BF2S Forums Saddam was right

usmarine2007 wrote:

I know, it is confusing isn't it?

Well, at best I'd say that's incoherent and I don't see how you can both believe that he needed to go and that he ruled in the "right" way. It's really an either/or situation.

I can see believing that while he was brutal the predicted alternative to his regime is worse.

Masques wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

I know, it is confusing isn't it?

Well, at best I'd say that's incoherent and I don't see how you can both believe that he needed to go and that he ruled in the "right" way. It's really an either/or situation.

I can see believing that while he was brutal the predicted alternative to his regime is worse.

In ruling the "right" way, well he kept the murdering car-bombing fundamentalist terrorists that are now killing hundreds, maybe thousands, of innocents under control.

In having to go, well, I guess we don't need to explain the reasons for that.

Its contradictory, but at least I think I can understand  usmarines's point of view, although not totally agree with it.

Last edited by EVieira (2006-11-29 15:12:06)

CameronPoe wrote:

Well I have to fucking laugh I must say. One-time advocates for the removal of Saddam now doing a complete 'flip flop' on the issue and actually endorsing Saddam Hussein. Welcome to zero credibility ever again.
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Cam you seem more concerned with saying "I told you so" rather than understanding that intelligent people have the ability to learn and adapt their line of thinking. That is what pushes the human species forward.

Bertster7 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Well I have to fucking laugh I must say. One-time advocates for the removal of Saddam now doing a complete 'flip flop' on the issue and actually endorsing Saddam Hussein. Welcome to zero credibility ever again.
.

Cam you seem more concerned with saying "I told you so" rather than understanding that intelligent people have the ability to learn and adapt their line of thinking. That is what pushes the human species forward.

Oh, c'mon - everyone likes to say I told you so when given the opportunity.

lol

Agreed, but it makes people less likely to embrace change.
We should be encouraging people to expand their mind. (In any direction)

The average Iraqi is a model citizen, who was hijacked by brutal dictator and his regime.

Whats happening now, is all those who were suppressed are trying to make a name for themselves.  For instance, that fat prick Sadr.  Saddam would have killed his fat ass a long time ago, because he posed a threat to his regime.  Since Saddam is no longer in power, that asshole walks around free starting up shit!! Bottom line is the Shiites and the Sunni's hated each other LONG BEFORE we went in there.  Saddam just knew which people he had to constantly have killed to maintain stability. 

We unfortunatly know who the players are, we just dont have the brutal dictator mentality to go in and start assasinating people like he did.  We would just look as bad as Saddam!!!!  As I have said many times before, you have to finish one job (Afghanistan) before you start another (Iraq).  We jumped into Iraq because we wanted answers and revenge PERIOD!!! Bush was under ENOURMOUS pressure to take out these islamic fucks!

The world is better off without Saddam and his sons, we just had a terrible lack of an "exit" plan once fighting ceased.  I dont fault the administration for taking that SOB out, I fault them for not conveying more information, and coming up with a smart comprehensive plan for a eventual withdrawl of troops.  We went from a fighting force to a police force, and thats not a recipe for success.  We need to finish the job in Afghanistan, i.e. take out that miserable asshole Bin Laden and his butt buddy Zawahiri, and remaining Taliban. 

We also need to get prepared for war with Iran, because they are dangerous as hell, and pose an even larger threat than al-Qaeda/North Korea!! Keep in mind Iran runs Hezbollah which is better trained and funded than al-Qaeda, not too mention BETTER ARMED!!!!!!!! Either way, war is not leaving that region ANYTIME SOON!!

CameronPoe wrote:

fadedsteve wrote:

We also need to get prepared for war with Iran, because they are dangerous as hell, and pose an even larger threat than al-Qaeda/North Korea!! Keep in mind Iran runs Hezbollah which is better trained and funded than al-Qaeda, not too mention BETTER ARMED!!!!!!!! Either way, war is not leaving that region ANYTIME SOON!!

I have every confidence that your latest planned gesture to the international community will be every bit as successful as your grand act of benevolence in Iraq. Good luck with it.

You want to allow these crazy assholes to develop a nuclear fucking weapon??? Because thats exactly what they are wanting to do, and they are doing it right before our faces!!

You are crazy if you think that will fly with the Israeli's. . . And yes, we should absolutely send Iran to the stone age if they try and fuck with us. . . . They are a menace and have been for years!! Jimmy Carter should have taken those assholes out years ago, but he was too big of a liberal push over!! Reagan fucked up too!! Nothing happened to Hezbollah after they blew up our barracks in Lebanon, shameful. . . .

