IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6481|Northern California

jarhedch wrote:

umm dude, Ca requires a driver's licence renewal after 5 years, and if you've got points or a record, you gotta retake either the written or the driving test. Living in the UK that has a much harder test there aren't any more courteous or better drivers, in fact basically the opposite.  Yeah, CA has some really bad drivers, my personal fave is the "oh crap there's my exit going past i gotta cross 5 lanes to exit maneuver". Britain simply has a hard test, that simply costs more money to pass. All the driving instructors do is train you to pass the test.

There is no actual proof (and driving in both US and UK, and also having held a licence in 2 different states, I haev seen some seirous driving) that harder etsts will do anything you are saying. In terms of having courteous, defensive drivers, the only way to make that happen is to prosecute and criticize poor driving. It's got nothing to do with harder tests.
Perhaps a reread would help.  I'm saying that driving tests need to be done because the written tests aren't enough.  And as an addition, more thorough drivers training written tests (possibly including the FEDEX drivers training testing) would improve it considerably.

And there's no proof that harder tests would improve things because it's immeasurable and it hasn't been done..hence the suggestion to do so.

And yes, if road tests were given periodically (every 10 years until 60, then every 5), it would definately remove bad drivers.  If you're a driving test instructor, and your 72 year old driver doesn't look in her mirrors or turn her head..ever, you're going to be removing her from the road.  If your driver hits the curb 3 times in a row while parallel parking, then yes, they're gone.  If speed is not negotiated properly based on conditions of traffic, road conditions, or visibility..then they're gone.  A written test (usually instantly repeatable) does nothing to test someone...especially when they can review the latest drivers manual they stack up right next to the testing area.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6481|Northern California

Ender2309 wrote:

Sgt_Bob05 wrote:

People over 70 should NOT be able to drive. I've had my license for 3 months and they've almost cause me to almost crash a few times already. They drive like they're the only car on the road.
i'll assume you're new to DST. why? because you're ignorant.

you see, in DST, the goal is to look the best. its good to see that you type in real english, but, unfortunately, you fail to use logical thinking and evidence to back up your post. you don't simply throw down an opinion and leave it at that; you back it up.

to combat your post, i'll use examples from my personal experience. my grandfather, soon to be 78, happens to be the best driver i've ever seen, so, therefore, you are wrong.

now you try.
ok, let's take a chill.  he stated his opinion..part of being in DST is to respect that opinion as such.   he doesn't need to back it up.  silly goose.
Ender2309
has joined the GOP
+470|6561|USA

IRONCHEF wrote:

Ender2309 wrote:

Sgt_Bob05 wrote:

People over 70 should NOT be able to drive. I've had my license for 3 months and they've almost cause me to almost crash a few times already. They drive like they're the only car on the road.
i'll assume you're new to DST. why? because you're ignorant.

you see, in DST, the goal is to look the best. its good to see that you type in real english, but, unfortunately, you fail to use logical thinking and evidence to back up your post. you don't simply throw down an opinion and leave it at that; you back it up.

to combat your post, i'll use examples from my personal experience. my grandfather, soon to be 78, happens to be the best driver i've ever seen, so, therefore, you are wrong.

now you try.
ok, let's take a chill.  he stated his opinion..part of being in DST is to respect that opinion as such.   he doesn't need to back it up.  silly goose.
hey, I WAS trying to be nice, even if it didnt come off that way. sorry to offend, if i did, bobbo.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6762|PNW

Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6396|North Carolina
Thanks for the link...  What was the moral of the story? (haven't watched it yet)
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6762|PNW

Turquoise wrote:

Thanks for the link...  What was the moral of the story? (haven't watched it yet)
The moral was that old people kill people. Take what you want out of it, but it's still South Park...lol.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-11-20 16:45:31)

Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6396|North Carolina
LOL...  heh...  That sounds like them.

Personally, I think there should be an age cap on driving.  If there's an age minimum, there should also be an age maximum.
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6727|Salt Lake City

Turquoise wrote:

LOL...  heh...  That sounds like them.

Personally, I think there should be an age cap on driving.  If there's an age minimum, there should also be an age maximum.
I'm not for setting maximums because everyone ages differently.  You have some people well into their 70s and 80s that are still sharp as a tack.  There are those that are only in their 60s that should have their license taken away.  However, as one ages the ability of ones health to decrease at a substantially faster rate is greatly increased.  As such, the renewal process of every 5 years, or thereabouts, is just too long.  I believe that for all parties the most fair thing would be to test every two years from age 60-70, and yearly from that point on.
jonsimon
Member
+224|6486
Why not just test anyone over 50 when they renew their license?
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6762|PNW

Well, when I can't find Country Kitchen Buffet on my own, I'll quit driving.
Ekfud
Infantry Whore
+42|6666|Kingswood Country
Some Australian states already have this - mandatory resit of drivers license upon renewal each year for people over a certain age. NSW it is mandatory (driving with an RTA inspector in the car) for people 85+, which includes a basic medical (eye and hearing).

