I cant watch this shit, Its sad, I saw one bull fighter once when I went to visit my grandmother, After the show, 40 guys kicked his ass.
That stuff is sad to see. But it happens every day. havn't you ever seen a deer on the side of the road. the Sloughter houses do things like that too. Some times its just too difficult for them to do it the right way when things get busy.
Its sad BUT I'm not willing to give up meat or meat products. ARE YOU?
Its sad BUT I'm not willing to give up meat or meat products. ARE YOU?
yeah same. i never eat the meat from my school, becuase i know its of the worst quality possibleScorpion0x17 wrote:
And, when I can, I buy free-range or organic.
WTF? Urgh, need to go vomit somewhere.
Why don't they just shoot the bull afterwards?
Why don't they just shoot the bull afterwards?
Last edited by some_random_panda (2006-11-13 12:36:10)
Why 'afterwards'? Why not just shoot the bull. Sod all the cruelty that goes with it.some_random_panda wrote:
WTF? Urgh, need to go vomit somewhere.
Why don't they just shoot the bull afterwards?
The U.S is regulated too, and that's not stopping anything. I can't make an educated statement on how the U.K treats its meat. But no, it's not a minority. Almost all slaughterhouses pump growth hormones into their meat, and to more species then just chicken. Almost all slaughterhouses don't accommodate the proper amount of space for its vast number of animals. Almost all slaughterhouses have large numbers of animals who end up lame or crippled. That video points out problems that occur in all slaughterhouses, just in varying degrees and number. There is nothing humane about the definition of a slaughterhouse. It's systematically killing a mass amount of life, in a predetermined amount of time. Hell, did you watch that video and hear the official numbers? That's a lot of animals. Let's not be neglectful because of wishful thinking. It is a prominent problem.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Yes, it is a small minority. I don't know what country you're in, but here in the UK slaughter houses are regulated and all regulated slaughterhouses kill the animals in a human manner. What happens after that isn't pleasant, but the animal is dead before any of that happens.Dec45 wrote:
It's not a small minority of the companies man... Beyond that, if it was... It's still millions of animals. My point is not that you'll agree with it, it's just that I can guarantee if you've bought meat from a market you've financially supported the torture of animals... Well, unless you're buying kosher. So it seems funny to me that people would whine about bullfighting.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
You want to start a thread about the cruelty that there is in the a small miniority of the meat production trade and I'll bitch about that too.
Cruelty is cruelty whether it's done for tradition or profit.
The real cruelty in modern meat production is not in the slaughterhouses it's in things like factory farmed chickens where they have 40,000 chickens couped up in a shed with very little space to move, no chance to go outside, no chance to do normal chickeny things. They're also fed growth hormones so that they grow at unnatural rates in order for them to be ready to slaughter within the shortest possible amount of time.
And, when I can, I buy free-range or organic.
I've been to my share of slaughterhouses and poultry farms and never seen anything like what they are portraying as standard practice in that film. some of what they show (slitting the pigs throats/beheading the chickens) is simply unavoidable. i understand it's alarming to those that have never been exposed to stuff like that before, but when you stick your first pig or break your first chicken neck, and see it go straight to the kitchen and eat it that same night before you're even old enough to drive you do respect your meat. i still don't understand how you can see a bull die from a slit throat and think that's more cruel than a lance, 6 spears, a sword, and a dagger. that "the bull can fight back" argument doesn't work either, when was the last time a bull left the ring alive? I can tell you that more hunting trips end without anything to show for it than do.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
You want to start a thread about the cruelty that there is in the a small miniority of the meat production trade and I'll bitch about that too.Dec45 wrote:
This was exactly my point from the beginning... The systematic slaughter of animals, that desensitizes our respect for their sacrifice, to the systematic scarfing of our McDonald's hamburgers without second thought. If you eat meat from a market, the chances you have eaten an animal that was put through an extreme amount of torture is incredibly high. Yet people have the nerve to get on here and bitch about a bullfight or a fuckin' rodeo. It's flat out ridiculous. I think people need to wake the fuck up. Bullfighting is one of the most honorable ways an animal can be killed for food. They are bred healthy and strong, and in the end get a chance to fight back. In more ways then I can describe, including the ones I have, bullfighting is much more humane then any slaughterhouse that provides us with majority of our meat.
Cruelty is cruelty whether it's done for tradition or profit.
