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2006-12-14 19:12:27
Linus
Member
+53|6655
petitions ??? gimme a break. Thats just a bunch of words that make people feel all warm and tingly
inside, but otherwise have no affect.

2142 Sales are very very low compared to BF2. You would think they would see this and perhaps
put a little more effort into 'support', but we are dealing with EA, here.

If it doesnt have Madden or Woods in the title they could care less, its a side project.
2006-12-14 20:51:01
Moonraker_x29
First man on Mars
+9|6692|England, GBR
You know... one day, EA will rue the time they constantly put out buggy games for a quick buck instead of sticking with a good game and helping it's fan base / customers along...

SF was awesome. It died a quick, quick death. It's still played by those hard-core individuals, but the way it disappeared of the radar was so shocking....

BF2 is a class game, yet it's dying faster than it should. Some players still play it, some have gone on to other games, some are saying "I'm waiting for ET:QW etc etc.".... Yet thousands upon thousands have stuck with many games over years and years (ala Counter Strike).

EA HAD THE IDEA... THEY JUST DIDN'T HAVE THE MANAGEMENT.

We were all willing to stick with them, and we do as there is no rival in our eyes to the BF series, or if there is for certain people... the battlefield just keeps us hooked!

I don't blame DICE, they're butchered into it by EA's management. I can imagine a guy who is on a fat salary at EA, let's call him the "Battlefield Project Manager". This guy HOUNDS the DICE BF team each day "what have you do, whats your progress. WE NEED THE PRODUCT NOW. WE'LL FIX IT LATER. WE NEED TO MEET THIS LAUNCH DATE" etc. etc.

Hence, I come back to my original sentance "one day, EA will rue the time they constantly put out buggy games for a quick buck".

COS ONE DAY THERE WILL BE ANOTHER BF (2 or 2142, or even 1942) TYPE GAME THAT WILL RESPECT IT'S PLAYERS AND HELP (OR EVEN TRY TO HELP) IT'S FAN BASE, COMMUNITY AND INDEED IT'S CUSTOMERS. - AND WHEN THAT DAY COMES.... WE MY FRIENDS, WILL BE OUT OF HERE AND EA WILL BE LEFT WONDERING WHAT HAPPENED.
2006-12-14 20:56:48
weamo8
Member
+50|6444|USA
What a bunch of asses.  I've got to stop giving them my money.
2006-12-14 21:38:50
JdeFalconr
Lex Luthor, King of Australia
+72|6544|Sammamish, WA
While we hope we have wildly misconstrued events, we believe that EA has never planned to provide stats, and all press releases and/or emails to the contrary were attempts to placate the community until they were able to release their own EA branded stat site.
Yup I agree completely. Why should they allow community feeds when they can force people to come to their site? They probably just didn't want to tell community sites they're being screwed, they'd rather string all of us along.
2006-12-15 02:37:22
Daxmann
Member
+0|6712|Denmark
How about writeing a mail to EA support like Manlaan write at bf2player ??

"While the message above was put together by the site leaders of the listed communities, I believe that we should also act as leaders and give direction to a way to show EA that the community stands together.

Originally, I was gonig to go the whole boycott/strike method, but for EA to see any effects of that, it would have to take place during the release of an expansion. A strike would only hurt the server providers, not EA.

So, instead, I'm going to go the contacting route.

First, if you're part of a clan or community, please spread this community letter around to them. The more people that are aware of it, the better. Either copy/paste or give a link. Both work equally, but spread the word.

Second, go to http://support.ea.com Click on the "Contact Us" tab. Sign in (I think its the same thing you sign into 2142 as). Choose PC and Battlefield 2142, Game Features and Information, Profiles and Stats. Enter a brief message along the lines of "Please release a stats feed to sites like bf2s, bf2player, bf2142tracker, and BF2142Stats.nl". Click Submit.

If you've already done something similar, but under a different category, please resubmit under the category listed above so EA can see the number of requests. Please dont submit more than once in this category though. If you haven't done it yet, please do so asap, as all the sites listed above are counting on you to tell EA what you want.

Regretfully, this isn't something our sites can do alone, so everyone get out and tell EA what you want. This is one of those times that everyones vote counts, so dont let us down. Show EA the community can stick together and with out the community, they have nothing but a subpar game."

Last edited by Daxmann (2006-12-15 02:38:12)

2006-12-15 02:52:23
brome
brap.
+244|6589|Accidental, TK

Moonraker_x29 wrote:

You know... one day, EA will rue the time they constantly put out buggy games for a quick buck instead of sticking with a good game and helping it's fan base / customers along...

