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[CANADA]_Zenmaster
Pope Picard II
+473|5497

This content has been moved to the wiki @ http://wiki.bf2s.com/tactical-guides/aviator-tactics

Update, August 2008, videos in better quality:

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Last edited by [CANADA]_Zenmaster (2008-08-24 16:04:50)

slidero
points
+31|5527
I disagree with "machine guns being useless while the enemy jet is turning".

It's way easier to kill a jet while it's just turning as sharp as it can, just keep your distance and lead it.  The guns are highly underused and you don't really risk anything by spamming it when you have missle lock.
comet241
Member
+164|5516|Normal, IL
i dont fly jets, just choppers, but i read the whole post. to add to the helo vs. jet section, i gotta say i rarely ever get shot down by jets. if a jet is dogging me, i just turn and face them directly. i drop flares, fire my rockets, and let the gunner mg/tv them till they die. i have 80 hours or more in the chopper, and this is my proven strategy. just my two cents...
Yellow 13
Member
+2|5485|Plano Texas
AMAZING TIPS! Its nice to finally have a guide to tell me these things
[CANADA]_Zenmaster
Pope Picard II
+473|5497

slidero wrote:

I disagree with "machine guns being useless while the enemy jet is turning".

It's way easier to kill a jet while it's just turning as sharp as it can, just keep your distance and lead it.  The guns are highly underused and you don't really risk anything by spamming it when you have missle lock.

Zenmaster wrote:

- Utilize your MG's vs enemy jets flying straight/slowly in combination with rockets. MG's in turns are pretty useless except to alert the enemy of your presence. Sometimes you can get some good shots off, but you have to fire ahead (read turn faster) then your opponent to do this in a turn.
Please quote the whole concept instead of selectively.

I am not saying you shouldn't use your MGs. I am saying that there are times when you will do considerable damage and other times, including F35B vs MIG29 or J10 where you are wasting your time as you cannot outturn them or even keep up with them. However if they are noobs, by all means light them up, I certainly do that myself.

As you are obviously an accomplished pilot as well, I agree that the MGs are under-used but I am not trying to promote under use:P If you aren't in a tight circle chase scenario, then by all means burst some fire across their bow from a distance.
Yellow 13
Member
+2|5485|Plano Texas
How , O How Do You Start A Thread
Milk.org
Bringing Sexy Back
+270|5527|UK
I've noticed sometimes my bombs drop as pairs and sometimes singles, I did not know this could be changed how do you do this? or are you talking about tapping the drop button?
[CANADA]_Zenmaster
Pope Picard II
+473|5497

Tap it or bomb with the J10 where one runway pass gets you one bomb is all that I do.
slidero
points
+31|5527
Yeah, just saying that there have been many times where a someone with a joystick has tryed to do tight circles to avoid being hit by missiles, then I just blew them out of the sky with the machine gun   Incredibly easy to do against an F-35 (don't even get me started on how shitty it is).
Tetrino
International OMGWTFBBQ
+200|5482|Uhh... erm...
Wow, very useful tips here. Most of the time I NEVER use the MG's.
FSFGrimes
Member
+1|5493
Good read.

Im more of a ground support pilot than I am a air to air pilot, the part about using 1 or 2 bombs I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that. I almost always use two bombs for these reasons. A. More area of damage B.Might not get the points for killing it all the time BUT the target is still destroyed, therefore its good for the team. C. Greater chance target is destroyed

Although the SU-34 is a rather clumsy aircraft, I have used it to great effectiveness on Gulf of Oman and Kubra Dam.

To add to the list of the very important and probably most fun rule of the SU-33, Su-34, and F-15 fighter/bombers

- Find yourself a good co-pilot

- fly in bomb mode for the sole purpose of spoting targets.

-once target is found commence bombing run, but let your CO-PILOT do the work

-Only drop your dumb bombs on large groups of tanks or CPs that are about to be capped

-Don't under estimate how important it is to choose your targets wisly with the dumb bombs. You can litterally keep your prescense on the battlefield for a much longer time if you dont have to reload your bombs. This is important on the massive maps of the game. Kubra Dam, Operation Clean Sweep, and Gulf of Oman/Daqing Oilfields to a lesser extent.

