Doperwt.
Anouk, Slayers little bitch
+80|6416|Belgium

America shouldn't develop biological weapons, because:

1) their gouvernment is still at war with Iraq and Afghanistan. The Americans have already proven they can't handle WMD (see japan WW II and Vietnamwar)  The USA government is trying to gain power and control in countries around the globe and with a leverage of biological weapons the sky is the limit for them.

2) like elamdri said you can't defend yourself against them

this sounds off topic but let's go:

Who said 9/11 was the last act by a bunch of terrorists on American soil.
the americans knew both times (pearharbor and 9/11 that they were going to be attacked, but didn't knew what to both times because they never have fought a war on their own soil. So even if they know how biological weapons work, there still will be allot of cacualities
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6389|Columbus, Ohio

Doperwt. wrote:

America shouldn't develop biological weapons, because:

1) their gouvernment is still at war with Iraq and Afghanistan. The Americans have already proven they can't handle WMD (see japan WW II and Vietnamwar)  The USA government is trying to gain power and control in countries around the globe and with a leverage of biological weapons the sky is the limit for them.

2) like elamdri said you can't defend yourself against them

this sounds off topic but let's go:

Who said 9/11 was the last act by a bunch of terrorists on American soil.
the americans knew both times (pearharbor and 9/11 that they were going to be attacked, but didn't knew what to both times because they never have fought a war on their own soil. So even if they know how biological weapons work, there still will be allot of cacualities
What the fuck are you on?
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6513|Northern California
Here we go.. This is the warfare we should be wary of.  EMP warfare is the easiest way to destroy a country.

Imagine a single bomb entering high airspace over the middle of our country, bursting and emmitting an EMP wave that destroyed the ability to function in every telephone, computer, vehicle, television, broadcasting station, light, and any other electrical device.  Imagine being in sent back 120 years in the blink of an eye.  lol  Nothing could be worse..unless biological agents could likewise "instantly" blanket every inch of air we breath.  And EMP warfare is 38 years old...
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6603|SE London

Elamdri wrote:

Protection against a bioweapon is kinda pointless. The point of a bioweapon is to make a germ so deadly you can't protect against it.

And here's the worst part. Even if the US is doing this to try and find a defense, that would be TERRIBLE, because it means the US would have the ability to prevent that weapon from being used against it's population, but could use it against others without fear.
Yet another of the reasons why research in this field is illegal.
Wolfren
Member
+6|6686|USA
Heh you think this is new weve been working with bioweapons to find safety measures for more than 50 years now. They just want to build a new and more safe place to do it.
Wolfren
Member
+6|6686|USA

Doperwt. wrote:

America shouldn't develop biological weapons, because:

1) their gouvernment is still at war with Iraq and Afghanistan. The Americans have already proven they can't handle WMD (see japan WW II and Vietnamwar)  The USA government is trying to gain power and control in countries around the globe and with a leverage of biological weapons the sky is the limit for them.

2) like elamdri said you can't defend yourself against them

this sounds off topic but let's go:

Who said 9/11 was the last act by a bunch of terrorists on American soil.
the americans knew both times (pearharbor and 9/11 that they were going to be attacked, but didn't knew what to both times because they never have fought a war on their own soil. So even if they know how biological weapons work, there still will be allot of cacualities
And thats just crazy talk. We had no idea we would be attacked. I dont know what people are talking about when they say even Bush knew about 9/11 because he could have just as easily just have captured them and got them to tell what they planned to hit. Which would have gotten us up in arms too. Besides why would they have hit the twin towers if they planned it why not something that was not a symbol for our country and a place of business for the US government. And as for pearl harbor what are you thinking if we new we going to be attacked why were we caught so off guard there is no need to just sit back and let them attack we were at war the second they crossed into our waters.
BVC
Member
+325|6717
"Iran, we think you're building nukes, you're naughty.  Bioweapons?  Never!  We're trying to...uhh...steal the vegemite recipe from the Aussies!"
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6513|Northern California
Wolf, in August 6, 2001, Bush held in his hand an important and specific breifing that should have indicated that Osama bin Laden was going to attack his country.  He had precedent (cole, african embassies, WTC) enough to judge it seriously..but he did nothing but sit on his ass and pretend to work on his ranch while staying on vacation.

There's many other conspiracies that suggest he knew it, or something similar would come, but just the fact that he knew on August 6th that something grave was in the mix...he failed.

