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2006-12-04 11:11:32
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6782|PNW

CameronPoe wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6205128.stm

Hugo Chavez has been re-elected as leader of Venezuela to continue the fight against the gigantonormous gap in wealth between the poor downtrodden and the rich elite in his troubled nation. Discuss.
I wonder how much money Chavez has in his personal account(s)?

kr@cker wrote:

So chavez is a hero for dissenting against the "new globalization order".
US is evil for dissenting against the UN's globalization policy.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-12-04 11:15:15)

2006-12-04 15:33:50
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6566

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

I'm sure those elections weren't rigged...

LOL. Ignorance is bliss. Your ex-pres generally comes along to verify that the election was fair (Jimmy Carter) along with several thousand UN observers. What a lame insult at the democratic choice of the population of Venezuela. Nice to see Pollux is such a vocal supporter of the democratic process!!!

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-12-04 15:34:23)

2006-12-04 15:41:20
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6566

fadedsteve wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6205128.stm

Hugo Chavez has been re-elected as leader of Venezuela to continue the fight against the gigantonormous gap in wealth between the poor downtrodden and the rich elite in his troubled nation. Discuss.
Hardly, he is going to change that government into a dictatorship!! His idol is Fidel Castro for christs sake!  And I am sure an election in a 3rd world country has no voter fraud whatsoever. . . . .

Your socialist diatribe grows old! Everyone knows that guy is a fucking nut case!! His heart is NOT with the people in that country, is heart is lusting for absolute power P E R I O D!! Just keep your little liberal eye on whats about to transpire over there . . .
Not that it's ever pointful to counter a FadedSteve post but can I ask: have you ever been to Cuba? Have you any concept of what life is like there other than the shit you get thrown at you through your US-vision TV? Have you ever been to Latin America? Do you have any idea what the problem is with many Latin American nations?

The problem is corrupt government on the puppet strings of corporations. Go to any Latin American capital: gleaming skyscrapers the likes of which will awe and inspire you. But what's this? Slums with abject poverty the likes of which you have no concept of but a few blocks away!!!! I smell a rat!!

I worry that Chavez is too hard line but the fact of the matter is that Latin America must take back their continent from those that destory the society there. That continent should be as peaceful and progressive as Europe, the closest to socialist perfection currently on display on earth (particularly Scandinavia), but despite its resources corruption and external influence have fucked the continent so much it almost needs to start from scratch. I'm sorry but your capitalist economic model doesn't work in a continent so fucked.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-12-04 15:43:01)

2006-12-04 15:50:14
EVieira
Member
+105|6489|Lutenblaag, Molvania
Chavez is living on the wrong decade. There is no cold war anymore, his idealism has died a long time ago, the mercy shot being fired in 1989 with the fall of the Berlin Wall.

He was supposed to make the deep social reforms his nation desperately needs, and so far in 8 year's hasn't delivered much. What he has done is greatly weakened Venezuelan economy, with GDP actually being negative in some periods.

Venezuela is democracy at its worst. The vast majority of Venezuelans are poor, uneducated and what little information they have comes from the state run television, where Chavez is their star. Its not too hard to win an election like this.

Last edited by EVieira (2006-12-04 15:50:48)

"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)
2006-12-04 15:56:53
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6566

EVieira wrote:

Chavez is living on the wrong decade. There is no cold war anymore, his idealism has died a long time ago, the mercy shot being fired in 1989 with the fall of the Berlin Wall.

He was supposed to make the deep social reforms his nation desperately needs, and so far in 8 year's hasn't delivered much. What he has done is greatly weakened Venezuelan economy, with GDP actually being negative in some periods.

Venezuela is democracy at its worst. The vast majority of Venezuelans are poor, uneducated and what little information they have comes from the state run television, where Chavez is their star. Its not too hard to win an election like this.
The poverty and lack of education is a legacy of the past of Venezuela, something which has been improved upon significantly since he was elected. He does exercise too much control over the media that is true but the problems existing in Venezuela, and a great many other Latin American nations, will take a damn sight more than 8 years to fix. Having said that, I do think he is over the top.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-12-04 15:57:08)

2006-12-04 16:11:32
EVieira
Member
+105|6489|Lutenblaag, Molvania
He is also one of the biggest hypocrites I've ever seen. He is always criticizing the US, but knows damn well Venezuela depends enormously on the US buying its oil. He makes high praises to Lula, but uses the Bolivian-Brazil energy disputes to wield more power over Bolivia.