-Air to air combat is difficult but not impossible. Only engage if you catch the pilot by surprise, visually you can tell they are already damaged, or if it is another bomber.

-If you are being tailed, keep turning and burning, but still try to provide your co-pilot with targets of opportunity if they don't have a tone on you.
Masta_Daco
Member
+39|5488|Amsterdam,The Netherlands
yo [CANADA]_Zenmaster thx 4 the flying tips but there are 3 things i have to ask. 1st thing how do you drop single bombs?, 2nd can you MG a tank cuz before the patch i used to destroy tanks with the MG's.Any tips how to fly a bomber like the SU-34 and F-15 cuz when i am flying with a friend and i get chased i usually die cuz i cant make sharp turns with those planes only with fighter's.

Last edited by Masta_Daco (2005-11-22 23:49:23)

[CANADA]_Zenmaster
Pope Picard II
+473|5497

To drop single bombs, tap the bomb release quickly instead of holding it down. Single bombs (or the first bomb dropped in a pair) are more accurate as there is a delay in the second bomb release which will send it farther past your intended target in dual bomb mode. 

Dual bombs are ok on the F35B due to slower flight speed so they will fall closer together, but on the J10 virtually every pilot I've flown with loves single bombs. They are more accurate because you are aiming a single drop - and a second pass virtually guarantees a kill, whereas dual bombs quite often go astray requiring you to go back for a total of four bombs instead of two. This is a pain when your playing the J10 where runways grant you 1 bomb instead of two, so you really have to make them count.

MG fire on a tank does little damage, however I come in guns blazing regardless as my policy is every little bit counts. MG fire vs APC's, especially smoking ones will blow them up pretty quickly. I think we all miss the Warthog from desert combat though Buzzzzzzzzzz boom!

As for flying the bombers, a good gunner is a neccesity for racking up points and will deliver a kill before your bombs can. Fly high in the bombers, if you are getting dogged you can lower your altitude which will yield you a higher velocity to turn and burn as one poster put it. You virtually must keep turning in the bombers to avoid getting lit up, only straightening for your gunner to get his missle out and on target. Flying high also has one major advantage - dive bombing with the su34. On oman this is a license to rape neutral flags and enemy spawn points when they are running low on caps.

Basically, you can dive bomb and release your 5 bombs in a very tight radius when you dive down, often yielding 5-6 kills due to the tight concentration. If you string them out like most lazy people do (cuz its faster to get back to the runway for more bombs), only a few bombs are on target, the others under and over shoot. Dive bombing also gives you an edge of suprise as all 5 bombs fall on top of eachohter giving less notice then when you string them out (they fall slow enough when you string them out that you can move your tank/apc/ground pound it out of the way if you see it coming and only take some splash damage). Dive bombing makes it easier for your gunner to laser missle a target as well because you aren't turning out of their sphere of fire.

When you are being chased continually, you must utilize the landscape and your runways repair ability to get  the enemy to break off. Remember that your runway can not only repair you, but has friendlies on your AA to encourage the enemy jet that they are now in danger too. I fly close to the crane on Oman constantly nipping and tucking waiting for them to collide. If they refuse to break off, I will do curves towards the runway so that I can do a circle around the oil silo repairing and distracting their rockets with the oil flame spout. If you steal the su34 and are on USMC try splitting between the radar towers on the essex - usually they will break off or crash into the essex. The AA on the essex will make them piss off while you circle the runway (afterburners on as often as possible) if you can't get them to crash.

I need to stress this again, never ever ever fly straight in the bombers unless your lining up a kill. You should be power turning all over the place if enemy jets are hounding about. You can't win vs. the other jets but you can do your best to help them crash or break off. You can shoot down noob pilots with the bombers, but noobs can shoot you down if you attempt to fly straight, or upwards even with afterburn. A good jet pilot will take you out sooner or later, you have to accept that with your incredible bombing power comes a weakness as well.