Pearl Harbor was no conspiracy...it's known that FDR knew it was coming..he relied on it because he needed war.
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6389|Columbus, Ohio

Pubic wrote:

"Iran, we think you're building nukes, you're naughty.  Bioweapons?  Never!  We're trying to...uhh...steal the vegemite recipe from the Aussies!"
We never did hide the fact we research these things.  It has been going on for a long time.
mr.hrundi
Wurstwassereis
+68|6459|Germany
i dont understand all that "we need more weapons of mass destruction"-bullshit.

just imagine any country would fire one off to another country. the attacked country (or it's allies) would shoot back. the first country would now fire another missile or two which will be answered by even more from other countries. with the approximately existing 40000 nukes and all biological and chemical weapons this would go on forever, but.........


no one will notice because everyone is dead.
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6603|SE London

mr.hrundi wrote:

i dont understand all that "we need more weapons of mass destruction"-bullshit.

just imagine any country would fire one off to another country. the attacked country (or it's allies) would shoot back. the first country would now fire another missile or two which will be answered by even more from other countries. with the approximately existing 40000 nukes and all biological and chemical weapons this would go on forever, but.........


no one will notice because everyone is dead.
That's not my objection to it. If the US submitted it's case to international courts and asked for permission to do research that is in breach of treaties they have ratified and were granted permission, then I'd be all for biological weapons research. The fact is they won't, they just consider themselves to be above international law - that is what bothers me about it.

Breaking treaties because you can get away with it is no way to run a government.
topthrill05
Member
+125|6600|Rochester NY USA

herrr_smity wrote:

grate make a new dooms day weapon, i guess nukes aren't good enuff
Do you understand why we are doing this? Let me explain.

Some nice people on this earth would like every American dead and would do so by any means. By us researching these bio weapons we can better protect ourselves from a bio terrorist attack.

Living in Norway you might not fully grasp the clear fact that alot of people want us dead. So please save the "Dooms day" weapon bull shit for another time and place where it might not make you look like an ignorant fool.
topthrill05
Member
+125|6600|Rochester NY USA

IRONCHEF wrote:

Wolf, in August 6, 2001, Bush held in his hand an important and specific breifing that should have indicated that Osama bin Laden was going to attack his country.  He had precedent (cole, african embassies, WTC) enough to judge it seriously..but he did nothing but sit on his ass and pretend to work on his ranch while staying on vacation.

There's many other conspiracies that suggest he knew it, or something similar would come, but just the fact that he knew on August 6th that something grave was in the mix...he failed.

Pearl Harbor was no conspiracy...it's known that FDR knew it was coming..he relied on it because he needed war.
Do we really need this debate on this thread? That topic alone is like a bio weapon to threads.
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6603|SE London

topthrill05 wrote:

herrr_smity wrote:

grate make a new dooms day weapon, i guess nukes aren't good enuff
Do you understand why we are doing this? Let me explain.

Some nice people on this earth would like every American dead and would do so by any means. By us researching these bio weapons we can better protect ourselves from a bio terrorist attack.

Living in Norway you might not fully grasp the clear fact that alot of people want us dead. So please save the "Dooms day" weapon bull shit for another time and place where it might not make you look like an ignorant fool.
Don't you think you might be better off addressing why many people in the world want Americans dead? It's not a jealousy thing, it's because American foreign policy is shit and because of America's arrogance in situations just like this. Doing more research into biological weapons in breach of treaties the US have signed is exactly the type of reason people get pissed off at America.
Doperwt.
Anouk, Slayers little bitch
+80|6416|Belgium

Wolfren wrote:

Doperwt. wrote:

America shouldn't develop biological weapons, because:

1) their gouvernment is still at war with Iraq and Afghanistan. The Americans have already proven they can't handle WMD (see japan WW II and Vietnamwar)  The USA government is trying to gain power and control in countries around the globe and with a leverage of biological weapons the sky is the limit for them.

2) like elamdri said you can't defend yourself against them

this sounds off topic but let's go:

Who said 9/11 was the last act by a bunch of terrorists on American soil.
the americans knew both times (pearharbor and 9/11 that they were going to be attacked, but didn't knew what to both times because they never have fought a war on their own soil. So even if they know how biological weapons work, there still will be allot of cacualities
And thats just crazy talk. We had no idea we would be attacked. I dont know what people are talking about when they say even Bush knew about 9/11 because he could have just as easily just have captured them and got them to tell what they planned to hit. Which would have gotten us up in arms too. Besides why would they have hit the twin towers if they planned it why not something that was not a symbol for our country and a place of business for the US government. And as for pearl harbor what are you thinking if we new we going to be attacked why were we caught so off guard there is no need to just sit back and let them attack we were at war the second they crossed into our waters.
Pearl harbor: why did only the old ships were in the harbor and new ones left 1 or 2 days before? How can you loose a giant fleet of japanese ships .

