Poll

If you could have only one Which one Would you Choose?

Freedom of Speech73%73% - 198
Right to Bear Arms26%26% - 72
Total: 270
jord
Member
+2,382|6961|The North, beyond the wall.

IRONCHEF wrote:

jord wrote:

Yes,if i have a gun 5 English police won't stop me,after i shoot them all in the face.
But will shooting and killing 5 police officers get you back your freedom of speech?  Or will you confront the president/MP and demand your free speech be restored at the point of your gun...as laserbeams are trained at your temples and between your eyes? lol

speech first, guns second.
I never really said they'd get my freedom of speech back.But i did for option number 2.

Thing is this is all metophorical,it would be very hard to stop people talking about anything they wan't.

I imagine without either one of the options the Us would change for the worse.
apollo_fi
The Flying Kalakukko.
+94|6813|The lunar module

jord wrote:

Thing is this is all metophorical,it would be very hard to stop people talking about anything they wan't.
True that.

Although, when freedom of speech no longer applies, you will go to jail for talking about a range of subjects.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6773|Northern California

jord wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

jord wrote:

Yes,if i have a gun 5 English police won't stop me,after i shoot them all in the face.
But will shooting and killing 5 police officers get you back your freedom of speech?  Or will you confront the president/MP and demand your free speech be restored at the point of your gun...as laserbeams are trained at your temples and between your eyes? lol

speech first, guns second.
I never really said they'd get my freedom of speech back.But i did for option number 2.

Thing is this is all metophorical,it would be very hard to stop people talking about anything they wan't.

I imagine without either one of the options the Us would change for the worse.
I'm just imagining my daily life without forms of media, information, "the know."  If you explore that idea, not being able to say anything contrary to the rules at hand...it'd be like the 1800's when the story of a court case across the country occured and a verdict was handed down against the feminist who wanted equal rights.  You got the news after she was already executed.

If we lost our free speech, and the government really controlled us (like N Korea), we could never take it back by force because you need that form of communication to do so.  Sure you could do it once assembled with all your guns and force as the constitution intended (a well regulated militia). 

And speaking of the 2nd....I always assumed that the well regulated militia (national guard belonging to states) was the armed group (made up of citizens, of course) that would force corrections upon the government.  It appears things didn't turn out like the forefathers intended.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6957|Canberra, AUS
I voted right to bear arms simply because that's a right I would never use.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6934|USA

sergeriver wrote:

If you could have only one, which one would you choose?

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
They are both essential, impossible to answer, rationally that is.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7040|Argentina

lowing wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

If you could have only one, which one would you choose?

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
They are both essential, impossible to answer, rationally that is.
You are right, if you excuse me I have to go to the supermarket because we are out of grenades.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6934|USA

sergeriver wrote:

lowing wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

If you could have only one, which one would you choose?

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
They are both essential, impossible to answer, rationally that is.
You are right, if you excuse me I have to go to the supermarket because we are out of grenades.
Not too sure where you can go shopping to buy hand grenades, but good luck with that.

Ya see, the neat thing about the right to bear arms is, you have just as much right NOT to bear arms if you CHOOSE not to. Isn't that cool??

Now, for me as long as there are criminals who will commit violent crimes,( B and E, home invasion, would be one of those by the way) then I will invoke my right to bear arms to protect my family and myself.

So, before you even think about saying it, I will nip in the bud right now:

Your concern about kids getting killed by guns in the home is so scary to you,do to irresponsible parents, then perhaps we need to park all the cars as well, since kids also die in cars from irresponsible drivers.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6844

sergeriver wrote:

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
That's the dumbest statement ever.  Every day we trade of liberty for safety, that's what laws do.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6812|Global Command
Speach.
13rin
Member
+977|6762
If I had a gun and you didn't, I could say whatever the hell I want to you.  You could try to.  The right to bear arms paved the way for free speech.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6832|Southeastern USA
chose 2 so i could shoot people that didn't like what i had to say


I WIN!!
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6844

DBBrinson1 wrote:

The right to bear arms paved the way for free speech.
Then explain Britain.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6934|USA

Bubbalo wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

The right to bear arms paved the way for free speech.
Then explain Britain.
wow, britain doesn't have guns??!!
Deadmonkiefart
Floccinaucinihilipilificator
+177|6989
To what extent?
SEREMAKER
BABYMAKIN EXPERT √
+2,187|6851|Mountains of NC

words of former US President Theodore Roosevelt " Speak Softly and Carry a Big Stick "

I voted for the Right to Bear Arms
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/17445/carhartt.jpg
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6844

lowing wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

The right to bear arms paved the way for free speech.
Then explain Britain.
wow, britain doesn't have guns??!!
Did he comment on having guns?
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|6967|United States of America
Does the absence of freedom of speech, in this hypothetical, prevent you from praising the government/some other opponent too?
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6934|USA

Bubbalo wrote:

lowing wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:


Then explain Britain.
wow, britain doesn't have guns??!!
Did he comment on having guns?
yeah bubbalo, the right to bear arms means...............getting to have guns. amazing isn't it??
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6844

lowing wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

lowing wrote:


wow, britain doesn't have guns??!!
Did he comment on having guns?
yeah bubbalo, the right to bear arms means...............getting to have guns. amazing isn't it??
You really aren't the sharpest tool in the shed are you?

The right to bear arms is to be allowed, under law, to have weapons.

Having weapons is being in possession of weapons.

