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2006-11-21 10:55:29
Dec45
Member
+12|6916

Erkut.hv wrote:

Dec45 wrote:

Erkut.hv wrote:


I call Shenanigans.

If people would take personal responsibilty and wear a friggin condom, or not have secks with 11 diferent people a week, AIDS might stop in it's tracks.

Guess what happens when you get drugs? Nobody has to take responsibility, yet again.
You're right, no one has to take responsibility. Including the companies who profit by monopolizing the production of AIDS medicine, and selling it for a price Africans can't dream of sustaining. What a responsible idea. Yeah...
Don't get AIDS you won't need drugs. personal responsibility will negate the need for overpriced medications. You're right, why should Mbutu keep it in his pants when he can get free pills and spread it to someone else?
You have no idea what you're talking about asshat. I guess you're under the impression that having AIDS makes you protrude a growth, that's a glowing neon sign to let you know.

For real, if you're going to put all the blame on 'Mbutu', at least put equal blame on the pharmaceutical companies. Otherwise, you just sound like an ignorant asshole.
2006-11-21 10:56:58
..teddy..jimmy
Member
+1,393|6925

Clark W Griswald wrote:

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

Clark W Griswald wrote:

.......or stop having five kids whne you can barely feed one.
They have kids for practical reasons. To help on the farm, etc
If that were the case then they would not be hungry would they?
What, do you know anything about the third world??
2006-11-21 10:58:28
Dec45
Member
+12|6916

Erkut.hv wrote:

RoccoDW wrote:

Erkut.hv wrote:


I call Shenanigans.

If people would take personal responsibilty and wear a friggin condom, or not have secks with 11 diferent people a week, AIDS might stop in it's tracks.

Guess what happens when you get drugs? Nobody has to take responsibility, yet again.
Again its not as simple as that. (Sex isnt the only way to transmit HIV by the way) a change of culture is needed and the current crisis is speeding that process along but it will take time. Aids is a relatively new problem and change takes many years. In the mean time the world should let 7000 plus people die per day?  The drugs aren't a cure for Aids, just a way to allow sufferers to live a productive life. You will still die from Aids, just not as quickly.
I'm not disagreeing that people shouldn't be allowed access to medicing. I am tired of all these fundraiser, concerts, etc... to combat a virus that can be stopped if people acted responsibly.

AIDS is 100% stoppable. The same can't be said of cancer and diseases of that nature.

People should be allowed access to the drugs, but at some point people have to get tired of treating diseases for free when people refuse to act with some degree of responsiblity. (not just sexually either)
Cancer is 100% preventable. You're just ignorant on how. Look up B-17, Super Silver, Magnesium and especially the video lecture called Food as Medicine on google video.

So your plan is to tell everyone in Africa to be abstinent out of fear? And I guess you expect them to pay for the test, to see if them and their partner have AIDS before engaging in sex? Your opinions seem to be full of accusations, and void of solutions.
2006-11-21 11:00:28
Dec45
Member
+12|6916

Phantom2828 wrote:

use condoms?
Stop killing each other?

I think we should give zero aid to them.
Its not my problem that they want to kill each other and are to stupid to do anything about it.
I don't want my tax dollars going up just so we can send food which the militias will probably take anyway and use to feed their armies (battle of Mogadishu)
Typical... Yeah let's act like we couldn't have, and still can't intervene on these militias and give aid to the people. Let's just pretend that if we can't get the food to them because the militia exists, then they're unable to be fed.
2006-11-21 11:06:27
Dec45
Member
+12|6916

Kmarion wrote:

With regards to Darfur. It is my understanding that the government of Sudan will not allow UN peace keepers into the region. Most of the aide that is sent is hijacked by militants. What kind of help can the world possibly give when there is no security?
Um... Security maybe?
2006-11-21 11:14:50
RoccoDW
Member
+2|6643

Phantom2828 wrote:

use condoms?
Stop killing each other?