Latin America does need some strong leaders, some true statesmen, to challenge foreign domination and take on the challenge of social reforms, going against the elites that rule. But Chavez just talks much more than the accomplishes. Too much old-style propaganda for me...
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)
2006-12-04 16:35:52
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6657

CameronPoe wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

I'm sure those elections weren't rigged...

LOL. Ignorance is bliss. Your ex-pres generally comes along to verify that the election was fair (Jimmy Carter) along with several thousand UN observers. What a lame insult at the democratic choice of the population of Venezuela. Nice to see Pollux is such a vocal supporter of the democratic process!!!
It is common knowledge that Chavez rigged his last election, so it would be safe to assume that this one was rigged as well. That is what I call logic, not ignorance. You, on the other hand, think otherwise and support Chavez simply because he screamed that Bush is "the devil" in a childish display in front of the UN. Don't talk about us being brainwashed by the "evil conservative media" when your entire argument is based on propaganda that Chavez has spoon-fed his people.

CameronPoe wrote:

I'm sorry but your capitalist economic model doesn't work in a continent so fucked.
Because you know better than everyone else and those involved in the government, right? Your liberal mindset and perception of reality is so skewed it is laughable.

There is not a single person in this thread who is agreeing with you.
2006-12-04 16:41:53
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6566

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

I'm sure those elections weren't rigged...

LOL. Ignorance is bliss. Your ex-pres generally comes along to verify that the election was fair (Jimmy Carter) along with several thousand UN observers. What a lame insult at the democratic choice of the population of Venezuela. Nice to see Pollux is such a vocal supporter of the democratic process!!!
It is common knowledge that Chavez rigged his last election, so it would be safe to assume that this one was rigged as well. That is what I call logic, not ignorance. You, on the other hand, think otherwise and support Chavez simply because he screamed that Bush is "the devil" in a childish display in front of the UN. Don't talk about us being brainwashed by the "evil conservative media" when your entire argument is based on propaganda that Chavez has spoon-fed his people.
I don't support Chavez. I support Latin America taking some other direction. I am wary of what Chavez plans for the country. All I know is that change from the status quo is good.

Are you discrediting your own ex-president? Because Jimmy Carter and several thousand UN observers verified that the last election was free and fair.

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I'm sorry but your capitalist economic model doesn't work in a continent so fucked.
Because you know better than everyone else and those involved in the government, right? Your liberal mindset and perception of reality is so skewed it is laughable.

There is not a single person in this thread who is agreeing with you.
Pollux you're so insular - have you ever been to anywhere outside USA? If you have been to a Latin American capital you'll know that something is REALLY REALLY wrong. The brand of capitalism you probably peddle is the problem there. Controlled capitalism is the way forward.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-12-04 16:42:12)

2006-12-04 16:47:25
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6657

CameronPoe wrote:

Are you discrediting your own ex-president? Because Jimmy Carter and several thousand UN observers verified that the last election was free and fair.
Yes. It is speculated that Jimmy Carter helped Chavez rig his last election.
2006-12-04 16:51:40
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6566

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Are you discrediting your own ex-president? Because Jimmy Carter and several thousand UN observers verified that the last election was free and fair.
Yes. It is speculated that Jimmy Carter helped Chavez rig his last election.
LOL
2006-12-04 16:59:12
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6657

CameronPoe wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Are you discrediting your own ex-president? Because Jimmy Carter and several thousand UN observers verified that the last election was free and fair.
Yes. It is speculated that Jimmy Carter helped Chavez rig his last election.
LOL
I could probably find more credible sources but this is what a quick google search turned up:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/article … 1240.shtml

http://hotair.com/archives/2006/09/22/gracias-jimmy/

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006 … 3504.shtml

I find it interesting that the EU didn't participate because the election was rigged so far in advance.
2006-12-04 17:01:34
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6566

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Yes. It is speculated that Jimmy Carter helped Chavez rig his last election.
LOL
I could probably find more credible sources but this is what a quick google search turned up:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/article … 1240.shtml

http://hotair.com/archives/2006/09/22/gracias-jimmy/

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006 … 3504.shtml

I find it interesting that the EU didn't participate because the election was rigged so far in advance.
OMG I implore everyone to read the links Pollux posted!!! Hilarious. In the opening line of one of them they refer to Chavez as Castro's 'stooge'. Professional journalism. Fair and balanced. We report. You decide. The most trusted name in news. LOL.

hotair.com!!! Fucking hell.


READ THESE LINKS PEOPLE. RESPECTABLE SOURCES ARE HERE TO STAY.

