BF2S Forums English Historian says "Hitler was defeated by the Russians"

As I said before the Americans primary role was the Pacific Theater.

lowing wrote:

Vilham wrote:

lowing wrote:

"How we didn't win the war . . . but the Russians did"............<---------the title of the article..........and it is bullshit.


There could be made an argument that said without the JEEP or the DUCK, or the MUSTANG, the war would have been lost. Give credit where credit is due I agree, but to state the Soviets WON the WAR for the ALLIES is bullshit. If you are tired of posting in this thread move the on.

Im simply pointing out your a fool. Most people have realised that and have moved on as I am after this post, you are arguing against a the majority of military historians view. As to the title... the author didn't write it did he so if the title is misleading as to what his book says who gives a fly fuck. Stop and think for one second would you please, you are arguing about something that the author didn't write and claiming he did. One word. Fool.

"The Americans arrived too late and in too few numbers to play the dominant role. The forces of democracy played their part in the defeat of fascism, but were left controlling less than half the continent. In the greater part of Europe one totalitarian tyranny was replaced by another. More often than not, the rhetoric of “freedom” and “liberation” was misplaced. "

The Americans were too late in entering the war to do any good. lets see, the Soviets and Germany started up in summer of '41 and America entered the war in fall of '41........Yeah we were too late......Not to mention the contributions of the American Merchant Marines  starting in 1939.

If your only argument is."you're a fool"..........then move your ass down the road junior.

Russia and Germany started the war in 1939 when both invaded Poland.  Germany took between 1939 and 1941 Poland, Netherlands, Yugoslavia, Norway and France (I'm sure forgetting someone).  In the same period Russia invaded several Baltic Republics, including Finland.  The Japs invaded China before all of these, and US didn't enter the war until Pearl Harbor.  In 1941, Germany invaded Russia and that is the moment where Hitler lost the war.  The Pacific Theatre has nothing to do with Russia.  So, saying that Hitler was mostly defeated by Russia isn't wrong IMO.  Give the Russians some credit.

{BMF}*Frank_The_Tank wrote:

Hmm....well, of course living in the states, I grew up always being told throughout my history classes that the Nazis controlled Europe, and met most resistance from the Soviets.  But I think I remember the Nazis actually occupying quite a bit of Soviet land.  If the US, UK, Canadian and Australian forces had not done the D-Day invasion, nor got too involved (by this I mean the UK defending their land, and the US not getting into it), the Nazis would have had alot more forces to fight the Soviets with, which could have, and probably would have had a much different outcome.

I believe the US, UK, Canada and Australia deserve just as much credit as the Soviets do.  If it werent for all of us, the Soviets would have collapsed most likely (no pun intended, because they did anyway later on).

And because of this -

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

Mmm, yes Britain and thre US do deserve credit because they were also fighting a war with Germany on one of a few fronts.

The US and UK were fighting on more than just one front.  North Africa and Italy were some major points of battle as well.

Frank, I completely disagree with you on your point of view. Before I go anywhere, I do agree that ALL ALLIES deserve a the same amount of credit for WWII. However, D-DAY was not the turning point in the war. D-DAY happened as I can recall in 1944. At that point Soviets were already marching towards Germany and Germany was in full retreat. Believe it or not, the turning battle in that war was "The Battle For Stalingrad". That is when The Red Army turned around and pushed the Germans into retreat. Now America, even though was not fighting the Germans until June 6, 1944, has been a big part in regards of how much they loaned to Russia and other allied countries. I believe the figure was 60 billion worth of Steel, metal, copper, etc. Britain, also deserves a lot of credit for holding the forces on European land and defending their homeland and never giving up. So do other countries who stood up to the Nazi regime.
Anyway, that is my belief based on facts.

Now Italy and Austria. I am sorry, but those 2 countries were very minor players in the war. They fought for Africa, but without Hitler and the German Armies, Italy would have crumbled really fast.

lowing wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

lowing wrote:

"The Americans arrived too late and in too few numbers to play the dominant role. The forces of democracy played their part in the defeat of fascism, but were left controlling less than half the continent. In the greater part of Europe one totalitarian tyranny was replaced by another. More often than not, the rhetoric of “freedom” and “liberation” was misplaced. "

The Americans were too late in entering the war to do any good. lets see, the Soviets and Germany started up in summer of '41 and America entered the war in fall of '41........Yeah we were too late......Not to mention the contributions of the American Merchant Marines  starting in 1939.

