BF2S Forums Separation of Church and State

EVieira wrote:

Mogura wrote:

EVieira wrote:

Well, religion does exist. And its not going away anytime soon. And the fact is, most people DO believe in God.

The truth is, religion isn't bad at all. Its fanatics and those that interpret religion for their own agenda that are bad. If there wasn't religion, these people would still exist, and would find other means to do what they do.

the problem is that most of the religius people, interpret religion for theyr own profit

No, you are just assuming that. I know alot of people who go to church and are very decent, law abiding citizens, and I bet you and others here do too. And I'm pretty sure most of them don't mind the word God in the pledge, but that is my assumption as well.

well i just remember crusades and dark ages, the period when most of the ancient world was rulled by the church, the inquisition, tortures for those who dont share the faith,

now i see iran, afghanistan, ... all the countrys rulled by islam,....

i see all the prechers having sex with childrens, all the religius organisations asking for money "for poor people" but poor people never see that money,.....


people say, yes but 10 commandments, moral,.... but laws can do that wery well, people dont need to follow a religion to not ot be assasins, thiefs,....


religion was usefull before, thousends of years in the past, but now, its time to go forward and let the religion at his place... in the past

Last edited by Mogura (2006-12-28 11:19:06)

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Yes. We should stick to the principles on which this nation was founded. Fuck all these political correctness poster boys.

polux go back to your forum and make me and cyborg ninja meet your cousins :p

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Yes. We should stick to the principles on which this nation was founded. Fuck all these political correctness poster boys.

"One nation under God" was added in 1954. Long after the US had been established. This has been mentioned numerous times already, but it goes a long way to show this has nothing to do with how the nation was founded.

Pug wrote:

Mogura wrote:

well i just remember crusades and dark ages, the period when most of the ancient world was rulled by the church, the inquisition, tortures for those who dont share the faith,

now i see iran, afghanistan, ... all the countrys rulled by islam,....

i see all the prechers having sex with childrens, all the religius organisations asking for money "for poor people" but poor people never see that money,.....


people say, yes but 10 commandments, moral,.... but laws can do that wery well, people dont need to follow a religion to not ot be assasins, thiefs,....


religion was usefull before, thousends of years in the past, but now, its time to go forward and let the religion at his place... in the past

90% of the Belgium population practices some sort of religion, 10% don't.
85% of the US population practices some sort of religion, 15% don't.
Worldwide, 84% of the population practices some sort of religion, 16% don't.

Based on your statement above, does anarchy reign?  Does Belgium have more problems, more violent and more prone to anarchy because Belgium is more religious than the rest of the world?

Source for that?

All the figures I've seen for Belgium suggest that only between 50-55% are religious. 47% are Catholic and the 2nd biggest religion in Belgium is Islam, at 3.5%.

Demographics do suggest there are more problems in countries where more people are religious. But Belgium is a poor example since it is not a very religious state.

Jenkinsbball wrote:

Please, stop debating American policies and problems. You don't live here. Who gives a fuck what you think. "Under God" has always been in it, so it shall stay.

No it hasn't. It's a modern addition, circa 1954.

Pug wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Source for that?

All the figures I've seen for Belgium suggest that only between 50-55% are religious. 47% are Catholic and the 2nd biggest religion in Belgium is Islam, at 3.5%.

Demographics do suggest there are more problems in countries where more people are religious. But Belgium is a poor example since it is not a very religious state.

Ahh - you've been reading the wiki - the stats are just Flanders.


http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/Euro … GIONS.html

Its interesting that both sources suck.  Wiki has one city, the one I cited has unofficial estimates.  But since its published on the internet, both have to be true.

Which brings me back to my original thought - Belgium...can you eat it?

Wiki does not only have one city. It has the region of Flanders, which accounts for 55% of the population of Belgium. Even if 100% of the rest of the population were religious that only makes about 75% of the population religious, not 90%.

The 'cultural christianity' phenomena can distort findings about religion (making populations seem more christian than they are, because of people putting down the religion they have grown up with, regardless of whether they believe in God) in most European countries as well.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2006-12-28 13:04:45)

You can eat it...it just doesn´t tast very good...

And jenkinsball.... that´s the problem...nobody cares, redneck FTW huh? Also i don´t see how you have to live in USA for having opinions about it, surely the US has many opinions about other countries, they even force many nations to bend for their will.

On topic....i think the church should be separated from all other things then the church itself.