SF was awesome. It died a quick, quick death. It's still played by those hard-core individuals, but the way it disappeared of the radar was so shocking....

BF2 is a class game, yet it's dying faster than it should. Some players still play it, some have gone on to other games, some are saying "I'm waiting for ET:QW etc etc.".... Yet thousands upon thousands have stuck with many games over years and years (ala Counter Strike).

EA HAD THE IDEA... THEY JUST DIDN'T HAVE THE MANAGEMENT.

We were all willing to stick with them, and we do as there is no rival in our eyes to the BF series, or if there is for certain people... the battlefield just keeps us hooked!

I don't blame DICE, they're butchered into it by EA's management. I can imagine a guy who is on a fat salary at EA, let's call him the "Battlefield Project Manager". This guy HOUNDS the DICE BF team each day "what have you do, whats your progress. WE NEED THE PRODUCT NOW. WE'LL FIX IT LATER. WE NEED TO MEET THIS LAUNCH DATE" etc. etc.

Hence, I come back to my original sentance "one day, EA will rue the time they constantly put out buggy games for a quick buck".

COS ONE DAY THERE WILL BE ANOTHER BF (2 or 2142, or even 1942) TYPE GAME THAT WILL RESPECT IT'S PLAYERS AND HELP (OR EVEN TRY TO HELP) IT'S FAN BASE, COMMUNITY AND INDEED IT'S CUSTOMERS. - AND WHEN THAT DAY COMES.... WE MY FRIENDS, WILL BE OUT OF HERE AND EA WILL BE LEFT WONDERING WHAT HAPPENED.
Afree with you totally.  EA is killing their own creation.  They have yet another Battlefield in the pipeline, so 2142 is just a stop-gap and another £40 from our pockets
2006-12-15 02:55:01
t2krambo
Banned
+99|6529|Panama
Has the letter already been sent to EA/DICE?
2006-12-15 03:34:23
DoctorFruitloop
Level 13 Wrongdoer
+515|6548|Doncaster, UK

brome wrote:

Moonraker_x29 wrote:

You know... one day, EA will rue the time they constantly put out buggy games for a quick buck instead of sticking with a good game and helping it's fan base / customers along...

SF was awesome. It died a quick, quick death. It's still played by those hard-core individuals, but the way it disappeared of the radar was so shocking....

BF2 is a class game, yet it's dying faster than it should. Some players still play it, some have gone on to other games, some are saying "I'm waiting for ET:QW etc etc.".... Yet thousands upon thousands have stuck with many games over years and years (ala Counter Strike).

EA HAD THE IDEA... THEY JUST DIDN'T HAVE THE MANAGEMENT.

We were all willing to stick with them, and we do as there is no rival in our eyes to the BF series, or if there is for certain people... the battlefield just keeps us hooked!

I don't blame DICE, they're butchered into it by EA's management. I can imagine a guy who is on a fat salary at EA, let's call him the "Battlefield Project Manager". This guy HOUNDS the DICE BF team each day "what have you do, whats your progress. WE NEED THE PRODUCT NOW. WE'LL FIX IT LATER. WE NEED TO MEET THIS LAUNCH DATE" etc. etc.

Hence, I come back to my original sentance "one day, EA will rue the time they constantly put out buggy games for a quick buck".

COS ONE DAY THERE WILL BE ANOTHER BF (2 or 2142, or even 1942) TYPE GAME THAT WILL RESPECT IT'S PLAYERS AND HELP (OR EVEN TRY TO HELP) IT'S FAN BASE, COMMUNITY AND INDEED IT'S CUSTOMERS. - AND WHEN THAT DAY COMES.... WE MY FRIENDS, WILL BE OUT OF HERE AND EA WILL BE LEFT WONDERING WHAT HAPPENED.
Afree with you totally.  EA is killing their own creation.  They have yet another Battlefield in the pipeline, so 2142 is just a stop-gap and another £40 from our pockets
I think once Enemy Territory or Frontlines:Fuel of War are released EA may be sweating.
2006-12-15 06:26:35
Delphy
Member
+45|6587|Bristol, UK
We need to get a multi-miliionaire to buy Dice and Battlefield back off EA I think.
2006-12-15 06:34:33
LordToon
Member
+1|6345|Toronto, Canada
Been on this site since July, I just wanted to say thanks to Chuy for all the work he's done.  Don't know if I have the willpower to completely stop playing but I will refuse to use EA's horrible stat site.  Hope everything works out in the end.
2006-12-15 07:34:56
cospengle
Member
+140|6489|Armidale, NSW, Australia
There is a sentiment in this thread that says "EA/DICE owe Chuy (or rather his BF2S.com) big-time for making their game famous, and because of that, they should give BF2S free use of their stats feed."

