because it takes time, ask someone from the 1500's to send a message overseas in a matter of seconds and they will till you it is impossible. we dont have finite minds. we just need infinite time to figure it all out.Stingray24 wrote:
If we're truly the masters of our own destiny, why haven't we grasped the details of our universe by now? Because we have finite minds. We can't possibly fully understand the complete depth of our universe. All we have are scientific theories that are a feeble attempt to explain things in terms we can wrap our minds around.
i think people become atheists because the world is smaller and we have alot of exposure to different lifestyles, cultures and opinions of millions of people. we aren't restricted to a small like minded community.
have you been to a hospital lately? Why would a god allow all these innocent people to suffer as they do. what evil has a 5 year old done to get cancer. you my friend, are wrong. and comparing god to a bf2 admin is just stupid.d4rkst4r wrote:
Your kinda of wrong there. He made the world. The world is controlled by Satin, the rest of everything is controlled by God, he made it, he controlls it. He allows bad things to happen because people deserve it, picture thisnorge wrote:
theres 3 options as to why god allows the pain and suffering to occur in this world.Turquoise wrote:
I think there are two things being hit on here that need to be addressed....
First, interpretation is everything. Religion depends more on that than even the text being used.
Second, many non-religious people question how a benevolent god could allow so many atrocities to occur in his/her/its name.
These are definite seeds of doubt that prevent many people like myself from choosing a religion.
1) he couldnt prevent it (which means he is NOT all powerful)
2) he doesnt care (which means he is not a good god.)
3) he could not foresee this (not an all knowing being)
You own a BF2 server. People come in trash talking the admins, what do you do?
A) Punish them
B) Ignore them
I agree that free will is the reality of the situation. I'm just saying that this god figure must either not be omniscient or not benevolent.EVieira wrote:
Nonono, don't go blaming god! We are screwing up the world he created, and you wan to blame him! With free will we can choose to be evil, but its up to us. We can be driven to it, I agree, but only in consequence to the actions of other men, not because of a design flaw.Turquoise wrote:
Yes, but most people assume that god is all-knowing, so he/she/it literally created some of us to become evil. We have free will, but we are supposedly designed by this being. Therefore, there is an element of responsibility.
Thats the thing with free will, if we didn't have it things would be too easy. We could just say "God told me to do it", and so its not our fault. Thats why most terrorists are fanaticals, if they were in their right mind thay wouldn't blow people up. They do it because "god tells them to".
Because religion suckors. Thats all im gunna say. I can't be arsed to justify why I don't believe in god or know that he realy doesn't give a flying fuck about us, just like scientists don't give a fuck about the germs they make and kill in experiments.
good postRecoil555 wrote:
I'm an atheist and the reason is that i find god too human as a concept to believe it. It sounds as if a human has made it up. Religion comes from wanting to know why we are here and whats the point of it all and the old human flaw that humans think they have a purpose just because we seem to be better at surviving and thriving than any other animal.
I think that we are up are own arses if we think that frankly that we have " divine purpose" we evolved and became dominant and we are so insignificant in comparison to the rest of universe and their are plenty more wondrous things in the universe than us.
Even if their was a higher being that created us even then i wouldn't call it a god i would call it an alien if anything with more than our knowledge of science making it capable of creating earth and all its inhabitance and how crazy does that sound ? it just doesn't make sense to me.
However Religion does offer comfort to people in grave situations and gives you a good moral compass in most cases so therefore i cannot complain about religion in general society but religious war is bullshit and telling/preaching to people that don't want to be religious is bullshit also.
yet another excellent postDrakef wrote:
If God is indeed an omnipotent being, he would realize that so many would not follow his rules, before he created humans. He would know exactly what would happen with each of us. And that begs an interesting question (hypothetical for us atheists): Did God create us to only go to hell? He knew that atheists would not want to follow him and thusly go to hell. Therefore, was I created to go to hell, with the implicit knowledge of God, who, if omnipotent, would realize this? I am therefore doomed to go hell (hypothetically, of course).EVieira wrote:
Its called free will. There would be no point in life if god called all the shots. And so, many people choose to kill, to lie, steal, etc. People coulde choose peace and tolerance, but its up to them.
