CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6742

lowing wrote:

Ok so even if the extreme were to happen, the elimination of the Israeli state. Peace in the ME would still be elusive. So it seems pretty ridiculous to say Israel is the aggressors and the source for conflict in that region. Which is heard a lot in this forum. My humble opinion is, Israel simply wants to exist in peace, they have no desire to impose their will on any other nation. They are only guilty of not taking any shit from any other nation.
Peace in the middle east would still be elusive, we agree on that. Israel may want to exist in peace but they certainly aren't going about it the right way: there is no military, strategic or financial benefit from creating and growing illegal settlements in the West Bank, part of the Palestine nation-in-waiting. They are imposing their will on Palestinians in this regard. The partition wall is another prime example: unnecessarily cutting into and annexing more Palestinian land, often cutting farms in half just out of spite. Your argument holds for the Syrian Golan Heights because Israel would argue that that is strategically necessary for defence reasons. Holding the Lebanese Shebaa Farms area illegally seems coutner-productive though as it seems to be of little defensive benefit and stoked the flames of the most recent Israeli-Lebanese spat. The Israelis could certainly remove a lot of the barriers that they themselves have placed in the way of their peaceful co-existence with others (that's not to say that the arabs have plenty of barriers up themselves) and a lot of the excuses used by anti-Israel militias.

PS Kudos on a relatively civil discourse.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-11-11 10:49:19)

lowing
Banned
+1,662|6838|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

Ok so even if the extreme were to happen, the elimination of the Israeli state. Peace in the ME would still be elusive. So it seems pretty ridiculous to say Israel is the aggressors and the source for conflict in that region. Which is heard a lot in this forum. My humble opinion is, Israel simply wants to exist in peace, they have no desire to impose their will on any other nation. They are only guilty of not taking any shit from any other nation.
Peace in the middle east would still be elusive, we agree on that. Israel may want to exist in peace but they certainly aren't going about it the right way: there is no military, strategic or financial benefit from creating and growing illegal settlements in the West Bank, part of the Palestine nation-in-waiting. They are imposing their will on Palestinians in this regard. The partition wall is another prime example: unnecessarily cutting into and annexing more Palestinian land, often cutting farms in half just out of spite. Your argument holds for the Syrian Golan Heights because Israel would argue that that is strategically necessary for defence reasons. Holding the Lebanese Shebaa Farms area illegally seems coutner-productive though as it seems to be of little defensive benefit and stoked the flames of the most recent Israeli-Lebanese spat. The Israelis could certainly remove a lot of the barriers that they themselves have placed in the way of their peaceful co-existence with others (that's not to say that the arabs have plenty of barriers up themselves) and a lot of the excuses should by anti-Israel militias.

PS Kudos on a relatively civil discourse.
Back at ya.

Israel has extended "olive branches" in the form of pullouts from Gaza and from the west bank, yet they recieve no recognition or "olive branches" in return.It seems the Arabs think this isn't enough.  As I understand it, in fact, the Palistinian leaders were worried how they were going to control security over the region when Israel left and put down any attacks on Israel from the extremists that insist on fighting Israel.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6742

lowing wrote:

Back at ya.

Israel has extended "olive branches" in the form of pullouts from Gaza and from the west bank, yet they recieve no recognition or "olive branches" in return.It seems the Arabs think this isn't enough.  As I understand it, in fact, the Palistinian leaders were worried how they were going to control security over the region when Israel left and put down any attacks on Israel from the extremists that insist on fighting Israel.
I can tell you from having been to Palestine that any notion of governmental control that you or I might have is a million miles away from that which can be exercised in Palestine. It is on the brink of anarchy, it's economy having been shattered. A perpetual cycle of violence exists where livid people who've lost loved ones/farms/houses/everything at the hands of the Israelis will not sit idly by just because the Israelis withdrew from Gaza - their anger drives them to continue pounding away. This violence of course begets violence and there is very little control that can be exercised over these people given the chronic weakness of the PA and their security forces. The Palestinians in Gaza are not only fighting Israel but fighting a civil war with themselves in Gaza over the identity of the cause of Palestinian nationalism in the wake of the Israeli withdrawal. Not all Palestinians wish to continue firing rockets at the likes of Ashkelon or Ashdod - hence the civil unrest. The whole thing is a big massive anarchic shitfest.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-11-11 11:02:51)

sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6944|Argentina

lowing wrote:

This whole Israel/ Arab discussion is nothing more than a cycle of what came first the chicken or the egg. So let me see if I can ask this in a way to break the cycle:

What will bring peace to the ME faster?

