BF2S Forums Bush quietly claims right to open Americans' mail

lowing wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

lowing wrote:

Same things happened when the US was at war with Germany.............We are at WAR!........If people are so fucked up that they think sacrifices and belt tightening isn't going to happen, they are nuts.

During WW2 we had a lot more freedoms and liberties taken away for the war effort. This liberal pussy generation has not had one inconvenience taken away from them in the past 4 years, short of longer lines at the airports. 60 years ago, mail was censored, people were spied on, products were rationed, curfews were enforced. Stop with the America is falling apart shit already.

you are not seriously comparing World War II with the War on Terror, are you ?

Deny that what I said is true.

Our country was attacked. Our soldiers are fighting and dieing in a foreign land. There are groups of people that have been an d our continuing to plan attacks against the US and its civilians. Yeah we are at war.

Marconious would have you believe that you need to check your toothpaste for secret microphones and goons in your closet, instead of focusing on those that are actively trying to destroy us.

WWII was a war between nations. All parties wore uniforms, flew flags, and fought for territory. And when it was all over, the losers did raise the white flag, and accepted defeat.

09/11, on the other hand, was a terrorist attack. A criminal act, if you will. It was well-planned and executed, sure, but it was not an attack with the intent to invade, much less conquer the US. Terrorists are not fighting for territory or for the protection of their nation. They wear no uniforms, fly no flags and don't fight from fixed territory. They fight an ideological battle, a battle of ideas.
Does anyone here seriously believe that the War on Terror can be won, or even ended ? WWII ended when the Axis powers raised the white flag and accepted defeat.
So I ask you, who is going to raise a white flag in the war on terror ? What are you going to do to make that happen ? Your enemy doesn't have a standing army to defeat, no capital to take, no country to conquer.
Hell, you cannot even identify your enemy properly. And for every "terrorist" you kill in Iraq or Afghanistan, two more come up.
Maybe you are not losing this war, but you sure as hell are not winning either. It cannot be won. Right now, I'd say it is a stalemate at best. I have said it before, all you do is exchange body bags for little to no considerable gain.

I have heard Americans ( including GWB, I believe ) say that you are fighting in Iraq so that you don't have to fight the terrorists at home. Please forgive me but...WTF!?!?

Just yesterday, I watched the latest death toll on CNN. Since the war broke out in 2003, over 3,000 US troops have been killed, and over 22,000 wounded in battle ( 11,000 of which will never return to service ).
That means you have now sacrificed nearly as much Americans as were killed on 09/11.
For what, I ask you ? What have you achieved ? Do you think there is now less terrorist activity ?

Sure ( and here is another prime argument that some like to throw into the mix ), since the war broke out, there have been no terrorist attacks on US soil by Al'Quaida. But guess what, they don't have to. Thousands of US citizens are running around in ME shitholes, and those are much easier targets.
Sure, 09/11 was huge, but it also took years of careful planning and was a big logistical challenge for Al'Quaida. And it could probably have been prevented with proper intelligence and a little more aviation safety.

Right now though, you are playing right into the terrorists' hands. Killing US citizens now has become nearly an effortless job for Al'Quaida and its followers. An IED, a sniper, a car bomb. Real easy compared to what was necessary to make 09/11 happen. And while their efforts are now minimal, you are headed for the biggest deficit in American history. Trillions of dollars down the drain, for what ?

Again, this is an ideological battle. The terrorists want to scare you, they want to force you to give up the rights and freedoms which you hold so dearly. And guess what ? They are winning.
Patriot Act, warrantless eavesdropping, warrantless scanning of private mail, tens of thousands of troops committed overseas, trillions of dollars.

How much more are you willing to sacrifice in this war ? And what good is supposed to come from it ?

Just imagine you had invested all that money into real counter-terrorism, intelligence, schools, health care, law enforcement, aviation security. Don't you think your country would be much better off today ? And safer, too ?

People tell me that a soldier's life is expendable. They fight, so others don't have to. And while that may be true in theory, it is a sad reality that soldiers are Americans, too. Just like those killed on 09/11, the have mums and dads, brothers and sisters, sons and daughters.

You own government is sacrificing American lifes in a war that cannot be won. Your strategy is failing, and you are giving up core American values in the process.

Raise the white flag, and accept defeat. Rethink your strategy and get your country back on track.

B.Schuss wrote:

lowing wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

you are not seriously comparing World War II with the War on Terror, are you ?

Deny that what I said is true.