Why would God do such a thing? Of course, unless he has no control of us, and therefore, I find little reason to worship him. Of course, we can always question why a god would bother creating humans, especially since we are indeed flawed in the eyes of this God. Partly because we are sinners from birth, partly because so many refuse to believe in religion, or the great variations of religion. Why does he need to create humans? For what purpose? And for what reason must he worshipped? What free will is that, where he demands that we must attune our lives to a particular dogma, and if not, spend the rest of time in hell?
why did they stop believing?i think that one reason is because religion may make people feel guilty about doing things or make them feel obligated to do things they don't want to.they don't want to believe that they are being judged their whole lives,or maybe they believe religion is hypocritical.i myself am a catholic,but it seems sort of funny to me even that the catholic church preaches to give everything you have to the poor and that the poor are most valued,when in fact most catholics(the ones that go to my church at least) are very well off.i dunno,that's just my 2 cents.sergeriver wrote:
Today almost 1,2 billion persons are atheists or agnostics.
Why do you think people stopped believing?
Does science prove everything to such a point that people can't believe in God anymore?
Is Organized Religion making people lose faith in God?
Those who choose to believe, do they actually believe, or do they fear to be alone?
How very strange then that Catholicism is very powerful in some of the less-well off areas of the world (South America)aj0404 wrote:
why did they stop believing?i think that one reason is because religion may make people feel guilty about doing things or make them feel obligated to do things they don't want to.they don't want to believe that they are being judged their whole lives,or maybe they believe religion is hypocritical.i myself am a catholic,but it seems sort of funny to me even that the catholic church preaches to give everything you have to the poor and that the poor are most valued,when in fact most catholics(the ones that go to my church at least) are very well off.i dunno,that's just my 2 cents.sergeriver wrote:
Today almost 1,2 billion persons are atheists or agnostics.
Why do you think people stopped believing?
Does science prove everything to such a point that people can't believe in God anymore?
Is Organized Religion making people lose faith in God?
Those who choose to believe, do they actually believe, or do they fear to be alone?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Anyone besides me notice how the currently "big" religions (Not counting atheism, which is a religion by the way according to the supreme court of the United States) appeared at least 1000 years ago. I think religion was a way to have ancient society be held together peacefully.
Think about it.
Example:
I'm a caveman. Youre a caveman. You bash in random peoples skulls. I want it to stop without bashing in your skull. I tell you "Because This higher being said so and if you dont, youll have more than a lifetime of agony."
i know its a bit extreme, but you get the point. Nowadays, people dont need to have religion. we have laws.
Im pretty sure religion was used first then laws. (look at the "Divine right" monarchs- they used religion to then make laws and set their societies up straight).
There are also all those religion-based states throughout history.
So, basically,
using religion to keep society in control is one way that religions have been used, but the main reason (IMO) they are becoming "outdated" by laws
Think about it.
Example:
I'm a caveman. Youre a caveman. You bash in random peoples skulls. I want it to stop without bashing in your skull. I tell you "Because This higher being said so and if you dont, youll have more than a lifetime of agony."
i know its a bit extreme, but you get the point. Nowadays, people dont need to have religion. we have laws.
Im pretty sure religion was used first then laws. (look at the "Divine right" monarchs- they used religion to then make laws and set their societies up straight).
There are also all those religion-based states throughout history.
So, basically,
using religion to keep society in control is one way that religions have been used, but the main reason (IMO) they are becoming "outdated" by laws
in most cases religion is good. it causes people to act in a decent compassionate way towards others. however it has also cause most wars, thousands of years of bigotry, hatred, discrimination, and well, an amount of deaths that noone could ever even concieve.
oops ! i took the BLUE PILL Damn !
What I'm reading here is awfully wrong. The proper explanations have been warped and twisted so they can easily be misinterpreted by someone who is just going to Wikipedia for "This religion says:----". Many have said they used to believe but that was long ago. It would take a lot more than any explanation I can provide to change your mind about this subject. I can tie you to a chair and shout the teachings of any religion, law, or crackpot hippie at you but if you have already developed your own opinion, no change will occur.
So I believe if you aren't really a strong follower of any non-atheist religion to begin with, you have no reason to continue following that.
So I believe if you aren't really a strong follower of any non-atheist religion to begin with, you have no reason to continue following that.
If I had born with 16 years old I never stop believing because I never had begun to believe.
But in your first years of life have many external cultural and religious influences that determine your beliefs.
These influences and the humanity supersticions and fears are the religion's "weapons".
But in your first years of life have many external cultural and religious influences that determine your beliefs.
These influences and the humanity supersticions and fears are the religion's "weapons".
When you are young you are told that the tooth fairy, Santa exist.
When you get a bit older and can make your own mind up you realise that actually the tooth fairy and Santa do not/ever have existed.
Just swap the tooth fairy/Santa for God.
