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Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,968|3839|London, England

uziq wrote:

iraq just voted to expel america from the country, with a majority in parliament. which is about the same thing as saying iraq is now a vassal state for iran (maliki was firmly under the thumb of soleimani).

thread closed. america you lost.
"The majority of about 180 legislators present in Parliament voted in favor of the resolution. It was backed by most Shiite members of parliament, who hold a majority of seats. Many Sunni and Kurdish legislators did not show up for the session, apparently because they oppose abolishing the deal.

But the Iraqi Parliament vote doesn't mean that the U.S. military has to leave the country immediately. It's a non-binding vote, which is seen as mostly symbolic.

The 5,000 U.S. troops are in Iraq at the invitation fo the country's executive branch, the Prime Minister's officer -- not Parliament. It is up to the Iraqi Prime Minister whether the troops will be expelled."
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,968|3839|London, England
Hey, maybe this finally gets us out of the middle east. This is mostly Europe's problem at this point anyway. You're the ones dependent on middle eastern oil and are being outbred by the millions of muslims you let in.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
uziq
Member
+190|1933

Jay wrote:

Hey, maybe this finally gets us out of the middle east. This is mostly Europe's problem at this point anyway. You're the ones dependent on middle eastern oil and are being outbred by the millions of muslims you let in.


jay you never go full retard. ‘white replacement theory’, wow, which part of the trump-white power, national review axis did you skim that from?

also i’m pretty sure we never relied on iraq/afghan or iran for our oil. we have the same oil-trading allies as you do in the region, retard. if iran chooses to target saudi oil installations or shipping, the price hits will affect the world market, not europe.

and when iran develops a nuke, it will be the world's problem.

Last edited by uziq (2020-01-05 11:37:14)

uziq
Member
+190|1933

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

iraq just voted to expel america from the country, with a majority in parliament. which is about the same thing as saying iraq is now a vassal state for iran (maliki was firmly under the thumb of soleimani).

thread closed. america you lost.
"The majority of about 180 legislators present in Parliament voted in favor of the resolution. It was backed by most Shiite members of parliament, who hold a majority of seats. Many Sunni and Kurdish legislators did not show up for the session, apparently because they oppose abolishing the deal.

But the Iraqi Parliament vote doesn't mean that the U.S. military has to leave the country immediately. It's a non-binding vote, which is seen as mostly symbolic.

The 5,000 U.S. troops are in Iraq at the invitation fo the country's executive branch, the Prime Minister's officer -- not Parliament. It is up to the Iraqi Prime Minister whether the troops will be expelled."
the point being you have lost the struggle over iraq’s future, it’s not your project and you have no direction in it, the war of ideas has been lost, the iraqi prime ministership was at the behest of iran from the very start, when you were all clapping yourselves on the back at having made a ‘democracy’. you just spent 15 years, trillions of dollars and thousands of american lives to deliver iraq into the arms of your biggest enemy in the region.

it hardly matters if the vote has the actual executive power to dispel the troops. it’s an indication of where their allegiances lie.

soleimani outplayed you throughout the insurgency and infancy of the republic, he was an insider to iraq's establishment and had the armed militias at his call; and him being killed is the biggest play of all, you've helped him achieve his wildest dreams for iran-iraq's future.

on the other hand i guess you got a free air conditioning certificate out of it, so you have that over the guy.

Last edited by uziq (2020-01-05 09:27:37)

Larssen
Post limited. Contact Admin to Be Promoted.
+6|368
The Iraqi prime minister already called for this vote when news of the assassination broke. He will sign legislation effectively ordering the US and probably all NATO troops to withdraw from the country, of that I'm quite certain. It pains me to write it but I think it's clear that we've now lost Iraq.

What the precise consequences will be is hard to oversee at this point in time because many pieces will start moving. Petraeus already commented on what happened yesterday and underlined that the importance of Soleimani's death cannot be overstated - it is far, far more significant than the killings of Bin Laden or Al Baghdadi. They were small timers in comparison. Even though Jay's statement is infuriating, the US started this whole mess, it's true the fallout is 'Europe's problem'.