I think we should give zero aid to them.
Its not my problem that they want to kill each other and are to stupid to do anything about it.
I don't want my tax dollars going up just so we can send food which the militias will probably take anyway and use to feed their armies (battle of Mogadishu)
Africa is more than capable of producing food for itself and the rest of the world too. U prefer your dollars to go into fighting wars without any real reason? Countries like America should use their influence and military might to stop those that supply the militias with weapons, stop things like genocide and (real) evil dicatorships. Mogadishu is a great example. The UN (primarily US) forces could have stopped the war the day the BlackHawk down incident took place. The militia had all their men in the city and had used up ALL their ammo during the night's fighting. They could have captured the warlord, his entire command structure (term used loosely her) and most of the men fighting for them, instead they pulled out, the militia had time to re-arm and the country is still in pieces today.  The Genocide in Rwanda could have been stopped if the UN commander there was listened to by the politicians. (Watch Hotel Rwanda if its too much to read up on)

Mugabe has singlehandly caused his country to become a disaster zone, the world know about it and does nothing. Zimbabwe was once called the breadbasket of Africa, it alone can feed most of the rest of the continent, yet next year they will not produce even a fraction of what they need for themselves. All due to a real mad dictator. Unfortunately Zim doesnt have Oil so the US wouldnt dream of ridding this "evil" from the world.
2006-11-21 11:17:35
GATOR591957
Member
+84|6903
I recently had a gentleman from East Africa come into my office and inquire about building a plastic pipe plant there.  I looked at him and asked, do you value your life?  He tells me he is from the region and recently the government has come to understand the only way they will ever evolve from the current situation is to invite commerce.  After some quick investigation, there is indeed an interest at least in Eastern Africa to build a country that is industrialized.  Basic problems in this situation are a steady electric supply and chilled water.  The pipe they produce will carry water from Eastern Africa to the West and South.  If this can be done it will allow farming in those areas that are stricken with drought currently and provide a steady water supply to those currently without.  This gentleman is truly attempting to solve some of the situation there and giving back to his homeland.
2006-11-21 11:18:01
Marlboroman82
Personal philosophy: Clothing optional.
+1,022|6899|Camp XRay

i don't feel like typing anymore, after visiting Africa recently I fell in love with the continent. I will just point everyone to my original post on the topic.

Edit - happy now?

Last edited by Marlboroman82 (2006-11-21 11:26:35)

https://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/marlboroman82/Untitled-8.png
2006-11-21 11:21:47
Dec45
Member
+12|6916

Marlboroman82 wrote:

i don't feel like typing anymore, after visiting Africa recently I fell in love with the country. I will just point everyone to my original post on the topic.
Africa's not a country.
2006-11-21 11:23:09
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6972|NJ
The sad thing about Africa is that nobody was looking at it before we went into Iraq.. Europeans created a huge portion of the problem in that country by seperating there cultures and "controlling" there lands for the wealth.. Iraq is going to exactly Mirror Africa when ever we pull out of it.. White people are only good at whipping out civilizations for there land, not helping them set up a new one..


As far as I know Africa is the number 1 producer of diamonds in the world and has alot of oil, but the country's that colonized it won't give control back to the government.

To the people saying keep your dick in your pants and you won't get Aids, it's personal responsablility. Just remember they don't have medical facilities like you have in your country and I'm sure sharing needles for common medicans in a normal practice. So it's hard to ask someone who doesn't have anything to come up with some condoms for their natural urges.

The only real solution at this point for the Aids in africa would be mass blood testing and quarintine. I think it's 1/3 people have the AIDS or HIV so it needs to be seperated, only corperations want a country addicted to there drugs but it's not good for the population.
2006-11-21 11:23:10
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6857|SE London

A lot of the problems in Africa stem from corruption. Different African countries have different problems of course, grouping all the countries in the 2nd largest continent in the world together isn't a great idea for addressing their problems. Lots of corrupt governments or militia groups cause all sorts of problems, exacerbating problems like disease and famine.