When you get a bit older and can make your own mind up you realise that actually the tooth fairy and Santa do not/ever have existed.
Just swap the tooth fairy/Santa for God.
Exactly, religion is a coping mechanism for a world that can be quite bleak and grim at times.Suicidal wrote:
When you are young you are told that the tooth fairy, Santa exist.
When you get a bit older and can make your own mind up you realise that actually the tooth fairy and Santa do not/ever have existed.
Just swap the tooth fairy/Santa for God.
There are some thing that are ment for humans not to know.sergeriver wrote:
If that's the case why doesn't God tell us?stef10 wrote:
The science we know today is maybe only 10% of the science, that really is. Like we do not even know everything about the atom. Who knows what the smallets part is. Like what are quarkes made of and after that. What about blackholes. And do not start about the bullshit about us knowning how big the universe is. We do not know shit. Hell even our own mathsystem is fucked up in some areas.
I chose to believe a while ago that humans deserve more faith than some mystical being. Was once one of the faithful flock of christians. It's a wonderful life to lead, in a fantasy world where you can shut of reality and not have to deal with things by leaving it down to God but I had enough of being stupid.
Why should we need some arbitrary, barbaric and all powerful, supposedly "benevolent" BULLSHIT being to tell us what is good and what isn't?
There are good people and there are bad people. Choices define us. The time for superstition and stupidity is long past. GROW THE FUCK UP PEOPLE, LET GO OF YOUR SMALL MINDED SEGREGATIONIST PRACTICES. I am a product of my parents flesh and bone, and of my environment.
Not some jackoff who lives in a mythical place called heaven who likes to use us as sadistic entertainment.
@ The#1Spot, what, like the English language? THINGS, WITH AN S. STOP KILLING MY FUCKING LANGUAGE.
"God is an invention of good government." I disagree with that statement. It should read...
"God is an invention of government." Dues Ex Machina, one day, humans will create our own God. A very real God.
Not for a long time yet though.
Why should we need some arbitrary, barbaric and all powerful, supposedly "benevolent" BULLSHIT being to tell us what is good and what isn't?
There are good people and there are bad people. Choices define us. The time for superstition and stupidity is long past. GROW THE FUCK UP PEOPLE, LET GO OF YOUR SMALL MINDED SEGREGATIONIST PRACTICES. I am a product of my parents flesh and bone, and of my environment.
Not some jackoff who lives in a mythical place called heaven who likes to use us as sadistic entertainment.
@ The#1Spot, what, like the English language? THINGS, WITH AN S. STOP KILLING MY FUCKING LANGUAGE.
"God is an invention of good government." I disagree with that statement. It should read...
"God is an invention of government." Dues Ex Machina, one day, humans will create our own God. A very real God.
Not for a long time yet though.
Last edited by Flecco (2007-06-21 04:45:31)
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
A Nietzschean Superman perhaps?Flecco wrote:
I chose to believe a while ago that humans deserve more faith than some mystical being. Was once one of the faithful flock of christians. It's a wonderful life to lead, in a fantasy world where you can shut of reality and not have to deal with things by leaving it down to God but I had enough of being stupid.
Why should we need some arbitrary, barbaric and all powerful, supposedly "benevolent" BULLSHIT being to tell us what is good and what isn't?
There are good people and there are bad people. Choices define us. The time for superstition and stupidity is long past. GROW THE FUCK UP PEOPLE, LET GO OF YOUR SMALL MINDED SEGREGATIONIST PRACTICES. I am a product of my parents flesh and bone, and of my environment.
Not some jackoff who lives in a mythical place called heaven who likes to use us as sadistic entertainment.
@ The#1Spot, what, like the English language? THINGS, WITH AN S. STOP KILLING MY FUCKING LANGUAGE.
"God is an invention of good government." I disagree with that statement. It should read...
"God is an invention of government." Dues Ex Machina, one day, humans will create our own God. A very real God.
