Poll

Would you give up your car for an Iraqi Citizen?

Yes16%16% - 19
No83%83% - 93
Total: 112
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6924|USA

DonFck wrote:

lowing wrote:

DonFck wrote:


I never blamed America/Bush (these two are separate things btw), obviusly you're trying to build a situation where this thread will become that. You fail. I never said either that "when a country is oppressed, it is neglected by the US." You did.

Don't put words in peoples mouths and you'll do fine.
then ya might wanna delete this quotes from your posts.........

"Kuwait is not oppressed, but more the pampered baby of the U.S.."
I'm not blaming anyone here, just stating the obvious.

"By exploiting the people in nations like Iraq, we maintain our own standard of living. Thus, for the standard of living to go up in Iraq, the standard of living in the US and other advanced, industrialized nations must go down"
I didn't even say that

"Why on earth would one of the biggest consumers of fossil fuels have interest in Middle-Eastern countries."
Again not blame. Just stating the obvious in the form of sarcasm

or am I just ASSUMING you meant to implicate the US.
D-uh.
sorry for the second one I did mis-quote.

"Just stating the obvious in the form of sarcasm"...<----------------me too
Elamdri
The New Johnnie Cochran
+134|6920|Peoria
The thing is, its not just the US that is doing the exploiting. There's also other metro-poles in the system that have their own set of periphery to exploit, and if you follow World-Systems, then theres also what are called sub-periphery inbetween the periphery and the metro-poles.
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6640|Columbus, Ohio
Why would I give them my car?  So they could pack it full of C4 and blow people up?
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,054|7045|PNW

Elamdri wrote:

Something people tend to forget about the Third World is that the First World depends on the Third World in order to maintain it's wealth. By exploiting the people in nations like Iraq, we maintain our own standard of living. Thus, for the standard of living to go up in Iraq, the standard of living in the US and other advanced, industrialized nations must go down. It's fine and dandy to say you support the political and economic development of Iraq, but if that same development were to threaten your standard of living, would you be as OK with it? Ask yourself if you're willing to give up your TV, your car, your PC, your job, your home... so someone living in Iraq can have those things.
The west has a few resources of its own that it refuses to harvest, for fear of 'harming the environment.' As to your final question, no. Someone in Iraq has a greater chance of losing all of those things than I do. There's charity, and then there's destroying a part of your family's wealth for charity.

CameronPoe wrote:

The western world leeched our riches off the misery and exploitation of others for the past god-knows-how-many centuries, through the actions of the British, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Belgian, Dutch, Roman, Habsburg, Austro-Hungarian, Byzantine and Greek empires. We can't be blamed for the way in which our ancestors raped the world but we have a moral obligation not to continue shafting the rest of the world (much like the modern incarnation of the empires of old does - the USA - through military and economic imperialism).
Nothing the 'other side' wouldn't have done to us instead, if able.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6828

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

The western world leeched our riches off the misery and exploitation of others for the past god-knows-how-many centuries, through the actions of the British, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Belgian, Dutch, Roman, Habsburg, Austro-Hungarian, Byzantine and Greek empires. We can't be blamed for the way in which our ancestors raped the world but we have a moral obligation not to continue shafting the rest of the world (much like the modern incarnation of the empires of old does - the USA - through military and economic imperialism).
Nothing the 'other side' wouldn't have done to us instead, if able.
Of course, but given the west's near-unassailably dominant position of power and influence we can more than afford to play fair.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,054|7045|PNW

CameronPoe wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

The western world leeched our riches off the misery and exploitation of others for the past god-knows-how-many centuries, through the actions of the British, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Belgian, Dutch, Roman, Habsburg, Austro-Hungarian, Byzantine and Greek empires. We can't be blamed for the way in which our ancestors raped the world but we have a moral obligation not to continue shafting the rest of the world (much like the modern incarnation of the empires of old does - the USA - through military and economic imperialism).
Nothing the 'other side' wouldn't have done to us instead, if able.
Of course, but given the west's near-unassailably dominant position of power and influence we can more than afford to play fair.
'Let the other team have a spawn point!'
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6822|Southeastern USA
where's the "go fuck yourself" option, i don't exploit anyone, except drunk girls
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6822|Southeastern USA

