thats fucking sick, i could only watch the first 5 seconds of it
Does anyone read?? THE MATADOR SUCKED. THIS WAS A RARE OCCURENCE. The whole goal of the killing is to do it instantly. You saw one of the worst bull killings and then you decide that it's the standard. The video I posted is the standard. If you were paying attention to the first video, you'd see that no one in the crowd is cheering and the people leaving are not pleased.Snipedya14 wrote:
That bull was coughing blood up and was still moving around far more than that.
There aren't very many people here willing to learn. They're programmed to feel a certain way, and aren't interested in alternative ways of thinking, or even knowledge about the sport itself. (Such as the donation of meat). They don't want the truth, they just want an answer.Homeschtar wrote:
Does anyone read?? THE MATADOR SUCKED. THIS WAS A RARE OCCURENCE. The whole goal of the killing is to do it instantly. You saw one of the worst bull killings and then you decide that it's the standard. The video I posted is the standard. If you were paying attention to the first video, you'd see that no one in the crowd is cheering and the people leaving are not pleased.Snipedya14 wrote:
That bull was coughing blood up and was still moving around far more than that.
Yes. But by now we've pretty much established that the example in the original post was a 'bad' kill.Snipedya14 wrote:
While I hunt, I do not Bow hunt for this exact reason. It is slow and painful way of dying.
Ok, so I miss a direct kill, that deer will go through about 30 seconds of pain and suffering while I take my second shot to the head. That bull was coughing blood up and was still moving around far more than that.
I'm starting to sway towards agreeing that it's no worse (or better) than hunting. It's a blood sport and that means there's blood. For people who aren't used to seeing blood spray everywhere when an animal's killed, I can see why it's upsetting, but bull fighters aren't the only ones to kill animals for sport.
We have rodeos in Australia too.Dec45 wrote:
Couldn't pass up an opportunity to talk about America, huh?Bubbalo wrote:
Also, does anyone honestly think life is any better for American rodeo bulls?
Last edited by cospengle (2006-11-12 19:17:34)
the boar is stabbed through the chest cavity in an effort to puncture the heart and lung, if you compare the size of the blade to the body mass it would be the equivalent to attacking the bull with a backhoeDec45 wrote:
So you don't condone the stabbing of a bull in a fight, but you condone the stabbing of a wild boar by knife?
and @ the "instant kill vid", even that bull has 5 or 6 spears in it's neck, and was taunted for several minutes before the kill
rodeo bulls are treated like gods, even if you doubt the owner's humanitarianism, a healthy full spirited bull is a guaranteed bankrollDec45 wrote:
Couldn't pass up an opportunity to talk about America, huh?Bubbalo wrote:
Yes, actually.cospengle wrote:
Thread title: This is sick. What did you expect, a Kylie Minogue video clip?
Also, does anyone honestly think life is any better for American rodeo bulls?
It seems the idea is to put the sword through the heart of the bull, thus killing it instantly. I think the heart of a bull is near the spine between the shoulder blade (it is in sheep anyway). But does anyone know what the coloured things are for?
Yes, that is part of bullfighting. But as you can see:kr@cker wrote:
and @ the "instant kill vid", even that bull has 5 or 6 spears in it's neck, and was taunted for several minutes before the kill
The spears used are the ones in the middle, labeled "2". Those points just stick in the skin. They aren't there to hurt the bull, they are only there to anger it so that it puts up a more ferocious fight. Sometimes the matador also uses them to alter the way the bull charges, but they don't hurt the bull much.
Last edited by Homeschtar (2006-11-12 19:25:19)
those are the ones solely used to sever the muscles supporting the bull's head, so the matador can taunt it longer, completely unnecessary if you're "going for the quick kill"
Wrong. Like I said, they are used to alter the charging pattern and/or to anger the bull.kr@cker wrote:
those are the ones solely used to sever the muscles supporting the bull's head, so the matador can taunt it longer, completely unnecessary if you're "going for the quick kill"
The man has a point though, those bulls have extremely high pain tolerance and it doesn't appear to phase the bull very much. I would be more comfortable with a scientific estimate of the bull's pain tolerance, rather then assuming it feels how we'd feel with short spears in our backs.kr@cker wrote:
the boar is stabbed through the chest cavity in an effort to puncture the heart and lung, if you compare the size of the blade to the body mass it would be the equivalent to attacking the bull with a backhoeDec45 wrote:
So you don't condone the stabbing of a bull in a fight, but you condone the stabbing of a wild boar by knife?
and @ the "instant kill vid", even that bull has 5 or 6 spears in it's neck, and was taunted for several minutes before the kill
I'm not sure I understand about the boars... This is assuming you catch a wild boar in your hands?
It's a bull... who cares? Anyway, as others have said here, the meat industry kills bulls and cows in far less "humane" ways.