The destruction of Israel? Wich would mean that once that happens the Arabs and terrorists will all settle down and live in peace. ( this one I don't buy for 1 second)

The Arab nations accepting that Jews have just as much right to live in the ME as any Muslim does, and leaves them alone.
I was out shopping, in fact my wife was and I payed.  So, I didn't see this until now. 
The faster solution would be the first one, but it is not an option.
The real solution would be Israel and the Arabs accepting each other.  How do you do that?  It's not easy task, but Israel must leave its criminal policy, US must stop supporting Israel and the Muslim extremists must stop their attacks too.  This would be nice, not easy again.  It's a 2 sides duty to achieve piece in ME.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6838|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

Back at ya.

Israel has extended "olive branches" in the form of pullouts from Gaza and from the west bank, yet they recieve no recognition or "olive branches" in return.It seems the Arabs think this isn't enough.  As I understand it, in fact, the Palistinian leaders were worried how they were going to control security over the region when Israel left and put down any attacks on Israel from the extremists that insist on fighting Israel.
I can tell you from having been to Palestine that any notion of governmental control that you or I might have is a million miles away from that which can be exercised in Palestine. It is on the brink of anarchy, it's economy having been shattered. A perpetual cycle of violence exists where livid people who've lost loved ones/farms/houses/everything at the hands of the Israelis will not sit idly by just because the Israelis withdrew from Gaza - their anger drives them to continue pounding away. This violence of course begets violence and there is very little control that can be exercised over these people given the chronic weakness of the PA and their security forces. The Palestinians in Gaza are not only fighting Israel but fighting a civil war with themselves in Gaza over the identity of the cause of Palestinian nationalism in the wake of the Israeli withdrawal. Not all Palestinians wish to continue firing rockets at the likes of Ashkelon or Ashdod - hence the civil unrest. The whole thing is a big massive anarchic shitfest.
Well at this point, Israel withdrew, and the attacks continue on Israel. You can hardly blame Israel for doing what was demanded of it, and still forced to defend itself. Israel made the first move, they pulled out, it is up to Patinstine and the rest of the Arab world to take the next step. You can not keep demanding that Israel steps toward peace, all the while fighting off attack after attack. Add to it, you can not expect Israel to keeping stepping toward peace, with out the Arab world taking a few steps in the same direction.

Last edited by lowing (2006-11-11 11:14:03)

CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6742

lowing wrote:

Well at this point, Israel withdrew, and the attacks continue on Israel. You can hardly blame Israel for doing what was demanded of it, and still forced to defend itself. Israel made the first move, they pulled out, it is up to Patinstine and the rest of the Arab world to take the next step. You can not keep demanding that Israel steps toward peace, all the while fighting off attack after attack. Add to it, you can not expect Israel to keeping stepping toward peace, with out the Arab world taking a few steps in the same direction.
Basically everything is on hold with respect to peace until Fatah are back in power. Until then it will be a cycle of violence. A lopsided one at that. I agree Israel must defend itself but it could be more precise and measured. It could certainly be less inflamatory on a more general level by curbing settlement growth and banning further settlements. That really helps no one - not Palestinians, not Israelis.

PS The continued firing of rockets demonstrates the ineffectiveness of their retaliatory actions. The same happened in Lebanon. They need a new tactic/strategy.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-11-11 11:17:55)

lowing
Banned
+1,662|6838|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

Well at this point, Israel withdrew, and the attacks continue on Israel. You can hardly blame Israel for doing what was demanded of it, and still forced to defend itself. Israel made the first move, they pulled out, it is up to Patinstine and the rest of the Arab world to take the next step. You can not keep demanding that Israel steps toward peace, all the while fighting off attack after attack. Add to it, you can not expect Israel to keeping stepping toward peace, with out the Arab world taking a few steps in the same direction.
Basically everything is on hold with respect to peace until Fatah are back in power. Until then it will be a cycle of violence. A lopsided one at that. I agree Israel must defend itself but it could be more precise and measured. It could certainly be less inflamatory on a more general level by curbing settlement growth and banning further settlements. That really helps no one - not Palestinians, not Israelis.

