Mitch
16 more years
+877|6526|South Florida
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh … akey12.xml
Oh yes. Looks like the churches are getting a little nervous. Wonder what they have to fear??!!!

The Page wrote:

Powerful evangelical churches are pressing Kenya's national museum to sideline its world-famous collection of hominid bones pointing to man's evolution from ape to human.

Leaders of the country's six-million-strong Pentecostal congregation want Dr Richard Leakey's ground-breaking finds relegated to a back room instead of being given their usual prime billing.
Discuss.

Last edited by Dezerteagal5 (2007-01-03 11:06:21)

15 more years! 15 more years!
acidkiller187
Member
+123|6631
So what your trying to say is............ I was a monkey? I are don't believe you.

Last edited by acidkiller187 (2007-01-03 11:08:29)

Mitch
16 more years
+877|6526|South Florida

acidkiller187 wrote:

So what your trying to say is............ I was a monkey? I are don't believe you.
So what your trying to say is you where magicaly made by the power of a being whom no human alive now has seen and who is only talked about in a  book thousands of years old and whom has no possible explaination for his own existence? Both stories can be stretched

Last edited by Dezerteagal5 (2007-01-03 11:10:04)

15 more years! 15 more years!
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6492|Northern California
Oh yeah, that excerpt really shows the fear of the christian world and their attempt to supress the finding of old bones!  Damn!  you GOT US!!
acidkiller187
Member
+123|6631

Dezerteagal5 wrote:

acidkiller187 wrote:

So what your trying to say is............ I was a monkey? I are don't believe you.
So what your trying to say is you where magicaly made by the power of a being whom no human alive now has seen and who is only talked about in a  book thousands of years old and whom has no possible explaination for his own existence? Both stories can be stretched
So as the saying goes "History repeats itself" does that mean were gonna go from human to ape?

And you just answered yourself (THERE IS NO REAL EXPLANATION)...
Mitch
16 more years
+877|6526|South Florida

acidkiller187 wrote:

Dezerteagal5 wrote:

acidkiller187 wrote:

So what your trying to say is............ I was a monkey? I are don't believe you.
So what your trying to say is you where magicaly made by the power of a being whom no human alive now has seen and who is only talked about in a  book thousands of years old and whom has no possible explaination for his own existence? Both stories can be stretched
So as the saying goes "History repeats itself" does that mean were gonna go from human to ape?

And you just answered yourself (THERE IS NO REAL EXPLANATION)...
If history were to repeat itself then that would mean apes would turn into humans again... not the other way around...
15 more years! 15 more years!
Onidax
Member
+41|6494
get a life, on one cares
Mitch
16 more years
+877|6526|South Florida
Obviously the powerful churches care a lot. I was just wondering what there so afraid of. lol
15 more years! 15 more years!
Psycho
Member since 2005
+44|6777|Kansas, USA
Yeah, and we know "religion" has done a great job of making scientific conclusions up to this point. Just ask Rene De Carte. It only took 300 years for the church to reverse his excommunication for stating the sun was at the center of the universe and not the earth. And that was about 10 years ago.

According to the bible the earth is only about 6,000 years old. There's too much scientific evidence for that to even be a possibility. Some still hold that belief while others "reinterpret" the bible to fit what is now known.

Last edited by Psycho (2007-01-03 11:25:43)

acidkiller187
Member
+123|6631

Dezerteagal5 wrote:

If history were to repeat itself then that would mean apes would turn into humans again... not the other way around...
True! But in order for that to happen humans must first turn into apes, then go back from apes to humans and so on and so on and so on.....
Psycho
Member since 2005
+44|6777|Kansas, USA

acidkiller187 wrote:

Dezerteagal5 wrote:

If history were to repeat itself then that would mean apes would turn into humans again... not the other way around...
True! But in order for that to happen humans must first turn into apes, then go back from apes to humans and so on and so on and so on.....
Um, how is humans turning into apes history repeating itself? That would be history doing the reverse of what it did before. Not only that, but the phrase "history repeats itself" is not a scientific standard. So, it has no relevance here.