Edit: I need to clarify something after rereading this, when you are fancy flying attempting to make your opponent crash, for Gods sake use your brain! Don't try to line stuff up in advance (like flying straight at the split in the essex) - you have to know where it is in your head so that you can anticipate in advance when you must begin your turn to split the towers properly WHILE doing your turn. Another example: going under the crane, between the crane hook and the crane tower itself requires you to begin your turn in advance, using your foreknowledge of where you have to be and when. If you do not have the practice and skills for this, don't try it. The only reason your enemy will crash is they don't know when to begin the maneuver you have well practiced, they will under or overshoot it and crash. This happens not only because they don't know your executing a planned maneuver, but they are thirsty for a kill and aren't thinking ahead like you are. If you are just trying to fly between them and you line them up straight in advance, your just going to get shot down, you have to trick your opponent into following you blindly, and most people think a bomber is easy enough prey to do just that.

Also another thing I'll do in the bomber, is if I'm getting chased doggedly and I'm desperate and dying, bail out over your runway so that they don't get a kill. You get the bomber again, they get upset that they got no points for chasing you for five minutes, a little bit of training and they will usually let sleeping dogs lie. Most pilots understand that chasing other jets around the sky, while helping their team out, yeilds them much less PPM so they give up pretty easily unless you start a verbal war then it becomes personal.

Last edited by [CANADA]_Zenmaster (2005-11-23 02:44:00)

JeSTeR_Player1
Flying Solo
+98|5521|Canada, Ont
Im never going to read all that...but its true, Jets can Turn Faster if you use a Joystick, but I find you have a Better Control with the Helicopter if you use a Mouse and Keyboard, Sure it takes a while to get a hang of it, but I can Manuver that Air Tank pretty good without a Joy-Shaft.

You can fly no problem without one in a Jet, but in a Dogfight against someone who has one, you have no hope of shaking him, but you can still never get hit if you keep on the move, ...but then you'll just waiste time...just have to wait for the other guy to give up.

Jmbbf is the Best Dogfighter I know.
bait
Member
+0|5487|Louisville, KY
I use a ps2 controller for jets, and my mouse and keyboard for choppers. I rarely fly jets.. i simply dont get any kills in them. I am, however, a beast in a chopper.
-=|BW|=-Hollow_Moon
Member
+5|5506
As resposnive as I find a joystick for plane flight, I would still not switch from a high speed mouse & keyboard, as you really get a greater precision & control of your movements. If I had a big enough desk I would use both
vjs
Member
+19|5522
Thanks for your post [CANADA]_Zenmaster,

I was goig to knock some of it but i checked your ranking, 900th ... I'm basically 3000th, so I'd say we are both pretty experienced and I'll leave the differences to a difference of opinion.

I've always though I was BETTER with the J-10 but it's pretty obvious that the J-10 is just a better jet. I find that that jet is also a little more difficult for noobs to use. No disrespect intended to the nood just don't start with the china jet it's a little over powered and heavy relative the us f-35 or the mec fighter.

First NOT DISAGREEMENT but second opinion:

First on the heli's... if your attacking from the side don't wait until the last minute to fire. I often find myself shooting throught he center of the blackwalk with one of the two missle if I wait too long.  Another option is flying just over the top of the heli, MG MG MG MG then at the last minute fire two or three missles as you fly over... Missle lock doesn't do much since they constanly drop flares any ways.

Another option on helicopters, fly directly towards them with lock and machine gun. They usually panic even tough they are not going to get shot down this is what you want. After you fly past a BH with +5 or so people dive and cut your throttle coming around. A soon as you can start firing MG and get tone. When this happens cut you throttle fully and climb, they will drop flares. Once the flares are dropped start recovering from your stall and let them have it with you missles and MG. Remember you just took out 5 or 6 of them you have time to go back and reload with that under your belt.

My major difference is in the cutting of the throttle... the best bet is to make yourself unpredictable. I find people who fly at 100% throttle all the time are fairly predictable in turns and where they are going to be at what time. ---- Ever try a cobra --- the mec bomber will do this...

