because we believe the church is the holy place or worship...........Jenkinsbball wrote:
Because religious people are brainwashed as children to believe this shit, so they can grow up and teach their kids, all the while going to a church where they give them money. The church is here to take money from people, simple as that. Anyone could practice their religious beliefs at home for free, but don't.
they were build by humans, just the same way "holy" books were writen by humans, there is nothing special about those building and textskiteboarderni wrote:
because we believe the church is the holy place or worship...........Jenkinsbball wrote:
Because religious people are brainwashed as children to believe this shit, so they can grow up and teach their kids, all the while going to a church where they give them money. The church is here to take money from people, simple as that. Anyone could practice their religious beliefs at home for free, but don't.
I thought they proved evolution. Well, evolution is the most logical idea.ghettoperson wrote:
And the Theory of Evolution is just that, a theory. Not hard facts. I don't really have an opinion on that, before everyone goes nuts with 'ZOMG! U dnt beliv in teh evolutionz!!!
Good post. Most people understood the first reply to the OP as a quick-way-out response without actual thinking.Stingray24 wrote:
OP:
That is the weakness of forums, we all can read into a person's post based on our own biases. I feel you misinterpreted his post. I understood his post to say he was raised a Christian and believes in God because the Bible says He exists. Then he was instantly criticized for the manner in which he answered. Good dialogue won't flourish here unless you challenge his views with your own. Example: "Ok, I don't believe the Bible is true because . . . Why do you believe it's true?" It takes time to be able to express one's religious views effectively, give him a chance.
Let me ask this: Let's assume for argument's sake that the all powerful God Who created the universe exists. If He communicated truth to men who wrote it down, wouldn't it be logical to believe what's written there?
Here is one of many reasons I believe: creation itself. When I look at all the detail necessary for this planet to sustain life, it shouts Creator. Everything we encounter in our existence contains detail to a level that requires a designer. The most complex items we humans can design pale in comparison to the detail we find in nature. We as humans did not create the world we exist upon, so logically someone more powerful than us must exist in order for our exquisite world to come be formed. The universe did not create itself from nothing.
I agree with BigmacK, one simple, short answer cannot possible address all the questions that could arise if we delve into the full depth of this topic. I have done a fair amount of studying and it has, in the end, refined and strengthened my beliefs.
I have spent a long time thinking about this very topic, and I think that there is a god BUT he is not a god which inteferes with the world. Therefore, young-earth creationism is... well... bollocks, to be precise.
@kiteboarderni
A few things. First, if you know something is spelt wrong, don't be an idiot. Use the spellcheck.
Second, where did you get your beliefs from? My religion teacher spent a whole year telling us that any belief was fine, as long as you have thought about it, analysed it and come to the conclusion that yes, this is what you believe. So far, the indications are that you haven't thought hard about this, and are merely searching for a quick way out
@Jenkinsball - use your brain, please. Most clergymen don't have another job. Without donations, how the hell are they meant to survive? How are they going to maintain the churches, set up events? In any case, many (if not most) Christians, anyway, don't actually go to church regularly.[/b]
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
how to survive ? cant they live from love in god ? why god dont use his limitless power to send them stuff they need ? after all they work for himSpark wrote:
Good post. Most people understood the first reply to the OP as a quick-way-out response without actual thinking.Stingray24 wrote:
OP:
That is the weakness of forums, we all can read into a person's post based on our own biases. I feel you misinterpreted his post. I understood his post to say he was raised a Christian and believes in God because the Bible says He exists. Then he was instantly criticized for the manner in which he answered. Good dialogue won't flourish here unless you challenge his views with your own. Example: "Ok, I don't believe the Bible is true because . . . Why do you believe it's true?" It takes time to be able to express one's religious views effectively, give him a chance.
Let me ask this: Let's assume for argument's sake that the all powerful God Who created the universe exists. If He communicated truth to men who wrote it down, wouldn't it be logical to believe what's written there?
Here is one of many reasons I believe: creation itself. When I look at all the detail necessary for this planet to sustain life, it shouts Creator. Everything we encounter in our existence contains detail to a level that requires a designer. The most complex items we humans can design pale in comparison to the detail we find in nature. We as humans did not create the world we exist upon, so logically someone more powerful than us must exist in order for our exquisite world to come be formed. The universe did not create itself from nothing.
I agree with BigmacK, one simple, short answer cannot possible address all the questions that could arise if we delve into the full depth of this topic. I have done a fair amount of studying and it has, in the end, refined and strengthened my beliefs.
I have spent a long time thinking about this very topic, and I think that there is a god BUT he is not a god which inteferes with the world. Therefore, young-earth creationism is... well... bollocks, to be precise.
