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2007-01-07 20:54:56
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6830|North Carolina
I've already expressed a few things regarding this topic, as have many of the rest of you.  It's a pretty hot button issue here in America.

Cutting to the chase, How would you deal with the illegal immigration problem, if you were president?

My answer is probably going to surprise most of you, but the research I've done suggests an action that is very unexpected...

Make the border easier to cross for actual laborers.  The real problem with border security isn't people looking for work, but drug cartels.  If we focused our law enforcement efforts on ending the drug trade at the border and the MS 13 activity, then we'd solve most of the problems.  We need to force the hand of the Mexican government into helping us with this endeavor by slapping heavy tariffs on all Mexican goods, until they comply with drug law enforcement and other police actions against the MS 13 gangs.

As for the laborers, their cheap labor helps our economy, and if they are safe to cross the border, then they won't stay here in the offseason.  This means they will be less of a burden on our infrastructure.  By making the border more dangerous to cross, most illegals now stay here after sneaking in.

Instead, we need to implement the guest worker program and make it easier for these people to go back to their families when their usually seasonal work ends.  If this happens for long enough, Mexico won't be so damn poor and desperate, and the issue will cease to exist.

It would also be nice if we could encourage the use of contraceptives among the Mexicans, since their birth rate is alarmingly high.  They really need to cut down on that some, because it's much harder for a large poor family to move up in prosperity than a small one.
2007-01-07 21:02:57
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6870|The Land of Scott Walker
All excellent ideas, Turquoise.  I'm just not sure the situation will end up as we hope even if we implement your suggestions.  My biggest question is will the guest workers really go back when their work ends?
2007-01-07 21:05:28
SealXo
Member
+309|6961
Or put up a big fence and a neutral minefield with a few tower outposts every few miles. and 100% solved
2007-01-07 21:07:46
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6870|The Land of Scott Walker
That would also work, not sure how much green that would cost, though.
2007-01-07 21:13:16
SealXo
Member
+309|6961

Stingray24 wrote:

That would also work, not sure how much green that would cost, though.
Take  abig wire in a metal tube and connect it secretly to mexicos earest plant (: hah
2007-01-07 21:13:37
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6830|North Carolina
Well, the biggest misconception about illegals is that they desire U.S. citizenship.  This is a very recent development that was actually created mostly by tightening border security.

In the 90s, border security was rarely touched upon, but things like NAFTA contributed to an increase in illegal immigration.  Instead of the giant "sucking sound" of American jobs moving to Mexico that Perot predicted, we had more of a giant "blowing sound" of Mexicans moving here for work.  Instead of exporting jobs, we just imported labor.

During that time, the border was easy to cross.  Most illegals joined construction crews, landscaping businesses, and cleaning services.  As more Mexicans came, they started to enter other lines of work.  Nevertheless, the vast majority of illegal work is seasonal.  Construction, landscaping, and agricultural are the primary employment sectors of illegal labor here.

So yes, these illegals in those 3 sectors will most likely go back to their families in the offseason.  The citizenship agenda came about as a result of the border being harder to cross now.  If we made things more like the 90s with regards to the border, then most of them would want to go back to their families with the money they've made.

The vast majority of illegals are young men.  Some of them have wives and children still in Mexico, so they go back to see them when they get a chance to sneak back.

As for the ones who don't go back, this will be less of an issue if they are guest workers, because they will be paying taxes into the system.  The issue right now is that there is no tax revenue from these workers.

Last edited by Turquoise (2007-01-07 21:15:21)

2007-01-07 21:15:55
SealXo
Member
+309|6961

Turquoise wrote:

Well, the biggest misconception about illegals is that they desire U.S. citizenship.  This is a very recent development that was actually created mostly by tightening border security.

In the 90s, border security was rarely touched upon, but things like NAFTA contributed to an increase in illegal immigration.  Instead of the giant "sucking sound" of American jobs moving to Mexico that Perot predicted, we had more of a giant "blowing sound" of Mexicans moving here for work.  Instead of exporting jobs, we just imported labor.