PS The continued firing of rockets demonstrates the ineffectiveness of their retaliatory actions. The same happened in Lebanon. They need a new tactic/strategy.
I seriously doubt electing HAMAS is the step in the right direction. How, exactly, is that action supposed to be interpreted by Israel?? The death toll of innocent civilians in Palistine would be a lot less if they would stop fightin from civilian populaces and then hiding among them as well. You can't blame Israel for that.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6742

lowing wrote:

I seriously doubt electing HAMAS is the step in the right direction. How, exactly, is that action supposed to be interpreted by Israel?? The death toll of innocent civilians in Palistine would be a lot less if they would stop fightin from civilian populaces and then hiding among them as well. You can't blame Israel for that.
I said FATAH not HAMAS. Of course Israel would interpret the election of Hamas as a step in the wrong direction, because that is plain for all to see. I never said it was a step in the right direction - hence my comment about having to wait until Fatah are back in power. Lowing - guerrilla warfare is necessary when the enemy protagonist is vastly superior in terms of armaments, training, recruits, etc. It's an ugly fact of life. It makes Israel look bad but hey - that's life. I would have no qualms with Hamas engaging in such warfare (hit and run) if they didn't target civilians, but unfortunately they do.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6838|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

I seriously doubt electing HAMAS is the step in the right direction. How, exactly, is that action supposed to be interpreted by Israel?? The death toll of innocent civilians in Palistine would be a lot less if they would stop fightin from civilian populaces and then hiding among them as well. You can't blame Israel for that.
I said FATAH not HAMAS. Of course Israel would interpret the election of Hamas as a step in the wrong direction, because that is plain for all to see. I never said it was a step in the right direction - hence my comment about having to wait until Fatah are back in power. Lowing - guerrilla warfare is necessary when the enemy protagonist is vastly superior in terms of armaments, training, recruits, etc. It's an ugly fact of life. It makes Israel look bad but hey - that's life. I would have no qualms with Hamas engaging in such warfare (hit and run) if they didn't target civilians, but unfortunately they do.
I know you sais FATAH, but the fact is, HAMAS was voted in. A step in the wrong direction by Palistine. Also rightfully so, a threat to Israel. If you insist guerrilla warfare is necessary, please excuse Israel for reacting to it.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6742

lowing wrote:

I know you sais FATAH, but the fact is, HAMAS was voted in. A step in the wrong direction by Palistine. Also rightfully so, a threat to Israel. If you insist guerrilla warfare is necessary, please excuse Israel for reacting to it.
I do excuse them from reacting to it but I will criticise them for going overboard or when they cede the moral high ground by engaging in unnecessary or mindless killing. I will criticise them when they carry out any unnecessary actions that exacerbate the unending cycle of violence. I will also criticise them whenever they throw further barriers in the way of peace, much as I criticise those on the Palestinian side.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-11-11 11:50:11)

lowing
Banned
+1,662|6838|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

I know you sais FATAH, but the fact is, HAMAS was voted in. A step in the wrong direction by Palestine. Also rightfully so, a threat to Israel. If you insist guerrilla warfare is necessary, please excuse Israel for reacting to it.
I do excuse them from reacting to it but I will criticize them for going overboard or when they cede the moral high ground by engaging in unnecessary or mindless killing. I will criticize them when they carry out any unnecessary actions that exacerbate the unending cycle of violence. I will also criticize them whenever they throw further barriers in the way of peace, much as I criticize those on the Palestinian side.
No Cam, you do not criticize Palestine as much as Israel. From your posts, until this exchange, you pretty much have been blameing Israel for everything. Only throwing token morsels of blame on the Arab world, I guess, so you can say you maintain neutrality. The fact is though, it is obvious you layed the blame at the feet of Israel. It is only now that I have read from you almost an equal share of blame for both sides.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6944|Argentina