I'm not saying that flying around at 100% throttle 90% of the time isn't what I do but under certain circumstances especially in the bomber, just enough throttle to keep you in the air is what you need. Remember the most devistating thing in a bomber is not the pilot its the co-pilot with missles.

The bomber for throttle but it's all co-pilot based. Sometimes it's easier to fly around 400 knts at medium height. Make sure your co-pilot knows your lining him up(CO-pilots do you really think you can kit those targets at 90 degrees flying forward at 400 kts?), if you fly slow and high enough he can usually take out multiple targets on one pass. Now why the above works... First b/c your at medium height when some 100% throttle jockey comes after you simply turn dive and burn.

Flares (to give the noob impression) then Knife edge the plane, followed by full rudder to the ground while pulling back on the stick 100% throttle and afterburn straight for the ground. Level out close to the ground maintaining full after burn. Basically brings you up to full speed in a matter of seconds (becuase you had the height) flying away at 120-270 degrees from your intital run. Attack jets just fly past...


I'd also like to say all pilots should be spending their time in bomb mode as you suggested but flip back and forth. Also you should spend about 30% of your time looking at the HUD and UAV. If there is nobody at one of our flags try MGing the flag, doesn't hurt and I get the odd flag defend that way. Second if a flag ever goes white, guess what your the first line of offense.

----------------------------------------------

PEOPLE PLEASE SPOT CHOPPERS AND JETS YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH THIS HELPS.

____________________________

With all this being said I'd like to make a comment to the potential bomber co-pilots out there. Remember my name VJS and if you see me join my squad and let me know you read this.

The co-pilot should always be looking straight ahead unless we are turning. If I'm flying low and level I'm probably lining you up.

If I ask "DO YOU HAVE A MIC" don't sit there stupid... key your mic and say "YUP" or press pagedown (Yes, this key does exist) I will hear "no sir", at least I know you heard me and I can feed you instructions. Hey I'm not going to try to tell you what to do but after all I am flying and can see more.

Always look as far and straight ahead, since your not in control of crashing there isn't much point to looking out the window or out the sides. Keep your eyes focused on the HUD and make sure there are no blues in front. If there is no blue in front and a big red triangle FIRE FIRE FIRE don't wait for lock. It's also a good idea to relase those missles like they are going out of style. I'll give you time to reload and we are not paying for the ammo. Also they do increadable splash damage so feel free to release them on ground troops, they just ahve to get close for the kill.

I generally don't bomb when flying the bomber when there is only one target. That target is yours not mine. If you have a choice fire at the first one, I'll generally be lining up on the second waiting for you shot. If I'm doing a machine gun straif feel free to unload those missles. Just remember if we are too close to the ground we will get splash damage.

Another interesing one I was with a very good co-pilot, he was able to take out helicopters as we flew over. Very very impressive and great work.

I'm not saying I'm the best by far but a good pilot will make the difference. So please keep the airfeild defended and arm the AA guns to help us bombers out.
DUFFKING
Insert witty comment here
+3|5509|Brixham, UK
I had a quick blast in a Jet on Oman yesterday and quite enjoyed it - shot down 3 enemy planes, and got about 9 kills from bombing

Not bad for a first 'proper' attempt.
[CANADA]_Zenmaster
Pope Picard II
+473|5497

VJS, I will say that cutting your throttle is extremely effective when you are not at risk from other pilots, especially for shooting down blackhawks in the manner you suggest as you get much more time to take them out. 

However, I wrote this with the intent of teaching people how to fly when there are other accomplished pilots in the air. I have to say, if you are a throttle cutter, you are hamburger. Even if the jet chasing you doesnt realize you've cut your throttle - which is rare because you can cut your throttle too when your chasing a throttle cutter - they can still loop on you before you can get to full speed. More so, spotting a throttle cutter is pretty easy if you have flying time, and in addition the F35Bs rear diaphram goes vertical instead of horizontal and its pretty easy to see.