If your only argument is."you're a fool"..........then move your ass down the road junior.

Russia and Germany started the war in 1939 when both invaded Poland.  Germany took between 1939 and 1941 Poland, Netherlands, Yugoslavia, Norway and France (I'm sure forgetting someone).  In the same period Russia invaded several Baltic Republics, including Finland.  The Japs invaded China before all of these, and US didn't enter the war until Pearl Harbor.  In 1941, Germany invaded Russia and that is the moment where Hitler lost the war.  The Pacific Theatre has nothing to do with Russia.  So, saying that Hitler was mostly defeated by Russia isn't wrong IMO.  Give the Russians some credit.

I give them credit, I cite the date of summer '41 as when the Soviets became an ally.

My only point is and you just acknowledged it, was, the Soviets were not MAINLY responsible for winning the war. YOu can argue all ya want that they are responsible for defeating Germany. I will of course disagree, but at least you have valid points to that argument.

Even in the movies all you see about the WWII is how the D-Day marked the fall of Hitler, when at that time Hitler had already lost the war.  How many Hollywood movies about the Battle of Stalingrad are there?

Last edited by sergeriver (2006-12-10 05:36:25)

lowing wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

lowing wrote:

I give them credit, I cite the date of summer '41 as when the Soviets became an ally.

My only point is and you just acknowledged it, was, the Soviets were not MAINLY responsible for winning the war. YOu can argue all ya want that they are responsible for defeating Germany. I will of course disagree, but at least you have valid points to that argument.

Even in the movies all you see about the WWII is how the D-Day marked the fall of Hitler, when at that time Hitler had already lost the war.  How many Hollywood movies about the Battle of Stalingrad are there?

Enemy at the Gates I think is one.

The movies I am thinking of, were movies specific battles, NOT the Soviets war.

Also, I will not give the MAJORITY of the credit for "defeating Hitler" to the Soviets, who actually HELPED him start the damn war.

Finally, a valid good point.  Nobody said it before you, and I wasn't going to mention it.  Lol.  Of course they started it all.  But, Hitler decided he wanted to fight against everybody, and he lost the war.

lowing wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

lowing wrote:

Enemy at the Gates I think is one.

The movies I am thinking of, were movies specific battles, NOT the Soviets war.

Also, I will not give the MAJORITY of the credit for "defeating Hitler" to the Soviets, who actually HELPED him start the damn war.

Finally, a valid good point.  Nobody said it before you, and I wasn't going to mention it.  Lol.  Of course they started it all.  But, Hitler decided he wanted to fight against everybody, and he lost the war.

did I win a cookie?? lol

You just won a ticket for an Al Gore conference about Global Warming.

If the US wasn't involved, Japan could of invaded Russia from Manchuria. Then, Russia would be gang banged.

thats just wrong, poisoning perfectly good liquor.

Vilham wrote:

TeamZephyr wrote:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c … ermany.jpg

Win. But don't try convincing Lowing, he doesn't agree with people that spent their whole lives studying the field of WWII military history. He magically knows more than all of them combined.

Lowing I suggest you actually read the book rather than some article some guy wrote about it that probably doesn't correctly convey what the book says.

The US had planned t odrop into Berlin but for the lack of a politically correct phrase, decided to let the Russians die for it, since it was already decided what was t ohappen to Germany after the war.

Showing me ONE flag over Berlin is not quite as impressive as showing the flags of GB and the US, flying over the cities of Africa, Italy, Holland, Phillipines, China,  ALL of the fucking Pacific Islands, Flags flying on the ships that controlled the Atlantic and Pacific, flags on the tails of the fucking airplanes that had air superiority over ALL OF THE WORLD.

I read the article not the book, it was the article that was posted...........For you to lecture me on reading the book you damned well had better have read the fuckin' thing yourself.