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

I know you sais FATAH, but the fact is, HAMAS was voted in. A step in the wrong direction by Palestine. Also rightfully so, a threat to Israel. If you insist guerrilla warfare is necessary, please excuse Israel for reacting to it.
I do excuse them from reacting to it but I will criticize them for going overboard or when they cede the moral high ground by engaging in unnecessary or mindless killing. I will criticize them when they carry out any unnecessary actions that exacerbate the unending cycle of violence. I will also criticize them whenever they throw further barriers in the way of peace, much as I criticize those on the Palestinian side.
No Cam, you do not criticize Palestine as much as Israel. From your posts, until this exchange, you pretty much have been blameing Israel for everything. Only throwing token morsels of blame on the Arab world, I guess, so you can say you maintain neutrality. The fact is though, it is obvious you layed the blame at the feet of Israel. It is only now that I have read from you almost an equal share of blame for both sides.
Both sides are guilty.  But there's a huge difference.  Palestine is fighting a greater enemy who is supported by the World's Superpower US.  Israel counts with top notch weapons and trained soldiers and has its back covered by US and Palestine counts with...Palestinians.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6838|USA

sergeriver wrote:

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:


I do excuse them from reacting to it but I will criticize them for going overboard or when they cede the moral high ground by engaging in unnecessary or mindless killing. I will criticize them when they carry out any unnecessary actions that exacerbate the unending cycle of violence. I will also criticize them whenever they throw further barriers in the way of peace, much as I criticize those on the Palestinian side.
No Cam, you do not criticize Palestine as much as Israel. From your posts, until this exchange, you pretty much have been blameing Israel for everything. Only throwing token morsels of blame on the Arab world, I guess, so you can say you maintain neutrality. The fact is though, it is obvious you layed the blame at the feet of Israel. It is only now that I have read from you almost an equal share of blame for both sides.
Both sides are guilty.  But there's a huge difference.  Palestine is fighting a greater enemy who is supported by the World's Superpower US.  Israel counts with top notch weapons and trained soldiers and has its back covered by US and Palestine counts with...Palestinians.
You are also forgetting the big difference in warfare. Israel, support them or not, does not have the reputation of purposely targeting civilian populations, they do not have the reputation of conducting warfare while using women and children as shields.

I would not support the US, supporting that kind of behavior. IE supporting Palistinians.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6944|Argentina

lowing wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

lowing wrote:


No Cam, you do not criticize Palestine as much as Israel. From your posts, until this exchange, you pretty much have been blameing Israel for everything. Only throwing token morsels of blame on the Arab world, I guess, so you can say you maintain neutrality. The fact is though, it is obvious you layed the blame at the feet of Israel. It is only now that I have read from you almost an equal share of blame for both sides.
Both sides are guilty.  But there's a huge difference.  Palestine is fighting a greater enemy who is supported by the World's Superpower US.  Israel counts with top notch weapons and trained soldiers and has its back covered by US and Palestine counts with...Palestinians.
You are also forgetting the big difference in warfare. Israel, support them or not, does not have the reputation of purposely targeting civilian populations, they do not have the reputation of conducting warfare while using women and children as shields.

I would not support the US, supporting that kind of behavior. IE supporting Palistinians.
The women and children shield thing is a myth.  And you may want to reconsider your statement about Israel reputation.

The US has vetoed a UN Security Council resolution condemning an Israeli attack in Gaza that killed 18 civilians, including women and children.

Why is there a need to veto this?
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6838|USA

sergeriver wrote:

lowing wrote:

sergeriver wrote:


Both sides are guilty.  But there's a huge difference.  Palestine is fighting a greater enemy who is supported by the World's Superpower US.  Israel counts with top notch weapons and trained soldiers and has its back covered by US and Palestine counts with...Palestinians.
You are also forgetting the big difference in warfare. Israel, support them or not, does not have the reputation of purposely targeting civilian populations, they do not have the reputation of conducting warfare while using women and children as shields.

I would not support the US, supporting that kind of behavior. IE supporting Palistinians.
The women and children shield thing is a myth.  And you may want to reconsider your statement about Israel reputation.

The US has vetoed a UN Security Council resolution condemning an Israeli attack in Gaza that killed 18 civilians, including women and children.