Personally, I'm a lot more concerned about how humans treat EACH OTHER than by how they treat animals. Let's fix human rights before we deal with animal ones.
Personally, I'm a lot more concerned about how humans treat EACH OTHER than by how they treat animals. Let's fix human rights before we deal with animal ones.
ppl need to learn some respect for animals how would they like it they were killed like that
usually pin it in with pit bulls, they're trained to immobilize itDec45 wrote:
The man has a point though, those bulls have extremely high pain tolerance and it doesn't appear to phase the bull very much. I would be more comfortable with a scientific estimate of the bull's pain tolerance, rather then assuming it feels how we'd feel with short spears in our backs.kr@cker wrote:
the boar is stabbed through the chest cavity in an effort to puncture the heart and lung, if you compare the size of the blade to the body mass it would be the equivalent to attacking the bull with a backhoeDec45 wrote:
So you don't condone the stabbing of a bull in a fight, but you condone the stabbing of a wild boar by knife?
and @ the "instant kill vid", even that bull has 5 or 6 spears in it's neck, and was taunted for several minutes before the kill
I'm not sure I understand about the boars... This is assuming you catch a wild boar in your hands?
Given that a large proportion of posters are American, and are criticising the matadors....................Dec45 wrote:
Couldn't pass up an opportunity to talk about America, huh?
I'm certainly not trying to condemn the sport you're describing, but I fail to see how siccing pit bulls on a wild boar, then stabbing it is any better then puncturing a bull's shoulders and back of neck, then stabbing it. They in fact sound very much alike. Hunting sports.kr@cker wrote:
usually pin it in with pit bulls, they're trained to immobilize itDec45 wrote:
The man has a point though, those bulls have extremely high pain tolerance and it doesn't appear to phase the bull very much. I would be more comfortable with a scientific estimate of the bull's pain tolerance, rather then assuming it feels how we'd feel with short spears in our backs.kr@cker wrote:
the boar is stabbed through the chest cavity in an effort to puncture the heart and lung, if you compare the size of the blade to the body mass it would be the equivalent to attacking the bull with a backhoe
and @ the "instant kill vid", even that bull has 5 or 6 spears in it's neck, and was taunted for several minutes before the kill
I'm not sure I understand about the boars... This is assuming you catch a wild boar in your hands?
And I learn something new......................cospengle wrote:
We have rodeos in Australia too.
Except that the two are treated completely differently, and the latter isn't killed.Bubbalo wrote:
Given that a large proportion of posters are American, and are criticising the matadors....................Dec45 wrote:
Couldn't pass up an opportunity to talk about America, huh?
First off, I am current enrolled in a University, a member of the Private Free-Press Newspaper and a member of the Progressive action committee. Dont pull "not interested in alternative ways of thinking" bullshit on me. I frequent D&ST quite often and you can view many of my view points in other threads. Programmed to feel a certain way? You mean compassion? Yea I guess I have a little of that.Dec45 wrote:
There aren't very many people here willing to learn. They're programmed to feel a certain way, and aren't interested in alternative ways of thinking, or even knowledge about the sport itself. (Such as the donation of meat). They don't want the truth, they just want an answer.Homeschtar wrote:
Does anyone read?? THE MATADOR SUCKED. THIS WAS A RARE OCCURENCE. The whole goal of the killing is to do it instantly. You saw one of the worst bull killings and then you decide that it's the standard. The video I posted is the standard. If you were paying attention to the first video, you'd see that no one in the crowd is cheering and the people leaving are not pleased.Snipedya14 wrote:
That bull was coughing blood up and was still moving around far more than that.
Secondly,
I do not care if this was rare or not, you are taking a living, breathing creature and trying to stick it with a sword.
Instant kills are not the standard, as you said
Well how many of the "best" are there.The best matadors kill instantly.
End Point
While I hunt, I do not condone the barbaric stabbing of a bull just for the shit of it. And while you are quick with your words, you seem to be the minority of the opinions
Yeah, you've got a point. I mean, the rodeos are probably leaping for joy, not trying to throw the weight off their back. Completely humane.Dec45 wrote:
Except that the two are treated completely differently, and the latter isn't killed.
well the thing is with boars that they have a thick plate of gristle starting behind the skull and protecting much of it's primary organs, i've seen some with rather large caliber rifle rounds embedded in their backs, in fact my dad and our neighbor dropped one in the everglades with 3 rounds, only to find someone had already shot it once before they got it. it was infected and couldn't be eaten. a knife is about the only sure way to drop one.Dec45 wrote:
I'm certainly not trying to condemn the sport you're describing, but I fail to see how siccing pit bulls on a wild boar, then stabbing it is any better then puncturing a bull's shoulders and back of neck, then stabbing it. They in fact sound very much alike. Hunting sports.kr@cker wrote:
usually pin it in with pit bulls, they're trained to immobilize itDec45 wrote:
The man has a point though, those bulls have extremely high pain tolerance and it doesn't appear to phase the bull very much. I would be more comfortable with a scientific estimate of the bull's pain tolerance, rather then assuming it feels how we'd feel with short spears in our backs.