@kiteboarderni
A few things. First, if you know something is spelt wrong, don't be an idiot. Use the spellcheck.
Second, where did you get your beliefs from? My religion teacher spent a whole year telling us that any belief was fine, as long as you have thought about it, analysed it and come to the conclusion that yes, this is what you believe. So far, the indications are that you haven't thought hard about this, and are merely searching for a quick way out
@Jenkinsball - use your brain, please. Most clergymen don't have another job. Without donations, how the hell are they meant to survive? How are they going to maintain the churches, set up events? In any case, many (if not most) Christians, anyway, don't actually go to church regularly.[/b]
Mogura wrote:
how to survive ? cant they live from love in god ? why god dont use his limitless power to send them stuff they need ? after all they work for himSpark wrote:
Good post. Most people understood the first reply to the OP as a quick-way-out response without actual thinking.Stingray24 wrote:
OP:
That is the weakness of forums, we all can read into a person's post based on our own biases. I feel you misinterpreted his post. I understood his post to say he was raised a Christian and believes in God because the Bible says He exists. Then he was instantly criticized for the manner in which he answered. Good dialogue won't flourish here unless you challenge his views with your own. Example: "Ok, I don't believe the Bible is true because . . . Why do you believe it's true?" It takes time to be able to express one's religious views effectively, give him a chance.
Let me ask this: Let's assume for argument's sake that the all powerful God Who created the universe exists. If He communicated truth to men who wrote it down, wouldn't it be logical to believe what's written there?
Here is one of many reasons I believe: creation itself. When I look at all the detail necessary for this planet to sustain life, it shouts Creator. Everything we encounter in our existence contains detail to a level that requires a designer. The most complex items we humans can design pale in comparison to the detail we find in nature. We as humans did not create the world we exist upon, so logically someone more powerful than us must exist in order for our exquisite world to come be formed. The universe did not create itself from nothing.
I agree with BigmacK, one simple, short answer cannot possible address all the questions that could arise if we delve into the full depth of this topic. I have done a fair amount of studying and it has, in the end, refined and strengthened my beliefs.
I have spent a long time thinking about this very topic, and I think that there is a god BUT he is not a god which inteferes with the world. Therefore, young-earth creationism is... well... bollocks, to be precise.
@kiteboarderni
A few things. First, if you know something is spelt wrong, don't be an idiot. Use the spellcheck.
Second, where did you get your beliefs from? My religion teacher spent a whole year telling us that any belief was fine, as long as you have thought about it, analysed it and come to the conclusion that yes, this is what you believe. So far, the indications are that you haven't thought hard about this, and are merely searching for a quick way out
@Jenkinsball - use your brain, please. Most clergymen don't have another job. Without donations, how the hell are they meant to survive? How are they going to maintain the churches, set up events? In any case, many (if not most) Christians, anyway, don't actually go to church regularly.[/b]
Not in the mood to put up with smartasses.Debate and Serious Talk
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
I believe it's more of a statical fact that we're here. We developed the way we did to meet the environment that was present on this planet. We are who we are because of the levels of oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, and everything else in the air and in the earth. I read that they now estimate that there are over 100 trillion billion billion billion billion billion billion planets in the universe. People say life can't exist anywhere else because we are the only ones that meet the requirements. Total trash, imo. Life like us doesn't exist anywhere else, well maybe, because each plant evolves in it's own direction.Stingray24 wrote:
Here is one of many reasons I believe: creation itself. When I look at all the detail necessary for this planet to sustain life, it shouts Creator. Everything we encounter in our existence contains detail to a level that requires a designer. The most complex items we humans can design pale in comparison to the detail we find in nature. We as humans did not create the world we exist upon, so logically someone more powerful than us must exist in order for our exquisite world to come be formed. The universe did not create itself from nothing.
I think we all look too far into things. Things are the way they are because they are that way. Religious folk say it's because a God created everything, and that's the reason everything is the way it is.
It's like believing in magic, or that you're Neo. You're not the one. Magic isn't real. A belief doesn't make it real.
Religion was created to control the population. "Murder someone, you'll go to Hell." "Commit adultery, you'll go to Hell." "Talk shit to your parents, you'll go to Hell." It's all a system of control to keep people in line so that there wasn't anarchy. Pharaohs, Kings and the Church used religion to control and enslave the population, all the while getting rich and greedy.