Some people seem to think that EA has somehow made more money because of this site. Well I'd just like to point out that EA have spent a good deal of money on advertising (for both BF2 and BF2142). Even though BF2S has promoted the game, if it weren't for EA/DICE putting out the game in the first place, BF2S wouldn't even exist, let alone make a bit of cash for those that (quite deservedly) earn a quid setting it up and maintaining it.

If EA wants to set up it's own site to give BF2142 players access to their stats, well that's their prerogative. It's their product and they have every right to pursue every bit of profit they can get out of it. If there's a market for a great multi-player FPS that doesn't make money for the publisher, then I'm sure it will be made by someone who just wants to do it for the 'fun' of it (IE THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!!)

Chuy, I really don't think you have the right to demand anything from EA or DICE or IGN. But, I do think EA would do themselves a favour if they gave you a blow job while they beg you to make a stats site for them.
2006-12-15 07:47:26
chuyskywalker
Admin
+2,439|6849|"Frisco"

cospengle wrote:

Chuy, I really don't think you have the right to demand anything from EA or DICE or IGN. But, I do think EA would do themselves a favour if they gave you a blow job while they beg you to make a stats site for them.
I don't disagree with that. While I think you sell the long-term community building aspects of this site (and others like it) a bit short, you are right that it is their product. It's debateable about who the stats belong to (the players who are ultimately responsible for them, or the company who gives them no choice but to aggregate them to location X).

However, the big beef is that we've been told since pre-beta days that we'd be in on the stats for the game, yet every action they've taken seems to say the exact opposite. Our upset is not that we've been told "No, we're keeping the stats in house, sorry.", but that we've been strung along and hung out to dry.
2006-12-15 08:09:54
cospengle
Member
+140|6489|Armidale, NSW, Australia
Sorry if you think I'm selling you short, I was just trying to balance out the somewhat 'over-selling' that was going on in the thread. BF2S is not trivial in the gaming community. You deserve to be proud of your achievements, and I hold you in high regard because of them.

But regardless of your 'beef', EA hold the information, and as far as I'm concerned they own it. I don't think you can argue that being a subject of a statistical study confers ownership, but hey, I'm just a number so what do I know

Edit: BTW, I don't have 2142. A case of once bitten twice shy. If it weren't for this site I wouldn't even have gotten ranked in BF2 at all, let alone gotten through the technical hurdles necessary to cope with the various patches. EA didn't provide a functional product, but you did; and in the process allowed many gamers the opportunity to enjoy what they paid for. In fact, the whole BF2 experience has actually lead me to go back to university to study a for a master of computer science.

Edit #2: Yeah liquidat0r, I get it. It's not about EA's complete disregard for common sense, it's about their rudeness

Last edited by cospengle (2006-12-15 08:38:21)

2006-12-15 08:28:34
liquidat0r
wtf.
+2,223|6629|UK
Owning it and telling people they are not going to release it is different to owning it, telling people that they will probably release it, then saying it's not ready/doesn't work and then using it themselves to do what sites like bf2s would have done.

That didn't make much sense, but you get the idea.
2006-12-15 08:40:58
Moonraker_x29
First man on Mars
+9|6692|England, GBR
I don't it's so much "We don't have stats let's moan", I think this is turning out like other other threads about something against EA, and it's building up. It's another thing to add to the amazingly HUGE list of things EA have done that has upset the fan base, or affected gameplay.

Personally I think 1.41 patch is fine. Obviously a few tweaks, but if you enjoy the game, and you're a dedicated gamer, you'll find your way around anything. I still moan when I get killed when I blatantly own someone though! lol.

I DO also think it's not that Chuy or BF2s "DESERVE" or "HAVE RIGHTS" to the stats, but some ideas they do. As they seem a blatant rip-off. But it's the Principal. You only have to look here at the amount of chat and traffic that goes on to see it's quite vital to the BF2 community, along with other "fan sites" if you will.

Releasing a game these days is much more than years ago. There's several ways to do it, and the level competition means you have to think of your after market audience.... Soem games charge monthly fees, some (ala CSS) update the game regularly (so no need for stupid 500MB+ files to fix one stupid thing!) of their own passion for the game and free will. Thus the figures speak for themselves.