Not for a long time yet though.
discussion about this is futile. it doesnt matter if god exists or not, so it's a waste of resources thinking, arguing, fighting about this. this world is how it is, with or without god, we are trapped, and all that counts is us and us alone. so let us make this world a better place for us and not waste anything thinking about if this better world is in gods will.
as you see i'm not an atheist, im an apatheist.
as you see i'm not an atheist, im an apatheist.
why haven't we grasped the details of our universe by now? thats an ignorent question..Stingray24 wrote:
If we're truly the masters of our own destiny, why haven't we grasped the details of our universe by now? Because we have finite minds. We can't possibly fully understand the complete depth of our universe. All we have are scientific theories that are a feeble attempt to explain things in terms we can wrap our minds around.
why hadn't stem cell research been under development in the 1500s? because they were still learning the basic principles of science that we today take for granted (as well as the churches oppresion). we are learning science that will be common knowledge in 500 years and they would be developing ideas that would be completely beyond our ability. you know this is true because if your any older then 10 you can see with your own eyes the progression we have made in all facets of science. just because we haven't reached a point where we can understand more about the universe doesn't mean it can't happen.
how is trying to understand the universe any harder then trying to understand an unfathomable god with our "finite minds"? at least science attempts to explain something. it is progression. and religion is stagnent. if religion had its way we would still be stuck with four elements on the periodic table.
lol i already replied to this. oh well fuck it..
Last edited by twiistaaa (2007-06-21 06:01:15)
The "Ubermensch" yes... What I'm referring to is more the theme of the Dues Ex games. As technology progresses eventually humans will actually make a being so powerful/intelligent that it will be a god/demi-god.Braddock wrote:
A Nietzschean Superman perhaps?Flecco wrote:
I chose to believe a while ago that humans deserve more faith than some mystical being. Was once one of the faithful flock of Christians. It's a wonderful life to lead, in a fantasy world where you can shut of reality and not have to deal with things by leaving it down to God but I had enough of being stupid.
Why should we need some arbitrary, barbaric and all powerful, supposedly "benevolent" BULLSHIT being to tell us what is good and what isn't?
There are good people and there are bad people. Choices define us. The time for superstition and stupidity is long past. GROW THE FUCK UP PEOPLE, LET GO OF YOUR SMALL MINDED SEGREGATIONIST PRACTICES. I am a product of my parents flesh and bone, and of my environment.
Not some jack off who lives in a mythical place called heaven who likes to use us as sadistic entertainment.
@ The#1Spot, what, like the English language? THINGS, WITH AN S. STOP KILLING MY FUCKING LANGUAGE.
"God is an invention of good government." I disagree with that statement. It should read...
"God is an invention of government." Dues Ex Machina, one day, humans will create our own God. A very real God.
Not for a long time yet though.
It's possible....
and likely when you consider human stupidity.
Last edited by Flecco (2007-06-21 07:18:50)
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
but hopefully when/if we do that we will have the sense of mind to constrain it within it's circuitry and not connect it to the internet and have the terminators come after us.Flecco wrote:
The "Ubermensch" yes... What I'm referring to is more the theme of the Dues Ex games. As technology progresses eventually humans will actually make a being so powerful/intelligent that it will be a god/demi-god.
It's possible....
and likely when you consider human stupidity.
Unless we are really fucking stupid and give it arms and legs as well.
Not likely.Flecco wrote:
The "Ubermensch" yes... What I'm referring to is more the theme of the Dues Ex games. As technology progresses eventually humans will actually make a being so powerful/intelligent that it will be a god/demi-god.Braddock wrote:
A Nietzschean Superman perhaps?Flecco wrote:
I chose to believe a while ago that humans deserve more faith than some mystical being. Was once one of the faithful flock of Christians. It's a wonderful life to lead, in a fantasy world where you can shut of reality and not have to deal with things by leaving it down to God but I had enough of being stupid.
Why should we need some arbitrary, barbaric and all powerful, supposedly "benevolent" BULLSHIT being to tell us what is good and what isn't?
There are good people and there are bad people. Choices define us. The time for superstition and stupidity is long past. GROW THE FUCK UP PEOPLE, LET GO OF YOUR SMALL MINDED SEGREGATIONIST PRACTICES. I am a product of my parents flesh and bone, and of my environment.
Not some jack off who lives in a mythical place called heaven who likes to use us as sadistic entertainment.
@ The#1Spot, what, like the English language? THINGS, WITH AN S. STOP KILLING MY FUCKING LANGUAGE.
"God is an invention of good government." I disagree with that statement. It should read...
"God is an invention of government." Dues Ex Machina, one day, humans will create our own God. A very real God.
Not for a long time yet though.
It's possible....
and likely when you consider human stupidity.
The technological singularity is a myth. Myth of techo. God created by man, is not that much different than plain old myth of God.
As a group, or a collective (ever since the invention of a-bomb + ICBM), humans are already the Gods of their own collective destruction, figuratively speaking.
Last edited by topal63 (2007-06-21 09:48:13)
Why do people become Atheists? we are all born Atheists then religion is forced on them