Why is there a need to veto this?
It is easy to kill women and children, when those that are trying to kill you hide among them using them as shields......Kinda like I already said. Then they will raise up and scream about how many women and children were killed by Israel. By the way, how many "resolutions" were implimented to prevent the killing of Israeli women and children??
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6944|Argentina

lowing wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

lowing wrote:


You are also forgetting the big difference in warfare. Israel, support them or not, does not have the reputation of purposely targeting civilian populations, they do not have the reputation of conducting warfare while using women and children as shields.

I would not support the US, supporting that kind of behavior. IE supporting Palistinians.
The women and children shield thing is a myth.  And you may want to reconsider your statement about Israel reputation.

The US has vetoed a UN Security Council resolution condemning an Israeli attack in Gaza that killed 18 civilians, including women and children.

Why is there a need to veto this?
It is easy to kill women and children, when those that are trying to kill you hide among them using them as shields......Kinda like I already said. Then they will raise up and scream about how many women and children were killed by Israel. By the way, how many "resolutions" were implimented to prevent the killing of Israeli women and children??
You still didn't answer why did US veto this resolution condemning Israel crimes?  Is this guy Bolton trying to be in the news before they get him out of the UN?
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6838|USA

sergeriver wrote:

lowing wrote:

sergeriver wrote:


The women and children shield thing is a myth.  And you may want to reconsider your statement about Israel reputation.

The US has vetoed a UN Security Council resolution condemning an Israeli attack in Gaza that killed 18 civilians, including women and children.

Why is there a need to veto this?
It is easy to kill women and children, when those that are trying to kill you hide among them using them as shields......Kinda like I already said. Then they will raise up and scream about how many women and children were killed by Israel. By the way, how many "resolutions" were implimented to prevent the killing of Israeli women and children??
You still didn't answer why did US veto this resolution condemning Israel crimes?  Is this guy Bolton trying to be in the news before they get him out of the UN?
It is a biased resolution plain and simple. To condemn Israel for killing women and children while trying to fight a war where your enemy is hiding and attacking from amongst them is pretty fuckin stupid. Especially when there doesn't appear to be any condemnation of Palistinians actually hiding among women and children, and launching attacks from among women and children. Or even purposely targeting women and children themselves. If you buy into this kind of behavior then we are too far apart to even continue this exchange.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6944|Argentina

lowing wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

lowing wrote:


It is easy to kill women and children, when those that are trying to kill you hide among them using them as shields......Kinda like I already said. Then they will raise up and scream about how many women and children were killed by Israel. By the way, how many "resolutions" were implimented to prevent the killing of Israeli women and children??
You still didn't answer why did US veto this resolution condemning Israel crimes?  Is this guy Bolton trying to be in the news before they get him out of the UN?
It is a biased resolution plain and simple. To condemn Israel for killing women and children while trying to fight a war where your enemy is hiding and attacking from amongst them is pretty fuckin stupid. Especially when there doesn't appear to be any condemnation of Palistinians actually hiding among women and children, and launching attacks from among women and children. Or even purposely targeting women and children themselves. If you buy into this kind of behavior then we are too far apart to even continue this exchange.
Let me guess, Palestinians should live in neighborhoods according their sex and age.  Perhaps women and children under 10 (because there you are an adult at 10) in a zone and men in another, so Israel could target them without killing innocent people.  I see.  Damn Palestinians, living all together.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6838|USA

sergeriver wrote:

lowing wrote:

sergeriver wrote:


You still didn't answer why did US veto this resolution condemning Israel crimes?  Is this guy Bolton trying to be in the news before they get him out of the UN?
It is a biased resolution plain and simple. To condemn Israel for killing women and children while trying to fight a war where your enemy is hiding and attacking from amongst them is pretty fuckin stupid. Especially when there doesn't appear to be any condemnation of Palistinians actually hiding among women and children, and launching attacks from among women and children. Or even purposely targeting women and children themselves. If you buy into this kind of behavior then we are too far apart to even continue this exchange.
Let me guess, Palestinians should live in neighborhoods according their sex and age.  Perhaps women and children under 10 (because there you are an adult at 10) in a zone and men in another, so Israel could target them without killing innocent people.  I see.  Damn Palestinians, living all together.
Well...............I never said anything about separating neighborhoods acording to sex ans age. I said if you do not want your women and children in harms way then stop launching attacks from amongst them.