I have seen literally hundreds of people cut their throttles while I'm chasing them, only to recieve rockets up the asshole. Slowing down, even below 90% full speed seems to ensure the missles track properly - I don't know why the code works like this, but missles actually become useful lol. Sometimes I have flown passed them as you say, and looped back while they are accelerating back to full speed, but because they are not at full speed, they are flareless and at your mercy. I have also seen throttle cutters on Wake Island trying to slow their bombing runs on the airfield, or lay down more MG fire then you can at normal speed. Needless to say, if a decent pilot is in the air, they get chewed up - they can't turn and burn out of the way of rockets, the rockets will hit when you go that slow even if you are full afterburners.

I'm not saying your technique doesn't work, I am saying don't use it when there are real threats in the air, as opposed to enemy jets just doing bombing runs on your airfield and leaving you alone lol.

On another note, you are welcome to loose as many missles as you please, the reason I specify how many to loose is that you are increasing the chance for a hit, you have more missles left over, you can take down more targets before reloading, and you have less chance for TKs. This is important in the J10 where missles, bombs, and MG ammo are all low, and also important for the F35B where reloading requires to fly your ass back to the carrier in Wake Island. A J10 runway pass yeilds you 250 MG, 1 bomb, 5 out of 6 missles. An F35B gets fully loaded on a runway pass so you can afford to be trigger happy on maps other then wake.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd like to clarify something that is extremely useful but nobody seems to grasp - you aren't leaving your missle mode on for a long time, waiting for missle lock, then spamming a bunch of missles. The tricks I describe always give me hits because the second you swap into missle mode, you ought to hear a lock within 1-2 seconds, loose a missle, and it will score a hit because of the flying method I describe above. This gives your enemy 1-2 seconds to flare out, afterburn, and change directions if they are a jet, or take flare out and take evasion action if they are a heli. People simply do not flare out fast enough, nor does it matter because you are so close the instant you have missle lock, your missle is away.

The method of flying I describe above, is to get stealthily behind your prey, swap to missle, loose, back into bomb mode, before they even know what hits them. If your flying around keeping missle mode out in advance, you are going to miss with your rockets and give them way too much time to know your coming. E.g. vs. the blackhawk you should come in blazing with MGs but in bomb mode, at the last possible moment switch to missle mode, as soon as you hear lock, loose one missle, and then pull up or knife edge before you collide. Pulling up seems to yield more collisions then kinfe edge as an aside This last moment lock and release gives the pilot virtually no notice they are about to take a rocket up the ass, for all they know someone is being lame on the stingers again or jets are buzzing around etc. Because you are so close when you execute this technique, the missle really has no choice to but to collide with the chopper. Better yet you can do this technique over and over without fear of other jets trying to take you out because you are not sacrificing speed for time on target. It only takes two passes to finish a blackhawk, and one pass to finish and attack chopper - this method is extremely effective and ammo conserving, and better yet you aren't getting missle tks

Last edited by [CANADA]_Zenmaster (2005-11-23 11:03:19)

slidero
points
+31|5527
Try not to spam missles too close to land, you WILL get teamkills.  Even just two stray missles will go straight for a friendly heli and probably won't miss it.
Turtle
Member
+7|5508|Boulder, CO
This is actually one of the better flying guides I've seen floating around these forums. Especially for having been written in the ten mins time it takes to install a game. Kudos. A couple things I would add that I don't think were really addressed were tk's. Don't be the overzealous pilot who tries to help out by shooting down an enemy fighter chasing your teammate in a dogfight by getting locks and firing missiles as fast as you can, esp. while pulling through turns. More often than not, you'll wind up doing the enemy pilot a favor and giving him a damage assist. Also, as a pilot I feel it's your job to try to keep the skies clear (seeing as how aa guns are practically worthless) so any time you see an enemy jet shoot it down...