Corruption is the biggest problem that needs solving in Africa. With more legitimate governments in place and more transparency, more money would be pumped into Africa. It is partially because most of the current systems of government prevent money from getting to those who need it most and instead it only gets as far as the social and political elite.
2006-11-21 11:25:57
Marlboroman82
Personal philosophy: Clothing optional.
+1,022|6899|Camp XRay

Dec45 wrote:

Marlboroman82 wrote:

i don't feel like typing anymore, after visiting Africa recently I fell in love with the country. I will just point everyone to my original post on the topic.
Africa's not a country.
thanks a lot dick
https://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/marlboroman82/Untitled-8.png
2006-11-21 11:30:04
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6922

RicardoBlanco wrote:

We, the Europeans, need to take over the continent again. Most Africans would be happy for us to do so.

I lived there for over a year, in Botswana, and if anyone here thinks the African people can run a country by themselves you're totally deluded. Problem is, we judge a country's standards by our own and if you expect them to start living by our standards, i.e low corruption/crime/rape/violence, think again. Rural Africa, about 99% of the continent, is how Europe would have been 500-1000 years ago. Primitive is an understatement.

They do not share our concepts of what we consider fundamental to a civilised society and therefore will never fulfill our expectations of them. The less we expect from Africa the less dissapointed we'll be.

For those who will no doubt call me a racist, racism is based on prejudice. I've lived there and have made an informed judgement based on what I saw and heard.
QFT
2006-11-21 11:30:56
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|7011|California

Dec45 wrote:

Erkut.hv wrote:

RoccoDW wrote:


Again its not as simple as that. (Sex isnt the only way to transmit HIV by the way) a change of culture is needed and the current crisis is speeding that process along but it will take time. Aids is a relatively new problem and change takes many years. In the mean time the world should let 7000 plus people die per day?  The drugs aren't a cure for Aids, just a way to allow sufferers to live a productive life. You will still die from Aids, just not as quickly.
I'm not disagreeing that people shouldn't be allowed access to medicing. I am tired of all these fundraiser, concerts, etc... to combat a virus that can be stopped if people acted responsibly.

AIDS is 100% stoppable. The same can't be said of cancer and diseases of that nature.

People should be allowed access to the drugs, but at some point people have to get tired of treating diseases for free when people refuse to act with some degree of responsiblity. (not just sexually either)
Cancer is 100% preventable. You're just ignorant on how. Look up B-17, Super Silver, Magnesium and especially the video lecture called Food as Medicine on google video.

So your plan is to tell everyone in Africa to be abstinent out of fear? And I guess you expect them to pay for the test, to see if them and their partner have AIDS before engaging in sex? Your opinions seem to be full of accusations, and void of solutions.
Not for nothing chief but you're also lacking solutions.

I shall look up the cancer prevention topics you listed however.

And I will concede that most pharmaceutical companies are in it for the money, so helping poor brown people is out of the question.

Other than that, yeah, fear works. Don't want AIDS? Get tested before you f^#% each other.

Say what you want, but I am correct. Get tested, plain and simple.
2006-11-21 11:35:35
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6972|NJ

Erkut.hv wrote:

Dec45 wrote:

Erkut.hv wrote:


I'm not disagreeing that people shouldn't be allowed access to medicing. I am tired of all these fundraiser, concerts, etc... to combat a virus that can be stopped if people acted responsibly.

AIDS is 100% stoppable. The same can't be said of cancer and diseases of that nature.

People should be allowed access to the drugs, but at some point people have to get tired of treating diseases for free when people refuse to act with some degree of responsiblity. (not just sexually either)
Cancer is 100% preventable. You're just ignorant on how. Look up B-17, Super Silver, Magnesium and especially the video lecture called Food as Medicine on google video.

So your plan is to tell everyone in Africa to be abstinent out of fear? And I guess you expect them to pay for the test, to see if them and their partner have AIDS before engaging in sex? Your opinions seem to be full of accusations, and void of solutions.
Not for nothing chief but you're also lacking solutions.

I shall look up the cancer prevention topics you listed however.

And I will concede that most pharmaceutical companies are in it for the money, so helping poor brown people is out of the question.

Other than that, yeah, fear works. Don't want AIDS? Get tested before you f^#% each other.

Say what you want, but I am correct. Get tested, plain and simple.
Get tested with old needles, so if you didn't have AIDS before the testing you'll have it after. I'm not kidding about that either think about what you know about Africa, do you think it's sterile?

and at this..
RicardoBlanco wrote:
We, the Europeans, need to take over the continent again. Most Africans would be happy for us to do so.