CSS player numbers >BF* series players. Again mirrored in LAN events for prize money.

Valve have taken care of their after market, EA haven't. Pennies make Pounds as we say here (US: Cents make Dollars! lol), something like the stats feed may sound like pennies, but it's how they can do something so trivial... And that for me enhances my enjoyment of the game (and of course, I wait ages for EA site to bloody load!)
2006-12-15 08:51:18
cheshiremoe
Evil Geniuses for a sparsely populated tomorrow
+50|6711

cospengle wrote:

Sorry if you think I'm selling you short, I was just trying to balance out the somewhat 'over-selling' that was going on in the thread. BF2S is not trivial in the gaming community. You deserve to be proud of your achievements, and I hold you in high regard because of them.

But regardless of your 'beef', EA hold the information, and as far as I'm concerned they own it. I don't think you can argue that being a subject of a statistical study confers ownership, but hey, I'm just a number so what do I know
I don't think they owe it to Chuy to provide him with a stats feed ( unless you look at all the ideas here at bf2s that EA/DICE copied and put in the game). 

I do how ever think that they owe it to loyal followers of the game (us, the Battle Field players).  A huge part of what makes an on-line game a success are the players and the word of mouth they provide drawing more players to buy the game.  The stats feed is what gets people to visit the community forums initially.  With out the stats feed the forums will not be as rich with experience or talent.  The EA forum does not function the same way because it has to be moderated differently and does not have as much personality of leadership.
We the players are the ones that EA makes there money from and provide the drive to make a new game.  Quality stats sites help bolster and maintain interest in the series, in the end it makes EA more money.

If the only concern is bandwidth and performance I am sure that the stats could be provided on a less frequent basis. 

Also, If I remember correctly Chuy is under obligation maintain this site as non-profit or not receive the stats feed.  If EA wanted to get something for providing stats ( no adds on the official site yet) then I am sure they could work with Chuy or the other stat sites to host EA's adds provided that they were not too obnoxious.
2006-12-15 09:52:28
Hurricane
Banned
+1,153|6632|Washington, DC

Hellogoodsir wrote:

Hurricane wrote:

liquidat0r wrote:

What about an 'official' petition. The same way that this topic is 'official'.
The BF2.SE petition to not have squad hopping removed in 1.3 had not even a wink from EA, and it had thousands of signatures.

Let's face it: the only way EA will listen to the community is if everyone boycotted their products. And as OrangeHound said, I doubt any person in this community or any other BF community has the self-discipline to do this.
You bought 2142.
I bought it for $25. I don't know the exact amount that is split between the publisher, the developer, and the retailer, but I do know that EA got less cash than they begged for. $25 seemed like a reasonable price to me for 2142, given how soon it came after BF2 and EA's great big messup they did with BF2

Again, someone just entertain me (yes I'm sure nobody here works at EA or, if they do, know this): Why does EA follow a poor business model where they just pump out games like Honda makes Civics, while Valve focuses on community and game support and still stay in business? Why and how could it hurt EA to let DICE take their time to polish their game, then fix any bugs that come up?

Keep your customers happy, they'll keep coming back. Piss them off and they'll quit coming.
2006-12-15 09:59:57
cheshiremoe
Evil Geniuses for a sparsely populated tomorrow
+50|6711

Hurricane wrote:

...


Again, someone just entertain me (yes I'm sure nobody here works at EA or, if they do, know this): Why does EA follow a poor business model where they just pump out games like Honda makes Civics, while Valve focuses on community and game support and still stay in business? Why and how could it hurt EA to let DICE take their time to polish their game, then fix any bugs that come up?

Keep your customers happy, they'll keep coming back. Piss them off and they'll quit coming.
Don't offend Honda by compairing them to EA.
2006-12-15 11:56:31
t2krambo
Banned
+99|6529|Panama
Ea just sucks... my bank account to -$1000,-
2006-12-15 11:57:30
MikesonCZ
Member
+3|6569|Czech Republic (Prague)
shame on EA!!!
2006-12-15 12:34:42
WarriorDave
Member
+10|6372|Louisville, Ky
I think both sides have been argued, so I'll add my opinions.

Chuy's site is a work of art. I've been coming here since I don't know when, and cannot recall how I was brought here. If it were not for the stats feed, I wouldn't have even bought BF2, and wouldn't have ever visited this website. Stats make my penis longer. Do I think BF2s.com and other fan-based websites should have 2142 stats feed? Without a doubt.