PS Find something from Reuters, AP, BBC or something pleeeeaaaasssseeee.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-12-04 17:03:31)

2006-12-04 17:02:42
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6378|Columbus, Ohio

CameronPoe wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:


LOL
I could probably find more credible sources but this is what a quick google search turned up:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/article … 1240.shtml

http://hotair.com/archives/2006/09/22/gracias-jimmy/

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006 … 3504.shtml

I find it interesting that the EU didn't participate because the election was rigged so far in advance.
OMG I implore everyone to read the links Pollux posted!!! Hilarious. In the opening line of one of them they refer to Chavez as Castro's 'stooge'. Professional journalism. Fair and balanced. We report. You decide. The most trusted name in news. LOL.
So, only BBC is credible?  Everyone else is lying?
2006-12-04 17:04:54
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6566

usmarine2007 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:


I could probably find more credible sources but this is what a quick google search turned up:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/article … 1240.shtml

http://hotair.com/archives/2006/09/22/gracias-jimmy/

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006 … 3504.shtml

I find it interesting that the EU didn't participate because the election was rigged so far in advance.
OMG I implore everyone to read the links Pollux posted!!! Hilarious. In the opening line of one of them they refer to Chavez as Castro's 'stooge'. Professional journalism. Fair and balanced. We report. You decide. The most trusted name in news. LOL.
So, only BBC is credible?  Everyone else is lying?
They're opinion sites he posted - not news sites. Shit I could open a site of my own tomorrow and post whatever drivel I wanted and someone could use it as a 'source'.
2006-12-04 17:07:25
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6657
You're borderline eccentric now, and no one in your thread agrees with you. Quoting me in your sig isn't going to change that. Notice how I said "It is speculated that..." not that "I believe that..."? I even acknowledged that the links I provided weren't the most credible sources.
2006-12-04 17:08:06
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6378|Columbus, Ohio

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

You're borderline eccentric now, and no one in your thread agrees with you. Quoting me in your sig isn't going to change that. Notice how I said "It is speculated that..." not that "I believe that..."? I even acknowledged that the links I provided weren't the most credible sources.
He misses IRONCHEF.
2006-12-04 17:10:12
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6566

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

You're borderline eccentric now, and no one in your thread agrees with you. Quoting me in your sig isn't going to change that. Notice how I said "It is speculated that..." not that "I believe that..."? I even acknowledged that the links I provided weren't the most credible sources.
I'm sorry but I don't view those sources as credible, as you hinted they mightn't be. If I post something that supports my case it will be hard fact, not baseless opinion, because I know that my argument is shafted the moment I post it - because there are many intelligent people on this forum.

Re sig: I quoted you directly. We'll let people make up their own minds what you meant/implied. It's not like it's out of context either - it was a standalone comment.

What exactly is there in my posts in this thread that people must agree/disagree with?

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-12-04 17:12:47)

2006-12-04 17:11:16
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6566

usmarine2007 wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

You're borderline eccentric now, and no one in your thread agrees with you. Quoting me in your sig isn't going to change that. Notice how I said "It is speculated that..." not that "I believe that..."? I even acknowledged that the links I provided weren't the most credible sources.
He misses IRONCHEF.
LOL. Childish arguments FTW.
2006-12-04 17:11:47
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6378|Columbus, Ohio

CameronPoe wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

You're borderline eccentric now, and no one in your thread agrees with you. Quoting me in your sig isn't going to change that. Notice how I said "It is speculated that..." not that "I believe that..."? I even acknowledged that the links I provided weren't the most credible sources.
He misses IRONCHEF.
LOL. Childish arguments FTW.
Don't even start.
2006-12-04 17:13:26
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6657

CameronPoe wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

You're borderline eccentric now, and no one in your thread agrees with you. Quoting me in your sig isn't going to change that. Notice how I said "It is speculated that..." not that "I believe that..."? I even acknowledged that the links I provided weren't the most credible sources.
I'm sorry but I don't view those sources as credible, as you hinted they mightn't be. If I post something that supports my case it will be hard fact, not baseless opinion, because I know that my argument is shafted the moment I post it - because there are many intelligent people on this forum.

What exactly is there in my posts in this thread that people must agree/disagree with?
I provided proof to my claim that "There is speculation that...", nothing more. Credible or not, those sources support that claim. It is a fact that there is speculation that Jimmy Carter helped rig the last Chavez election. I did not say, nor believe he actually did so. I only claimed that the speculation that he did exists. It is a simple matter of reading comprehension. I'm sorry you weren't able to make that distinction.
2006-12-04 17:15:40
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6566

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

You're borderline eccentric now, and no one in your thread agrees with you. Quoting me in your sig isn't going to change that. Notice how I said "It is speculated that..." not that "I believe that..."? I even acknowledged that the links I provided weren't the most credible sources.
I'm sorry but I don't view those sources as credible, as you hinted they mightn't be. If I post something that supports my case it will be hard fact, not baseless opinion, because I know that my argument is shafted the moment I post it - because there are many intelligent people on this forum.