Bertster7 wrote:

Wiki does not only have one city. It has the region of Flanders, which accounts for 55% of the population of Belgium. Even if 100% of the rest of the population were religious that only makes about 75% of the population religious, not 90%.

The 'cultural christianity' phenomena can distort findings about religion (making populations seem more christian than they are, because of people putting down the religion they have grown up with, regardless of whether they believe in God) in most European countries as well.

Good post - excellent clarification - absolutely true.  Basically, people are afraid to admit that they aren't religious so they tell the surveyors anything to make them happy.  A basic question I'm wondering about is - why do they include it on a survey at all?  Why is it important to know the religion of a certain area?  I can see where race would be important to gauge the amount of immigrants, or income levels...but religion?

I guess my original thought is that following religion does not make one rape and pillage the land - if it did all but 16% of the world population follows something...so anarchy reigns?  I don't think so.  Yeah, it sucks when things are tied up with extremist views where a crusader/inquisition type reaction or priests are abusing their power to commit crimes...but it doesn't mean religion is bad, nor does it mean it's good.

Sorry if I offended native Belgium peeps by proving my ignorance yet again.

Pug wrote:

Mogura wrote:

well i just remember crusades and dark ages, the period when most of the ancient world was rulled by the church, the inquisition, tortures for those who dont share the faith,

now i see iran, afghanistan, ... all the countrys rulled by islam,....

i see all the prechers having sex with childrens, all the religius organisations asking for money "for poor people" but poor people never see that money,.....


people say, yes but 10 commandments, moral,.... but laws can do that wery well, people dont need to follow a religion to not ot be assasins, thiefs,....


religion was usefull before, thousends of years in the past, but now, its time to go forward and let the religion at his place... in the past

90% of the Belgium population practices some sort of religion, 10% don't.
85% of the US population practices some sort of religion, 15% don't.
Worldwide, 84% of the population practices some sort of religion, 16% don't.

Based on your statement above, does anarchy reign?  Does Belgium have more problems, more violent and more prone to anarchy because Belgium is more religious than the rest of the world?

but here in belgium and in europe ( euro zone ) we dont have religius sentences on money, we dont have to put or hand on bible while in justice court, in public schools childrens dont learn crationism in science class, in belgium womans have right to abortion...

i dont deny that belgians are religius, but in belgium church have as much in fluence on politics and governement as i have on the petrol price .


and here a lot of those "religius" belgians, say they are religius because they +/- believe in an supreme being ( some time they do , sometime they dont) and dont practice any religion and ritual

Last edited by Mogura (2006-12-28 13:31:21)

Kmarion wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

The words "under God" were added in 1954, not by the founders of your country.

Jehovah's Witnesses pretty much.

omg jehovas, dont talk me about them, they always try to sell me some books and stuff ...

Mogura wrote:

but here in belgium and in europe ( euro zone ) we dont have religius sentences on money, we dont have to put or hand on bible while in justice court, in public schools childrens dont learn crationism in science class, in belgium womans have right to abortion...

i dont deny that belgians are religius, but in belgium church have as much in fluence on politics and governement as i have on the petrol price .


and here a lot of those "religius" belgians, say they are religius because they +/- believe in an supreme being ( some time they do , sometime they dont) and dont practice any religion and ritual

aww shoot - it's just a symbol/tradition.  just because its tradition doesn't make the church control life over here.  and the logic in this thread "don't put god on the dollar" "don't put god in the pledge of allegience" etc, is exactly HOW creationism got itself into the classroom - by some politically correct bullshit agenda.  plus abortion rights are governed by the State level, not legislated at the national level.  also, as far as performing an oath on the bible - you can perform an oath on anything you like - your family, the Koran, whatever - it's symbolic of not wanting to break an oath.

as far as religious people go...everyone can be a hypocrit or an a-hole.

Ya'll are making a leap in logic...putting "God" on stuff doesn't do what you think it does.  Now if you want to say it's not politically correct...well there's a point to discuss.  But to make the statement that the US is run by religious zealots - just look at this this and this...there is a clear separation between religion and government.

now if Jehovas is annoying to you guys...imagine a intifada, and beeing run by a muslim goverment...kinda like Iraq but the opposite way.

"In God We Trust" has been on US Currency since 1864. However, more people seem to take issue with the Pledge of Allegience which most adults never recite at all, but they use money every day.

Personally, I have no problem with the references in the Allegiance or on our currency as it IS part of who this country is. And, I'm agnostic.