I hate EA. Their bad reputation is longer than my rap sheet. I've pirated every EA game since BF2, and I won't be duped into buying another. BF2142's demo proved to me that EA was shit still, and had no intention of releasing a quality, finished game. BF2142's sales along testify that bad business = no business. If it weren't for the mindless couch potatoes who buy every year of Madden or Woods or EA's other sports titles, they wouldn't have any business. Their blatant disregard for the community upsets me. I've worked for successful businesses, and product sells itself, but service keeps customers coming back. EA may have thought they've got an advertising cash cow with the Battlefield series. Ad revenue is a pathetic excuse for alienating the very community that made this series popular.
Someone's already said it, but without DC and other community-made mods, BF1942 and latter titles wouldn't have been the knockouts they were. I personally played only DC after it's release. Vietnam was a shit game, so releasing a better-looking DC-type game made sense, since it's popular. BF2 was released before it was finished, which endless people can agree with.

Again, I would never have bought BF2 without this page and it's stats tracking. I was mooching off a friend's CD Key up until I was directed to this site. AT that point I wanted to play BF2 more than just 20 minutes a day.
2006-12-15 13:37:09
MikesonCZ
Member
+3|6569|Czech Republic (Prague)

Daxmann wrote:

How about writeing a mail to EA support like Manlaan write at bf2player ??

"While the message above was put together by the site leaders of the listed communities, I believe that we should also act as leaders and give direction to a way to show EA that the community stands together.

Originally, I was gonig to go the whole boycott/strike method, but for EA to see any effects of that, it would have to take place during the release of an expansion. A strike would only hurt the server providers, not EA.

So, instead, I'm going to go the contacting route.

First, if you're part of a clan or community, please spread this community letter around to them. The more people that are aware of it, the better. Either copy/paste or give a link. Both work equally, but spread the word.

Second, go to http://support.ea.com Click on the "Contact Us" tab. Sign in (I think its the same thing you sign into 2142 as). Choose PC and Battlefield 2142, Game Features and Information, Profiles and Stats. Enter a brief message along the lines of "Please release a stats feed to sites like bf2s, bf2player, bf2142tracker, and BF2142Stats.nl". Click Submit.

If you've already done something similar, but under a different category, please resubmit under the category listed above so EA can see the number of requests. Please dont submit more than once in this category though. If you haven't done it yet, please do so asap, as all the sites listed above are counting on you to tell EA what you want.

Regretfully, this isn't something our sites can do alone, so everyone get out and tell EA what you want. This is one of those times that everyones vote counts, so dont let us down. Show EA the community can stick together and with out the community, they have nothing but a subpar game."
Good Point. I sent them my request for stats too. I am waiting for their answer!
2006-12-15 23:56:30
~Smokey~
Steve Irwin Reincarnate
+396|6539|Internetfitlerland

/Agrees with Sarrk.

Me and you mate, Im so there.
2006-12-16 00:06:43
sixshot
Decepticon Geek
+50|6677|Planet Seibertron ;)
Lots of things going around... saw some valid points made.  Too lazy to paste them here.

Hurricane wrote:

I bought it for $25. I don't know the exact amount that is split between the publisher, the developer, and the retailer, but I do know that EA got less cash than they begged for.
I'm part of this bunch.  I snatched up 2142 for this price and to me, it's better than paying full price for a recent game.  I didn't care who was getting shortchanged.  I just know that for the price it was advertised for, the other $25 went missing somewhere in the pipeline.

The lack of communication between the stat site developers and EA/DICE is reminding me of TRIBES: Vengeance and Vivendi Universal Games.  For 6 agonizing months, players of this game had to deal with server instability and aimbotting a-holes.  And then VUG decided to shut down support for the game, claiming or citing poor game sales.  Is this lack of communication telling us that 2142 is probably doomed from the start?  I do not know.  I don't have the sales number on hand nor do I know if it's a hot seller.  But I do know that lack of communication is never a good thing.  And EA is just taking advantage of the playerbase just because they scored big with the BF franchise.  The money is getting to their heads and they are distancing themselves farther away from the community.

There are plenty of viable fixes to help keep the franchise alive... talk, interact, and help.  If EA wants to continue raking in the dough, they should start truly supporting the games.  And it's not through a series of patches, fixes, and "enhancements."  They need to help the modders.  They need to start giving out "Seal of Approvals" for user-created maps (ie. map validation).  They should grow up and start taking responsibility for the franchise that helped bring in big bucks.

I'm digressing a bit... but the main point is there.  EA just need to wise up and start taking care of their franchises and IPs.

 

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