Unless you are talking about the fact that for something to be proven scientifically it must be reproducable. Which is a far higher standard of "proof" than any religion requires.

Last edited by Psycho (2007-01-03 11:29:43)

Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|6767|UK
lol I just have to say, all the people that believe in orgainised faith are retards and sheep.
Mitch
16 more years
+877|6526|South Florida

acidkiller187 wrote:

Dezerteagal5 wrote:

If history were to repeat itself then that would mean apes would turn into humans again... not the other way around...
True! But in order for that to happen humans must first turn into apes, then go back from apes to humans and so on and so on and so on.....
That would be the case if there were no present day apes. But there are!! So therefore there would be no need to turn back into them, because there already here. Stop derailing
15 more years! 15 more years!
acidkiller187
Member
+123|6631

Psycho wrote:

acidkiller187 wrote:

Dezerteagal5 wrote:

If history were to repeat itself then that would mean apes would turn into humans again... not the other way around...
True! But in order for that to happen humans must first turn into apes, then go back from apes to humans and so on and so on and so on.....
Um, how is humans turning into apes history repeating itself? That would be history doing the reverse of what it did before. Not only that, but the phrase "history repeats itself" is not a scientific standard. So, it has no relevance here.

Unless you are talking about the fact that for something to be proven scientifically it must be reproducable. Which is a far higher standard of "proof" than any religion requires.
I never was a monkey in the first place......... Don't believe in BS like that "PERIOD" But youre way of thinking is correct though +1 for helping me see the light.
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6737|Salt Lake City

How many fucking times does this need to be said.  Evolution does not say we came from monkies, only that there was some common ancestry along the way.  Holy shit, you guys get you panties in a bunch when you have a bad BF2 round.  I can't imagine what you are like in real life, under real living conditions.  :\
[RDH]Warlord
Quakecon Attendee
+17|6660|SLC, Utah, USA

Psycho wrote:

Yeah, and we know "religion" has done a great job of making scientific conclusions up to this point. Just ask Rene De Carte. It only took 300 years for the church to reverse his excommunication for stating the sun was at the center of the universe and not the earth. And that was about 10 years ago.

According to the bible the earth is only about 6,000 years old. There's too much scientific evidence for that to even be a possibility. Some still hold that belief while others "reinterpret" the bible to fit what is now known.
Technically, that's still incorrect.  The sun is not the center of the UNIVERSE (just our solar system), but close enough.

But this is exactly what I DON'T want my religion (or any other, since I'm not part of this EXACT one...) to do.  Repressing other religions (atheism is one) by demanding any evidence for OTHER religions be replaced.  I say, you're free to believe what you want. 

See, I can explain away these old bones and age of rocks (grand canyon question from earlier), by stating that God did it.  We're all being tested, and what better way than with misleading evidence?

Sounds weak, I know, it is.
Fen321
Member
+54|6498|Singularity
You guys do realize we are all apes?

Monkeys and Apes of today evolved to that state meaning they branched off down different paths at some point otherwise we too would be like them so we chose a different path. So when people say oh no I'm not a monkey, in that implying they are not like the monkey they see today, they are correct but at the same time the miss the point entirely because at one point in history you did have a common ancestor

Thanks to relativity the center of the Universe is everywhere and no where.
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|6767|Cambridge (UK)

Fen321 wrote:

You guys do realize we are all apes?
It's more correct to say that we're all primates.
Fen321
Member
+54|6498|Singularity

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Fen321 wrote:

You guys do realize we are all apes?
It's more correct to say that we're all primates.
> sneaky sneak details hehe
cospengle
Member
+140|6488|Armidale, NSW, Australia

acidkiller187 wrote:

So what your trying to say is............ I was a monkey? I are don't believe you.
No, you still are a monkey.

I don't understand why the church continually tries to sideline things that they don't like. Every time they try, all it does is draw attention to whatever it is they're trying to cover up.
OmniDeath
~
+726|6645

To the OP, nice of you to assume something that isnt true. If you read the whole article it goes on to say

"The Christian community here is very uncomfortable that Leakey and his group want their theories presented as fact," said Bishop Bonifes Adoyo, the head of Christ is the Answer Ministries, the largest Pentecostal church in Kenya.