During that time, the border was easy to cross.  Most illegals joined construction crews, landscaping businesses, and cleaning services.  As more Mexicans came, they started to enter other lines of work.  Nevertheless, the vast majority of illegal work is seasonal.  Construction, landscaping, and agricultural are the primary employment sectors of illegal labor here.

So yes, these illegals in those 3 sectors will most likely go back to their families in the offseason.  The citizenship agenda came about as a result of the border being harder to cross now.  If we made things more like the 90s with regards to the border, then most of these would want to go back to their families with the money they've made.

The vast majority of illegals are young men.  Some of them have wives and children still in Mexico, so they go back to see them when they get a chance to sneak back.

As for the ones who don't go back, this will be less of an issue if they are guest workers, because they will be paying taxes into the system.  The issue right now is that there is no tax revenue from these workers.
I honestly don't care why they cross, im just scared shitless that im goign to be driving my dads AMG one day and then i get ran into by a immigrant without a license.

thats 95 grand in the shitter.

My grandpa was dricing his 57 bel air and it almost got hit by a mex who 95% didnt have insurance going through santa ana.

This cars worth 250 grand and is origional pfect condition with 180 origional miles here.

Last edited by SealXo (2007-01-07 21:17:30)

2007-01-07 21:18:27
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6830|North Carolina

SealXo wrote:

Or put up a big fence and a neutral minefield with a few tower outposts every few miles. and 100% solved
As Carlos Mencia put it...  Who would build the wall?  Mexicans...  lol

Trust me -- a wall is prohibitively expensive.  It would make Iraq's reconstruction look cheap by comparison.
2007-01-07 21:23:40
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6830|North Carolina

SealXo wrote:

I honestly don't care why they cross, im just scared shitless that im goign to be driving my dads AMG one day and then i get ran into by a immigrant without a license.

thats 95 grand in the shitter.

My grandpa was dricing his 57 bel air and it almost got hit by a mex who 95% didnt have insurance going through santa ana.

This cars worth 250 grand and is origional pfect condition with 180 origional miles here.
It sounds to me like you live in the wrong place to be so well off.  I'd move north.

Still, I know what you mean.  The way we should deal with uninsured illegal drivers is quite a different story.

We need to take a more conservative approach to that issue.  We must subject all people who drive in America to the same minimum insurance rules in the state where they are applicable.

Otherwise, the company employing the illegal should pay the bill.
2007-01-07 21:31:18
Cheez
Herman is a warmaphrodite
+1,027|6864|King Of The Islands

Become an island. Australia has very little illegal immigrants, and those that do reach our shores are stuffed in a prison in the middle of the desert (but they get free accommodation, food, cigarettes, money and don't need to work, so its not all bad)
My state was founded by Batman. Your opinion is invalid.
2007-01-07 21:31:42
SealXo
Member
+309|6961

Turquoise wrote:

SealXo wrote:

I honestly don't care why they cross, im just scared shitless that im goign to be driving my dads AMG one day and then i get ran into by a immigrant without a license.

thats 95 grand in the shitter.

My grandpa was dricing his 57 bel air and it almost got hit by a mex who 95% didnt have insurance going through santa ana.

This cars worth 250 grand and is origional pfect condition with 180 origional miles here.
It sounds to me like you live in the wrong place to be so well off.  I'd move north.

Still, I know what you mean.  The way we should deal with uninsured illegal drivers is quite a different story.

We need to take a more conservative approach to that issue.  We must subject all people who drive in America to the same minimum insurance rules in the state where they are applicable.

Otherwise, the company employing the illegal should pay the bill.
There not employed at all, I live down south from SA but the garage is up there.

Want to ehar a story?

When my pops was in his early 20's he lived there, driving his moms Cadillac, new and beautiful.
So soem fucker sideswipes him, HARD. it was bad, so he goes into a pep boys, calls a cop. Guess what? The cops mexican.