After a forced troop withdrawal Iraq is unlikely to remain stable and chances are very high that it will descend into a new cycle of violence among Kurds/Shiites/Sunni. It will be inconceivable for any western forces to again set foot in that country for some time to come, so it could escalate in various ways. A conflict between Saudi Arabia and Iran, the absorption of southern Iraq by Iran, independence of the Kurds - I can't say, anything is possible now. What a fucking mess.

Last edited by Larssen (2020-01-05 13:14:01)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,637|4586|eXtreme to the maX
Saturdays Murdoch editorial.

https://i.imgur.com/Dsn4GlP.jpg

So its basically America smiting "Israel's most dangerous enemy" "ahead of an onslaught against the jewish state"

Every country which extended a hand to the Palestinians has been destabilised and reduced to rubble and chaos.

Every country which represented a threat to Israel has been obliterated - except Iran, can't leave that business unfinished so its time to engineer a conflict.

Trump needs a war to avoid impeachment and get re-elected - cue footage of drone strikes and women in burqas ululating - that always energises Trump's moronic base.

Oh and the US exports oil now, but shale oil margins are thin so its time to boost the oil price to fill the coffers of the Republican donors - oil price rises enrage Trump's moronic base, but that can be pinned on Iran and they're too stupid to notice the switch.

Anyone who thinks I'm wrong has not been paying attention to the last 50 years of US foreign policy.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2020-01-05 14:54:49)

Epstein didn't kill himself
SuperJail Warden
Member
+217|2200
The important thing is that Trump's Baby Boomer supporters finally feel like they avenged the hostage crisis of '79.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,637|4586|eXtreme to the maX
Can Trump launch a war against Iran without congressional approval? Probably not, hence he chose Iraq as the starting point to trigger provocation.

And more likely he'll stand behind Israel's illegitimate PM as Israel nukes the heathens than launch a full-scale US war.
Epstein didn't kill himself
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,637|4586|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:

Hey, maybe this finally gets us out of the middle east. This is mostly Europe's problem at this point anyway. You're the ones dependent on middle eastern oil and are being outbred by the millions of muslims you let in.
Yeah, the US can then cut the military in half, only sign people on during wartime and end the Pell grant system.
Should mean your taxes go down a lot, which is what you've earned.

But yeah, the US having comprehensively fucked up the ME you're right "This is mostly Europe's problem at this point".
Well done, please STFU and stay within your own borders from now on.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2020-01-05 22:58:56)

Epstein didn't kill himself
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,637|4586|eXtreme to the maX
So does Trump want US troops in the ME or doesn't he?

President Trump has threatened severe sanctions against Iraq after its parliament called on US troops to leave the country.

"We have a very extraordinarily expensive air base that's there. It cost billions of dollars to build. We're not leaving unless they pay us back for it," he told reporters.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51003159
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+190|1933
obviously they want to be seen as leaving on their terms, with their aims accomplished. the entire 'victory' in the ME has been a matter of various U.S. presidents using the issue for election-scoring points, with no corroboration with sane reality whatsoever.

seeing jay, a kid of the pell grant system, become some racist, trump-supporting nihilist is only too funny. how convenient!
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,968|3839|London, England

uziq wrote:

obviously they want to be seen as leaving on their terms, with their aims accomplished. the entire 'victory' in the ME has been a matter of various U.S. presidents using the issue for election-scoring points, with no corroboration with sane reality whatsoever.

seeing jay, a kid of the pell grant system, become some racist, trump-supporting nihilist is only too funny. how convenient!
Mmmmhmmmm at least you're brexiting and can avoid the larger consequences. Good thing you voted for boris
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
uziq
Member
+190|1933
are you just trying to troll? simmering with low-effort like the commenter on a tabloid newspaper or national review article. has your worldview really caramelised down to 3-4 talking points now? blah blah threat of islam ... political correctness gone mad ... trump ... brexit ... we're not gonna take it, no we're not gonna take it, anymooooore ...
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,968|3839|London, England

uziq wrote:

