And what would it be if a commander is a 12 year old moron ?Barrakuda777 wrote:
Ok, heres a plausable solution. It will be somewhat unpopular but would induce more in terms of gameplay.
I think the problem in gameplay lies in the inherent fact that any spammed class is not conducive to balanced team loadouts (prime examples medics and snipers..), my proposed solution is one that has been used in many many other games and I would suggest Americas Army probably is the closest parallel that I would like to draw.
Squad Framework!!
How about having kit selection determined by your inclusion as part of a SQUAD (the single most teamwork centred element of the game), thus the numbers of certain classes is determined by "either" :
Squad leader on creation of the squad (e.g. Rounded, Fireteams, Special operations, Medic supported fireteam, sniper supported etc...)
Commander (creates the squads to suit THEIR tactics and allocates kit appropriate to the role - and thus makes this role as vital as it should be!!!)
MAP (selection of this by EA , by terrain, type of fighting and expected enemy loadouts).
Those who do not enter a squad are limited to assault class only with the medics m16 and NO GL.
The squad balance structure could effectively limit the "specialised" roles to a maximum number.
Commander and Squad leaders take a much more prominent role in the running of the battle.
Ranks and kit specialisation ACTUALLY MEAN SOMETHING!!!
Thank you very much... i will be here all week!
Kooda
Poll
Would kit balance improve if medics carried carbines?
| Yes | 47% | 47% - 57 | ||||
| No | 52% | 52% - 62 | ||||
| Total: 119 | ||||||
Incopetent commanders you can do nothing about? - Sounds like realism to me...
Seriously though, thats why there is a mutiny button and a commander score, and a rank, and awards for those that are good....
Though yes, i see what you mean. If commander got the power, i would suggest that only the squad leaders need to vote for him to be demoted.
Kooda
Seriously though, thats why there is a mutiny button and a commander score, and a rank, and awards for those that are good....
Though yes, i see what you mean. If commander got the power, i would suggest that only the squad leaders need to vote for him to be demoted.
Kooda
Last edited by Barrakuda777 (2007-01-11 04:02:29)
ok make medic guns bad, then nobody goes medic then you say goodbye to kill to death ratio and bitch about how there are no medics.
I've been thinking about what Barrakuda said. I think that would be actually a very good thing. To have the squad-leader assign kits to the members...it's more realistic too.
+1 for you Kooda
+1 for you Kooda
Last edited by Gilmourish (2007-01-11 04:37:29)
Def. yes. It's like in Enemy Territory. Good infantry player means good medic player. In infantry only the other kits are completely unnecessary, support included. Out of ammo? Pick ouy a dead enemy's kit.
All "wtfpwnage infantry video" out there are MEDIC video.
The assault kit is a joke. Same weapons, near to non-existent sprint. Body armor vs ability to heal himself? Please.
Smoke grenade and flashbangs? Please again.
So yes, giving them less powerful weapons (even smg's) is reasonable. Or make medics unable to heal themselves. Or set a limit to the number of medics per team.
Or alternatively, revamp the assault kit. Longer sprint, grenade launcher AND 4 regular grenades, possibility to use shotguns, anything. At this moment the assault kit is pointless.
All "wtfpwnage infantry video" out there are MEDIC video.
The assault kit is a joke. Same weapons, near to non-existent sprint. Body armor vs ability to heal himself? Please.
Smoke grenade and flashbangs? Please again.
So yes, giving them less powerful weapons (even smg's) is reasonable. Or make medics unable to heal themselves. Or set a limit to the number of medics per team.
Or alternatively, revamp the assault kit. Longer sprint, grenade launcher AND 4 regular grenades, possibility to use shotguns, anything. At this moment the assault kit is pointless.
JET_G raidensen wrote:
Flecco wrote:
Just bring the nade launcher back up to full strength. Without being able to fire it while in the air should get rid of the "noob toobing" problem. Assault was always meant to be the powerhouse infantry class. That and bring the smoke grenades up to scratch. Make them able to screen a street for 15 seconds.
The medic kit doesn't need nerfing. Assault just needs to be brought back up to strength.
This still wouldn't change the fact that medics can shred AT, engineer, sniper, spec OPs, or support at most ranges. Isn't that a little backwards?lord_tyler_486 wrote:
JET_G raidensen wrote:
Flecco wrote:
Just bring the nade launcher back up to full strength. Without being able to fire it while in the air should get rid of the "noob toobing" problem. Assault was always meant to be the powerhouse infantry class. That and bring the smoke grenades up to scratch. Make them able to screen a street for 15 seconds.