I lived there for over a year, in Botswana, and if anyone here thinks the African people can run a country by themselves you're totally deluded. Problem is, we judge a country's standards by our own and if you expect them to start living by our standards, i.e low corruption/crime/rape/violence, think again. Rural Africa, about 99% of the continent, is how Europe would have been 500-1000 years ago. Primitive is an understatement.

They do not share our concepts of what we consider fundamental to a civilised society and therefore will never fulfill our expectations of them. The less we expect from Africa the less dissapointed we'll be.

For those who will no doubt call me a racist, racism is based on prejudice. I've lived there and have made an informed judgement based on what I saw and heard.


What do you expect from a country that was under Eurpeans control for the longest time, and raped of there resources, and still to this day. Maybe if you let the people have some of the moneys that you profited off of them for the past couple of hundreds if not more years, they'll be able to build an infastructor and educate themself..
2006-11-21 11:39:24
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6922

cpt.fass1 wrote:

What do you expect from a country that was under Eurpeans control for the longest time, and raped of there resources, and still to this day. Maybe if you let the people have some of the moneys that you profited off of them for the past couple of hundreds if not more years, they'll be able to build an infastructor and educate themself..
Blame the white man for their genocide!

Also, sending them money will do nothing. It will never go to the people who need it or be spent on anything constructive. There is way too much corruption.
2006-11-21 11:45:08
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6972|NJ
Yes way too much corruption between the white man and there leaders/guerrilla's...  But yeah the white man was part of the segregation between teh Tootsie's(spelling) and the other group... So I'd say that's there fault, the black where segregated from the blacks in Africa, it's a form of control...
2006-11-21 11:47:55
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6922

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Yes way too much corruption between the white man and there leaders/guerrilla's...  But yeah the white man was part of the segregation between teh Tootsie's(spelling) and the other group... So I'd say that's there fault, the black where segregated from the blacks in Africa, it's a form of control...
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/deathbym0nkeyz/racecard.jpg
2006-11-21 11:53:16
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6972|NJ

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Yes way too much corruption between the white man and there leaders/guerrilla's...  But yeah the white man was part of the segregation between teh Tootsie's(spelling) and the other group... So I'd say that's there fault, the black where segregated from the blacks in Africa, it's a form of control...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/ … cecard.jpg
Damn straight, now sit out a few rounds and roll the 20 sided dice till you hit the 20 and then come back and you can discuss...

Oh yeah, rich white people are bad..
2006-11-21 12:05:31
Dec45
Member
+12|6916

Marlboroman82 wrote:

Dec45 wrote:

Marlboroman82 wrote:

i don't feel like typing anymore, after visiting Africa recently I fell in love with the country. I will just point everyone to my original post on the topic.
Africa's not a country.
thanks a lot dick
I wasn't trying to be a dick, I just hear people say that a lot by either accident or ignorance, and in your case obviously accident... So I pointed it out.
2006-11-21 12:07:55
SGT.Slayero
Member
+98|6741|Life in a vacuum sucks
umm.....black people live there? i hope this info helps u to prove nothing.
2006-11-21 12:08:46
Dec45
Member
+12|6916

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Yes way too much corruption between the white man and there leaders/guerrilla's...  But yeah the white man was part of the segregation between teh Tootsie's(spelling) and the other group... So I'd say that's there fault, the black where segregated from the blacks in Africa, it's a form of control...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/ … cecard.jpg
You can ignore the fact that most Europeans who made these actions were white, and still realize that the divide and conquer tactic WAS used, and in doing so Africa was raped of much of its resources and culture. It's been that way for a while.
2006-11-21 12:13:48
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6857|SE London

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Also, sending them money will do nothing. It will never go to the people who need it or be spent on anything constructive. There is way too much corruption.
QFT.

It needs to be sorted out on a country by country basis. Focus on the least corrupt regimes first and get them running relatively smoothly, then invest in the countries. Leave the really messed up ones till last because they'll be harder work. For the really messed up ones send in AU peacekeepers and try to stop some of the bloodshed, but trying to get any real aid to the people is pretty much a waste of time (sad, but true).