I thought you were done here junior??...........Anyway, your turn

Sinyukov wrote:

{BMF}*Frank_The_Tank wrote:

Hmm....well, of course living in the states, I grew up always being told throughout my history classes that the Nazis controlled Europe, and met most resistance from the Soviets.  But I think I remember the Nazis actually occupying quite a bit of Soviet land.  If the US, UK, Canadian and Australian forces had not done the D-Day invasion, nor got too involved (by this I mean the UK defending their land, and the US not getting into it), the Nazis would have had alot more forces to fight the Soviets with, which could have, and probably would have had a much different outcome.

I believe the US, UK, Canada and Australia deserve just as much credit as the Soviets do.  If it werent for all of us, the Soviets would have collapsed most likely (no pun intended, because they did anyway later on).

And because of this -

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

Mmm, yes Britain and thre US do deserve credit because they were also fighting a war with Germany on one of a few fronts.

The US and UK were fighting on more than just one front.  North Africa and Italy were some major points of battle as well.

Frank, I completely disagree with you on your point of view. Before I go anywhere, I do agree that ALL ALLIES deserve a the same amount of credit for WWII. However, D-DAY was not the turning point in the war. D-DAY happened as I can recall in 1944. At that point Soviets were already marching towards Germany and Germany was in full retreat. Believe it or not, the turning battle in that war was "The Battle For Stalingrad". That is when The Red Army turned around and pushed the Germans into retreat. Now America, even though was not fighting the Germans until June 6, 1944, has been a big part in regards of how much they loaned to Russia and other allied countries. I believe the figure was 60 billion worth of Steel, metal, copper, etc. Britain, also deserves a lot of credit for holding the forces on European land and defending their homeland and never giving up. So do other countries who stood up to the Nazi regime.
Anyway, that is my belief based on facts.

Now Italy and Austria. I am sorry, but those 2 countries were very minor players in the war. They fought for Africa, but without Hitler and the German Armies, Italy would have crumbled really fast.

you stated, that the Americans hadnt fought hte germans until d-day, what about the us divisions that fought in the african theater, and the itialian theatre. and sicily (mostly itialian troops there).

11sog_raider wrote:

Sinyukov wrote:

{BMF}*Frank_The_Tank wrote:

Hmm....well, of course living in the states, I grew up always being told throughout my history classes that the Nazis controlled Europe, and met most resistance from the Soviets.  But I think I remember the Nazis actually occupying quite a bit of Soviet land.  If the US, UK, Canadian and Australian forces had not done the D-Day invasion, nor got too involved (by this I mean the UK defending their land, and the US not getting into it), the Nazis would have had alot more forces to fight the Soviets with, which could have, and probably would have had a much different outcome.

I believe the US, UK, Canada and Australia deserve just as much credit as the Soviets do.  If it werent for all of us, the Soviets would have collapsed most likely (no pun intended, because they did anyway later on).

And because of this -


The US and UK were fighting on more than just one front.  North Africa and Italy were some major points of battle as well.

Frank, I completely disagree with you on your point of view. Before I go anywhere, I do agree that ALL ALLIES deserve a the same amount of credit for WWII. However, D-DAY was not the turning point in the war. D-DAY happened as I can recall in 1944. At that point Soviets were already marching towards Germany and Germany was in full retreat. Believe it or not, the turning battle in that war was "The Battle For Stalingrad". That is when The Red Army turned around and pushed the Germans into retreat. Now America, even though was not fighting the Germans until June 6, 1944, has been a big part in regards of how much they loaned to Russia and other allied countries. I believe the figure was 60 billion worth of Steel, metal, copper, etc. Britain, also deserves a lot of credit for holding the forces on European land and defending their homeland and never giving up. So do other countries who stood up to the Nazi regime.
Anyway, that is my belief based on facts.

Now Italy and Austria. I am sorry, but those 2 countries were very minor players in the war. They fought for Africa, but without Hitler and the German Armies, Italy would have crumbled really fast.

you stated, that the Americans hadnt fought hte germans until d-day, what about the us divisions that fought in the african theater, and the itialian theatre. and sicily (mostly itialian troops there).

Also the surviving aircrews that fought and saw their friends die over the skies of Europe before D-Day probably would like to educate him.