The medic kit doesn't need nerfing. Assault just needs to be brought back up to strength.
There isn't really an issue of assault being weak. Medics just might be a bit overpowered.
Last edited by Marinejuana (2007-01-11 05:18:49)
assault rifles: awsome stopping power but low accuracy at long ranges.
carbine: the exact opposite: awsome accuracy at long ranges and medium range. lower stoping power. everyone should know about " G36C sniping".
so it does not matter, i think the assault// medic combo in 2142 is more balanced in the case there is no more instant healing when you drop a medkit to heal yourself. BF2, drop a healing bag to fully heal your self, and kill 5 more people easily.. medics in bf2 are just too powerful and a big pain in the butt for snipers since a non head shot will reduce their health to 95%.
carbine: the exact opposite: awsome accuracy at long ranges and medium range. lower stoping power. everyone should know about " G36C sniping".
so it does not matter, i think the assault// medic combo in 2142 is more balanced in the case there is no more instant healing when you drop a medkit to heal yourself. BF2, drop a healing bag to fully heal your self, and kill 5 more people easily.. medics in bf2 are just too powerful and a big pain in the butt for snipers since a non head shot will reduce their health to 95%.
give medics smgs and problem solved
if medics get carbines im never playing this game again lol. check out my awsome carbine ownage .
I don't think that medics are over powered compaired to aussult ( Yes, Assult should have at least 2 smoke granades and the nade launcher was nerfed too much), but the real problem is that AT/spec Ops & maybe enginer. Spec Ops just needs a bit more power full gun. AT needs granades in IO and better gun generaly. Enginer is a good class but in IO the mines need to be replaced with something useful.
give medics a Bar with a mahoosive recoil
I'd have to agree with you on this one. However, I would say to add something else to Assault. Just a smoke grenade and grenade launcher seems kind of a weak choice when you could also get infinite health, defibrillators, and hand grenades. Especially since the splash damage on grenade launchers are so small. I think Assault should get something like double the body armor, just to keep the kit in the game. Or they could finally bring the toys from SF to BF2 and just give a grappling hook and zip line to the assault guys, and nobody else. Assault does almost seem like a pointless class when you get the choice of being medic...Omnideath wrote:
The original outlook was apparently not to make medics less powerful, but rather have their assault class counterpart more powerful by equipping them with grenade launchers. Since those were basically nerfed in one of the patches the medic class has become much more favorable. I think it would make gameplay more interesting in medics were given shorter ranged weapons, however I'm sure the kit would still be a top choice for many players. As you can see in 2142 the two classes were simply merged (most likely due to their similarity in BF2) resulting in a powerhouse class (assault rifle + infinite health). I don't think the kits are really imbalanced as are, I just think that the medic and assault kits are too similar (not necessarily imbalanced). I think they should be merged, or the assault class dropped entirely.
no.
Nope, I have no problem taking medics out as any class and the medic should be able to beat the shit out of everybody BUT assault.Marinejuana wrote:
This still wouldn't change the fact that medics can shred AT, engineer, sniper, spec OPs, or support at most ranges. Isn't that a little backwards?lord_tyler_486 wrote:
JET_G raidensen wrote:
There isn't really an issue of assault being weak. Medics just might be a bit overpowered.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
JET_G raidensen wrote:
Flecco wrote:
Just bring the nade launcher back up to full strength. Without being able to fire it while in the air should get rid of the "noob toobing" problem. Assault was always meant to be the powerhouse infantry class. That and bring the smoke grenades up to scratch. Make them able to screen a street for 15 seconds.
The medic kit doesn't need nerfing. Assault just needs to be brought back up to strength.
Problem with squad specialization is that the newbie players will be relegated to the "fodder" roles. The high ranks will always get the "best" classes. Happening now though. Newbie assault goes in and gets killed. Experienced medic cleans up the mess afterwards.Barrakuda777 wrote:
Ok, heres a plausable solution. It will be somewhat unpopular but would induce more in terms of gameplay.
I think the problem in gameplay lies in the inherent fact that any spammed class is not conducive to balanced team loadouts (prime examples medics and snipers..), my proposed solution is one that has been used in many many other games and I would suggest Americas Army probably is the closest parallel that I would like to draw.
Squad Framework!!