The afor mentioned note about not firing on enemy pilots in dogfights with teammates brings up a tactic I will use if I find myself outnumbered in the air. So, someone's trying to lock on you, you're having a hard time shaking him but you spot their other pilot making bombing runs. Fly up on him, stay about 100 ft back and keep him turning by continuously locking him and using your mg to wittle his armor down through the turns. If you can get a shot off as he attempts to switch direction, great, otherwise all you have to do most of the time is fly slightly erratically to avoid mg fire and wait for the guy tailing you to release a missile that (if you're quick enough) will pass you and find the thruster of the enemy jet you're chasing. Although this is definately not fool proof and I have shot down numerous planes with missiles who were chasing a teammate it's not that difficult to get good at and more times than not you can get some traffic out of the air.

Again, good guide. This would be good to sticky, or attach to an existing "How to fly" sticky thread.
vjs
Member
+19|5522
I will certainly try your technique, I'm not knocking it badly don't get that impression please.

Word on the cutting of the throttle then... I just find that others fall for the split-s cobra trick far to often.

The knife edgeing on the chopper sounds interesting and in BF who knows what really works anyways. I can certainly kill a BH using my technique in my one pass stall but it does leave you open as you said.

I think your grouping throttle cutters into the noobish catagory however. Sure flying at anything less than 100% throttle keeping 50% AB in reserve is pretty much the only way when you don't have air superiority thats certain. But if your alert coming in a little slower on a MG run allows you additional time to rudder in a few more kills, I'm not talking 350 knts on a fighter I'm saying 550-600 range.

Please if you see me in a server I'd love have you chase me, havn't found many people I can't get away from even in the bomber. Also note that spending most of your time dogfighting other jets is a waste of the aircraft, as is dogfighting or taking out helicpters in the bomber. Sure if the oportunity presents itself...

I've just had alot of success in the mec bomber on gulf of oman or either bomber on cleansweep using my techniques.

Mec bomber on gulf, keep it close to home, bomb the enemy flag with a good co-pilot and capture all the land bases. Then rape the carrier won't there be more people there??? Too many times I'm playing a map some takes the bomber out, dogfighting, chopper killing, turn turn turn never giving the co-pilot a chance, and we loose. Sure they kill some and don't die but how effective are they? Take the odd death from flying slow but rack up the points. On numerous occasions I've placed 2nd and my co-pilot 1st using my technique.

Regardless thanks for the advise and I'll certainly try your style for a few games and see if my scores improve. But for the bomber I can't agree slow and medium height is the only way when you have the chance and a good co-pilot. There is alot of potential energy in altittude.
tF-voodoochild
Pew Pew!
+216|5599|San Francisco

[CANADA]_Zenmaster wrote:

-Also, I was not able to find a way to accept the radio "spotted" command from the joystick, which would be handy because you could "spot" the plane you are chasing and follow where he goes on the minimap easier; however, you can bring up the spotted menu with your joystick (POV UP for me) and then press mouse 1 to accept the command. This is useless in a dog fight unless you're fast, but handy for spotting enemy jets chasing an ally jet to help your team out.
I managed to find a really spiffy little program called "JoyToKey" that I find absolutely invaluable when flying in bf2. It has the ability to set certain key to toggle functionality of other keys on your joystick (for instance I have a key on the side that when held down allows me to use mouse look by moving my pov hat around...) and this would work wonders for issues such as spotting enemy vehicles by simply setting one button on your joystick to whatever your key is for the spotting menu and then make the joystick button also toggle your trigger to mouse click 1. Also, you can set multiple joystick profiles and set a button to toggle between them if you wish to have different settings for jets compared to choppers etc.


update: This program has apparently become rather difficult to find in English since the author is from Japan, so I apologize for this link to a forums, but it was the only place I could find the latest version in English. Here it is, JoyToKey 3.79 En
[CANADA]_Zenmaster
Pope Picard II
+473|5497

tF-voodoochild wrote:

JoyToKey 3.79 En
I <3 u.

Edit: Mapping mouse1 to joystick trigger allows you to use the spotted command from the jet and still fire MG. Hawt.

Last edited by [CANADA]_Zenmaster (2005-11-23 15:18:14)

tF-voodoochild
Pew Pew!
+216|5599|San Francisco

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