Our country was attacked. Our soldiers are fighting and dieing in a foreign land. There are groups of people that have been an d our continuing to plan attacks against the US and its civilians. Yeah we are at war.

Marconious would have you believe that you need to check your toothpaste for secret microphones and goons in your closet, instead of focusing on those that are actively trying to destroy us.

WWII was a war between nations. All parties wore uniforms, flew flags, and fought for territory. And when it was all over, the losers did raise the white flag, and accepted defeat.

09/11, on the other hand, was a terrorist attack. A criminal act, if you will. It was well-planned and executed, sure, but it was not an attack with the intent to invade, much less conquer the US. Terrorists are not fighting for territory or for the protection of their nation. They wear no uniforms, fly no flags and don't fight from fixed territory. They fight an ideological battle, a battle of ideas.
Does anyone here seriously believe that the War on Terror can be won, or even ended ? WWII ended when the Axis powers raised the white flag and accepted defeat.
So I ask you, who is going to raise a white flag in the war on terror ? What are you going to do to make that happen ? Your enemy doesn't have a standing army to defeat, no capital to take, no country to conquer.
Hell, you cannot even identify your enemy properly. And for every "terrorist" you kill in Iraq or Afghanistan, two more come up.
Maybe you are not losing this war, but you sure as hell are not winning either. It cannot be won. Right now, I'd say it is a stalemate at best. I have said it before, all you do is exchange body bags for little to no considerable gain.

I have heard Americans ( including GWB, I believe ) say that you are fighting in Iraq so that you don't have to fight the terrorists at home. Please forgive me but...WTF!?!?

Just yesterday, I watched the latest death toll on CNN. Since the war broke out in 2003, over 3,000 US troops have been killed, and over 22,000 wounded in battle ( 11,000 of which will never return to service ).
That means you have now sacrificed nearly as much Americans as were killed on 09/11.
For what, I ask you ? What have you achieved ? Do you think there is now less terrorist activity ?

Sure ( and here is another prime argument that some like to throw into the mix ), since the war broke out, there have been no terrorist attacks on US soil by Al'Quaida. But guess what, they don't have to. Thousands of US citizens are running around in ME shitholes, and those are much easier targets.
Sure, 09/11 was huge, but it also took years of careful planning and was a big logistical challenge for Al'Quaida. And it could probably have been prevented with proper intelligence and a little more aviation safety.

Right now though, you are playing right into the terrorists' hands. Killing US citizens now has become nearly an effortless job for Al'Quaida and its followers. An IED, a sniper, a car bomb. Real easy compared to what was necessary to make 09/11 happen. And while their efforts are now minimal, you are headed for the biggest deficit in American history. Trillions of dollars down the drain, for what ?

Again, this is an ideological battle. The terrorists want to scare you, they want to force you to give up the rights and freedoms which you hold so dearly. And guess what ? They are winning.
Patriot Act, warrantless eavesdropping, warrantless scanning of private mail, tens of thousands of troops committed overseas, trillions of dollars.

How much more are you willing to sacrifice in this war ? And what good is supposed to come from it ?

Just imagine you had invested all that money into real counter-terrorism, intelligence, schools, health care, law enforcement, aviation security. Don't you think your country would be much better off today ? And safer, too ?

People tell me that a soldier's life is expendable. They fight, so others don't have to. And while that may be true in theory, it is a sad reality that soldiers are Americans, too. Just like those killed on 09/11, the have mums and dads, brothers and sisters, sons and daughters.

You own government is sacrificing American lifes in a war that cannot be won. Your strategy is failing, and you are giving up core American values in the process.

Raise the white flag, and accept defeat. Rethink your strategy and get your country back on track.

good post, but I gotta disagree on most of it.

This war is just and this war can be won.

Terrorism has been happening around the world for several decades now. NOT fighting them wasn't working, so how about we try fighting them for a change?

It isn't fear that has made the terrorists win anything. If they are winning, it is because attitudes like yours that ring the surrender bell. "Why fight them, you CAN NOT beat them"? What do you think the terrorists are laughing at, your "surrender, defeatist, appeasement, apologist", behavior toward them or the, "No way will we stand for that bullshit any longer", attitude? Which attitude do you think the terrorists want to deal with?

The problem is, hardly any other country is willing to stand up and fight these animals. This war can be won by the free world combining MONEY, effort, intel, forces, and commitment to making sure no terrorists have a safe house to operate from, or financing to operate with.

