Poll

Do you agree with John Howard

No to Sharia Law in Australia82%82% - 42
Yes to Sharia Law in Australia15%15% - 8
Why not both ways1%1% - 1
Total: 51
smtt686
this is the best we can do?
+95|7057|USA
I know this is long, but its interesting and very important to a lot of people.

See also        http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/australia.asp

Muslims  who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were
told on Wednesday to get out  of Australia, as the government targeted
radicals in a bid to head off  potential terror attacks.

A day  after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged
loyalty to Australia and  her Queen at a special meeting with Prime
Minister John Howard, he and his  Ministers made it clear that extremists
would face a crackdown.   Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent
to Howard, hinted that some  radical clerics could be asked to leave the
country if they did not accept  that Australia was a secular state, and its
laws were made by  parliament.  "If those are not your values, if you want
a country which  has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is
not for you", he  said on National Television.

"I'd be  saying to clerics who are teaching that there are
two laws governing people  in Australia: one the Australian law and another
Islamic law that is  false.  If you can't agree with parliamentary law,
independent courts,  democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the
opportunity to go to  another country, which practices it, perhaps, then,
that's a better option",  Costello said.

Asked  whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to
leave, he said those  with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move
to the other  country.  Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told
reporters that  Muslims who did not want to accept local values should
"clear off.   Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who
don't want, to  live by Australian values and understand them, well then,
they can basically  clear off", he said.

Separately,  Howard angered some Australian Muslims on
Wednesday by saying he supported  spy agencies monitoring the nation's 
mosques.

Quote:  "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT.  Take It
Or Leave It.  I  am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are
offending some  individual or their culture.  Since the terrorist attacks
on Bali, we  have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of 
Australians."

"However,  the dust from the attacks had barely settled when
the 'politically correct'  crowd began complaining about the possibility
that our patriotism was  offending others.  I am not against immigration,
nor do I hold a grudge  against anyone who is seeking a better life by
coming to Australia."   "However, there are a few things that those who
have recently come to our  country, and apparently some born here, need to
understand."  "This  idea of Australia being a multi-cultural community has
served only to dilute  our sovereignty and our national identity.  And as
Australians, we have  our own culture, our own society, our own language
and our own  lifestyle."

"This  culture has been developed over two centuries of
struggles, trials and  victories by millions of men and women who have
sought  freedom"

"We  speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic,
Chinese, Japanese,  Russian, or any other language.  Therefore, if you wish
to become part  of our society .. Learn the language!"

"Most  Australians believe in God.  This is not some
Christian, right wing,  political push, but a fact, because Christian men
and women, on Christian  principles, founded this nation, and this is
clearly documented.  It is  certainly appropriate to display it on the
walls of our schools.  If  God offends you, then I suggest you consider
another part of the world as  your new home, because God is part of our 
culture."

"We  will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. 
All we ask is  that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful
enjoyment with  us."

"If  the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A
Fair Go", then you  should seriously consider a move to another part of
this planet.  We  are happy with our culture and have no desire to change,
and we really  don't  care how you did things where you came from.  By all
means,  keep your culture, but do not force it on  others.

"This  is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we
will allow you every  opportunity to enjoy all this.  But once you are done
complaining,  whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our
Christian beliefs, or  Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take
advantage of one other great  Australian freedom,

'THE  RIGHT TO LEAVE'."
"If you  aren't happy here then LEAVE.  We didn't force you
to come here. You  asked to be here.  So accept the country YOU  accepted."
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6831|North Carolina
If John Howard actually did this, then kudos to him.

Fuck Shari'a Law.  That's just a fancy phrase for oppression.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6987
Sure.  At the same time, Johnnie can kick out his Christian extremist buddies (including Steve Fielding).
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6831|North Carolina

Bubbalo wrote:

Sure.  At the same time, Johnnie can kick out his Christian extremist buddies (including Steve Fielding).
Sounds good to me...  Fuck any form of religious extremism.
BVC
Member
+325|7121
If he did say it, +1 to John Howard!
Fenix14
scout rush kekeke ^___^
+116|6983|Brisbane, Aus

smtt686 wrote:

I know this is long, but its interesting and very important to a lot of people.