I want to see a receipt from Alec Baldwin's last restaurant visit.
approximately how many slaughterhouses (which, btw, have nothing to do with how the livestock is raised) ahve you been to dec45? granted, i haven't been to any bullfights, but there's not really any dispute as to what happens, even the "bloodless" fights end up scarring the animal for life
Last edited by kr@cker (2006-11-13 14:48:51)
I dont think the brain of chickens is evolved enough to get bored of not being able to move... My statement may seem illogical but those animals or almost vegetables. They feel pain but thats all, they dont care if they move or not. Those animals are sort of robots that act to their instinct. The concept of pleasure is absent for them. But yeah I must admit there is the hormones thing that make them bigger and make them feel pain in their legs.
edit : I just saw kr@acker's post and I completely agree.
edit : I just saw kr@acker's post and I completely agree.
Last edited by -=raska=- (2006-11-13 14:27:45)
Sick.
Guys, I dont like what they do as much as you, but you must understand something. When you grow up with a tradition, you view it as being ok and nothing bad. It's just like us growing up with all the sports we have. They don't realize that they are being cruel, it's just natural in their society, and when you grow up with it, it becomes a harmless, part of your life. Those men don't do it always for bravery and honor. Many of them treat this just as a pro football player would with his sport.
When you see societies that do things in your opinion are outragious, take a step back and think what it would have been like if you were born there and had lived with it your entire life...
When you see societies that do things in your opinion are outragious, take a step back and think what it would have been like if you were born there and had lived with it your entire life...
No I haven't been to a slaughterhouse personally, I have only researched their techniques. I'm not a vegetarian, and I'm fully aware I've funded such acts, as the ones you see in that video. It's pretty unavoidable. Really though, you're judging pain for another being. Why? I find it completely debatable as to which path of life is more painful. To be locked into a confined space for the span of your life, until the day you are chosen to have your throat slit? Or to be bred healthy and strong, so one day you can fight a matador until you are killed. As it has been pointed out, skilled matadors kill bulls swiftly, and that is the intention. The slitting of a throat is a painful, prolonged process of death every time. I don't see my way of looking at it as unreasonable. I find the life of a bull in a bullfight much more honorable, then the life of an animal on "death row". I also sincerely believe that if bullfighting wasn't a public spectacle, and a bullfighter raised his own bull to fight, kill and eat it himself in the privacy of his own home, it would be considered much more acceptable.kr@cker wrote:
I've been to my share of slaughterhouses and poultry farms and never seen anything like what they are portraying as standard practice in that film. some of what they show (slitting the pigs throats/beheading the chickens) is simply unavoidable. i understand it's alarming to those that have never been exposed to stuff like that before, but when you stick your first pig or break your first chicken neck, and see it go straight to the kitchen and eat it that same night before you're even old enough to drive you do respect your meat. i still don't understand how you can see a bull die from a slit throat and think that's more cruel than a lance, 6 spears, a sword, and a dagger. that "the bull can fight back" argument doesn't work either, when was the last time a bull left the ring alive? I can tell you that more hunting trips end without anything to show for it than do.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
You want to start a thread about the cruelty that there is in the a small miniority of the meat production trade and I'll bitch about that too.Dec45 wrote:
This was exactly my point from the beginning... The systematic slaughter of animals, that desensitizes our respect for their sacrifice, to the systematic scarfing of our McDonald's hamburgers without second thought. If you eat meat from a market, the chances you have eaten an animal that was put through an extreme amount of torture is incredibly high. Yet people have the nerve to get on here and bitch about a bullfight or a fuckin' rodeo. It's flat out ridiculous. I think people need to wake the fuck up. Bullfighting is one of the most honorable ways an animal can be killed for food. They are bred healthy and strong, and in the end get a chance to fight back. In more ways then I can describe, including the ones I have, bullfighting is much more humane then any slaughterhouse that provides us with majority of our meat.
Cruelty is cruelty whether it's done for tradition or profit.