We are being told we can not win this war. By our selves probably not. As long as people like you keep the fight in the terrorist alive by your white flag waving, appeasement mentality. We will not win. Like WW2, one country alone could not have defeated the axis. Together, they were wiped out. TOGETHER, terrorism can be curtailed if not wiped out. For decades terrorists have had free reign in the world with no repercussions for their actions. YOUR method of appeasement did not work. SO now we fight, and all you want to do is, keep waving the white flag and hope the terrorists won't hurt you, instead of MAKING them not hurt you. My question to you is........WHY? Why do you refuse to stand up for your selves? Why do you refuse to do anything about these acts? Your appeasement of the past did not work, what makes you think it will now?

Iraq was not about terrorism it was about the Gulf War. It only became about terrorism after Saddam was defeated, and it became clear that there was about to be stability, peace and democracy, established in that country. So the terrorists flocked in to make sure none of the above happened, and all you can do is laugh at the US, criticize the US and curse the US. The country that is trying to rebuild Iraq, you hate, and say nothing about the terrorists that are fighting AGAINST the process of restoring stability and peace to this country. Then we have people like you and Cameronpoe, Marconious and the rest of the liberal think tank on here actually applauding our short comings and even our perceived failure. If this war can not be won, it is no wonder.

A united free world, is the only way to win this war. I admit the US is doomed if it fights this war alone, but I am proud of my country for at least fighting on the right side of it. How bout you?

B.Schuss wrote:

lowing wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

WWII was a war between nations. All parties wore uniforms, flew flags, and fought for territory. And when it was all over, the losers did raise the white flag, and accepted defeat.

09/11, on the other hand, was a terrorist attack. A criminal act, if you will. It was well-planned and executed, sure, but it was not an attack with the intent to invade, much less conquer the US. Terrorists are not fighting for territory or for the protection of their nation. They wear no uniforms, fly no flags and don't fight from fixed territory. They fight an ideological battle, a battle of ideas.
Does anyone here seriously believe that the War on Terror can be won, or even ended ? WWII ended when the Axis powers raised the white flag and accepted defeat.
So I ask you, who is going to raise a white flag in the war on terror ? What are you going to do to make that happen ? Your enemy doesn't have a standing army to defeat, no capital to take, no country to conquer.
Hell, you cannot even identify your enemy properly. And for every "terrorist" you kill in Iraq or Afghanistan, two more come up.
Maybe you are not losing this war, but you sure as hell are not winning either. It cannot be won. Right now, I'd say it is a stalemate at best. I have said it before, all you do is exchange body bags for little to no considerable gain.

I have heard Americans ( including GWB, I believe ) say that you are fighting in Iraq so that you don't have to fight the terrorists at home. Please forgive me but...WTF!?!?

Just yesterday, I watched the latest death toll on CNN. Since the war broke out in 2003, over 3,000 US troops have been killed, and over 22,000 wounded in battle ( 11,000 of which will never return to service ).
That means you have now sacrificed nearly as much Americans as were killed on 09/11.
For what, I ask you ? What have you achieved ? Do you think there is now less terrorist activity ?

Sure ( and here is another prime argument that some like to throw into the mix ), since the war broke out, there have been no terrorist attacks on US soil by Al'Quaida. But guess what, they don't have to. Thousands of US citizens are running around in ME shitholes, and those are much easier targets.
Sure, 09/11 was huge, but it also took years of careful planning and was a big logistical challenge for Al'Quaida. And it could probably have been prevented with proper intelligence and a little more aviation safety.

Right now though, you are playing right into the terrorists' hands. Killing US citizens now has become nearly an effortless job for Al'Quaida and its followers. An IED, a sniper, a car bomb. Real easy compared to what was necessary to make 09/11 happen. And while their efforts are now minimal, you are headed for the biggest deficit in American history. Trillions of dollars down the drain, for what ?

Again, this is an ideological battle. The terrorists want to scare you, they want to force you to give up the rights and freedoms which you hold so dearly. And guess what ? They are winning.
Patriot Act, warrantless eavesdropping, warrantless scanning of private mail, tens of thousands of troops committed overseas, trillions of dollars.

How much more are you willing to sacrifice in this war ? And what good is supposed to come from it ?

Just imagine you had invested all that money into real counter-terrorism, intelligence, schools, health care, law enforcement, aviation security. Don't you think your country would be much better off today ? And safer, too ?