Last edited by Ilocano (2007-01-11 13:14:23)
medics should have pistols, they are medics for gods sake they dont get an assault riffle.
shouldnt even get a weapon!
medic whores only need a medipack, shock paddles, strike at karkand and infantry only and they are sorted!
medic whores only need a medipack, shock paddles, strike at karkand and infantry only and they are sorted!
there again, IT IS NOT OVERPOWERED, it's your game mode that is.SmackDowN wrote:
Well before there wasn't an infantry only mode, kits were balanced, cause a medic isn't worth shit when facing a vehicule... You wanted an infantry only mode, take what comes with it.
No, it wouldnt. If you have a player in a squad who has only ever played medic and assault, hows he gona feel if hes landed as support?Gilmourish wrote:
I've been thinking about what Barrakuda said. I think that would be actually a very good thing. To have the squad-leader assign kits to the members...it's more realistic too.
Not everyone in the game plays every kit. I use that as an example since I hate the support class. Id prefer to play as a sniper than as support. If I was landed with that in the only squad on an 8man server, then I would end up being a 1man squad to counter that.
Brilliant.
Personally, I think medics are fine as they are. Assault still have body armour, assault rifles and have the best assault rifle unlock, the G3. The 2 classes are fairly balanced imo.
However, although I really like assault, especially with the G3, I think it needs boosting a lil, i.e. a proper nade launcher again. And more than 1 smoke nade. You get 3 flashbangs in SF, yet only 1 smoke nade on vanilla?? Hmmm...
I think the main problem is body armor. I can't figure out why engineers weren't given armor, but the rest (medic, sniper, and spec ops) make sense for one reason or another.
Here's my point. Assault and medic are damn near the same, but medic can heal himself so it seems unfair. The differences between the kit is medic gets nades versus assaults GL. Assault has body armor, medic has the med kit. Assault has smoke/FB versus medic shock paddles. Well if you can use the flash bangs/smoke effectively (especially the FB) that can be an extremely effective weapon so I would say that's as valuable as the paddles (in different ways of course.) So I think if you take out the body armor and the med kit than the classes are very evenly stacked. (I think the nerf on the noob tube was a good idea, but not to the extent that it was nerfed)
This is where the problem comes in. The med pack gives an advantage but if assault had effective body armor than it would equalize the med pack. The problem is that the body armor is almost non-existant. Seriously, I die just as quickly when people shoot me whether I'm medic or assault. Of course, the difference is that if I'm a medic and I squeez through a fire fight with half a bar of health left, I can fix that pretty quick. But if I'm assault I honestly don't ever notice that there's less damage.
So, my proposal:
Leave the guns alone, don't mess with the nades/GL (everyone's used to it now), just make the damn body armor worth having. Show a more noticeble difference when taking damage.
An idea:
Get on a server with three people. One person goes assault, one medic, and the third person can be any class. Take turns shooting the medic and assault in the chest, legs, arms, etc. Record the damage taken by the medic from each hit compared to damage taken for shots in the same body part for the assault. See just how effective (or ineffective) the body armor is. I have not done this so I don't know for sure, but it could be interesting.
Here's my point. Assault and medic are damn near the same, but medic can heal himself so it seems unfair. The differences between the kit is medic gets nades versus assaults GL. Assault has body armor, medic has the med kit. Assault has smoke/FB versus medic shock paddles. Well if you can use the flash bangs/smoke effectively (especially the FB) that can be an extremely effective weapon so I would say that's as valuable as the paddles (in different ways of course.) So I think if you take out the body armor and the med kit than the classes are very evenly stacked. (I think the nerf on the noob tube was a good idea, but not to the extent that it was nerfed)
This is where the problem comes in. The med pack gives an advantage but if assault had effective body armor than it would equalize the med pack. The problem is that the body armor is almost non-existant. Seriously, I die just as quickly when people shoot me whether I'm medic or assault. Of course, the difference is that if I'm a medic and I squeez through a fire fight with half a bar of health left, I can fix that pretty quick. But if I'm assault I honestly don't ever notice that there's less damage.
So, my proposal:
Leave the guns alone, don't mess with the nades/GL (everyone's used to it now), just make the damn body armor worth having. Show a more noticeble difference when taking damage.
An idea:
Get on a server with three people. One person goes assault, one medic, and the third person can be any class. Take turns shooting the medic and assault in the chest, legs, arms, etc. Record the damage taken by the medic from each hit compared to damage taken for shots in the same body part for the assault. See just how effective (or ineffective) the body armor is. I have not done this so I don't know for sure, but it could be interesting.