I want to see a receipt from Alec Baldwin's last restaurant visit.
approximately how many slaughterhouses (which, btw, have nothing to do with how the livestock is raised) ahve you been to dec45? granted, i haven't been to any bullfights, but there's not really any dispute as to what happens, even the "bloodless" fights end up scarring the animal for life
Last edited by Dec45 (2006-11-13 15:37:27)
(highlights and emphasis added by me)Dec45 wrote:
The U.S is regulated too, and that's not stopping anything. I can't make an educated statement on how the U.K treats its meat. But no, it's not a minority. Almost all slaughterhouses pump growth hormones into their meat, and to more species then just chicken. Almost all slaughterhouses don't accommodate the proper amount of space for its vast number of animals. Almost all slaughterhouses have large numbers of animals who end up lame or crippled. That video points out problems that occur in all slaughterhouses, just in varying degrees and number. There is nothing humane about the definition of a slaughterhouse. It's systematically killing a mass amount of life, in a predetermined amount of time. Hell, did you watch that video and hear the official numbers? That's a lot of animals. Let's not be neglectful because of wishful thinking. It is a prominent problem.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Yes, it is a small minority. I don't know what country you're in, but here in the UK slaughter houses are regulated and all regulated slaughterhouses kill the animals in a human manner. What happens after that isn't pleasant, but the animal is dead before any of that happens.Dec45 wrote:
It's not a small minority of the companies man... Beyond that, if it was... It's still millions of animals. My point is not that you'll agree with it, it's just that I can guarantee if you've bought meat from a market you've financially supported the torture of animals... Well, unless you're buying kosher. So it seems funny to me that people would whine about bullfighting.
The real cruelty in modern meat production is not in the slaughterhouses it's in things like factory farmed chickens where they have 40,000 chickens couped up in a shed with very little space to move, no chance to go outside, no chance to do normal chickeny things. They're also fed growth hormones so that they grow at unnatural rates in order for them to be ready to slaughter within the shortest possible amount of time.
And, when I can, I buy free-range or organic.
Thankyou. You have just demonstrated what a complete and utter lack of knowledge you really have on the subject. Slaughterhouses do no such thing. Slaughterhouses kill the animals that have been raised on FARMS. Factory farms do that sort of thing. Not slaughterhouses.
http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/monkeysphere.html
Last edited by Scorpion0x17 (2006-11-14 06:05:44)
still in eight states i've never seen anything like what they describe, even in putnam county, the dairy capital of georgia, all the dairy cattle are free range and literally walk into the milking house without coaxing every day. while there is really only one way to run a poultry farm with those large houses like that, every one that i've seen is remarkably clean considering it's filled with a few thousand birds, and naturally when a farm produces that many birds you have some with health problems. standard practice has always been to snap their necks or cutoff their heads.
Yeah, that's why I specifically said factory farms. It does go on, but again, it is only a minority of farms that treat animals in that way.kr@cker wrote:
still in eight states i've never seen anything like what they describe, even in putnam county, the dairy capital of georgia, all the dairy cattle are free range and literally walk into the milking house without coaxing every day. while there is really only one way to run a poultry farm with those large houses like that, every one that i've seen is remarkably clean considering it's filled with a few thousand birds, and naturally when a farm produces that many birds you have some with health problems. standard practice has always been to snap their necks or cutoff their heads.
I'm sorry, I see your point, but it is moot. Cruelty is cruelty fullstop.eagles1106 wrote:
Guys, I dont like what they do as much as you, but you must understand something. When you grow up with a tradition, you view it as being ok and nothing bad. It's just like us growing up with all the sports we have. They don't realize that they are being cruel, it's just natural in their society, and when you grow up with it, it becomes a harmless, part of your life. Those men don't do it always for bravery and honor. Many of them treat this just as a pro football player would with his sport.
When you see societies that do things in your opinion are outragious, take a step back and think what it would have been like if you were born there and had lived with it your entire life...
But many traditions have to be put in history books, and society must go on. The times of animal and humans sacrifices, which were comon in cultures of all continents in the past, are pretty much gone. Why? Because society evolved.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
I'm sorry, I see your point, but it is moot. Cruelty is cruelty fullstop.eagles1106 wrote:
Guys, I dont like what they do as much as you, but you must understand something. When you grow up with a tradition, you view it as being ok and nothing bad. It's just like us growing up with all the sports we have. They don't realize that they are being cruel, it's just natural in their society, and when you grow up with it, it becomes a harmless, part of your life. Those men don't do it always for bravery and honor. Many of them treat this just as a pro football player would with his sport.
When you see societies that do things in your opinion are outragious, take a step back and think what it would have been like if you were born there and had lived with it your entire life...
Such cruel traditions in today's world is plain stupid, the argument that they "don't realize its cruel" is crap. We are not talking about some isolated tribe in the middle of the Amazon...