May change to come further down the age band in future, but has gone some way to ensuring that medical issues (cataracts, etc) are picked up and limit unsafe drivers.

Pity there isn't a compulsory Bogan test (+1 for any reasonable suggestions).

Last edited by Ekfud (2006-11-20 19:46:52)

<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|6692|New York

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

SAy a test for eye/ear check was implemented for people over 60 to be administered more often. One day you turn 60 and fail it. WOuld you be ok with giving up your driving privilege for the greater good?
Exactly, driving is not a right, it is a privilege.  When some one is no longer able to handle a vehicle safely, for whatever reason, then their license needs to be pulled.
Well think of it this way slick(btw i do agree though) Your 65, wife is dead, your family doesnt come around. Only thing you have is your car. Its sometimes not just a matter that these folks knowing they are too old to drive, its giving up there Last bit of independence. Thats the way allot of elderly people feel, and until (at least this country) starts treating the elderly in a more respectful way(one they deserve) then your going to have many more unfit drivers resist giving up there last resemblance of what use to be a normal life. After the license goes, allot of them figure a Old Age home isn't too far behind, no matter there age.
Miller
IT'S MILLER TIME!
+271|6746|United States of America
Elderly, that's a funny word.
التعريفات
Squiggles
+102|6358|Cali

Miller wrote:

Elderly, that's a funny word.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6520|Global Command
Anyone ever see Donovans Run?
Sgt_Bob05
Nade Spammers Must Die
+49|6692|Australia

Ender2309 wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Ender2309 wrote:


i'll assume you're new to DST. why? because you're ignorant.

you see, in DST, the goal is to look the best. its good to see that you type in real english, but, unfortunately, you fail to use logical thinking and evidence to back up your post. you don't simply throw down an opinion and leave it at that; you back it up.

to combat your post, i'll use examples from my personal experience. my grandfather, soon to be 78, happens to be the best driver i've ever seen, so, therefore, you are wrong.

now you try.
ok, let's take a chill.  he stated his opinion..part of being in DST is to respect that opinion as such.   he doesn't need to back it up.  silly goose.
hey, I WAS trying to be nice, even if it didnt come off that way. sorry to offend, if i did, bobbo.
Well it did come off fairly harsh but np. I've had very bad experience with elderly drivers.
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|6712|Sydney, Australia
Most of them... NO!

As an observation: Here in Australia, there are many jokes about women, asian and elderly drivers not being very good. (Lol, imagine an elderly, female, asian driver... yikes!)

A great aunt of mine has recently gotten her license again. She is 75+. It took her 3 or 4 attempts at getting the license because she forgot simple things regarding the road rules. At that age, if a persons mind becomes 'fragile' and they start to forget things, things that will be potentially dangerous, they should not have a license.

On an interesting note, the sister of my grandma recently turned 80. On her birthday, she handed hes license in and did not sit for the test. That is quite responsible - knowing ones limitations when it comes to driving.

I do however see a reason for the elderly to keep on wanting to drive. It gives them independence - something that they probably should have.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ladies, gentlemen, judge and jury, I present my case for the very elderly NOT being allowed to drive:

Anyone living in Australia would be familiar with Sophie Delezio. Her story has on occasion become nation news. Why? Because of the actions of two elderly drivers.



Accident number one:

Sophie first came to the attention of the public on December 15, 2003 when she and another child, Molly Wood, were badly injured when they were trapped under a burning vehicle which had crashed through a fence into the child care centre where they were being cared for. Sophie suffered burns to most of her body and lost both feet, some fingers, and her right ear.

The driver who crashed into that centre, Donald John McNeall, was 70 at the time of the accident.



You would think one accient was enough for the young girl. As fate, nay another elderly driver would have it, she suffered a second accident:

On May 5, 2006 Sophie again made national headlines when she was badly injured in a road accident. While being pushed by her caregiver in a wheelchair with her service dog Tara by her side, across a pedestrian crossing near her home in Sydney's northern suburbs she was hit by a car, and thrown 18 metres. Sophie suffered a broken jaw and shoulder bone, bruising to her head, numerous rib fractures and a tear to her left lung.

An 80-year-old man, John George Sharman, was been charged in relation to the second accident with "dangerous driving occasioning grievous bodily harm, negligent driving occasioning grievous bodily harm and not giving way to a pedestrian on a crossing". Having pleaded guilty Sharman was in October 2006 placed on a good behavior bond for 18 months and suspended from driving for a year.


And if you want a face for the story:

https://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2004/06/03/sophie_200.jpg

details from www.wikipedia.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Just something to consider.

Mcminty.
Invaderzim
Chicken wing?
+49|6439|Newcastle NSW Australia
Is this the country kitchen beffet? for all those people who watch south park
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|6712|Sydney, Australia
Lol, again an arguement for not letting them drive. Poor guy in the fishing boat under the bridge...
Bernadictus
Moderator
+1,055|6727

IRONCHEF wrote:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2006/11/20/state/n111001S33.DTL

In this article, we see the sentencing that was given to a 89 year old man who killed 10 and injured 70 as he plowed through a farmer's market in Southern California.  The judge was to give him a 18 year sentence but because he was so old and too much of a liability for the prison system, he will walk...albeit with a walker.