See also        http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/australia.asp

Muslims  who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were
told on Wednesday to get out  of Australia, as the government targeted
radicals in a bid to head off  potential terror attacks.

A day  after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged
loyalty to Australia and  her Queen at a special meeting with Prime
Minister John Howard, he and his  Ministers made it clear that extremists
would face a crackdown.   Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent
to Howard, hinted that some  radical clerics could be asked to leave the
country if they did not accept  that Australia was a secular state, and its
laws were made by  parliament.  "If those are not your values, if you want
a country which  has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is
not for you", he  said on National Television.

"I'd be  saying to clerics who are teaching that there are
two laws governing people  in Australia: one the Australian law and another
Islamic law that is  false.  If you can't agree with parliamentary law,
independent courts,  democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the
opportunity to go to  another country, which practices it, perhaps, then,
that's a better option",  Costello said.

Asked  whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to
leave, he said those  with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move
to the other  country.  Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told
reporters that  Muslims who did not want to accept local values should
"clear off.   Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who
don't want, to  live by Australian values and understand them, well then,
they can basically  clear off", he said.

Separately,  Howard angered some Australian Muslims on
Wednesday by saying he supported  spy agencies monitoring the nation's 
mosques.

Quote:  "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT.  Take It
Or Leave It.  I  am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are
offending some  individual or their culture.  Since the terrorist attacks
on Bali, we  have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of 
Australians."

"However,  the dust from the attacks had barely settled when
the 'politically correct'  crowd began complaining about the possibility
that our patriotism was  offending others.  I am not against immigration,
nor do I hold a grudge  against anyone who is seeking a better life by
coming to Australia."   "However, there are a few things that those who
have recently come to our  country, and apparently some born here, need to
understand."  "This  idea of Australia being a multi-cultural community has
served only to dilute  our sovereignty and our national identity.  And as
Australians, we have  our own culture, our own society, our own language
and our own  lifestyle."

"This  culture has been developed over two centuries of
struggles, trials and  victories by millions of men and women who have
sought  freedom"

"We  speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic,
Chinese, Japanese,  Russian, or any other language.  Therefore, if you wish
to become part  of our society .. Learn the language!"

"Most  Australians believe in God.  This is not some
Christian, right wing,  political push, but a fact, because Christian men
and women, on Christian  principles, founded this nation, and this is
clearly documented.  It is  certainly appropriate to display it on the
walls of our schools.  If  God offends you, then I suggest you consider
another part of the world as  your new home, because God is part of our 
culture."

"We  will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. 
All we ask is  that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful
enjoyment with  us."

"If  the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A
Fair Go", then you  should seriously consider a move to another part of
this planet.  We  are happy with our culture and have no desire to change,
and we really  don't  care how you did things where you came from.  By all
means,  keep your culture, but do not force it on  others.

"This  is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we
will allow you every  opportunity to enjoy all this.  But once you are done
complaining,  whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our
Christian beliefs, or  Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take
advantage of one other great  Australian freedom,

'THE  RIGHT TO LEAVE'."
"If you  aren't happy here then LEAVE.  We didn't force you
to come here. You  asked to be here.  So accept the country YOU  accepted."
i'm in no way religious but i'll say this..  ahem.

+1
some_random_panda
Flamesuit essential
+454|6816

Kick out any form of extremism.  You cannot go to another country and live under your own laws.
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|7079
Both ways.  If people want to campaign through parliament for a change towards Sharia law, what's the beef?  That's what democracy is about, isn't it?  Essentially if people choose to adhere to another set of values without compromising the law then that's up to them.  If they do break the law then they risk the consequences, and Austrailians should know that better than anybody .  Saying people can't live by their own values whilst campaigning (albeit pointlessly) for change undermines democracy.
Pierre
I hunt criminals down for a living
+68|7101|Belgium

some_random_panda wrote:

Kick out any form of extremism.  You cannot go to another country and live under your own laws.
I concur.
RavyGravy
Son.
+617|6831|NSW, Australia

who the fuck voted yes?
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7142
Why the hell would they want to move to Australia if they wanted sharia laws.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
autopilot
banned
+115|6774

Sharia laws in AUS would be awsm!
RavyGravy
Son.
+617|6831|NSW, Australia

autopilot wrote:

Sharia laws in AUS would be awsm!
ima kill yo
some_random_panda
Flamesuit essential
+454|6816

autopilot wrote:

Sharia laws in AUS would be awsm!
OUT.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6987

OP wrote:

Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent
to Howard, hinted that some  radical clerics could be asked to leave the
country if they did not accept  that Australia was a secular state

........................................