are you just trying to troll? simmering with low-effort like the commenter on a tabloid newspaper or national review article. has your worldview really caramelised down to 3-4 talking points now? blah blah threat of islam ... political correctness gone mad ... trump ... brexit ... we're not gonna take it, no we're not gonna take it, anymooooore ...
You're not planning to have kids anyway because of climate change so what do you care? Just go micro dose and put on some records and watch the world burn. You have no stake in it.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
uziq
Member
+190|1933
it must be terrible, projecting and pinning all of your convolutions on your kids. change political opinion like a weathervane? hey, man, i got kids! act incredibly selfishly or only in the narrow self-interest of your household budget/tax bill? hey, man, raising a family here! become closed off to world events, ignorant, pumping yourself full of smug right-wing faggotry? you'll only understand when you're raising a KID ... whew, some kids!

i also don't think i have ever said i'm not going to have kids? that's dilbert, iirc. the only time i've spoken about kids on here is to point out the cognitive dissonance of people harping on about sustainability whilst raising -- in an incredibly wasteful fashion, as is america's forte -- large families. i've never condoned population control or malthusian apocalypse like dilbert seems to do. i've only pointed out that having a kid is one big chunk o' coal, resources wise.

i've also never micro dosed, not that it's particularly important. i was speaking about some of my friends, including some medical professionals. plenty of people with a 'stake in the world' micro dose. strange comment.

Last edited by uziq (2020-01-06 02:59:06)

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,968|3839|London, England
I'm setting up for #3 this year. Hope it's a girl bit of coal this time.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
uziq
Member
+190|1933
good luck to you. i'm not exactly an anti-natalist and have never declared that i don't want kids.

not sure what it has to do with the U.S. committing one of the greatest, most expensive self-owns in modern history, though.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,968|3839|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

Jay wrote:

Hey, maybe this finally gets us out of the middle east. This is mostly Europe's problem at this point anyway. You're the ones dependent on middle eastern oil and are being outbred by the millions of muslims you let in.
Yeah, the US can then cut the military in half, only sign people on during wartime and end the Pell grant system.
Should mean your taxes go down a lot, which is what you've earned.

But yeah, the US having comprehensively fucked up the ME you're right "This is mostly Europe's problem at this point".
Well done, please STFU and stay within your own borders from now on.
The ME was fucked from the start. We made it worse because we had no end goal in sight before we invaded. What was the end state we were looking for? Representative Democracy? Peace? We're talking about an area of the world with 25% unemployment just waiting for any charismatic person to come along and lead them into oblivion. At least it gives them something to do and believe in.

Do you know what our end state should've been? You clearly feel the Gulf War was illegal too, so we should have no involvement. Just let them all bugger each other to death? As long as Israel gets buggered first, eh?

Stick to machine parts. No one wants world policy advice from a misanthropic shut in. Your opinions will die with you, thankfully.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
uziq
Member
+190|1933
the U.S. has clearly tried to projects its own interests in the region. claims for it being about 'peace' or 'spreading democracy' are the thin, easily dispelled propaganda aspects of it. every executive needs a few stock phrases and handy reasons to go to war. that can quickly be dispatched with.

this is just a huge strategic trip-up by the U.S. trump has seemingly forgotten what even his own strategy was with iran. didn't he backdown from the nuclear deal a while ago because he was unhappy that the agreements would be moot in 15 years or so, anyway, so iran could once again negotiate on the issue? overnight iran have just walked away from the whole thing -- and who can blame them -- so now we're in a situation where even those 15-year pledges seem like a luxury.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,968|3839|London, England

uziq wrote:

good luck to you. i'm not exactly an anti-natalist and have never declared that i don't want kids.

not sure what it has to do with the U.S. committing one of the greatest, most expensive self-owns in modern history, though.
It was never going to be anything different. Religion trumps all there and 2/3 of the country is shia. The best we could've hoped for was some form of mutually assured destruction scenario where all 3 sides have strong enough militias to defend themselves and keep the others honest.