"We created a God to feel less insignificant in our place in this universe."
god dont exist, religion is a manmade stuff, all those "holy things" were made by man. god is a imaginary friend for adultsSpark wrote:
Mogura wrote:
how to survive ? cant they live from love in god ? why god dont use his limitless power to send them stuff they need ? after all they work for himSpark wrote:
Good post. Most people understood the first reply to the OP as a quick-way-out response without actual thinking.
I have spent a long time thinking about this very topic, and I think that there is a god BUT he is not a god which inteferes with the world. Therefore, young-earth creationism is... well... bollocks, to be precise.
@kiteboarderni
A few things. First, if you know something is spelt wrong, don't be an idiot. Use the spellcheck.
Second, where did you get your beliefs from? My religion teacher spent a whole year telling us that any belief was fine, as long as you have thought about it, analysed it and come to the conclusion that yes, this is what you believe. So far, the indications are that you haven't thought hard about this, and are merely searching for a quick way out
@Jenkinsball - use your brain, please. Most clergymen don't have another job. Without donations, how the hell are they meant to survive? How are they going to maintain the churches, set up events? In any case, many (if not most) Christians, anyway, don't actually go to church regularly.[/b]Not in the mood to put up with smartasses.Debate and Serious Talk
kiteboarderni wrote:
God aint black
are there people that think that god is a man with a beard?
I think that if there is a god, he doesnt look like us.....
if he is almighty then he is much more then we will every be....
God aint black
are there people that think that god is a man with a beard?
I think that if there is a god, he doesnt look like us.....
if he is almighty then he is much more then we will every be....
Well, it seems they should get a job and contribute to society. Do their little church duties on the weekends and work the other days. Just another excuse to not work.Spark wrote:
Good post. Most people understood the first reply to the OP as a quick-way-out response without actual thinking.Stingray24 wrote:
OP:
That is the weakness of forums, we all can read into a person's post based on our own biases. I feel you misinterpreted his post. I understood his post to say he was raised a Christian and believes in God because the Bible says He exists. Then he was instantly criticized for the manner in which he answered. Good dialogue won't flourish here unless you challenge his views with your own. Example: "Ok, I don't believe the Bible is true because . . . Why do you believe it's true?" It takes time to be able to express one's religious views effectively, give him a chance.
Let me ask this: Let's assume for argument's sake that the all powerful God Who created the universe exists. If He communicated truth to men who wrote it down, wouldn't it be logical to believe what's written there?
Here is one of many reasons I believe: creation itself. When I look at all the detail necessary for this planet to sustain life, it shouts Creator. Everything we encounter in our existence contains detail to a level that requires a designer. The most complex items we humans can design pale in comparison to the detail we find in nature. We as humans did not create the world we exist upon, so logically someone more powerful than us must exist in order for our exquisite world to come be formed. The universe did not create itself from nothing.
I agree with BigmacK, one simple, short answer cannot possible address all the questions that could arise if we delve into the full depth of this topic. I have done a fair amount of studying and it has, in the end, refined and strengthened my beliefs.
I have spent a long time thinking about this very topic, and I think that there is a god BUT he is not a god which inteferes with the world. Therefore, young-earth creationism is... well... bollocks, to be precise.
@kiteboarderni
A few things. First, if you know something is spelt wrong, don't be an idiot. Use the spellcheck.
Second, where did you get your beliefs from? My religion teacher spent a whole year telling us that any belief was fine, as long as you have thought about it, analysed it and come to the conclusion that yes, this is what you believe. So far, the indications are that you haven't thought hard about this, and are merely searching for a quick way out
@Jenkinsball - use your brain, please. Most clergymen don't have another job. Without donations, how the hell are they meant to survive? How are they going to maintain the churches, set up events? In any case, many (if not most) Christians, anyway, don't actually go to church regularly.[/b]
Correct, every single experiment involving pesticide/antibiotic resistance has been proof of evolution. E.g. a few years ago a study was carried out (warning: details of this study have been forgotten by me) they studied a specific type of beetle: in paticular, its resistance to a paticular pesticide. What they did was isolated three groups: a control (always need a control) group, a non-evolving group and an evolving group. The last two groups were exposed to the pesticide. In the non-evolving group, the offspring of the beetles were replaced with beetles from outside: effectively stopping evolution. In the evolving group, things were left to go ahead as normal.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
I thought they proved evolution. Well, evolution is the most logical idea.ghettoperson wrote:
And the Theory of Evolution is just that, a theory. Not hard facts. I don't really have an opinion on that, before everyone goes nuts with 'ZOMG! U dnt beliv in teh evolutionz!!!
What happened: in the non-evolving group, the population slowly but surely diminished and eventually disappeared. In the evolving group, the population fell rapidly at first, but as the naturally resistant beetles survived, their numbers began to increase again, and after just 5 generations (not long in human terms) their population was increasing fast. That is proof of natural selection if ever there was any.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
I believe because its better to believe and be wrong than it it to NOT believe and be wrong.