What exactly is there in my posts in this thread that people must agree/disagree with?
I provided proof to my claim that "There is speculation that...", nothing more. Credible or not, those sources support that claim. It is a fact that there is speculation that Jimmy Carter helped rig the last Chavez election. I did not say, nor believe he actually did so. I only claimed that the speculation that he did exists. It is a simple matter of reading comprehension. I'm sorry you weren't able to make that distinction.
There is speculation that there is a man on the moon. There is speculation that Iran wants nuclear weapons. There is speculation that Tom Cruise is gay. There is speculation that 9/11 was an inside job.

It's easy to speculate. Providing 'proof that there is speculation' is spectacularly redundant. I can provide proof that there is speculation that aliens exist. Read my edited post above.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-12-04 17:17:29)

2006-12-04 17:25:13
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6657

CameronPoe wrote:

It's easy to speculate. Providing 'proof that there is speculation' is spectacularly redundant. I can provide proof that there is speculation that aliens exist. Read my edited post above.
That's great, but irrelevant. My claims were correct. Being redundant != being incorrect.

CameronPoe wrote:

Most of the country? LOL. Less than 40% represents a minority, in case you haven't heard.

Get over yourself - you're obviously from the do-nothing landed classes of Venezuelan society, getting rich off the misery of others. I've been to Latin America several times and it's patently obvious how the system works over there - perpetuation of the gap between rich and poor.
Also, visiting a country != being an expert on it. It is pretty pathetic when your best attempt at a counterpoint provides only an assertion at best, and one that is a borderline personal attack. There are people who live in the region or have family that do, but they're wrong regardless simply because you've been to Latin America? I'm sorry, but they have far more credibility than you do if you insist on using your visits to the country as reason for credibility. You seem to have adopted this over-inflated sense of self-worth and importance and it is quite apparent in many of your posts as of late.

Last edited by Fancy_Pollux (2006-12-04 17:39:33)

2006-12-04 17:27:23
TeamZephyr
Maintaining My Rage Since 1975
+124|6540|Hillside, Melbourne, Australia
Carter helped Chavez rig the election?

Oh for fucks sake please, the Venezuelan people voted for Chavez, thats something you guys will have to accept, democracy isn't something that you can bend for your own will.

Stop trying to point the completely false point that Chavez rigged the election and that Jimmy Carter helped him do it.

If I "speculated" that Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney blew up the WTC and showed some "speculative" articles from Communist Party newspapers I'd be a nutjob and a wacky pinko. But you can claim that free and fair elections were rigged and provide a couple of links from right wing think tanks and thats ok.

Accept it: He Won, he DEMOCRATICALLY gained the right to rule Venezuela until his term expires.
2006-12-04 17:47:34
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6657

TeamZephyr wrote:

Carter helped Chavez rig the election?

Oh for fucks sake please, the Venezuelan people voted for Chavez, thats something you guys will have to accept, democracy isn't something that you can bend for your own will.

Stop trying to point the completely false point that Chavez rigged the election and that Jimmy Carter helped him do it.

If I "speculated" that Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney blew up the WTC and showed some "speculative" articles from Communist Party newspapers I'd be a nutjob and a wacky pinko. But you can claim that free and fair elections were rigged and provide a couple of links from right wing think tanks and thats ok.

Accept it: He Won, he DEMOCRATICALLY gained the right to rule Venezuela until his term expires.
I didn't speculate that Carter helped rig the election. I only claimed that speculation on the matter existed and showed examples of it. I did not say that the sources were credible nor correct in what they speculated. You are only wasting your breath trying to blow it up into something it's not.

With that in mind, I think one would have to be living in a clouded dreamworld to actually believe that the election was not rigged. Saying Chavez was democratically elected is like saying Saddam was democratically elected. Of course you're going to disagree with me no matter what because you have been a self-proclaimed communist on these forums. Your hilarious defense of Cuba and the Soviets in the Cuban missile crisis thread comes to mind. As for CameronPoe, he is aligned one way and nothing will change that. He will always be anti-US or anything the US stands for, regardless of how ridiculous of a claim he would have to make to support his argument. His comments on the Marshall Plan come to mind. This forum is so predictable it's sad.

Last edited by Fancy_Pollux (2006-12-04 17:48:58)

2006-12-05 01:07:59
Sh1fty2k5
MacSwedish
+113|6721|Sweden
Why dont you guys start discussing your own (US) rigged election?

 

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