Elamdri wrote:

Something people tend to forget about the Third World is that the First World depends on the Third World in order to maintain it's wealth. By exploiting the people in nations like Iraq, we maintain our own standard of living. Thus, for the standard of living to go up in Iraq, the standard of living in the US and other advanced, industrialized nations must go down. It's fine and dandy to say you support the political and economic development of Iraq, but if that same development were to threaten your standard of living, would you be as OK with it? Ask yourself if you're willing to give up your TV, your car, your PC, your job, your home... so someone living in Iraq can have those things.
I just re-read the whole thing, you're not talking about raising their standard of living to ours, you're talking about lowering our standard to theirs, HOORAY FOR COMMUNISM!!!
PspRpg-7
-
+961|6971

No. An Iraqi citizen can suck a lemon.

Last edited by PspRpg-7 (2006-11-30 10:43:44)

smtt686
this is the best we can do?
+95|6904|USA
explain how we exploit iraq.  Or how "I" exploit Iraq?  Or what you are thinking by Exploiting Iraq?
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6967|San Francisco
Iraq wasn't a third-world country until we went in and disrupted it...
hurricane2oo5
Do One Ya Mug !!!
+176|7037|mansfield
no i F**king would not give up my car.
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6640|Columbus, Ohio

Marconius wrote:

Iraq wasn't a third-world country until we went in and disrupted it...
Are you crazy?
PspRpg-7
-
+961|6971

usmarine2007 wrote:

Marconius wrote:

Iraq wasn't a third-world country until we went in and disrupted it...
Are you crazy?
Super happy fun time! Hang on...I'mma get some popping corn.
Sydney
2λчиэλ
+783|7116|Reykjavík, Iceland.
Not really no, I'm a selfish bastard.
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6822|Southeastern USA

usmarine2007 wrote:

Marconius wrote:

Iraq wasn't a third-world country until we went in and disrupted it...
Are you crazy?
their utility infrastructure was better 2 months after the war ended (original one to depose saddam, smartasses) than it was before we went in.

On topic
No I would not give up my car, tv, cellphone, porno, chocolate milk, instead i would help them get their own, you know, with stuff like literacy, trade schools, jobs. teach a man to fish, don't just hand him one everyday.
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7009|Salt Lake City

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:


Since when is the coke company run by the US govt? I just skimmed your articles but it also sounds like they are meeting Resistance for their venture.

wow a contracting company making money off of a war?? who ever heard of such a thing? I bet Boeing didn't make a dime during WW2, producing B-17's and B-29's.
Well Lowing - this is the thing - the movement of global capital is the new imperialism. America lives and dies by the performance of its multinational corporations. The absolute bottom line in corporate decision making is the dollar. This is generally to the detriment of the poor unfortunates roped into whatever free trade agreement the WTO and world bank has imposed upon them. And it's not just America - it's Europe, Japan and the rest of the west too. We all exploit for profit. And our governments support corrupt regimes and start wars so that our foreign business interests are catered for.
I agree but it is ultimately the corrupt third world govt leaders that are looking out for themselves and not their citizens.
I agree, and the Saudi's are a major offender in this way.  It is one of, if not the most oil rich country in the world.  They have $$$ coming out the wazoo, but a huge chunk of their citizenry are unemployed and poor.  However, to keep things chummy and oil flowing, we don't necessarily demonize them to this fact.

