BF2S Forums Why are French muslims revolting their government, but not others?

doctastrangelove1964 wrote:

Because they are mostly poor and the Frence goverment failed to renew a law which gave them high job security.

Unlike their U.S. counterparts, who entered a gigantic country built on immigration, most Muslim newcomers to western Europe started arriving only after World War II, crowding into small, culturally homogenous nations. Their influx was a new phenomenon for many host states and often unwelcome. Meanwhile, North African immigrants retained powerful attachments to their native cultures. So unlike American Muslims, who are geographically diffuse, ethnically fragmented, and generally well off, Europe's Muslims gather in bleak enclaves with their compatriots: Algerians in France, Moroccans in Spain, Turks in Germany, and Pakistanis in the United Kingdom.

The footprint of Muslim immigrants in Europe is already more visible than that of the Hispanic population in the United States. Unlike the jumble of nationalities that make up the American Latino community, the Muslims of western Europe are likely to be distinct, cohesive, and bitter. In Europe, host countries that never learned to integrate newcomers collide with immigrants exceptionally retentive of their ways, producing a variant of what the French scholar Olivier Roy calls "globalized Islam": militant Islamic resentment at Western dominance, anti-imperialism exalted by revivalism.

As the French academic Gilles Kepel acknowledges, "neither the blood spilled by Muslims from North Africa fighting in French uniforms during both world wars nor the sweat of migrant laborers, living under deplorable living conditions, who rebuilt France (and Europe) for a pittance after 1945, has made their children ... full fellow citizens." Small wonder, then, that a radical leader of the Union of Islamic Organizations of France, a group associated with the Muslim Brotherhood, curses his new homeland: "Oh sweet France! Are you astonished that so many of your children commune in a stinging naal bou la France [fuck France], and damn your Fathers?"

The situation was different with the "second generation", born in France, and as such French citizens by jus soli influenced law. As such, they can not be designated "immigrants", since they were born on national territory. A 1992 reform of the nationality laws delayed obtainment of French nationality until a request at adulthood (where previously it was automatically given). Because of persistent social discrimination, second generation Muslims are sometimes made to feel like immigrants. A large number of them are located in housing projects in the suburbs. Unlike in the United States and elsewhere, the French working classes often outside large cities, sometimes in ville nouvelles (such as Sarcelles for example, from which the term sarcellite was derived) for which no infrastructure other than sleeping dormitories have been planned, thus explaining a general boredom which some allege contributed to the 2005 Paris suburb riots.

Olivier Roy indicates that for first generation immigrants, the fact that they are Muslims is only one element among others. Their identification with their country of origin is much stronger: they see themselves first throught their descent (Algerians, Moroccans, Kabyles, Turks...). In general, ethnic origin is stronger for the first generation, which is why religious buildings built by this generation are Turkish, Tunisian, Moroccan, etc.

This is not so true with the second generation of Arab Muslims, who often do not even speak Arabic. They have many generational conflicts with newer Imams (Muslim religious leaders), who often are trained abroad and thus have a different understanding of religion. Their rejection of French secular values are at odds with most modern-influenced French Muslim youth, but can be appealing to some . A conflict seems to be growing between those advocating French imams be trained in France, to French academic standards, including fluency in French and in accordance with French and EU legislation (such as human rights and a secular, democratic state), and those insisting that imams should be trained in Muslim countries (and as a consequence often at odds with French & EU legislation etc.).

Last edited by Masques (2006-11-27 18:01:59)

Turquoise wrote:

Thanks for the link, Masques.  It sounds like France and the rest of Europe needs to close its doors to the Muslims.  Hopefully, Sarkozy will win in France's next election.

CameronPoe wrote:

Important point: The French have by far the largest proportion of muslims within their borders compared against other European nations (because of past imperialism in North Africa). By sheer volume of immigrant muslim numbers alone French integration problems are bound to be transparently clear in the global media. Groups shout louder than individuals.

Rosse_modest wrote:

Masques wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Thanks for the link, Masques.  It sounds like France and the rest of Europe needs to close its doors to the Muslims.  Hopefully, Sarkozy will win in France's next election.

Most of the problem seems to stem from those Muslims that were born there and aren't treated as full citizens.

The fact that they aren't treated as full citizens sometimes is largely due to their own attitude.

As to why the unrests are mostly happening in France: It's because they have a massive contingent of muslim immigrants.

Masques wrote:

Rosse_modest wrote:

Masques wrote:

Most of the problem seems to stem from those Muslims that were born there and aren't treated as full citizens.

The fact that they aren't treated as full citizens sometimes is largely due to their own attitude.

As to why the unrests are mostly happening in France: It's because they have a massive contingent of muslim immigrants.

Many Western European states have massive numbers of Muslim immigrants (certainly more so than the US). Germany for example has a very large number of Turkish immigrants without the same kinds of unrest, the UK has large numbers of Pakistani, Indian, and Egyptian immigrants without the same kinds of unrest, Spain has a large number of Moroccan immigrants without the same kinds of unrest.

France's difficulties with Muslim immigrants (and indeed immigrants from many of its former non-Islamic colonial possessions) is largely due to widespread racism and prejudice against immigrants. There were large numbers of colonials that fought for France during WWII (especially from North Africa and Southeast Asia) who were either denied proper pensions like regular French soldiers or invited into the country in the post-war period and treated like scum.