They have been unfortunatley enabled by the recent events in Iraq, and are feeling mighty strong.  I say we chop their Islamic ass's down to size!! Diplomacy hasnt worked in thirty years with those dickheads, what makes you think its going to work now? They have no intention of being a model country whatsoever, and are intent on destroying Israel and anyone else who opposes radical Islam.  Should we wait for them to strike first like al-Qaeda did in New York??

Cameron seriously who do you support?? Do you enjoy your way of life, or do you want to live under Sharia law?? I understand your not a big fan of conflict, but seriously dont you realize that Europe is the little "Satan" in their eyes. . . . and would love nothing more to see it go down in flames just like big "Satan" USA??

BOTH!! I hate Islamic extremism, and am fearful that it hasnt event reached its climax yet!!

Moreover, most western nations citizens fail to grasp the seriousness of the problem!! These people (Islamic radicals) want to put the ENTIRE GLOBE under Sharia law, and basically under Islamic control.  Which means no freedom of speech, religion, sufferage, etc etc, all things we love and enjoy/take for granted on a daily basis!! You seem like a smart guy, I assume you have read some of these groups mission statements and seen their videos. . . .

I dont know what you think on the issue, but it does scare me that Europe is basically getting invaded with Islamic immigration, and they are doing nothing about it!!

It scares me that most Americans have no clue where on the map Iran is!! Not too mention the threat its regime posesses to world stability!  The only country/people that seems to get it, are the Israeli's!!! Maybe cause they are surrounded by these miserable assholes, they get the picture. . . its only a mattter of time till we (USA) get hit again, having to be reminded the underlying seriousness of taking these people for granted. 

Not too mention having to listen to the old "we saw the warning signs, why didnt we act sooner" phrase uttered by "ball less" politicians after a suicide bomber blows up a supermarket in anytown USA. . . . I can tell ya, its coming!

I just see the "writing" on the wall . . . I find it unacceptable that "talking" has availed us nothing with these insane people over the years.  All it has done is buy them time to bring in more weapons and technologies to kill us!! We need to take them out before they get the bomb P E R I O D!! Its not like they are hiding their intentions, which makes it even more unbelievable.

Saddam was never right, it was complete stupidity for this administration to invade and stick our noses where it didn't belong but saddam was never right.

fadedsteve wrote:

BOTH!! I hate Islamic extremism, and am fearful that it hasnt event reached its climax yet!!

Moreover, most western nations citizens fail to grasp the seriousness of the problem!! These people (Islamic radicals) want to put the ENTIRE GLOBE under Sharia law, and basically under Islamic control.  Which means no freedom of speech, religion, sufferage, etc etc, all things we love and enjoy/take for granted on a daily basis!! You seem like a smart guy, I assume you have read some of these groups mission statements and seen their videos. . . .

Now, the followers of the radical ideologies do not constitue the majority of the people in this region. They like must of us have bigger things to worry about, not some world domination that you seem to put forth. While sharia law is what they want (radicals), now what is the likely hood of this ever honestly occuring...are you suggesting that if we don't kill them all we may all wake up tomorrow under a small fraction of the Middle East's ideology?

fadedsteve wrote:

I dont know what you think on the issue, but it does scare me that Europe is basically getting invaded with Islamic immigration, and they are doing nothing about it!!

This invasion is it taken the form of legal immagration or are they literally "invading" Europe wit their massively united Radical forces...oh wait those don't exist nevermind no invasion.

fadedsteve wrote:

It scares me that most Americans have no clue where on the map Iran is!! Not too mention the threat its regime posesses to world stability!  The only country/people that seems to get it, are the Israeli's!!! Maybe cause they are surrounded by these miserable assholes, they get the picture. . . its only a mattter of time till we (USA) get hit again, having to be reminded the underlying seriousness of taking these people for granted.

On the comment on Americans not knowing wher Iran is i'd def have to side with you on that, but its threat to world stability i would argue the latter. While the pursuit of nuclear weapons is at least at this point covert and nonexcistent in terms of actual evidence supporting the development i would not be surprised that they having had examples from Pakistan, Israel, North Korea, and Iraq they will pursue "peaceful" ussage of nuclear techonology and eventually pop a nuclear weapon of some sort.

As to the threat to Americans directly you must not confuse nuclear techonology with the capabilities of transfering that said technology thousands of miles over seas to a target in the US, this now leads us to why Israel would be concerned due to their proxmity to Iran.

