BF2S Forums The Dutch Contraversial ??????

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

The only reason I can think of that they might be doing it is to discourage further immigration to the Netherlands (through creating an impression of intolerance by government), something that they aren't particularly keen on, from my understanding.

Thats some damn powerful insight there.

dubbs wrote:

I have two things to say.  Being in a society were the sexs are treated equal for the most part, it is sexist to have a woman cover her face.  Coming from this stand point, it may be Holland's way of making this part of society less sexist.

If you view it as sexist, sure.  But then, in Western societies males are supposed to be guardian/protecter figures and take the blame if, for example, there isn't enough money coming into the house.  Isn't that sexist?

dubbs wrote:

Now into the other religious stuff.  In Islamic nations (some of them), it is against the law to have a Bible.  Those societies ban other religions, just because a largely Christian nation chooses to ban a Islamic artifact, it is a big story.  We have all heard the Golden rule, treat others how you want to be treated.  If Islamic nations are banning other religions, then nations with other major religions should be able to ban Islamic rules and/or laws, and way of life.

So, you don't think maybe if these people aren't living in Islamic fundamentalist nations they don't approve of those laws?  Quite apart from which, are we now basing our concept of what is right and what is wrong on nations which we characterise as oppressive and sponsoring terrorists?

dubbs wrote:

Since 9/11, it seems that Islam has be protected more, and other religions have be looked down upon, no matter what Muslims do, they are always right.  There was not a lot of noise when Muslims kill people of other religion, just because they believe in another religion.  It is about time that a government and group of people stood up and said that if Muslims are making some rules, they have to follow them also.

Oh, yes.  Muslims being thrown off planes for playing with mobiles, people of Middle Eastern appearance being targetted for violence, newspapers targetting the Muslim religion with cartoons.  All blue skies and smooth sailing for Muslims.

TPM-J45P3R- wrote:

+1!

...As a bus driver in the UK, my route takes me through a part where there is a high Muslim population.

...One of my colleagues refused a woman on the bus with a 'burqa' on because she did not look like the photo on her bus pass! ... now he's getting screwed over it!! some kind of religious discrimination or summat like that!

...outrageous!... I could refuse them on my bus on principal of i feel threatened by them ? i dunno.. whats this place come too ?!

that's what i'm talking about, they have to realize they need to make concessions for security purposes, and not just for anti terrorism, but for their own protection, how is a bank teller supposed to know if the person making the withdrawal is the same person on the ID card?

TuataraDude wrote:

Vilham wrote:

TuataraDude wrote:

The government came out with this just a few days before the election. It is a big vote grabbing ploy by catering to the lowest common denominator. From what I understand, there have been quite a few serious incidents in Holland that involved immigrants. I'm sorry, telling 100 people in a land of 16 million that they cannot wear an item of clothing that is a cultural aspect of their lives (and it is not a part of Islamic doctrine) is not the answer.

Sorry to ask, but is there any reason behind that sig, its just i find it quite disturbing

It is a photo of one of my cats after she went under the house for the first time. All the mess is cobwebs and such.

lol k, it looks well freaky tbh.

Imo, you have to integrate with society. I'm not an immigrant but my parents were and they make it clear that you have to integrate as well as keep your culture, it's a fine balance. Besides try wearing "western clothing" in Saudi Arabia, isn't it like illegal there to not be Islamic and wear things like mini skirts and stuff? I mean if you want things to be 100% as how they were in your old country then why move in the first place? Besides they're still allowed to wear scarves and stuff. You're still allowed to wear chains, turbans, Jew hats etc..

Bubbalo wrote:

dubbs wrote:

I have two things to say.  Being in a society were the sexs are treated equal for the most part, it is sexist to have a woman cover her face.  Coming from this stand point, it may be Holland's way of making this part of society less sexist.

If you view it as sexist, sure.  But then, in Western societies males are supposed to be guardian/protecter figures and take the blame if, for example, there isn't enough money coming into the house.  Isn't that sexist?