"Our doctrine is not that we evolved from apes, and we have grave concerns that the museum wants to enhance the prominence of something presented as fact which is just one theory."

The "church" isn't covering anything up. They just don't want the ideas presented as fact when they are merely theory.

Last edited by Omnideath (2007-01-03 14:30:09)

Psycho
Member since 2005
+44|6777|Kansas, USA

acidkiller187 wrote:

Psycho wrote:

acidkiller187 wrote:


True! But in order for that to happen humans must first turn into apes, then go back from apes to humans and so on and so on and so on.....
Um, how is humans turning into apes history repeating itself? That would be history doing the reverse of what it did before. Not only that, but the phrase "history repeats itself" is not a scientific standard. So, it has no relevance here.

Unless you are talking about the fact that for something to be proven scientifically it must be reproducable. Which is a far higher standard of "proof" than any religion requires.
I never was a monkey in the first place......... Don't believe in BS like that "PERIOD" But youre way of thinking is correct though +1 for helping me see the light.
Well, even if you don't agree with someone, you seem to at least consider their arguments - more than what many "religions" people who blindly follow what they are told. I believe people are afraid to question anything about thier religion for fear they will be looked down upon. Plus, most religions are based upon the fact that they are the one true "truth" and are infallible. That is the problem with religions, IMHO.

You have to continually question that which is purported to be true unti it is proven to be true. The early philosophers were always in search for the truth, but they were also devoutly religious people. Even DeCarte was devoutly religios and struggled on how to handle the new proven truth he had found because it ran contrary to what the church purported to be true.

By the way, evolution does not purport that man evolved from monkeys. So, if you don't believe in evolution, do you believe that God instantaneously created Man and Woman? If so, how do you balance that with the fact that there are humanoid remains that have been recovered that are much, much older than the bible purports? Where do you believe that cromagnon and neanderthals fall into this?

Evolution is a fact, not a theory. There is direct evidence that evolution has occured. however, I do believe that if there is a God, he could have created humans at an advanced state and we have evolved from there or that God used evolution to create humans from more primitive animals.

[RDH]Warlord wrote:

Technically, that's still incorrect.  The sun is not the center of the UNIVERSE (just our solar system), but close enough.
Yes, I actually meant to include "universe" in quotes. Because at that time, I believe, they didn't realize there were different galaxies.
cospengle
Member
+140|6488|Armidale, NSW, Australia

Omnideath wrote:

The "church" isn't covering anything up. They just don't want the ideas presented as fact when they are merely theory.
Kind of like the 'theory' of creation eh?
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6494|Connecticut
I beleive in evolution, not Adam and Eve. One quick thing though, the person who wrote the article is an idiot. Anthropology 101 : you cannot have evolved from something that still exists!!!! It says in the first paragraph how humans evolved from apes.Impossible, how are there still apes then? I understand the point they are trying to make, that way, way back our DNA was once one, and then they split which is why they are so similar. But dont accuse an organazation of covering up something that is genetically impossible to begin with.
Malloy must go
jimmanycricket
EBC Member
+56|6656|Cambridge, England
evolution says we have a common ancestor with apes not that we are apes.

It also says we have a common ancestor as a fish, but we are not fish.

What i dont get with the theory of evolution is that the gene pool is too small. Everyone knows that 2 dogs that have near identical genes have near identical gene children.

Ok, so you say that mutations occured and the ones that increased the amount of animals that got to child bearing age survived.

But in lab experiments where fruit flys are exposed to radiation to mutate. Small changes can be made, ie slightly bigger wings, but when ever one gained an extra leg or what ever they became infertile so didnt have ofspring.

how do you explain the massive variety of animals from, what it boils down to are single celled organisms.

Ok, i can see the advantage of being a 5 cells organism to a 1 celled 1. But when they are made of 60 odd cells, it becomes an inconveinence for the organism to split and reproduce.

How do you explain how an organ like the heart first apeared.

Last edited by jimmanycricket (2007-01-03 14:58:36)

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