw public money at private companies.

So you put an offer up of work to be done on behalf of the local council - people make tenders, and a committee decides which tender gets the work. And fuck me if it doesn't turn out to be the mayor's brother-in-law's building firm who had the highest bloody quote of all.

Its about corruption and the privatisation of your taxes, and the lost employment that goes along with a smaller public service is irrelevant.

Oh, and Pug? He already said that wages were low, and its the same here in Australia - not keeping pace with inflation and creating new economic sub-classes like the working poor, assisted by new IR laws that favour the employer even more dramatically. Strikes are the last option, but that's where people are now.
2007-01-31 18:10:49
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6942|USA
If you are going to walk off the job, you had better make sure you are to important and valuable to replace. Talk to the ATC's in the 80's. They know.
2007-01-31 18:16:34
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6696|North Carolina

lowing wrote:

If you are going to walk off the job, you had better make sure you are to important and valuable to replace. Talk to the ATC's in the 80's. They know.
I totally agree.  Fuck unions...  They've outlived their usefulness.
2007-01-31 18:16:58
Sondernkommando
Member
+22|7007
Here in Canuckistan, we just learned that public sector benefits are way, way better than private sector.

Monopolies should not be allowed to strike.  Full stop.
2007-01-31 18:27:14
jonsimon
Member
+224|6786

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

If you are going to walk off the job, you had better make sure you are to important and valuable to replace. Talk to the ATC's in the 80's. They know.
I totally agree.  Fuck unions...  They've outlived their usefulness.
People just don't understand that unions are still extremely useful as long as they aren't corrupt. Which a lot of unions are. Government involvement could reform unions in general and they could be beneficial again.
2007-01-31 18:29:32
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6696|North Carolina

jonsimon wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

If you are going to walk off the job, you had better make sure you are to important and valuable to replace. Talk to the ATC's in the 80's. They know.
I totally agree.  Fuck unions...  They've outlived their usefulness.
People just don't understand that unions are still extremely useful as long as they aren't corrupt. Which a lot of unions are. Government involvement could reform unions in general and they could be beneficial again.
Perhaps....  but I still usually prefer the market to clear things rather than a union.

I think people should have the right to form unions and protests, but companies should have the right to hire and fire accordingly.
2007-01-31 18:33:52
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6942|USA

jonsimon wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

If you are going to walk off the job, you had better make sure you are to important and valuable to replace. Talk to the ATC's in the 80's. They know.
I totally agree.  Fuck unions...  They've outlived their usefulness.
People just don't understand that unions are still extremely useful as long as they aren't corrupt. Which a lot of unions are. Government involvement could reform unions in general and they could be beneficial again.
Unions without corruption, is rare if not non-existant.  Kinda like a hard working Teamster.
2007-01-31 18:38:04
smtt686
this is the best we can do?
+95|6922|USA

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

If you are going to walk off the job, you had better make sure you are to important and valuable to replace. Talk to the ATC's in the 80's. They know.
I totally agree.  Fuck unions...  They've outlived their usefulness.
no union member I know ever got a golden parachute!
2007-01-31 18:39:41
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6696|North Carolina

smtt686 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

If you are going to walk off the job, you had better make sure you are to important and valuable to replace. Talk to the ATC's in the 80's. They know.
I totally agree.  Fuck unions...  They've outlived their usefulness.
no union member I know ever got a golden parachute!
Yep, that's because unions generally eat up your salary or wage through "dues."
2007-01-31 18:47:28
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6942|USA

smtt686 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

If you are going to walk off the job, you had better make sure you are to important and valuable to replace. Talk to the ATC's in the 80's. They know.
I totally agree.  Fuck unions...  They've outlived their usefulness.
no union member I know ever got a golden parachute!
Nope they spent their careers sucking every company dry that let a union in the door. Getting free wages without working an honest 8, ever.
I tell you from experience. I was smack in the middle of it . There is not one ounce of work ethic that comes with a union. It is all, what they can get from the company and how much of it. I can tell you stories from hell from the airlines.
2007-01-31 20:23:22
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6784|Connecticut
Unions are like welfare. Both created to do good but have outlived their purpose and now put a strain on society, doing more harm then good. Ironically enough, if you are part of one you are bound to be on the other in most cases.
Malloy must go
2007-02-01 12:52:19
XCheapshotX
Member
+2|6604|Geordie Land
Hmm, seeing as I went to work yesterday and crossed the actual picket line maybe I should comment?

I don't have a problem with the union itself, the PCS its called, just I chose not to join it. Why?

If 70% ( in my office ) of its members are women then it is isn't ever going to be taken seriously IMO. Also that and the Union have been powerless to stop all but one of my staff having their contracts terminated and not renewed and so are jobless from March would lead me to believe that they have no political teeth.

Also, the strike was on pay day, and most of my staff went to the job centre then home or to the pub. Not one joined the picket line or said they had travelled to town to go to the rally, they used the day as a non paid day off.

Finally, I get paid shit compared to my friends in the private sector as the pay deals brokered by the PCs and the government are usually at the base rate of inflation but staff are instead given "incentives" such as more flexible working hours which are of no use to me at all. If there comes a time when I believe the union would broker a fair pay deal I would join.

I realise that by not striking I am only weakening the bargaining position of the union, but if it has no control ( so I see it ) over job cuts, pay rises , etc anyway what difference does it make...
2007-02-01 14:29:28
apollo_fi
The Flying Kalakukko.
+94|6822|The lunar module

aardfrith wrote:

So, do you think it's right that people in public-servicing positions should stop work for a day to try to get their message across?  I know I do.
Of course they should, the right to strike applies to the public sector as well as the private sector

IMO, if you are your own employer (or in the very top management of a company), you are excused for not belonging in an union. In all other cases, union membership is the only responsible choice.
2007-02-02 04:35:41
Milk.org
Bringing Sexy Back
+270|7067|UK
Well there are those in the position who cannot strike under pay conditions i.e the armed forces their pay has been well below that of the fire and police service for years. My mum's a nurse and my dad works in the psychiatric wing of a Cat. A prison & in a public service job you gotta realise your pay will never be outstanding. Go work and private sector if your chasing a fat wage and company car.
2007-02-02 04:43:01
cospengle
Member
+140|6778|Armidale, NSW, Australia
The "public service" employees should have the same rights to fair pay and conditions as everyone else. BTW can you name an industry that doesn't supply the public in some way?
2007-02-02 05:37:21
TeamZephyr
Maintaining My Rage Since 1975
+124|6820|Hillside, Melbourne, Australia

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

If you are going to walk off the job, you had better make sure you are to important and valuable to replace. Talk to the ATC's in the 80's. They know.
I totally agree.  Fuck unions...  They've outlived their usefulness.
Bull, worker's unions are essential to maintain the principle of a "responsible and accountable" government in a democracy. It's part of the checks and balances system that the people make sure that the government is treating them well and representing them.

If we didn't have unions we would have a lot people getting sub-standard wage and bad conditions because they don't have the power to stand up to the government for their entitlements.

United we stand, divided we fall
2007-02-02 08:56:47
samfink
Member
+31|6846
depends on WHAT public services. this is what i think the list of services where strikes are banned should be:
Fire brigade
Police
Ambulances
Prison Service
Armed Forces

List where there should be specialarrangements in the event of a strike, and what arrangemeents:
HM revenue&Customs, extension for the elngth of the strike, customs enforcement officals can't strike.
as for why the list, it would create a serious problem if those people went onstrike, armed forces, the country could eb overrun, ambulances, people WILL die, police, criminals would run rampant, fire brigade, fires wouldn't be out out.

 

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