I do believe that is sexist, there are a lot of things that I believe are sexist in the Western world.

Bubbalo wrote:

dubbs wrote:

Now into the other religious stuff.  In Islamic nations (some of them), it is against the law to have a Bible.  Those societies ban other religions, just because a largely Christian nation chooses to ban a Islamic artifact, it is a big story.  We have all heard the Golden rule, treat others how you want to be treated.  If Islamic nations are banning other religions, then nations with other major religions should be able to ban Islamic rules and/or laws, and way of life.

So, you don't think maybe if these people aren't living in Islamic fundamentalist nations they don't approve of those laws?  Quite apart from which, are we now basing our concept of what is right and what is wrong on nations which we characterise as oppressive and sponsoring terrorists?

They may not approve of those laws, but when in Rome you have to do what the Romans do.  I was also trying to state that if people are upset because of a law that bans religious headware, should also look at how some Islamic nations treat other religions.  I think that there is a huge difference in the consiquence (sp) for what the Western society does, compared to that of some Islamic nations.  If we were basing our laws to the Islamic nations, anyone wears or has any article from another religion, they should be put to death.  This is after a chance to convert to our religion.  If we compare death to not going out in public, I think that death is more stiff penalty for just believing in a different religion. 

Bubbalo wrote:

dubbs wrote:

Since 9/11, it seems that Islam has be protected more, and other religions have be looked down upon, no matter what Muslims do, they are always right.  There was not a lot of noise when Muslims kill people of other religion, just because they believe in another religion.  It is about time that a government and group of people stood up and said that if Muslims are making some rules, they have to follow them also.

Oh, yes.  Muslims being thrown off planes for playing with mobiles, people of Middle Eastern appearance being targetted for violence, newspapers targetting the Muslim religion with cartoons.  All blue skies and smooth sailing for Muslims.

In the same sense, there have been a lot of cartoons that have came from Islamic nations that attack the Western society.  Also, I would not care if they made a cartoon of my faith.  If this "hurts their feelings" then then they can get over it.  A small cartoon, is nothing compared to the people that they murdered for not converting to Islam.  There are all kinds of people targetted for violence because they are different.  This does not make the news everyday.  We also do not hear about the cartoons that they create that attack there religions.  This site at least show some cartoons that attack the Judism.   There are other religions that have cartoons made that target them.    In Kenya, the Muslims from the east coast region, attack those who do not believe in Islam.  That is some of the things that you do not hear about in the news.  All the news (at least here in the States) is how Islam is being oppressed, but they do not show that other side of the story, unless it is an extreme act.  I think that overall my point is that Islam is given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to religious practices, and if anyone trys to say other wise they are wrong.  That is how I see the issue.  There is a lot of talk about how people oppress and suppress the religion of Islam, but there is hardly any information about how Islamic nations do the same to other religions.

Holland rules

Our country created that law, because we have a system called 'Integration'. You either become a full member of the Dutch society, thus following rules. We allow Islam and many other religions, but our open society does not allow burqa's or niqaabs because they do not fit our society. Those 'Tents' are created upon supressing females, and guess what we don't do in Holland.

But as a politician said ; "If you don't like it here, leave."

But this had nothing to do with religion, as 'Ski' or 'Bivak' Masks are now also forbidden to be worn in Public.
This is purely for public safety.

+1 The Netherlands.

I agree that a persons face can't be covered when ID is an issue, but if a woman wants to walk down the street with her face covered let her. It is cold as hell here and everyone wraps scarfs around their face and head to keep warm. No one has issue with that.
My point about banning Christians wearing the cross, is were do we stop? If we only ban Islamic head wear the west is alienating even more Muslims forcing an even bigger gap between the two cultures. These women are usually first or second generation immigrants. They will change and integrate given time. By trying to force them to conform will only do the opposite.