Look at Kazakstan for a recent success story. Their resources were raped by the Soviets, now they are becoming a much better state to live in (despite the grim picture painted by Borat). All because of foreign investment in a nation rich with natural resources, like Africa. You can't blame all Africa's problems on colonialism, the vast majority of the problems are made by the Africans themselves.

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Oh yeah, rich white people are bad..
That's what Mugabe says. That's why he kicked them all off their farms and instead of giving them to people who could use them productively he gave them all to his friends who didn't know the first thing about farming, so there was mass starvation. Exactly the type of scenario that typifies Africas problems.
2006-11-21 12:18:46
Mitch
16 more years
+877|6801|South Florida

RoccoDW wrote:

I'm from South africa and having lived my whole life there  can tell you thats its not a simple question. "western" people will always struggle to understand the place unless you've spent a significant time there and been to more than just one country. Sorry Ricardo but a year in Botswana doesnt qualify you to know the continent.

Tribalism, poverty, corruption and lack of education are the major stumbling blocks for Africa's growth. The best idea i've ever heard to help africa is from a man called Mo Ibrahim, a billionaire from Africa who's offering prize money to the best performing Head of state in Africa. you can read about it here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6086088.stm

The money is awarded to the Head of state thats done the most to fight corruption and basically do the job they're supposed to be doing anyway. If this is audited properly it could just work to get governments in line.

A major help for Africa would of course be if foreign countries stopped taking all the wealth away from the people. Africa is one of the richest continents in the world in terms natural resources but most of it is owned by foreign companies. The World Bank and IMF ensures that they keep the 3rd world down by providing conditional aid which ensure the country in question gets deeper and deeper into debt. (corruption in the country adds to this problem but isnt the worst of it) They will make loans to countrues and then specify how that money should be used. Most of it ending up back in America and Britain through fees, contracts and mineral rights anyway. You just need to look at how the entire dairy industry in Jamaica was destroyed by them to see how bad it is. Other issues include Aids, its ESTIMATED that 2.8 million people died of Aids in Africa last year alone. The continent's people are being wiped out yet international drug companies refuse to allow Africa to produce its own generic drugs because they might lose money in the long run.

Bottom line is that there is no simple answer to the problems of africa, it needs to be addressed from various angles but the best thing the world can do to help is to write off Africa's debt and let the continent sort itself out. "Aid" in its various forms often makes the problems worse.
They have computers in Africa?
They have billionares from Africa?
If so, then why don't people follow in Mo's footsteps and they can all be billionairs?
15 more years! 15 more years!
2006-11-21 12:43:24
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6972|NJ

Bertster7 wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Also, sending them money will do nothing. It will never go to the people who need it or be spent on anything constructive. There is way too much corruption.
QFT.

It needs to be sorted out on a country by country basis. Focus on the least corrupt regimes first and get them running relatively smoothly, then invest in the countries. Leave the really messed up ones till last because they'll be harder work. For the really messed up ones send in AU peacekeepers and try to stop some of the bloodshed, but trying to get any real aid to the people is pretty much a waste of time (sad, but true).

Look at Kazakstan for a recent success story. Their resources were raped by the Soviets, now they are becoming a much better state to live in (despite the grim picture painted by Borat). All because of foreign investment in a nation rich with natural resources, like Africa. You can't blame all Africa's problems on colonialism, the vast majority of the problems are made by the Africans themselves.

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Oh yeah, rich white people are bad..
That's what Mugabe says. That's why he kicked them all off their farms and instead of giving them to people who could use them productively he gave them all to his friends who didn't know the first thing about farming, so there was mass starvation. Exactly the type of scenario that typifies Africas problems.
The only problem with working on the least corrupt countries is that the more corrupt one's will probably end up going to war with them.  Infasturctures in Africa would help alot as far as I know about it, the infasturcture there sucks...

Oh I'm half kidding about the rich white people.

Last edited by cpt.fass1 (2006-11-21 12:43:57)

 

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