9/11: 2 years before 9/11/2001 terrorists were captured at the border with the same intentions. The cia and NSA knows pretty everything. How could they miss something big like 4 aircrafts. Why were the f16 pulled away? George W Bush needed a reason to attack Afghanistan and Iraq.

If you do some research, there is much more to find then you tought
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6603|SE London

Doperwt. wrote:

Wolfren wrote:

Doperwt. wrote:

America shouldn't develop biological weapons, because:

1) their gouvernment is still at war with Iraq and Afghanistan. The Americans have already proven they can't handle WMD (see japan WW II and Vietnamwar)  The USA government is trying to gain power and control in countries around the globe and with a leverage of biological weapons the sky is the limit for them.

2) like elamdri said you can't defend yourself against them

this sounds off topic but let's go:


the americans knew both times (pearharbor and 9/11 that they were going to be attacked, but didn't knew what to both times because they never have fought a war on their own soil. So even if they know how biological weapons work, there still will be allot of cacualities
And thats just crazy talk. We had no idea we would be attacked. I dont know what people are talking about when they say even Bush knew about 9/11 because he could have just as easily just have captured them and got them to tell what they planned to hit. Which would have gotten us up in arms too. Besides why would they have hit the twin towers if they planned it why not something that was not a symbol for our country and a place of business for the US government. And as for pearl harbor what are you thinking if we new we going to be attacked why were we caught so off guard there is no need to just sit back and let them attack we were at war the second they crossed into our waters.
Pearl harbor: why did only the old ships were in the harbor and new ones left 1 or 2 days before? How can you loose a giant fleet of japanese ships .

9/11: 2 years before 9/11/2001 terrorists were captured at the border with the same intentions. The cia and NSA knows pretty everything. How could they miss something big like 4 aircrafts. Why were the f16 pulled away? George W Bush needed a reason to attack Afghanistan and Iraq.

If you do some research, there is much more to find then you tought
Pearl Harbour was certainly allowed to happen. Whether or not 9/11 was allowed to happen is far less certain. There is no evidence that indicates it to be anything other than incompetance by the Bush administration. In a sensible government I would have expected a vote of no confidence in Bush's leadership, rather than the boost in support he got. 9/11 was certainly preventable and should have been prevented - but that is very different from it being allowed to happen.
Doperwt.
Anouk, Slayers little bitch
+80|6416|Belgium

Bertster7 wrote:

Doperwt. wrote:

Wolfren wrote:


And thats just crazy talk. We had no idea we would be attacked. I dont know what people are talking about when they say even Bush knew about 9/11 because he could have just as easily just have captured them and got them to tell what they planned to hit. Which would have gotten us up in arms too. Besides why would they have hit the twin towers if they planned it why not something that was not a symbol for our country and a place of business for the US government. And as for pearl harbor what are you thinking if we new we going to be attacked why were we caught so off guard there is no need to just sit back and let them attack we were at war the second they crossed into our waters.
Pearl harbor: why did only the old ships were in the harbor and new ones left 1 or 2 days before? How can you loose a giant fleet of japanese ships .

9/11: 2 years before 9/11/2001 terrorists were captured at the border with the same intentions. The cia and NSA knows pretty everything. How could they miss something big like 4 aircrafts. Why were the f16 pulled away? George W Bush needed a reason to attack Afghanistan and Iraq.

If you do some research, there is much more to find then you tought
Pearl Harbour was certainly allowed to happen. Whether or not 9/11 was allowed to happen is far less certain. There is no evidence that indicates it to be anything other than incompetance by the Bush administration. In a sensible government I would have expected a vote of no confidence in Bush's leadership, rather than the boost in support he got. 9/11 was certainly preventable and should have been prevented - but that is very different from it being allowed to happen.
There are some facts you need to know before you say bushadministration runs the country. America is just like japan run by the big companies. The president "follows" their orders.  Amerca hoped that after 9/11 the world would follow them on the war of terror.
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6603|SE London

Doperwt. wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Doperwt. wrote:


Pearl harbor: why did only the old ships were in the harbor and new ones left 1 or 2 days before? How can you loose a giant fleet of japanese ships .

9/11: 2 years before 9/11/2001 terrorists were captured at the border with the same intentions. The cia and NSA knows pretty everything. How could they miss something big like 4 aircrafts. Why were the f16 pulled away? George W Bush needed a reason to attack Afghanistan and Iraq.