People tell me that a soldier's life is expendable. They fight, so others don't have to. And while that may be true in theory, it is a sad reality that soldiers are Americans, too. Just like those killed on 09/11, the have mums and dads, brothers and sisters, sons and daughters.

You own government is sacrificing American lifes in a war that cannot be won. Your strategy is failing, and you are giving up core American values in the process.

Raise the white flag, and accept defeat. Rethink your strategy and get your country back on track.

good post, but I gotta disagree on most of it.

This war is just and this war can be won.

Terrorism has been happening around the world for several decades now. NOT fighting them wasn't working, so how about we try fighting them for a change?

It isn't fear that has made the terrorists win anything. If they are winning, it is because attitudes like yours that ring the surrender bell. "Why fight them, you CAN NOT beat them"? What do you think the terrorists are laughing at, your "surrender, defeatist, appeasement, apologist", behavior toward them or the, "No way will we stand for that bullshit any longer", attitude? Which attitude do you think the terrorists want to deal with?

The problem is, hardly any other country is willing to stand up and fight these animals. This war can be won by the free world combining MONEY, effort, intel, forces, and commitment to making sure no terrorists have a safe house to operate from, or financing to operate with.

We are being told we can not win this war. By our selves probably not. As long as people like you keep the fight in the terrorist alive by your white flag waving, appeasement mentality. We will not win. Like WW2, one country alone could not have defeated the axis. Together, they were wiped out. TOGETHER, terrorism can be curtailed if not wiped out. For decades terrorists have had free reign in the world with no repercussions for their actions. YOUR method of appeasement did not work. SO now we fight, and all you want to do is, keep waving the white flag and hope the terrorists won't hurt you, instead of MAKING them not hurt you. My question to you is........WHY? Why do you refuse to stand up for your selves? Why do you refuse to do anything about these acts? Your appeasement of the past did not work, what makes you think it will now?

Iraq was not about terrorism it was about the Gulf War. It only became about terrorism after Saddam was defeated, and it became clear that there was about to be stability, peace and democracy, established in that country. So the terrorists flocked in to make sure none of the above happened, and all you can do is laugh at the US, criticize the US and curse the US. The country that is trying to rebuild Iraq, you hate, and say nothing about the terrorists that are fighting AGAINST the process of restoring stability and peace to this country. Then we have people like you and Cameronpoe, Marconious and the rest of the liberal think tank on here actually applauding our short comings and even our perceived failure. If this war can not be won, it is no wonder.

A united free world, is the only way to win this war. I admit the US is doomed if it fights this war alone, but I am proud of my country for at least fighting on the right side of it. How bout you?

when did I say that terrorism should not be fought ? I thought I had made it clear enough over a couple of posts now ( and in other recent threads about that topic ) that I am all for fighting terrorism in the world, but with the right strategy. Appeasement doesn't work well, I agree, but your strategy obviously doesn't do much good right now, either.

The reason the US is hated so much among the arab population is that it has a history of messing with that region's internal affairs. Later US foreign policy hasn't been much of a success, I think. Let's call it short-sighted.
This is especially true with regard to Osama bin Laden, whom you supported when he was still fighting the "bad" commies in Afghanistan. Saddam had also been a former ally, as long as he fought against the "bad" Ajatollahs in Iran. I don't know what the overall, long-term US strategy for the middle east is, but it sure hasn't worked out well, has it ? You seem to have a strange tendency to create your own enemies.

Maybe you should ask yourself the question why Germany hasn't been the target of muslim fanatics or Al Quaida. After all, we also fight in the war on terror.
I am not talking about appeasement. I am talking about finding the right strategy for the current situation.
I do not hate America. I also do not laugh at America. Why do neo-cons always assume everybody who takes the liberty to criticize US foreign policy or the way the war in Iraq is handled automatically hates the US and wants to see bad things happen to you ?
Let me assure you, I don't. I care as much about freedom and democracy as the next guy.

But I will speak out against a strategy that is obviously failing, and this is especially true when it is becoming more and more obvious that hundreds if not thousands of coalition soldiers have given their lives since 2003, without any considerable progress being made.

lowing wrote:

A united free world, is the only way to win this war. I admit the US is doomed if it fights this war alone, but I am proud of my country for at least fighting on the right side of it. How bout you?

what are you implying ? That Germany is not fighting on the right side ? My apologies, but "condescending a**hole", is all I have to say to that. We are doing what our laws will permit us to do. We are allies in the War on Terror, we have troops in Afghanistan, and German soldiers have died over there.
So don't you dare telling me we are on the wrong side. I am on your side, buddy...