Good job ignoring the post and trying to redirect what I said. I did notice you will not address TWICE the lack of resolutions condemning the killing of women and children from everyone, instead of just condemning Israel.

If you want you can address my comments and stay in the parameters of what I said
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6944|Argentina

lowing wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

lowing wrote:


It is a biased resolution plain and simple. To condemn Israel for killing women and children while trying to fight a war where your enemy is hiding and attacking from amongst them is pretty fuckin stupid. Especially when there doesn't appear to be any condemnation of Palistinians actually hiding among women and children, and launching attacks from among women and children. Or even purposely targeting women and children themselves. If you buy into this kind of behavior then we are too far apart to even continue this exchange.
Let me guess, Palestinians should live in neighborhoods according their sex and age.  Perhaps women and children under 10 (because there you are an adult at 10) in a zone and men in another, so Israel could target them without killing innocent people.  I see.  Damn Palestinians, living all together.
Well...............I never said anything about separating neighborhoods acording to sex ans age. I said if you do not want your women and children in harms way then stop launching attacks from amongst them.

Good job ignoring the post and trying to redirect what I said. I did notice you will not address TWICE the lack of resolutions condemning the killing of women and children from everyone, instead of just condemning Israel.

If you want you can address my comments and stay in the parameters of what I said
Dude, you know me, I condemn every killing from both sides.  But the reality is that Israel is exceeding the limits there.  The UN resolutions are worthless anyway.  I don't address useless organizations like the UN.  I want Israel to stop committing crimes against Humanity.  Then, you'll see Palestinians behaving in a proper way.  Meanwhile, the killings will continue.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6838|USA

sergeriver wrote:

lowing wrote:

sergeriver wrote:


Let me guess, Palestinians should live in neighborhoods according their sex and age.  Perhaps women and children under 10 (because there you are an adult at 10) in a zone and men in another, so Israel could target them without killing innocent people.  I see.  Damn Palestinians, living all together.
Well...............I never said anything about separating neighborhoods acording to sex ans age. I said if you do not want your women and children in harms way then stop launching attacks from amongst them.

Good job ignoring the post and trying to redirect what I said. I did notice you will not address TWICE the lack of resolutions condemning the killing of women and children from everyone, instead of just condemning Israel.

If you want you can address my comments and stay in the parameters of what I said
Dude, you know me, I condemn every killing from both sides.  But the reality is that Israel is exceeding the limits there.  The UN resolutions are worthless anyway.  I don't address useless organizations like the UN.  I want Israel to stop committing crimes against Humanity.  Then, you'll see Palestinians behaving in a proper way.  Meanwhile, the killings will continue.
you asked why the UN resolution against Israel was vetoed, I gave my answer as, the resolution is biased since no one else is being condemned and resolutions imposed on for doing the same thing. Especially, when EVERYONE else is doing it ON purpose and Israel is doing it only because the people they arefighting are hiding among women and children and conducting operations among women and children. Israel is NOT purposely targeting women and children.

Cameronpoe and I agree that peace in the ME would not occur if Israel all of a sudden vanished. I also said, that Israel has offered "olive branches" by pulling out of Gaza and the West Bank, yet they are STILL being attacked. Israel has taken steps, it is time EVERYONE else involved ALSO take steps. If Arab nations has taken any real permanent  comprimising steps toward peace with Israel please post them I wanna read it
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6944|Argentina

lowing wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

lowing wrote:


Well...............I never said anything about separating neighborhoods acording to sex ans age. I said if you do not want your women and children in harms way then stop launching attacks from amongst them.

Good job ignoring the post and trying to redirect what I said. I did notice you will not address TWICE the lack of resolutions condemning the killing of women and children from everyone, instead of just condemning Israel.

If you want you can address my comments and stay in the parameters of what I said
Dude, you know me, I condemn every killing from both sides.  But the reality is that Israel is exceeding the limits there.  The UN resolutions are worthless anyway.  I don't address useless organizations like the UN.  I want Israel to stop committing crimes against Humanity.  Then, you'll see Palestinians behaving in a proper way.  Meanwhile, the killings will continue.
you asked why the UN resolution against Israel was vetoed, I gave my answer as, the resolution is biased since no one else is being condemned and resolutions imposed on for doing the same thing. Especially, when EVERYONE else is doing it ON purpose and Israel is doing it only because the people they arefighting are hiding among women and children and conducting operations among women and children. Israel is NOT purposely targeting women and children.