"Most  Australians believe in God.  This is not some
Christian, right wing,  political push, but a fact, because Christian men
and women, on Christian  principles, founded this nation, and this is
clearly documented.  It is  certainly appropriate to display it on the
walls of our schools.  If  God offends you, then I suggest you consider
another part of the world as  your new home, because God is part of our 
culture."

.........................................

But once you are done complaining,  whining, and griping about......................Our Christian beliefs................I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great  Australian freedom,

'THE  RIGHT TO LEAVE'."
How am I the only person who noticed that?

I doubt that John Howard actually said it, but still...................
Mongoose
That 70's guy
+156|6956|Sydney, in 1978
If this awesome law gets past, Howard's popularity will skyrocket
RavyGravy
Son.
+617|6831|NSW, Australia

Mongoose wrote:

If this awesome law gets past, Howard's popularity will skyrocket
id tap that...
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6987

Mongoose wrote:

If this awesome law gets past,
What law?
smtt686
this is the best we can do?
+95|7057|USA
And now a quote from Theodore Roosevelt


"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6955|Global Command

Turquoise wrote:

If John Howard actually did this, then kudos to him.

Fuck Shari'a Law.  That's just a fancy phrase for oppression.
QFE
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|7091|NT, like Mick Dundee

Mmm... Didn't read the article posted by the OP as I'm not sure it's legit buuuut...

This is Australia. We don't live by Shari'a law. If you come to the country I live in, it is expected that you will respect our laws, culture and lifestyle. If you wish to emigrate, you are welcome to bring some of your culture along, as well as your religion but you can't bring a legal system with you. Don't like it? Fuck off.

This may sound ignorant and harsh to some, but really... Australia is not a Muslim country and it would not be a good idea to segregate the Muslims by letting a different set of laws apply to them, as that's discrimination. It would cause all manner of tension in the community. I also thought the idea of emigration was to live in a different country, not turn your new home into a clone of your old one.

As a side note: The idea of a separate/mixed legal system for the Aboriginals of remote communities has been proposed in the NT and WA I believe, as they don't understand our legal system and it seems to cause more harm than good by trying to enforce it on their communities.

EDIT

Changed a word...

Last edited by Flecco (2007-01-31 10:47:35)

Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6871|The Land of Scott Walker

Bubbalo wrote:

Sure.  At the same time, Johnnie can kick out his Christian extremist buddies (including Steve Fielding).
Pardon me, but the Christians I know vote if we advocate a change in law.  We vote for Representatives, Senators, and Presidents whom we agree with.  We have never suggested a separate geographical area where a different rule of law applies.
Ratzinger
Member
+43|6818|Wollongong, NSW, Australia

smtt686 wrote:

"Most  Australians believe in God.  This is not some
Christian, right wing,  political push, but a fact, because Christian men
and women, on Christian  principles, founded this nation, and this is
clearly documented.  It is  certainly appropriate to display it on the
walls of our schools.  If  God offends you, then I suggest you consider
another part of the world as  your new home, because God is part of our 
culture."
My ancesters were varied - 1 came as a soldier on the Second Fleet from England, and I have Aboriginal blood on my mother's side.

My family are not Christian, although some of my ma's family have a Jehovah's Witness thing, and I am a militant atheist.

Am I Australian, or not?

As has been noted about 65 billion times before in this forum, isn't democracy about the right to choose?
Howard is a reactionary racist bastard, and the sooner we vote the fucker out the better.
Ratzinger
Member
+43|6818|Wollongong, NSW, Australia

Stingray24 wrote:

We have never suggested a separate geographical area where a different rule of law applies.
*cough* UTAH *cough*
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7192|UK
I completely agree, if you dont live by your countries law get out, this has been increasingly enforced in the UK recently, like one eye, one hand dude got deported, or asked to leave or maybe jailed cant remember.

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