He talks to teh guy in spanish, after 5 minutes he lets the guy walk.

He tells my dad its not his problem..

My dads insurance went up 700 bucks.
2007-01-07 21:33:17
golgoj4
Member
+51|7199|North Hollywood
clamp down on business. HARD. like probation era hard. if there is no work, they don't come here. But business has all the money to lobby, and if they cant buy you, they will buy the next guy....
2007-01-07 21:35:10
golgoj4
Member
+51|7199|North Hollywood

Turquoise wrote:

SealXo wrote:

Or put up a big fence and a neutral minefield with a few tower outposts every few miles. and 100% solved
As Carlos Mencia put it...  Who would build the wall?  Mexicans...  lol

Trust me -- a wall is prohibitively expensive.  It would make Iraq's reconstruction look cheap by comparison.
Its only expensive because people have an interest in prolonging it. If iraq gets fixed, a lotta people no longer get paid.
2007-01-07 21:35:49
SmackDowN
Member
+5|6895
contraceptives? how do u expect a country grow in prosperity with only old people? note that every prosper contry was once full of big families, thats one of the main reason of their prosperity.
2007-01-07 21:37:13
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6830|North Carolina

SealXo wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

SealXo wrote:

I honestly don't care why they cross, im just scared shitless that im goign to be driving my dads AMG one day and then i get ran into by a immigrant without a license.

thats 95 grand in the shitter.

My grandpa was dricing his 57 bel air and it almost got hit by a mex who 95% didnt have insurance going through santa ana.

This cars worth 250 grand and is origional pfect condition with 180 origional miles here.
It sounds to me like you live in the wrong place to be so well off.  I'd move north.

Still, I know what you mean.  The way we should deal with uninsured illegal drivers is quite a different story.

We need to take a more conservative approach to that issue.  We must subject all people who drive in America to the same minimum insurance rules in the state where they are applicable.

Otherwise, the company employing the illegal should pay the bill.
There not employed at all, I live down south from SA but the garage is up there.

Want to ehar a story?

When my pops was in his early 20's he lived there, driving his moms Cadillac, new and beautiful.
So soem fucker sideswipes him, HARD. it was bad, so he goes into a pep boys, calls a cop. Guess what? The cops mexican.

He talks to teh guy in spanish, after 5 minutes he lets the guy walk.

He tells my dad its not his problem..

My dads insurance went up 700 bucks.
Whoa...  Sorry to hear that.  I'm glad I don't live in Texas.

But still, once this guest worker system gets moving, it will be easy to pick out the employed from the unemployed.  Guest workers will have some kind of paper trail that implies liability.  If an accident occurs, the immigrant is searched for verification of citizenship or guest worker status.  If the person has neither and has no insurance, then the car should be impounded, and the illegal should be shipped off to some island in the Pacific.

And yes, I'm serious about the Pacific Island bit.  I'm all for coming up with a more progressive system to deal with illegal immigration, but I think we should get medieval on people that abuse this new system, in order to make a point.
2007-01-07 21:37:35
splixx
ChupaCABRA
+53|7164|Omaha, Nebraska
Easiest solution:

You give the people hiring illegals 5 years in prison and a HIGH fine. Let's see how many jobs would be available to them after that was implemented.
2007-01-07 21:37:43
SealXo
Member
+309|6961
Mexico has huge families, it got them far..... /sarcasm
2007-01-07 21:39:06
SealXo
Member
+309|6961
Oh and ps, in no way do i think they should have some armband or something stupid like that incase your thinking im some radical.
2007-01-07 21:39:41
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6830|North Carolina

golgoj4 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

SealXo wrote:

Or put up a big fence and a neutral minefield with a few tower outposts every few miles. and 100% solved
As Carlos Mencia put it...  Who would build the wall?  Mexicans...  lol

Trust me -- a wall is prohibitively expensive.  It would make Iraq's reconstruction look cheap by comparison.
Its only expensive because people have an interest in prolonging it. If iraq gets fixed, a lotta people no longer get paid.
In a way, that's true, but I don't think Halliburton is destroying its own facilities.  For the most part, extremists are prolonging the Iraq reconstruction by destroying the shit we build and by killing our security forces.