Cameronpoe and I agree that peace in the ME would not occur if Israel all of a sudden vanished. I also said, that Israel has offered "olive branches" by pulling out of Gaza and the West Bank, yet they are STILL being attacked. Israel has taken steps, it is time EVERYONE else involved ALSO take steps. If Arab nations has taken any real permanent  comprimising steps toward peace with Israel please post them I wanna read it
Open your mind, Palestine is doing whatever it can to fight against Israel Army.  You are posting in a post about Arabs wanting to negotiate.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6838|USA

sergeriver wrote:

lowing wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Dude, you know me, I condemn every killing from both sides.  But the reality is that Israel is exceeding the limits there.  The UN resolutions are worthless anyway.  I don't address useless organizations like the UN.  I want Israel to stop committing crimes against Humanity.  Then, you'll see Palestinians behaving in a proper way.  Meanwhile, the killings will continue.
you asked why the UN resolution against Israel was vetoed, I gave my answer as, the resolution is biased since no one else is being condemned and resolutions imposed on for doing the same thing. Especially, when EVERYONE else is doing it ON purpose and Israel is doing it only because the people they arefighting are hiding among women and children and conducting operations among women and children. Israel is NOT purposely targeting women and children.

Cameronpoe and I agree that peace in the ME would not occur if Israel all of a sudden vanished. I also said, that Israel has offered "olive branches" by pulling out of Gaza and the West Bank, yet they are STILL being attacked. Israel has taken steps, it is time EVERYONE else involved ALSO take steps. If Arab nations has taken any real permanent  comprimising steps toward peace with Israel please post them I wanna read it
Open your mind, Palestine is doing whatever it can to fight against Israel Army.  You are posting in a post about Arabs wanting to negotiate.
I hope you are not suggesting that I "open my mind" to using women and children as shields as you conduct warfare against women and children.

Also, electing a terrorist group to govt. (HAMAS) is hardly the right road for peace.

Last edited by lowing (2006-11-11 15:03:30)

sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6944|Argentina

lowing wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

lowing wrote:


you asked why the UN resolution against Israel was vetoed, I gave my answer as, the resolution is biased since no one else is being condemned and resolutions imposed on for doing the same thing. Especially, when EVERYONE else is doing it ON purpose and Israel is doing it only because the people they arefighting are hiding among women and children and conducting operations among women and children. Israel is NOT purposely targeting women and children.

Cameronpoe and I agree that peace in the ME would not occur if Israel all of a sudden vanished. I also said, that Israel has offered "olive branches" by pulling out of Gaza and the West Bank, yet they are STILL being attacked. Israel has taken steps, it is time EVERYONE else involved ALSO take steps. If Arab nations has taken any real permanent  comprimising steps toward peace with Israel please post them I wanna read it
Open your mind, Palestine is doing whatever it can to fight against Israel Army.  You are posting in a post about Arabs wanting to negotiate.
I hope you are not suggesting that I "open my mind" to using women and children as shields as you conduct warfare against women and children.

Also, electing a terrorist group to govt. (HAMAS) is hardly the right road for peace.
Open your mind a.k.a don't buy all the BS that Israel says.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6838|USA

sergeriver wrote:

lowing wrote:

sergeriver wrote:


Open your mind, Palestine is doing whatever it can to fight against Israel Army.  You are posting in a post about Arabs wanting to negotiate.
I hope you are not suggesting that I "open my mind" to using women and children as shields as you conduct warfare against women and children.

Also, electing a terrorist group to govt. (HAMAS) is hardly the right road for peace.
Open your mind a.k.a don't buy all the BS that Israel says.
Oh so the terrorist group HAMAS was NOT elected to govt. in Palistine.

HAMAS, HEZZBOLAH, DO NOT have the reputation of hiding , and fighting and carrying out operations in and amongst women and children???

Israel DOES have the above reputaion for such behavior??!!

If you can show me articles that I am wrong about this I am all ears. But I can show you articles that says I am accurate.

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