I'm not sure I understand about the boars... This is assuming you catch a wild boar in your hands?
I agree. I do not like bullfighting, I've seen it but I do not watch it, I am just explaining that it isn't as big a deal as everyone is making it compared to many other things that are similar.Snipedya14 wrote:
Secondly,
I do not care if this was rare or not, you are taking a living, breathing creature and trying to stick it with a sword.
Good point, I should have clarified that I meant for the matadors that kill in stadiums and draw crowds it is the standard. I consider them the "best". If you take into consideration "noob" matadors, then you are right, instant kills are not the standard.Snipedya14 wrote:
Instant kills are not the standard, as you said
"The best matadors kill instantly."
Well how many of the "best" are there.
In defense of the killing being just for fun, the meat is donated, usually to orphanages, and eaten that night.Snipedya14 wrote:
While I hunt, I do not condone the barbaric stabbing of a bull just for the shit of it.
Does that make me wrong?Snipedya14 wrote:
And while you are quick with your words, you seem to be the minority of the opinions
He is completely rightSnipedya14 wrote:
First off, I am current enrolled in a University, a member of the Private Free-Press Newspaper and a member of the Progressive action committee. Dont pull "not interested in alternative ways of thinking" bullshit on me. I frequent D&ST quite often and you can view many of my view points in other threads. Programmed to feel a certain way? You mean compassion? Yea I guess I have a little of that.Dec45 wrote:
There aren't very many people here willing to learn. They're programmed to feel a certain way, and aren't interested in alternative ways of thinking, or even knowledge about the sport itself. (Such as the donation of meat). They don't want the truth, they just want an answer.Homeschtar wrote:
Does anyone read?? THE MATADOR SUCKED. THIS WAS A RARE OCCURENCE. The whole goal of the killing is to do it instantly. You saw one of the worst bull killings and then you decide that it's the standard. The video I posted is the standard. If you were paying attention to the first video, you'd see that no one in the crowd is cheering and the people leaving are not pleased.
Secondly,
I do not care if this was rare or not, you are taking a living, breathing creature and trying to stick it with a sword.
Instant kills are not the standard, as you saidWell how many of the "best" are there.The best matadors kill instantly.
End Point
While I hunt, I do not condone the barbaric stabbing of a bull just for the shit of it. And while you are quick with your words, you seem to be the minority of the opinions
maybe the goal of the sport is to kill bulls instantly, but we have no percentage of how many times it happens. The problem is that the way the sport is made, the bull may die in 1 seconds like in 1 minute. Its not : "you kill it instantly or you dont kill it at all". Its : "kill it in 1 second you are good, but you can kill it in 30 seconds and its not too bad"... The sport is made so bulls can suffer during 1 second like 30 seconds or 1 minute, yes there is a goal to reach but matadors dont reach it everytime...
First off, of course it does not make you wrong, but it does show the general consensus, which is something that cant be ignored.Homeschtar wrote:
I agree. I do not like bullfighting, I've seen it but I do not watch it, I am just explaining that it isn't as big a deal as everyone is making it compared to many other things that are similar.Snipedya14 wrote:
Secondly,
I do not care if this was rare or not, you are taking a living, breathing creature and trying to stick it with a sword.Good point, I should have clarified that I meant for the matadors that kill in stadiums and draw crowds it is the standard. I consider them the "best". If you take into consideration "noob" matadors, then you are right, instant kills are not the standard.Snipedya14 wrote:
Instant kills are not the standard, as you said
"The best matadors kill instantly."
Well how many of the "best" are there.In defense of the killing being just for fun, the meat is donated, usually to orphanages, and eaten that night.Snipedya14 wrote:
While I hunt, I do not condone the barbaric stabbing of a bull just for the shit of it.Does that make me wrong?Snipedya14 wrote:
And while you are quick with your words, you seem to be the minority of the opinions
Secondly, while I acknowledge the meat is donated, which I suppose is a noble act, it would seem to me that shooting it in the head with a large caliber rifle would be alot more effective if you are really looking at it.
True. I am not trying to defend bullfighting as a sport, I am just trying to defend it from the accusations that it is SO much worse than anything else that has to do with animals and pain.Snipedya14 wrote:
Secondly, while I acknowledge the meat is donated, which I suppose is a noble act, it would seem to me that shooting it in the head with a large caliber rifle would be alot more effective if you are really looking at it.