In first case its all good in second case YOU ARE POONED.
In first case its all good in second case YOU ARE POONED.
fear ! you have fear ! you believe in god who is supposed to be absolute love, because of fear !zeidmaan wrote:
I believe because its better to believe and be wrong than it it to NOT believe and be wrong.
In first case its all good in second case YOU ARE POONED.
Why would a God that created us, his children, damn us to fire, pain and suffering for simply not believing he exists? Sounds like bullshit to me.zeidmaan wrote:
I believe because its better to believe and be wrong than it it to NOT believe and be wrong.
In first case its all good in second case YOU ARE POONED.
it dont only sont like that, it is bullshitJenkinsbball wrote:
Why would a God that created us, his children, damn us to fire, pain and suffering for simply not believing he exists? Sounds like bullshit to me.zeidmaan wrote:
I believe because its better to believe and be wrong than it it to NOT believe and be wrong.
In first case its all good in second case YOU ARE POONED.
That's a poor reason to believe. You don't TRULY believe, you're just looking for a safety net.zeidmaan wrote:
I believe because its better to believe and be wrong than it it to NOT believe and be wrong.
In first case its all good in second case YOU ARE POONED.
Do you know anything about a church? Like how it runs every day, several times a day? They are contributing to society to provide a place for people who DO believe, which is probably one of the best contributions one can make.Well, it seems they should get a job and contribute to society. Do their little church duties on the weekends and work the other days. Just another excuse to not work.
You would do well not to denigrate such people who are truly devoted to their practices.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
There is no HARDCORE evidence on either opinion of the sphere.
Go ahead, argue your heads off that God exists, but try finding some hard evidence that he does. ( Don't tell me "the Bible" because that could have been written by any old sod )
Go read "Small Gods" by Terry Pratchet.
It gives you a perspective you have never had before on religion and Gods.
I don't believe in God, so I may be a tad bias. But I have no problem with people who do ( all my family is christian ) and the fact is, that however strongly you argue for both cases, none wins. Why?
Because on both cases there is no evidence that you can hand to me on a plate to prove either view. You can go and say "Then why do so many people believe in a God of some sort?" and an atheist will retort back "Because they need something secure, safe and loving to hand on to in life, as they are scared of the occurances and scared of death" - or the opposite, depending on who he is arguing against.
Go ahead, argue your heads off that God exists, but try finding some hard evidence that he does. ( Don't tell me "the Bible" because that could have been written by any old sod )
Go read "Small Gods" by Terry Pratchet.
It gives you a perspective you have never had before on religion and Gods.
I don't believe in God, so I may be a tad bias. But I have no problem with people who do ( all my family is christian ) and the fact is, that however strongly you argue for both cases, none wins. Why?
Because on both cases there is no evidence that you can hand to me on a plate to prove either view. You can go and say "Then why do so many people believe in a God of some sort?" and an atheist will retort back "Because they need something secure, safe and loving to hand on to in life, as they are scared of the occurances and scared of death" - or the opposite, depending on who he is arguing against.
well Jesus wasnt black, as he had a white mothern and at the time everybody was white. so i dont see how he could be black, also at no place in the bible does it state he looked any different than anybody else. as he created man in his own image.Bosjesman1 wrote:
kiteboarderni wrote:
God aint black
are there people that think that god is a man with a beard?
I think that if there is a god, he doesnt look like us.....
if he is almighty then he is much more then we will every be....
black peoples are mans too, asian peoples are mans too,....kiteboarderni wrote:
well Jesus wasnt black, as he had a white mothern and at the time everybody was white. so i dont see how he could be black, also at no place in the bible does it state he looked any different than anybody else. as he created man in his own image.Bosjesman1 wrote:
kiteboarderni wrote:
God aint black
are there people that think that god is a man with a beard?
I think that if there is a god, he doesnt look like us.....
if he is almighty then he is much more then we will every be....
kiteboarderni are you racist !? .... yes you are
This is a very hard question to answer.
As for most people the belief in God is down to faith, which is incrediably hard to explain as it is different for every individual person, and since it is so hard an atheist is very unlikely to accept it as it would be so badly explained.
I suppose there are perhaps two main arguments from my own point of view for my belief in God.
Firstly persional experience (which is too long winded to bore you with, although i was not brought up a christian i still became one) and secondly probability.
Probability is perhaps something the scientific atheists can relate to much easier. 99% of science is probability. Very little is actual fact. Most of the things we are told are fact are actually the most probable answer.