So ultimately I see both points.  It is corrupt governments as you said, but as long as they play ball and keep the oil flowing, we do little to nothing about it.
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6967|San Francisco
Not in the least...the majority of Iraq, even during the dictatorship, actually had comfortable living conditions (electricity, running water, transportation, etc.), and their economy was slowly picking up after the Gulf War (able to attain and share more resources and programs out to the citizens, etc.).  It had been doing nothing but rise to a 2nd-world level until we went in...
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|7008|California

kr@cker wrote:

where's the "go fuck yourself" option, i don't exploit anyone, except drunk girls
Make em sign a waiver, on camera.

"Blink once if I can hop on you"
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6917
I dont know if Ive shared this before but oh well. 

On patrol, in baghdad, in the busiest part of baghdad gets real monotonous.  you start to pay real close attention to things you never usually do. occasionally I would spot cars with western style bumper stickers "OZZY OSBOURNE"  or the batman symbol sprawled across the rear window.  I always had a sneaking suspicion that all or most of the privately owned vehicles were stolen american cars.  it be safe to say 1 out of 3 cars were chevys.  I saw a farrari one time which tripped me out but the one that took the cake was some car, i forget what kind, which had a god damn oklahoma license plate.  that proved my suspicion.  so next time you or somebody you know gets their car stolen, remember it might end up as a huge explosion somewhere in the desert
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6640|Columbus, Ohio

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

I dont know if Ive shared this before but oh well. 

On patrol, in baghdad, in the busiest part of baghdad gets real monotonous.  you start to pay real close attention to things you never usually do. occasionally I would spot cars with western style bumper stickers "OZZY OSBOURNE"  or the batman symbol sprawled across the rear window.  I always had a sneaking suspicion that all or most of the privately owned vehicles were stolen american cars.  it be safe to say 1 out of 3 cars were chevys.  I saw a farrari one time which tripped me out but the one that took the cake was some car, i forget what kind, which had a god damn oklahoma license plate.  that proved my suspicion.  so next time you or somebody you know gets their car stolen, remember it might end up as a huge explosion somewhere in the desert
What I found odd at checkpoints, nobody had any documantation about the vehicle.  It could be stolen and you would not know it.  Plus, I never saw any type of insurance.....and I heard that also during the Gulf War.
Stormscythe
Aiming for the head
+88|6822|EUtopia | Austria
Men. Think of it - if we didn't buy the oil for even these low prices, do you think they'd drink it?
What else should they do? I don't see any relation to giving your car for this...

The best way to create an economy is indeed cash which has to be spent wisely. Sadly, they don't spend it wisely, probably not a fault of the western civilization (and I'm just sick of people fighting each other because of their religious confessions...)...
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6917

usmarine2007 wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

I dont know if Ive shared this before but oh well. 

On patrol, in baghdad, in the busiest part of baghdad gets real monotonous.  you start to pay real close attention to things you never usually do. occasionally I would spot cars with western style bumper stickers "OZZY OSBOURNE"  or the batman symbol sprawled across the rear window.  I always had a sneaking suspicion that all or most of the privately owned vehicles were stolen american cars.  it be safe to say 1 out of 3 cars were chevys.  I saw a farrari one time which tripped me out but the one that took the cake was some car, i forget what kind, which had a god damn oklahoma license plate.  that proved my suspicion.  so next time you or somebody you know gets their car stolen, remember it might end up as a huge explosion somewhere in the desert
What I found odd at checkpoints, nobody had any documantation about the vehicle.  It could be stolen and you would not know it.  Plus, I never saw any type of insurance.....and I heard that also during the Gulf War.
come to think of it, I dont believe i saw a single drivers license either
_j5689_
Dreads & Bergers
+364|6990|Riva, MD

Spark wrote:

I don't have a car.

But wouldn't it be more useful to give them something else - like funding a decent police force?
I don't think any police force can handle heavily armed insurgents.
mooseboys
Member
+1|6914
Forget giving over your car.  You need your car.  A more reasonable question is, would you be willing to give up an even more gigantic gap in aircraft technology, or perhaps your social security check when you're 65.  Honestly, its called a savings account.
Joint Strike Fighter II Project - $200 Billion
Social Security - $500 Billion

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