It`s just the player who makes the strenght not the class or weapon.
Bullet whore, not assault whore.ShoopDaWhoop wrote:
see "DevineMomentOfTruth"Cheez wrote:
When have you ever heard someone being called an 'Assault Whore'?
100,000 kills with assault.
No, medics should not be given carbines, because they do not work the same in-game as in the real world. In-game, they are more accurate and better at range. They should be less accurate, but give you better agility, to wit, less stance delays and faster sprint.
Assault rifles should slow you down, but give you higher accuracy and possibly higher damage and/or lower deviation due to heavier barrel.
Grenade launcher should be as lethal as a normal grenade, with an option for a timed shot with the mode select (the thing that toggles semi/full auto). Plink plink kablam.
The G3 should be suited to a support sniper role, ala the role the Dragunov was originally made for in russia; extending the squad's range, dealing with snipers, etc.
Medics should have a regular rifle so they can contribute to firepower in firefights, but lessen the losses through being medics.
Ok, one more radical idea, again pinched from another game, that again emphasises squad play specifically placing more of a key role on squad leaders (also lends itself to more intense fire fights...)
Medic shock paddles now no longer REVIVE a friendly, they simply save the teams ticket.
Medics can no longer restore 100% health. They can stop bleeding and recover 30% of health by directly healing a friendly (selects medpack, and pushes use )(30% is an arbitrary number)
The respawn timer is greatly reduced
This works in several ways. Squad leader is now VITAL to a continued push in the face of enemy resistance as there is now no way a squad can take death after death and continue a push with constant revives. Squad leaders become a startegic objective for an enemy team to take out and releave them from an offensive.
Bleeding introduced - beeding is simply a way of reflecting the fact that being shot really really hurts and that if untreated the bleeding will kill you! Bleed is a constant rate of health loss, solved by visiting a friendly medic. For balance sake lets say bleed is at 1 bar of health every 20 seconds. This makes support cover fire a bit more dangerous, and will probably make alot more kills mutual (think the pistol reload of the sergent in saving private ryan - at the end...). This ensures medics are as vital to a team win as they are presently and places more emphasis on their squad support role, better emphasised by them having only 1 grenade as well.
All other roles have grenade cap reduced to 1 except assault (increase to GL and 2 grenades) and support which gets an M79 (grenade launcher)
The reduction in spawn time helps make battle very hard once teams of equal numbers meet (basically the side with better teamwork or numbers prevails). Good medics help the team by "treating" dead friendlies, reducing the death counter to 0 and spawning them back in on their squad leader to lend their fire back into the fray.
Just another idea thats never gonna happen, but would make it intresting...
Kooda
Medic shock paddles now no longer REVIVE a friendly, they simply save the teams ticket.
Medics can no longer restore 100% health. They can stop bleeding and recover 30% of health by directly healing a friendly (selects medpack, and pushes use )(30% is an arbitrary number)
The respawn timer is greatly reduced
This works in several ways. Squad leader is now VITAL to a continued push in the face of enemy resistance as there is now no way a squad can take death after death and continue a push with constant revives. Squad leaders become a startegic objective for an enemy team to take out and releave them from an offensive.
Bleeding introduced - beeding is simply a way of reflecting the fact that being shot really really hurts and that if untreated the bleeding will kill you! Bleed is a constant rate of health loss, solved by visiting a friendly medic. For balance sake lets say bleed is at 1 bar of health every 20 seconds. This makes support cover fire a bit more dangerous, and will probably make alot more kills mutual (think the pistol reload of the sergent in saving private ryan - at the end...). This ensures medics are as vital to a team win as they are presently and places more emphasis on their squad support role, better emphasised by them having only 1 grenade as well.
All other roles have grenade cap reduced to 1 except assault (increase to GL and 2 grenades) and support which gets an M79 (grenade launcher)
The reduction in spawn time helps make battle very hard once teams of equal numbers meet (basically the side with better teamwork or numbers prevails). Good medics help the team by "treating" dead friendlies, reducing the death counter to 0 and spawning them back in on their squad leader to lend their fire back into the fray.
Just another idea thats never gonna happen, but would make it intresting...
Kooda
The medic is fine. Only way I could see to balance it would be to make revies count for 1 point instead of 2. But then less medic whores which means my K goes back under 1.00.