You are not alone. You have tons of allies. But we need to find the right strategy.

lowing wrote:

This war can be won by the free world combining MONEY, effort, intel, forces, and commitment to making sure no terrorists have a safe house to operate from, or financing to operate with.

Well, let's say terrorism can most likely be contained. But brute force won't do the trick.
Right now, America is sacrificing core constitutional values, lifes and a ridiculous amount of money, with no reasonable progress being made.

I'd say that's enough impetus to think about a different approach. How bout you ?

Well, like I said, we tried ignoring them, we tried appeasing them, we tried intel, ( wire tapping, following finances, intel from prisoners) but we can't do that now because the liberals reported our war plans to the NYT and they in turned printed it. All of you peace at any price folks started screaming about terrorist rights at Gitmo and shit. SO, If we can not do any of the above, just HOW exactly do you plan on fighting a group of people who follow no rules, while you bog yourself down with a bunch of liberal make love not war bullshit rules?? Sometime reality has gotta sink in that the terrorists do not care about you any more than the care about "neocons". You are a target. Maybe it is time you acted like they had a bullseye on the back of your head ( which they do) instead of worrying that big brother has planted a bug in your meatloaf.

You say you fight terrorism but what is your grand plan of defeating it? After asking this before I get "....Well, first you gotta show some UNDERSTANDING as to why they do this". Trying to understand it is the same as trying to rationalize it. As if ok now we understand why you are blowing up kids. Now what? Now that you understand you must then be prepared to appease them. If not, why bother understanding??


We mess with their affairs because they control the worlds oil and it is a problem to have a bunch of fuckin' animals in charge of the worlds oil supply. Everyone is fed up and considered them a threat. Read your resolutions.


The strategy is failing because NOBODY wants to help kick the shit out of the scourge that has been a pain in the ass to us all long enough, like Spain you want to appease. Does it really take an attack in GERMANY for you to say enough. If you have not been attacked yet it is because you haven't done anything to piss them off yet.....APPEASEMENT.

CameronPoe wrote:

I'm just glad I live in free Europe. Thanks for the help liberating us America. Give us a buzz if you want us to liberate you from your government.

Buzz.

[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi wrote:

How much terror was there in the US before all this dirty politics,worldpolice,empirebuilding shit started decades ago? Very little? None?

It´s not totaly impossible that terror towards the US started back then and you are still paying many dues for old mistakes....the future will be no different.

How many times did Japan attack us before Pearl Harbor?? NONE!

Policies of inaction have done us nothing! When we gave war a chance, WWII ended and Japan shaped up. . . nuff said! Same can happen in the middle east if we just give war a chance!

Last edited by fadedsteve (2007-01-07 13:05:22)

[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi wrote:

How much terror was there in the US before all this dirty politics,worldpolice,empirebuilding shit started decades ago? Very little? None?

It´s not totaly impossible that terror towards the US started back then and you are still paying many dues for old mistakes....the future will be no different.

and fadedsteve....they RESPOND to violence...the violence they have been suffering from for decades.

Your right!! They ONLY respond to violence, all other means of dealing with them has done us and the world nothing!

I am just pissed we havent already attacked Iran!! Or at least launched airstikes at their nuke facilities! For christs sake they have been at war and have attacked us since the early 80's!! Time for some payback!

Last edited by fadedsteve (2007-01-07 13:12:46)

[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi wrote:

Well you have kinda attacked Iran once...remember you did support the Iraq-Iran war all the way. But from your kind of debating and use of language perhaps you are not old enough to know this part of history? You even used one of the worlds poorest nations for your cold war against Russia, then left them in a hurry, and now you can´t understand why they are pissed at you?

Also they do not only use violence....but it´s kinda hard to use politics when one side refuses to hear anything else then "Jihad Jihad Inshallah inshallah".

They have been attacking you since the 80´s? Did you even think of why? Because you have interfeared their politics,used them for you dirty deeds when it suited you and then turned your back at them when done,assasinated their elected leaders and have put blockades on their trade....all this done decades ago and still are done in present day,you guys never learn doo you?

Don't forget that some of the terrorist groups claim an ideology of spreading Islam by violence, but I don't know if that's an actual goal or something to scare us with. If it is, however, then simply leaving them alone would be the worst thing to do, since they would just have time to attack us more strongly. Even if they don't have such grand plans, appeasing them won't work because they'll simply ask for more each time we give them something. We leave Iraq, they want us to get out of Saudi Arabia. We leave there, they want us to abandon Israel, etc.