My point of discussion is not this man's case but rather the issuance of licenses to drivers in general.  To be issued a license, there is a written test and a drivers test (in California and probably most states in the US) where you must perform a handful of vehicular movements and observations as you drive...then that's it for life.  From my understanding, one can get their licnese at 16, and drive until they die doing remedial written tests every few years to renew your license.  But does that really qualify you to drive safely?  Is experience in driving always good experience making the roads safe?  Is it enough to memorize braking distances, curb colors, and blood alcohol content?  I say NAY!

I'm of the opinion that EVERY motorist should undergo vigorous driving training at least every decade, and after 60, every 5 years.  Having been a FEDEX courier and marvelling at their driver training course, I'd drastically change the way our DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles) tests by implementing the FEDEX computer based course followed by FEDEX style road tests.

Can you imagine traffic being easier to navigate in?  Can you imagine courteous, defensive drivers?  Can you imagine farmer's markets not being plowed by crazy old drivers who should not be on the roads?

How would you rate the driving in your country/region/state and what would you do to improve it?
Here (In the Netherlands) you have to take a test every 5 years, after you turn 65 (Reteriment Age).
My grandmother is 83, but is still a responsible driver (Although not the quickest.)
Bernadictus
Moderator
+1,055|6727

But on the subject of 9 out of 10 elderly driving like morons.

I have had numerous encounters with elderly people driving 90-100 km/h on the LEFT! lane, where 120 is allowed.

Now imaging me coming at them with 150 km/h. Yes I know, I speed alot, but never more than 30km/h and then only on the freeways. I am going around 50 km/h faster than them, and they are blokking the left lane (which is defined as " lane for faster traffic ". I used to have patience, but now I ignite the foglights on the car and I wish I had a bull-bar so I could push them out of my way.
BVC
Member
+325|6686
Once people get older their driving abilities decline more rapidly, thus they should be tested more often.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6533|Texas - Bigger than France
I've changed my mind on this topic.

The age which has the worst driving record is from 16-25.  They are responsible for more crashes than the elderly.  In fact, the elderly aren't any worse than anyone else.

So what does this mean in my mind?

The driver's tests are too easy.  It's the DMV's fault for allowing untrained and poor drivers on the road.  It's not completely their fault, but its definately a contributing factor.
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6436|The Land of Scott Walker
Ooooh, you didn’t just bring up my pet peeve.  I was taught to respect my elders, but old folks driving like morons crosses the line with me.  I want driving tests biannually after 60 years of age.  Period.  Having been nearly run off the road in my town more times than I can count by older folks
changing lanes with impunity
with the wrong signal on
without checking their mirrors
at ten or more mph UNDER the speed limit
behind the wheel of massive road behemoths (which have the capability to single-handedly crush any vehicle on the road into a scrap heap) 

The road behemoths are part of the reason they drive like they own the road.  The other reason is that they’ve “earned the right” to disobey the rules of the road because of time served on earth.

My great grandparents didn’t kill anyone (thank God) but before their licenses were taken away, great grandpa was going the wrong way on I-69 in Michigan!  Holy crap! Can you say massive pileup?!?! 

They also can’t park worth a darn let alone DRIVE through a parking lot without sideswiping someone and removing all the paint on one side of their car.   Then they blame the “youngster speeding through the parking lot”.  I saw one old lady destroy the paint on her Cadillac by scraping a yellow pole along the whole length of the driver's side.  *scrrrrrraaaaaaaape*   With road tests every other year after 60 and annually after 70, there would be no need for an age limit.  Then if I’m 90 and still sharp, I can still drive my Corvette (the first of which I’ll have at 40 hopefully, but that’s a different thread).
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6727|Salt Lake City

Pug wrote:

I've changed my mind on this topic.

The age which has the worst driving record is from 16-25.  They are responsible for more crashes than the elderly.  In fact, the elderly aren't any worse than anyone else.

So what does this mean in my mind?

The driver's tests are too easy.  It's the DMV's fault for allowing untrained and poor drivers on the road.  It's not completely their fault, but its definately a contributing factor.
Yes, but that is something totally different.  It's not so much that the driving test is too easy, so much as it is that those in that age range still tend to make bad decisions.  They still have that invincible mentality, and think it's cool.  However, these people can have their licenses taken.

With the older drivers it's not about their making immature decisions as it is that their health has declined to the point where they simply lack the reflexes, motor skills, and often eye sight, to properly drive a vehicle.  These are physical limitations, which simply can't be overcome in most cases, as it is due to age deterioration.  Becuase this is an inevitable fact, and the fact that their health can degrade quickly, they should be tested more often to ensure that they can safely operate a vehicle.

Last edited by Agent_Dung_Bomb (2006-11-21 13:49:28)

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