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Oh man i love it when a matador gets hit by a bull, i don't even know why they even call this a sport if u want the animal to be dead than why dont just finish him off quickly instead of letting him suffer.
i do want a burger now though................
i dont know if it will help, i saw the video on here and signed up name up, so i thought i would post it on here....click on the link below to sign a petition against it
http://wspa.org.uk/pet_bullfighting.asp
http://wspa.org.uk/pet_bullfighting.asp
Yeah, kind of like kids who grow up with KKK parents. It's all they know, right?eagles1106 wrote:
Guys, I dont like what they do as much as you, but you must understand something. When you grow up with a tradition, you view it as being ok and nothing bad.
"We burn crosses, because it's what our pappy's done did. That and lynching, all tradition. Nothing wrong with that, right?"
Exactly.Erkut.hv wrote:
Yeah, kind of like kids who grow up with KKK parents. It's all they know, right?eagles1106 wrote:
Guys, I dont like what they do as much as you, but you must understand something. When you grow up with a tradition, you view it as being ok and nothing bad.
"We burn crosses, because it's what our pappy's done did. That and lynching, all tradition. Nothing wrong with that, right?"
dude im eating bloddy breakfast.
Last edited by ozzie_johnson (2006-11-14 13:22:22)
You freakin eat burgers and steaks everyday, so wtf? I saw the video and thats not part of the show. You can even see how the handlers are trying to kill it quickly. Bottom line is its a sport. You don't taalk shit about race horses who suffeer a bunch of horrible accidents just to be killeed when they can't race. Racsist bastards.Erkut.hv wrote:
Yeah, kind of like kids who grow up with KKK parents. It's all they know, right?eagles1106 wrote:
Guys, I dont like what they do as much as you, but you must understand something. When you grow up with a tradition, you view it as being ok and nothing bad.
"We burn crosses, because it's what our pappy's done did. That and lynching, all tradition. Nothing wrong with that, right?"
Viva Mexico!!
Last edited by rawls2 (2006-11-14 13:33:37)
Well then, I guess that does prove all of my points wrong by my mislabeling.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
(highlights and emphasis added by me)Dec45 wrote:
The U.S is regulated too, and that's not stopping anything. I can't make an educated statement on how the U.K treats its meat. But no, it's not a minority. Almost all slaughterhouses pump growth hormones into their meat, and to more species then just chicken. Almost all slaughterhouses don't accommodate the proper amount of space for its vast number of animals. Almost all slaughterhouses have large numbers of animals who end up lame or crippled. That video points out problems that occur in all slaughterhouses, just in varying degrees and number. There is nothing humane about the definition of a slaughterhouse. It's systematically killing a mass amount of life, in a predetermined amount of time. Hell, did you watch that video and hear the official numbers? That's a lot of animals. Let's not be neglectful because of wishful thinking. It is a prominent problem.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Yes, it is a small minority. I don't know what country you're in, but here in the UK slaughter houses are regulated and all regulated slaughterhouses kill the animals in a human manner. What happens after that isn't pleasant, but the animal is dead before any of that happens.
The real cruelty in modern meat production is not in the slaughterhouses it's in things like factory farmed chickens where they have 40,000 chickens couped up in a shed with very little space to move, no chance to go outside, no chance to do normal chickeny things. They're also fed growth hormones so that they grow at unnatural rates in order for them to be ready to slaughter within the shortest possible amount of time.
And, when I can, I buy free-range or organic.
Thankyou. You have just demonstrated what a complete and utter lack of knowledge you really have on the subject. Slaughterhouses do no such thing. Slaughterhouses kill the animals that have been raised on FARMS. Factory farms do that sort of thing. Not slaughterhouses.
http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/monkeysphere.html
Well... Actually it doesn't. In fact, it doesn't prove anything except that I mislabeled.
I also completely don't understand how that monkeysphere link was relevant to anything I said. Enlighten me.
Yeah except one is an animal's life killed out of respect, and the other is a human's life killed out of hate. The two are completely interchangeable. Right...Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Exactly.Erkut.hv wrote:
Yeah, kind of like kids who grow up with KKK parents. It's all they know, right?eagles1106 wrote:
Guys, I dont like what they do as much as you, but you must understand something. When you grow up with a tradition, you view it as being ok and nothing bad.
"We burn crosses, because it's what our pappy's done did. That and lynching, all tradition. Nothing wrong with that, right?"