If you were walking along the road, and you saw a deck of cards laid out perfectly in order and suits. You would not thinbk they were dropped like that you would think that someone had to put like that.
Then if you look at the world, the planets, the earth. You could look at that and say yes that is ordered, to some extent. So henceforth there is a high probability that it had a creator, a design a designer, which you could take to be God.
As for most people the belief in God is down to faith, which is incrediably hard to explain as it is different for every individual person, and since it is so hard an atheist is very unlikely to accept it as it would be so badly explained.
I suppose there are perhaps two main arguments from my own point of view for my belief in God.
Firstly persional experience (which is too long winded to bore you with, although i was not brought up a christian i still became one) and secondly probability.
Probability is perhaps something the scientific atheists can relate to much easier. 99% of science is probability. Very little is actual fact. Most of the things we are told are fact are actually the most probable answer.
If you were walking along the road, and you saw a deck of cards laid out perfectly in order and suits. You would not thinbk they were dropped like that you would think that someone had to put like that.
Then if you look at the world, the planets, the earth. You could look at that and say yes that is ordered, to some extent. So henceforth there is a high probability that it had a creator, a design a designer, which you could take to be God.
Last edited by teehee1988 (2007-01-03 06:40:26)
I believe because I have to believe...
Jesus is an arab dumbass... Therefore he has tanned skin, where does he live? Israel. That's right, in the middle east.kiteboarderni wrote:
well Jesus wasnt black, as he had a white mothern and at the time everybody was white. so i dont see how he could be black, also at no place in the bible does it state he looked any different than anybody else. as he created man in his own image.Bosjesman1 wrote:
kiteboarderni wrote:
God aint black
are there people that think that god is a man with a beard?
I think that if there is a god, he doesnt look like us.....
if he is almighty then he is much more then we will every be....
Actually, I have no reason not to believe in God. At this time, it is the norm to believe so but when someone comes out saying He is nonexistent, then that is to me just as telling me there is no computer in front of me right now. No matter how many times somebody tells me there is no god, no matter how many insults they throw disguised as disappointment, I can ask what proof they have and they are stumped.
Homer Simpson managed to disprove a god in his universe while working on a tax proposal, I suggest trying that first.
Homer Simpson managed to disprove a god in his universe while working on a tax proposal, I suggest trying that first.
Prohibiting drinking is a rule put in place by churches. Many folks have stereotypes of what Christians can and can't do as a result of those man made rules. The Bible does not prohibit drinking alcoholic beverages, but it does prohibit drunkenness. Nothing in excess is a good rule of thumb for just about anything. Jesus drank wine, though I'd have to look at the original Greek to see if the word used for wine means alcoholic or just a grape juice type thing. If I understand that period of history, wine was much more safe to drink than water because of the impurities water could carry. I could be wrong about that.RedTwizzler wrote:
This reminds me of another question I've always had, but don't want to make another thread about:Stingray24 wrote:
I believe in God and I like beer, so where do I fit?Ty wrote:
On the other side of the argument, Beer exists, and Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
Beer exists without God but God dosn't exist without beer. That's a balance I'm quite content with. If I keep my beer, you fundamentalists can keep your God. Peace out.
Why do people say they are Christians when they drink, gamble, have premarital sex, and other un-Christianly (is that a word?) things?
As far as gambling, the Bible does not specifically address that, but it does speak of being a good steward with one's money. Premarital sex, that's a no-no. As far as doing "un-Christian" things, we Christians are still human and not perfect by any means. That's not an excuse, just reality. I do my best to follow the teachings of Jesus, but I still fail and have to ask forgiveness. No one is capable of living perfectly in their time on earth.
I grow weary of the militant atheists here. I would challenge fellow believers to just leave the topics alone. I have a right to believe as I may, without any scrutiny or insult. True ignorance is shown from intolerance and stereotyping people without first-hand insight, not what you see on TV or hear from the media or what you have proved to be true in your own head (your opinion). How dare you judge others and imply ignorance because they don't feel the way you do. I don't see any Christians posting any anti-atheist remarks, promising hellfire and damnation or judging other beliefs. It is only the "militant atheist" crowd that constantly badgers and prods believers. Do society a favor and keep your selfishness and superiority complex to yourself. I am done with the blatantly insulting remarks and the folks who feel they must disprove God or discourage faith. And BTW, Jesus was a Jew, he was not white, he was not black. The Bible and The Torah make that perfectly clear. And whether you like it or not The Bible and the Torah are ACCEPTED as accurate historical accounts of the Jewish people. I am just waiting for the anti-semitic remarks to come.....