For example, I have the right to dance, yet I choose not to.  And if we're going to get technical you are incorrect: the right to bear arms is the right to have weapons, not guns.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6934|USA

Bubbalo wrote:

lowing wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:


Did he comment on having guns?
yeah bubbalo, the right to bear arms means...............getting to have guns. amazing isn't it??
You really aren't the sharpest tool in the shed are you?

The right to bear arms is to be allowed, under law, to have weapons.

Having weapons is being in possession of weapons.

For example, I have the right to dance, yet I choose not to.  And if we're going to get technical you are incorrect: the right to bear arms is the right to have weapons, not guns.
No actually, you are are just trying to be a little smart ass.As usual. For the context of this discussion we are talking about guns. and you know it.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6844

lowing wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

If you could have only one, which one would you choose?

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
They are both essential, impossible to answer, rationally that is.
Which is why Australians are dieing in droves.

Oh, wait...............

lowing wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

lowing wrote:


yeah bubbalo, the right to bear arms means...............getting to have guns. amazing isn't it??
You really aren't the sharpest tool in the shed are you?

The right to bear arms is to be allowed, under law, to have weapons.

Having weapons is being in possession of weapons.

For example, I have the right to dance, yet I choose not to.  And if we're going to get technical you are incorrect: the right to bear arms is the right to have weapons, not guns.
No actually, you are are just trying to be a little smart ass.As usual. For the context of this discussion we are talking about guns. and you know it.
K.  What about the rest of my post?

Last edited by Bubbalo (2006-11-10 21:03:23)

Not
Great success!
+216|6859|Chandler, AZ

IRONCHEF wrote:

Not wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Speech.  Arms is not under attack (though the arms lobby would disagree).  Speech, however, is under attack and a much more worthy fight to keep.
I'm not sure if you can quantify the worth of a basic right as higher than another. They're both extremely valuable, and in both regards one can be more important to certain individuals than others. Clearly your right to free speech is more important to you than your right to bear arms, but that certainly doesn't mean that people who have a different point of view are wrong for where they hold their values.
If you feel I have somehow said someone is wrong for holding a different point of view of their values, then you're welcome to write your senator and request that I be electrocuted, waterboarded, beaten, humiliated, and then imprisoned for life for expressing my opinion.  Oh wait, different congress now...you should write your representative and ask that I be reprimanded for my opinion.
I'm not sure why you'd jump to defense so quickly at that comment. Maybe it's due to the way many other people react to your posts that has you paranoid. Presuming somehow from what I said that I'd want you executed for disagreeing is not only ridiculous, but would contradict the point I made in my own post. Please read it again more carefully, and refer to your own post while considering what I said.

I quote "Speech, however, is under attack and a much more worthy fight to keep." - IRONCHEF

I was simply presenting an argument (Argument in the sense of my input on the subject, not as a confrontation) that nullifying others' beliefs by dismising them as unworthy is a vain, and close-minded approach to a debate over peoples' opinions. I even clearly stated that it was obvious that your right to free speech was more important to you, because I respect your opinion on the matter.

I've read some pretty foolish things about you being a psychopath liberal, and I assure you that I don't apply the prejudices of others to anyone I'm debating with. However, you may choose to sit down sometime and assess what people say about you after you jump at people with wild accusations that you acquire by blatantly misinterpreting what they say, forming your own meanings of other peoples' words, and fitting them to your cause, and omitting the parts that obviously contradict you. Then again, that sometimes appears to be the liberal way, so perhaps what "they" say is true?

It's just startling to me to see people accuse so many others of being close-minded while they sit ignorantly upon their pedastals, totally unwilling to accept or acknowledge the diversity inherent in humanity. *See pro-life vs. pro-choice fanatics.
Not
Great success!
+216|6859|Chandler, AZ

lowing wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

lowing wrote:

yeah bubbalo, the right to bear arms means...............getting to have guns. amazing isn't it??
You really aren't the sharpest tool in the shed are you?

The right to bear arms is to be allowed, under law, to have weapons.

Having weapons is being in possession of weapons.

For example, I have the right to dance, yet I choose not to.  And if we're going to get technical you are incorrect: the right to bear arms is the right to have weapons, not guns.
No actually, you are are just trying to be a little smart ass.As usual. For the context of this discussion we are talking about guns. and you know it.
I have to side with lowing on this, really. What's the point, exactly, of bringing in new arguments and splitting hairs over minute details when everyone already knows the context of the discussion? The right to bear arms refers to guns. I've never heard a debate about whether or not people should be allowed to carry swiss army knives. If you can't win an argument based on the relevant topics, you lose. Learn to accept that, or if at all possible, learn from it. Perhaps, God forbid, you're wrong about something and you'll just realize that. Unlikely, but humanity can hope.

Last edited by Not (2006-11-10 21:22:40)

Knifey McStabstab
Don't lock my topic!
+32|6791|Indiana
I don't think you guys realize that just because you are allowed to have a gun, doesn't mean you are allowed to shoot someone.
Not
Great success!
+216|6859|Chandler, AZ

Knifey McStabstab wrote:

I don't think you guys realize that just because you are allowed to have a gun, doesn't mean you are allowed to shoot someone.
Excellent comment. It's the right to have them, should the need arise, which is why some of us are arguing a case for it here. I don't believe that everyone needs to own a gun so we can live in the wild west. Allowing people to own guns is different than allowing people to kill each other. That's still definitely against the law.

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