If you do some research, there is much more to find then you tought
Pearl Harbour was certainly allowed to happen. Whether or not 9/11 was allowed to happen is far less certain. There is no evidence that indicates it to be anything other than incompetance by the Bush administration. In a sensible government I would have expected a vote of no confidence in Bush's leadership, rather than the boost in support he got. 9/11 was certainly preventable and should have been prevented - but that is very different from it being allowed to happen.
There are some facts you need to know before you say bushadministration runs the country. America is just like japan run by the big companies. The president "follows" their orders.  Amerca hoped that after 9/11 the world would follow them on the war of terror.
Whilst I'm not denying that is close to the truth, it is not the truth.
There were no big corporations letting 9/11 happen so they could go to war and get oil. The corporations may have used it as an excuse for invading Iraq, but there is no evidence to fit with that.

If you are going to make radical claims, please always provide quotations and sources, hopefully reputable ones.
motherdear
Member
+25|6673|Denmark/Minnesota (depends)

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

http://www.fas.org/main/content.jsp?for … tentId=387



Add to this the fact that the US still use white phosphorus, which is a chemical weapon in all but name.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle … 440664.stm

Oh and they're still developing the ballistic missile interceptor program which goes against the Anti-Ballistic missile treaty.

They also tried to develop `bunker-buster` mini-nukes.
since when has bunker busters been mini nukes that's just shit man they have been developed for at least 10 years and they aren't nuclear they just blow bunkers to shite they were used in the gulf so get informed next time you say shit like that.

and by the way who the fuck would not try to protect themselves from ballistic missiles, at least if they don't then they are just dumb.

and if you want the abc suit of tommorow then it won't help you to research old bio weapons that has been tested you need to test new ones so that you are prepared against them, because i you don't then eventually you will lose a lot of soldiers iif fx. you fight north korea or other countries like that.

by the way china is giving geneterapy (changing the cell structure in a human to kill fx. cancer) which is also against international law.
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6603|SE London

motherdear wrote:

by the way china is giving geneterapy (changing the cell structure in a human to kill fx. cancer) which is also against international law.
I'm pretty sure genetherapy is not against international law.

I assume you are talking about the Cartagena protocol, which would not cover that.
GorillaTicTacs
Member
+231|6395|Kyiv, Ukraine
Back to the original topic, I just need to ask...why is this news?  This dollar amount and facility size is peanuts compared to our existing facility in Ft. Detrick, Maryland.  Spent 3 months there TDY when I was in, sweating bullets the whole time thinking that some lab rat would get loose and bust into my barracks at night.  We used to joke whenever someone sneezed that they were the "outbreak monkey".

Seriously, the USA is the #1 biggest stockpiler of just about every treaty-banned weapon known to man...the whole gamut of chemical, nuclear (and offshoots), and biological.  You can say we're doing it for testing purposes, but the quantities we're storing would have been Saddam's wet dream...and stuff does go a'missin'.  Anyone remember the anthrax mails around 9/11 time that actually hit the National Enquirer offices and a few politicians...it was a specific lab strain from Ft. Detrick they found out after they investigated.  Guess which investigation was swept under the rug fast?

If anyone is really interested, suggest wiki on Unit 731 (the start of our slow moral decay in this area)
After Imperial Japan surrendered to the Allies in 1945, Douglas MacArthur became the Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers, rebuilding Japan during the Allied occupation.  At the end of the war he secretly granted immunity to the physicians of Unit 731 in exchange for providing America with their research on biological warfare. The United States believed that the research data were valuable because the allies had never publicly conducted or condoned such experiments on humans due to moral and political revulsion. The U.S. also did not want other nations, particularly the Soviet Union, to acquire data on biological weapons, not to mention the military benefits of such research.
Some of these experiments included vivisection (read "live and breathing, no anesthesia organ removal") of captured American POW's in addition to hundreds of Chinese and Russian subjects.  These guys were SICK to the core when it came to their germs and we bought them out, gave them cushy jobs, etc.  No folks, the Disney version of American history needs to be wiped from your minds.

Keep in mind that today, a majority of the pathology laboratories in most public and some private universities are being openly funded by the Department of Defense.  Whenever a student or professor discovers a new trick, they're immediately thrown in Fort Detrick to continue their work and put under gag order/security clearance.  Prions, like Mad Cow Disease for example, are one such new trick, able to be specifically programmed to attack individuals with certain racial or genetic make-up...good thing Bush isn't in to all that sciency stuff and chooses to spend his time justifying medievel torture and dark ages legal practices instead.  Sooner or later though, someone in power is going to decide a segment of the world population needs to die.