So if you state there is only a matter of time before the US gets "hit" again what exactly are you reffering to? Nuclear weapon strike or another strike by a country that is not Iran ie Saudi Arabia/ Egypt.

fadedsteve wrote:

Not too mention having to listen to the old "we saw the warning signs, why didnt we act sooner" phrase uttered by "ball less" politicians after a suicide bomber blows up a supermarket in anytown USA. . . . I can tell ya, its coming!

well to be perfectly honest til this day this has not yet occured and while ruling it out as improbable is not likey i would still argue that the chances are very low of this occuring.

fadedsteve wrote:

I just see the "writing" on the wall . . . I find it unacceptable that "talking" has availed us nothing with these insane people over the years.  All it has done is buy them time to bring in more weapons and technologies to kill us!! We need to take them out before they get the bomb P E R I O D!! Its not like they are hiding their intentions, which makes it even more unbelievable.

Talking oh we don't just talk to the people in this region....we the US:

Sponsor coups in Iran
Create the Taleban with the Help of Pakistan
Defend and found Israeli adventures into occupied territories
Invade two seperate countries in this region
Fund Saddam Husseien weapon arsenal

I could go on, but you sir seem to think that all of this is meer talk.

What technologies have they been brining and using to kill us? The bomb.....once again you confuse the possibility of having nuclear weapons (of which evidence is scarce) and that of having the tech to send it over to the US.

Blah, this whole war reminds me of what America did to China after WWII. China who was a great Allies during the war became an enemy afterwords as we decided that Communism was a threat. So the U.S. decided to back a Capitalist and try to over throw the government. Long story short is that the population did not want or need a U.S. type of government so China is now Communist. Remember the Occupation in Iraq is allegedly for the Iraqis not for the Americans.

I opposed the war in Iraq from day one always thought it was a horrible Idea and it was bullshit. I was right because I have the right amount of faith in our government. As Americans we should be ashamed of our government imposing "democracy(which we aren't even)"/Capitalism on other country's.. We don't need to police the world and should only go to war if there is an actual threat on our soil, 9/11 doesn't count in that because it's was a terrorist attack not backed by any actually government and should have been handled accordingly.

And why are we as American so afraid of third world countries getting nuclear weapons? Remember we are the only country in the world who have ever used one against an enemy.

usmarine2007 wrote:

JaggedPanther wrote:

BTW, Why the hell does the UN have to go in a take the load on the shoulders off off the US?? The UN shouldn't be the dog of the US or follow it wherever there is natural resources that US wants to control (AKA Invading a country).

The UN was supposed to take control of Iraq after the 1st Gulf War, they failed.  What natural resource?  Oil?  Well, where the fuck is this oil?  Sure as hell not in America, or my gas would be cheap as hell, but it ain't.

Yes it is. Look at petrol prices throughout the rest of the world.

usmarine2007 wrote:

It pains me to say Saddam was right.  Did I agree with his methods?  No.  But dammit, they worked.  The only way to deal with those people ( and yes I said those people, don't like it, go talk about Wake or Titans) was to murder anyone who got out of line.  There is no need to do that stuff in the US, UK, Europe, Australia, or many other countries because we do not act like animals.  We all try to make our countries better, except the people in Iraq right now.  And I know what you are going to say, "it is only a few bad apples," well, I disagree.  People can't speak out because they will be killed.  Doctors flee the country because they get kidnapped and so do their family members.  So, what do you do?  Who knows.  But Saddam had it right because he knew how to control the animals.  Do I like the stuff he did, hell no.  But I just do not know another way to control these people.  So, until someone can figure out how, it is hard to say he was wrong.

I pretty much agree with you.  I think we have no choice but to become the next Saddam if we want to stay in Iraq and win.

I still prefer withdrawal myself though.

usmarine2007 wrote:

JaggedPanther wrote:

BTW, Why the hell does the UN have to go in a take the load on the shoulders off off the US?? The UN shouldn't be the dog of the US or follow it wherever there is natural resources that US wants to control (AKA Invading a country).

The UN was supposed to take control of Iraq after the 1st Gulf War, they failed.  What natural resource?  Oil?  Well, where the fuck is this oil?  Sure as hell not in America, or my gas would be cheap as hell, but it ain't.

No, that's something for our oil companies to rake the profits off of. Something well predicted in advance and most of the noobs are just realizing now. You were never in the equation.

It was not the UN that failed in the 1st Gulf war it was George Bush Sr's, the UN"s mandate was to ensure Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction. AND GUESS WHAT???  We went to war because there was sketches, drawings and coloring books PROVING Saddam had WMD remember?


My next guess is the reason for the iraqi war will change (once again) to 'Operation American Resolve' 'Operation Stay The Course', some other sheepy catch phrase or 'Operation Rafeal McDonalds' and all the sheep will be fooled again.