Companies are taking advantage of Iraq by overcharging the government.  That's their technique of skimming the top, so to speak.
2007-01-07 21:41:59
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6830|North Carolina

SmackDowN wrote:

contraceptives? how do u expect a country grow in prosperity with only old people? note that every prosper contry was once full of big families, thats one of the main reason of their prosperity.
Youth does aid in industrialization, but Mexico is growing far too fast in population for its own good.  This is one of the main reasons why the labor market is so flooded that people are looking for work here.
2007-01-07 21:42:01
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6819|The Gem Saloon
turquoise, can i have your opinion on what the impact is on the economy due to illegals?
both now and if they were somehow taken out of the US.
i have conflicting views and was interested what other people thought of it.........
2007-01-07 21:44:26
golgoj4
Member
+51|7199|North Hollywood

SealXo wrote:

Oh and ps, in no way do i think they should have some armband or something stupid like that incase your thinking im some radical.
i am that radical. It seems that this country has become a joke on many levels. It would be nice if the smart people took control and got us on the right track again. Dont get me wrong, nothing is ever perfect. But the so far sucessful plan to screw the middle class and create a poor and rich system is something I see as a greater threat to all of us. Everyone isnt a rocket scientist. They need menial jobs. If we just import the labor, what happens to those AMERICANS who find an ever shrinking margin in their daily lives because they have to be an exec to get by.

I know it sounds alarmist, but I see the shrinking benefits and the desire to screw the workers on levels not seen since the industrial revolution happened around of the turn of the 19th century.

call me crazy...
2007-01-07 21:45:38
SealXo
Member
+309|6961

golgoj4 wrote:

SealXo wrote:

Oh and ps, in no way do i think they should have some armband or something stupid like that incase your thinking im some radical.
i am that radical. It seems that this country has become a joke on many levels. It would be nice if the smart people took control and got us on the right track again. Dont get me wrong, nothing is ever perfect. But the so far sucessful plan to screw the middle class and create a poor and rich system is something I see as a greater threat to all of us. Everyone isnt a rocket scientist. They need menial jobs. If we just import the labor, what happens to those AMERICANS who find an ever shrinking margin in their daily lives because they have to be an exec to get by.

I know it sounds alarmist, but I see the shrinking benefits and the desire to screw the workers on levels not seen since the industrial revolution happened around of the turn of the 19th century.

call me crazy...
I agree with the last part.



It reminds me of the south park "they took our jobs" I totally agree with that
2007-01-07 21:45:39
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6830|North Carolina

splixx wrote:

Easiest solution:

You give the people hiring illegals 5 years in prison and a HIGH fine. Let's see how many jobs would be available to them after that was implemented.
That would probably work as well as my plan, but I doubt many Congressmen would support it.  Big business is far too big of an interest group for them to risk pissing off.
2007-01-07 21:46:18
golgoj4
Member
+51|7199|North Hollywood

Turquoise wrote:

golgoj4 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:


As Carlos Mencia put it...  Who would build the wall?  Mexicans...  lol

Trust me -- a wall is prohibitively expensive.  It would make Iraq's reconstruction look cheap by comparison.
Its only expensive because people have an interest in prolonging it. If iraq gets fixed, a lotta people no longer get paid.
In a way, that's true, but I don't think Halliburton is destroying its own facilities.  For the most part, extremists are prolonging the Iraq reconstruction by destroying the shit we build and by killing our security forces.

Companies are taking advantage of Iraq by overcharging the government.  That's their technique of skimming the top, so to speak.
I realize that. What I meant to say is they KNOW whats gonna happen. Thats my point. the whole effed up iraqi situation is an overall win for their pocketbook...unless you happen to be the contractor driving the truck when its ambushed...

 

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