Other fun subjects in this area -
MKULTRA
Operation Whitecoat (germs, cultists, and Fort Detrick...there's a punchline there somewhere)
Operation Paperclip (more than just rocket scientists, don't believe the hype)

It's also rumored that HIV was engineered there, but my tinfoil hat starts to get too hot at that point.

Last edited by GorillaTicTacs (2006-11-29 14:50:16)

topthrill05
Member
+125|6600|Rochester NY USA

Bertster7 wrote:

topthrill05 wrote:

herrr_smity wrote:

grate make a new dooms day weapon, i guess nukes aren't good enuff
Do you understand why we are doing this? Let me explain.

Some nice people on this earth would like every American dead and would do so by any means. By us researching these bio weapons we can better protect ourselves from a bio terrorist attack.

Living in Norway you might not fully grasp the clear fact that alot of people want us dead. So please save the "Dooms day" weapon bull shit for another time and place where it might not make you look like an ignorant fool.
Don't you think you might be better off addressing why many people in the world want Americans dead?
No, because I doubt they would hear me. The post was intended for herrr_smity, not for the people who hate America.
.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|6851

motherdear wrote:

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

http://www.fas.org/main/content.jsp?for … tentId=387



Add to this the fact that the US still use white phosphorus, which is a chemical weapon in all but name.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle … 440664.stm

Oh and they're still developing the ballistic missile interceptor program which goes against the Anti-Ballistic missile treaty.

They also tried to develop `bunker-buster` mini-nukes.
since when has bunker busters been mini nukes that's just shit man they have been developed for at least 10 years and they aren't nuclear they just blow bunkers to shite they were used in the gulf so get informed next time you say shit like that.
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3414
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-nuke
Please take your own advice and become informed before trying to insult other people, it just makes you look stupid.

motherdear wrote:

and by the way who the fuck would not try to protect themselves from ballistic missiles, at least if they don't then they are just dumb.
Because it prevents an arms race, if you don't know why that's a bad thing, type `cold war` into google.


motherdear wrote:

and if you want the abc suit of tommorow then it won't help you to research old bio weapons that has been tested you need to test new ones so that you are prepared against them, because i you don't then eventually you will lose a lot of soldiers iif fx. you fight north korea or other countries like that.
The point is the biological weapons being talked about here don't exist, the only place they will exist is in the US. They are the only ones making the threat that they propose combating.
.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|6851

Stingray24 wrote:

Seems to me usmarine2007 is right.  Studying these things in a controlled environment in an attempt to develop defense against such attacks is the only prudent thing to do.  It has nothing to do with anybody blindly agreeing with anything. 

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

Yes.  In order to understand the effects of these weapons, we need to do research and experiments on them.  Why you ask?  So when some nutjob sets one off in times square, we will be better prepared on how to deal with it.
So when China follows suit and sets up it's own biological weapon development and testing centre you'll be just fine with that?

When some bloke decides to defect with the information from the centre and sells it to terrorists who use the information to make then set off a biological weapon in times square, that's not much of a problem to you? Bioweapons are a complete s**t to develop, study and deploy, well outside the means of most countries, let alone individual nutjobs. The most realistic way for a nutjob to gain the ability to do this is to nick the information from somewhere....
China will not follow suit, they don’t have the technology.  Until some Democrat president sells it to them.  Example: Clinton giving missile technology to China.  They could hardly get a missile off the ground before that.  Newsflash, bioweapons already exist.  If we don’t research how to protect against them, we’re beyond stupid. 
So if this threat exists and China doesn't have the technology, the US obviously doesn't because they wouldn't spend million of dollars on something they already know, so who exactly does have this technology? As I said above this isn't research into existing biological weapons, this is making new ones that currently don't exist. The only source of this threat is the the US bioweapons program itself.
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6603|SE London

topthrill05 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

topthrill05 wrote:


Do you understand why we are doing this? Let me explain.

Some nice people on this earth would like every American dead and would do so by any means. By us researching these bio weapons we can better protect ourselves from a bio terrorist attack.

Living in Norway you might not fully grasp the clear fact that alot of people want us dead. So please save the "Dooms day" weapon bull shit for another time and place where it might not make you look like an ignorant fool.
Don't you think you might be better off addressing why many people in the world want Americans dead?
No, because I doubt they would hear me. The post was intended for herrr_smity, not for the people who hate America.
And the you, was not intended for you specifically, but for your nation. I don't expect you to go running around changing US foreign policy, not that I expect it to change in any case. It is the cause of most of the hatred towards America though and if it were less controversial then America would have little need for all these nasty biological weapons.

Attack problems at their source. Don't just fight the symptoms.

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