[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi wrote:

You really beleive such tiny fractions can in anyway hurt the US? With all your weapons and you are really not anywhere close to the Middle east. Perhaps it´s time for you to leave ...it´s not your land. You only make problems worse all the time with this kind of warfare...why do you think there are terrorists to begin with? WHY do they want to attack you? You really think they do soo for spreading islam?

Unless this empirebuliding,worldpolice and defending your interests worldwide shit stops the terror will never stop. The children to come in USA will pay for your actions just as you have payed for many actions not comitted by you but by earlier administrations, and now you are doing the same mistakes.

You are feeding the ugly terrormonster a supersized McDonalds meal.

Uh, 9/11? Sure, we're not about to see an invasion by terrorists, but that doesn't mean they won't attack us. They've got the capability to kill a large number of people.

UGADawgs wrote:

[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi wrote:

You really beleive such tiny fractions can in anyway hurt the US? With all your weapons and you are really not anywhere close to the Middle east. Perhaps it´s time for you to leave ...it´s not your land. You only make problems worse all the time with this kind of warfare...why do you think there are terrorists to begin with? WHY do they want to attack you? You really think they do soo for spreading islam?

Unless this empirebuliding,worldpolice and defending your interests worldwide shit stops the terror will never stop. The children to come in USA will pay for your actions just as you have payed for many actions not comitted by you but by earlier administrations, and now you are doing the same mistakes.

You are feeding the ugly terrormonster a supersized McDonalds meal.

Uh, 9/11? Sure, we're not about to see an invasion by terrorists, but that doesn't mean they won't attack us. They've got the capability to kill a large number of people.

While 9/11 certainly changed things like our security policies, the event itself was a repercussion of our involvement in the Middle East.  Terrorism does not occur in a political vacuum.

While it is very likely that extremists will still desire to attack us in the future regardless of what we do, the issue here is one of what the repercussions of our current actions are.

More war only leads to more instability.  More instability leads to more terror (like in Iraq).  More terror increases the chance that some group of terrorists will desire to make the trip over here to attack us.  Sure, we haven't been attacked in 9/11 capacity since, but it's only been 5 years.

We probably won't ever be attacked on the level of 9/11 again, but smaller attacks are still a threat.  These threats aren't something that can be eliminated through war.  This is going to take a long term approach.  It's not about negotiating with terrorists, it's about negotiating with governments.

Once our diplomatic and intelligence agencies improve, we'll have better security.  All-out warfare does not make us any safer, but covert operations can -- so does the gradual economic improvement of the Islamic World.  Islamism can become a temporary problem through the gradual Westernization of the Islamic World via trade.

Last edited by Turquoise (2007-01-07 14:22:10)

Now that sounds very similar to Cambodian and Russian politics too me....

[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi wrote:

Soo you beleive that 9/11 was caused by terrorists only? I bet you also beleive that Oswald killed Kennedy right?

Yeah, and I believe that we landed on the Moon too. Seriously, 9/11 conspiracy believers are sad, sad people.

I have never stated that we are innocent, in fact I have stated many times we have done the very same mistakes, we did start two WW´s after all, we did colonize many nations, robbing them blank, we did doo slavery. Up north we HAD wikings...and we also HAD colonies...but that was many years ago, it has never been right and never will be.

Most of theese mistakes was comitted many years ago...though some are still in progress I don´t support them at all.

I can´t say all nations in europe has learned their lessons but in general most european nations have.

Dirty politics and war are not the same as co-operating with politics. And most of your politics lead to wars.

Also no nation in europe are claiming their way of freedom and life to be the only and just one to spread across the world (anymore).

Catch up with time.

[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi wrote:

You are entitled to your opinion ugadawgs....

But it´s time for the american people to understand the have been fooled and tricked into a war for profit and power rather then freedom and goodwill.

You are beeing attacked for many reasons...why give theese small groups more fuel on their fire, and with all the troops and bases around the world you make it even easier for them to attack you. There where no terrorists in Iraq before you entered...there where no terrorists in Afghanistan before you entered the first time (unofficialy but still an entry,mostly CIA), you still don´t see any patterns forming?

And common....moonlanding, oswald...you can´t be serious?

As a side note, the moon landing was very real.

As for JFK, that was just a very complicated mess of an internally supported assassination.  We'll probably never know the full story on that one....