Honestly, Iran was destined to puppet the country from the moment we toppled Saddam. As soon as he went down the cleric's all set up their own power bases. They controlled the food, the money, the people, the guns in their little fiefdoms. They're like little mafia Don's handing out turkeys at Christmas. We empowered them because we had no where else to turn to to keep order, and so did Iran, because they knew they would be long term allies.

Everything between then and now was simply a rear guard action to delay it as long as possible. As long as the Ayatollahs are in power they will work to destabilize the entire region. Ask them what their end game is and they will say religious conversion of the entire world to Shia. Ours is some vague notion of installing secular representative democracy, maybe, or maybe not. Some day definitely if not today!
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,968|3839|London, England

uziq wrote:

the U.S. has clearly tried to projects its own interests in the region. claims for it being about 'peace' or 'spreading democracy' are the thin, easily dispelled propaganda aspects of it. every executive needs a few stock phrases and handy reasons to go to war. that can quickly be dispatched with.

this is just a huge strategic trip-up by the U.S. trump has seemingly forgotten what even his own strategy was with iran. didn't he backdown from the nuclear deal a while ago because he was unhappy that the agreements would be moot in 15 years or so, anyway, so iran could once again negotiate on the issue? overnight iran have just walked away from the whole thing -- and who can blame them -- so now we're in a situation where even those 15-year pledges seem like a luxury.
Do you really believe they were going to honor any of it? I don't.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
SuperJail Warden
Member
+217|2200
I am not really bothered by some Americans wanting to go to war with Iran. Our country loves its violent media and war movies after all. The Golden Globe best movie last night was a war movie set in World War 1.

I am annoyed by people who think a war with Iran would be easy or even winnable at all though. There is no way this works out well for the U.S. And even if someone couldn't care less about the loss of American life, they should acknowledge that there would be better ways to spend hundreds of billions of dollars.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,637|4586|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:

The ME was fucked from the start.
It was doing OK before America got involved.
We're talking about an area of the world with 25% unemployment just waiting for any charismatic person to come along and lead them into oblivion.
Sounds more like America TBH, once you factor out the workfare program which is the US military. I know you voted for Trump.
Just let them all bugger each other to death? As long as Israel gets buggered first, eh?
We ARE talking about America - the country which gave AIDS to the world. If Israel went that would solve most of the problems in the region.
Stick to machine parts. No one wants world policy advice from a misanthropic shut in. Your opinions will die with you, thankfully.
No-one wants to hear from a bellicose hypocrite either. Don't forget to attend the military parade with your purple heart and paratrooper wings.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+190|1933

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

the U.S. has clearly tried to projects its own interests in the region. claims for it being about 'peace' or 'spreading democracy' are the thin, easily dispelled propaganda aspects of it. every executive needs a few stock phrases and handy reasons to go to war. that can quickly be dispatched with.

this is just a huge strategic trip-up by the U.S. trump has seemingly forgotten what even his own strategy was with iran. didn't he backdown from the nuclear deal a while ago because he was unhappy that the agreements would be moot in 15 years or so, anyway, so iran could once again negotiate on the issue? overnight iran have just walked away from the whole thing -- and who can blame them -- so now we're in a situation where even those 15-year pledges seem like a luxury.
Do you really believe they were going to honor any of it? I don't.
iran was complying with the nuclear agreement, so yes. it is trump that wrecked the accords, not the other way around.
uziq
Member
+190|1933

Jay wrote:

Everything between then and now was simply a rear guard action to delay it as long as possible. As long as the Ayatollahs are in power they will work to destabilize the entire region. Ask them what their end game is and they will say religious conversion of the entire world to Shia. Ours is some vague notion of installing secular representative democracy, maybe, or maybe not. Some day definitely if not today!
shia islam doesn't want to convert the world to islam, it's nothing like the aggressive strain developed -- in the US-funded madrasa school system -- in saudi arabia. islam is always more about 'the near enemy', i.e. sectarianism and national power politics in the region, than the islamification of the world. you're just betraying your hysterical right-wing tabloid view of the world. the ayatollah does not want to convert america to islam.

Last edited by uziq (2020-01-06 04:33:44)

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